I'm looking for a bit of career advice here as I'm starting to think about making a switch into architecture. I'm 28 years old, I have a B.S. in Math and 3.5 years experience in the A/E industry as a
CAD guy in consulting engineering. I kind of just stumbled into this field after college. I had originally planned to go to grad school and teach math but decided against that my senior year.
My first job after college was in Electrical Engineering and I started with the idea of moving up from CAD to design to engineer, but that wasn't for me. I was far more interested in the CAD software than the electrical systems, so I switched over to an MEP firm on the mechanical side to do 3D ductwork. I like it better than my old job but still, I find myself more excited about the software and the asthetics of the drawings than the equipment we're putting in.
We work a lot closer with architects here than my old job, and use Revit MEP, so I've gotten some exposure to the architecture end of projects is all about and even have my hands in their models, and that has me more excited than anything I've encountered in the industry thus far.
I'm thinking about making the switch for a number of reasons, notably that the part of the process I'm best at, 3D modeling, is more important for architecture than engineering, and more importantly, because I would like to be in a field where I could be more creative, and where more responsibility comes with more creative control. Whereas now I am in a position of basically liking my job as a draftsman and willing to take it to the next level as a designer, I think that if I were in architecture I would really want to take it as far as I could, so I could be more successful in architecture, and more importantly I would be happier with my career.
Anyway, that's my background, so you can hopefully understand a little bit about where I'm coming from. My question is basically how should I go about doing this? I'm willing to go back to school for a second bachelors if that's the best thing to do, and hopefully get a job part time doing architectural drafting while I am in school. But is there any other way? I'm posting this a few different places in hopes of getting a sense from some people in the industry whether a second college degree makes sense or whether I could get a job as a modeler/cad guy at an arch firm, take some classes at night, and work my way to being an architect from there. I'm just not sure if that happens in the architectural industry or not. I know it can with engineering (if you have your P.E. no one cares what your bachelors was in anymore). I'd be interested in hearing some people's opinions, experiences, etc to get a sense of what the best course of action would be. I'd appreciate any input. Thanks!
You should pursue your architectural education to start the path to becoming an architect.
As you have an undergraduate degree, you are eligible to pursue a Master of Architecture (3-4 years). There is no need to pursue an additional undergraduate degree. You will find it impossible to attend school part-time and work full-time. Academic programs are not designed for such a plan.
Some on here will tell you to go get a Phd in Architecture, others will tell you to get the 4+2 masters degree or the 4+3 masters. Or just start from scratch and do the 5 year program which I am certain a lot of your credits could bring that down to maybe 2-3 more years. Just guessing of course.
I think you should look up your states requirements or the states you'd like to work in.
Some states have a BEA (broadly experienced architect) which can take up to ten years of practicing under licensed architects and engineers. It will usually only give you the ability to practice architecture in that one state where you received that experience though.
Your situation mirrors mine a few years back. I graduated with a bachelors is in mechanical engineering (in 2003), and worked for a few years at an MEP firm, doing mostly 2D duct layouts (the firm didn't do any 3D, let alone BIM), and working towards my PE.
I was pretty dissatisfied with my job, so I decided to take a chance on architecture school. I only applied to one school (a few miles from my apartment), got accepted, and went for it.
I haven't looked back. Through school I was able to go on several study-abroad tours through Europe, and I took a year-long internship in Switzerland. Now, it's a few months after graduation, and I'm working in Rome. I'd like to think my skills have something to do with this, but the fact is that I couldn't have done any of it without the contacts I made in school. I'm deep in debt, of course, and I was making more money at the old engineering firm, but I am infinitely more satisfied with the work I'm doing now and the life that architecture school has allowed me to live.
While a PE would allow you to stamp drawings and actually build buildings (probably even more valuable in that regard than being a registered architect), if you go down that path you'll be missing the design education that a few years in a masters program will provide, and to me THAT is the reason to go to architecture school.
I think you'll find that your technical background will be a HUGE advantage in a M.Arch program, as you'll be able to bypass a large part of the learning curve, and dive right into design and theory.
Evan said: I think you'll find that your technical background will be a HUGE advantage in a M.Arch program, as you'll be able to bypass a large part of the learning curve, and dive right into design and theory.
I agree strongly with this. but I also caution you NOT to go into a lot a debt getting a Master's degree. (Evan, I'm curious if the school down the block from your apartment was a state school or private?) The salary you will make as an architect is not likely to be high, so try to minimize your debt coming out of school.
what lb said. i'd suggest a state school that has a masters for a non arch background. you also have a leg up because you could get ta jobs in the enegeering classes etc. don't spend too much money is my advice.
As you begin to research programs, I would not limit yourself to only public institutions as there is much more financial assistance at the graduate levels. Most programs have fellowships, assistantships, and scholarships. I suggest you research programs that fit you and go for it.
Thanks for all the posts guys, all good advice. I started looking at archcareers.org and naab.org this morning and got some good info on there as well. It sounds like finding a master's program would make the most sense, but the hard part will be finding one that will accept me with an unrelated degree. Do a lot of schools do this? I've only looked at one so far, Temple University near me in Philadelphia, and it says you need an arch degree to get into that.
A couple of you mentioned the amount of money I might expect to make. It sounds like generally speaking engineers make more than architects, but my mindset in coming up with this idea was basically that long term I can make more in an environment where I want to move up than I would in engineering, where I'll likely remain a cad guy with minimal design responsibilities. It certainly isn't the money that's motivating me to consider this, but money is still important. I make 48k as a cad guy and that's sufficient for my lifestyle. I'd certainly invest in the education for the benifit of my job satisfaction if I can come out of it with a job making about that in architecture. Is this realistic?
If you are limiting yourself to Philly, you are limited to UPenn for a 3-4 year Master of Architecture for those with an undergraduate degree in a discipline other than architecture. However, there are about 60-70 of these programs around the country.
Visit www.archschools.org for more details or obtain the book version of the website Guide to Architecture Programs from ACSA.
a march will still get you a job doing the production work. whether that's cad guy or model guy or what have you. the difference is you'll still make the same or less and owe more money.
Your math skills will be very useful in the world of parametric design and building simulations.
check out Cecil Balmond's use of math in design - he used to teach at Penn. Another route to explore is an MS in architecture. This might be the best match to your engineering background, especially if you want to explore sustainability, or other technical aspects of design.
Temple has a very strong co-op B Arch program for working folks. Don't take no for an answer, they should have a way for somebody like you to enroll. Also check out their engineering program
Philly U has an engaging BS degree that might give you what you want too.
Rutgers is a little far to commute (and who wants to be in Trenton?)
Get a MBA or a MRed or a combo MBA/MRed/MArch. There are many combo degrees out there.
That way, you might actually be able to afford to do what you want.
Also, you won't need to worry too much about debt for school if you pursue things this way.
I'd bet that your math skills would be tremendous asset in the business world, particularly with large projects.
That would give you the possibility of:
1. Making a good living
2. Controlling the process and outcome
3. Being able to, perhaps, live in something you design
Good luck. I sure wish I had been aware of these programs when I entered grad school.
To answer your questions about making more - don't kid yourself. I'll leave that advice there to others, but take a look around this forum and read up on the compensation for architects. Also, this economy has killed the profession, there are tons and tons and tons of highly qualified people out there willing to work for nothing to survive. That won't change for a long, long time.
Housing numbers today were particularly grim, worse than expected and, possibly, headed into a deeper plunge.
With your indepth CAD knowledge, your love for modeling and background in mathematics, you might consider free lancing or opening your own studio.
I have a degree in civil engineering and architecture and that's exactly what I did, just slowly started up my own studio. I utilized my combined skills and now design railway stations including track systems.
Few engineers can design stations and few architects can engineer track systems but I found a niche doing both.
The point is you have options others don't because of your education - be it from the classroom or job related.
With a slow economy, it's always a good idea to be versatile!
1. since u have an undergrad degree, u can apply for 3-3.5 year master program. most grad program do not require you to have an undergrad degree in architecture to apply. my MArch program had people with undergrad degrees in chemistry, philosophy, traffic engineer, even a couple from law students. my alma mater, Upenn had a fantastic program, and the summer travel programs were the bomb!
2. the arch program u select should be accredited if you want to eventually be an licensed architect. this is perhaps most critical, you do not want to spend all the money and not be able to take the exams.
3. with ur engineering background, if your interest is in 3d & design perhaps becoming a structural engineer can be considered. of all the consultants i have dealt with, i have had the closest working relationship with structural engineers. if you become a talented structural engineer, trust me, most architect will be after u...its like finding a good mechanic or doctor. ur involvement/influence on the design a project would likely be much greater then other types of engineers because u make sure our buildings stand up! besides the better compensation, if u are willing to deal with very complex projects i am sure u'll meet the challenges u seek.
Nov 18, 09 11:40 pm ·
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looking for some advice on how to move into architecture
I'm looking for a bit of career advice here as I'm starting to think about making a switch into architecture. I'm 28 years old, I have a B.S. in Math and 3.5 years experience in the A/E industry as a
CAD guy in consulting engineering. I kind of just stumbled into this field after college. I had originally planned to go to grad school and teach math but decided against that my senior year.
My first job after college was in Electrical Engineering and I started with the idea of moving up from CAD to design to engineer, but that wasn't for me. I was far more interested in the CAD software than the electrical systems, so I switched over to an MEP firm on the mechanical side to do 3D ductwork. I like it better than my old job but still, I find myself more excited about the software and the asthetics of the drawings than the equipment we're putting in.
We work a lot closer with architects here than my old job, and use Revit MEP, so I've gotten some exposure to the architecture end of projects is all about and even have my hands in their models, and that has me more excited than anything I've encountered in the industry thus far.
I'm thinking about making the switch for a number of reasons, notably that the part of the process I'm best at, 3D modeling, is more important for architecture than engineering, and more importantly, because I would like to be in a field where I could be more creative, and where more responsibility comes with more creative control. Whereas now I am in a position of basically liking my job as a draftsman and willing to take it to the next level as a designer, I think that if I were in architecture I would really want to take it as far as I could, so I could be more successful in architecture, and more importantly I would be happier with my career.
Anyway, that's my background, so you can hopefully understand a little bit about where I'm coming from. My question is basically how should I go about doing this? I'm willing to go back to school for a second bachelors if that's the best thing to do, and hopefully get a job part time doing architectural drafting while I am in school. But is there any other way? I'm posting this a few different places in hopes of getting a sense from some people in the industry whether a second college degree makes sense or whether I could get a job as a modeler/cad guy at an arch firm, take some classes at night, and work my way to being an architect from there. I'm just not sure if that happens in the architectural industry or not. I know it can with engineering (if you have your P.E. no one cares what your bachelors was in anymore). I'd be interested in hearing some people's opinions, experiences, etc to get a sense of what the best course of action would be. I'd appreciate any input. Thanks!
You should pursue your architectural education to start the path to becoming an architect.
As you have an undergraduate degree, you are eligible to pursue a Master of Architecture (3-4 years). There is no need to pursue an additional undergraduate degree. You will find it impossible to attend school part-time and work full-time. Academic programs are not designed for such a plan.
I suggest you review the following resources:
http://www.archcareers.org
http://archcareers.blogspot.com/
Becoming an Architect, 2nd Edition (available from Amazon.com)
http://www.naab.org (list of accredited programs
Because you will need to submit a portfolio, I suggest you take a freehand drawing course at an area community college.
Some on here will tell you to go get a Phd in Architecture, others will tell you to get the 4+2 masters degree or the 4+3 masters. Or just start from scratch and do the 5 year program which I am certain a lot of your credits could bring that down to maybe 2-3 more years. Just guessing of course.
I think you should look up your states requirements or the states you'd like to work in.
Some states have a BEA (broadly experienced architect) which can take up to ten years of practicing under licensed architects and engineers. It will usually only give you the ability to practice architecture in that one state where you received that experience though.
Your situation mirrors mine a few years back. I graduated with a bachelors is in mechanical engineering (in 2003), and worked for a few years at an MEP firm, doing mostly 2D duct layouts (the firm didn't do any 3D, let alone BIM), and working towards my PE.
I was pretty dissatisfied with my job, so I decided to take a chance on architecture school. I only applied to one school (a few miles from my apartment), got accepted, and went for it.
I haven't looked back. Through school I was able to go on several study-abroad tours through Europe, and I took a year-long internship in Switzerland. Now, it's a few months after graduation, and I'm working in Rome. I'd like to think my skills have something to do with this, but the fact is that I couldn't have done any of it without the contacts I made in school. I'm deep in debt, of course, and I was making more money at the old engineering firm, but I am infinitely more satisfied with the work I'm doing now and the life that architecture school has allowed me to live.
While a PE would allow you to stamp drawings and actually build buildings (probably even more valuable in that regard than being a registered architect), if you go down that path you'll be missing the design education that a few years in a masters program will provide, and to me THAT is the reason to go to architecture school.
I think you'll find that your technical background will be a HUGE advantage in a M.Arch program, as you'll be able to bypass a large part of the learning curve, and dive right into design and theory.
At least that's how it worked for me...
Evan said: I think you'll find that your technical background will be a HUGE advantage in a M.Arch program, as you'll be able to bypass a large part of the learning curve, and dive right into design and theory.
I agree strongly with this. but I also caution you NOT to go into a lot a debt getting a Master's degree. (Evan, I'm curious if the school down the block from your apartment was a state school or private?) The salary you will make as an architect is not likely to be high, so try to minimize your debt coming out of school.
what lb said. i'd suggest a state school that has a masters for a non arch background. you also have a leg up because you could get ta jobs in the enegeering classes etc. don't spend too much money is my advice.
As you begin to research programs, I would not limit yourself to only public institutions as there is much more financial assistance at the graduate levels. Most programs have fellowships, assistantships, and scholarships. I suggest you research programs that fit you and go for it.
Ask lots of questions. Again, www.naab.org has a list of programs by degree type. Another is www.archschools.org
Best.
Thanks for all the posts guys, all good advice. I started looking at archcareers.org and naab.org this morning and got some good info on there as well. It sounds like finding a master's program would make the most sense, but the hard part will be finding one that will accept me with an unrelated degree. Do a lot of schools do this? I've only looked at one so far, Temple University near me in Philadelphia, and it says you need an arch degree to get into that.
A couple of you mentioned the amount of money I might expect to make. It sounds like generally speaking engineers make more than architects, but my mindset in coming up with this idea was basically that long term I can make more in an environment where I want to move up than I would in engineering, where I'll likely remain a cad guy with minimal design responsibilities. It certainly isn't the money that's motivating me to consider this, but money is still important. I make 48k as a cad guy and that's sufficient for my lifestyle. I'd certainly invest in the education for the benifit of my job satisfaction if I can come out of it with a job making about that in architecture. Is this realistic?
If you are limiting yourself to Philly, you are limited to UPenn for a 3-4 year Master of Architecture for those with an undergraduate degree in a discipline other than architecture. However, there are about 60-70 of these programs around the country.
Visit www.archschools.org for more details or obtain the book version of the website Guide to Architecture Programs from ACSA.
Thanks!
a march will still get you a job doing the production work. whether that's cad guy or model guy or what have you. the difference is you'll still make the same or less and owe more money.
Your math skills will be very useful in the world of parametric design and building simulations.
check out Cecil Balmond's use of math in design - he used to teach at Penn. Another route to explore is an MS in architecture. This might be the best match to your engineering background, especially if you want to explore sustainability, or other technical aspects of design.
Temple has a very strong co-op B Arch program for working folks. Don't take no for an answer, they should have a way for somebody like you to enroll. Also check out their engineering program
Philly U has an engaging BS degree that might give you what you want too.
Rutgers is a little far to commute (and who wants to be in Trenton?)
good luck!
Get a MBA or a MRed or a combo MBA/MRed/MArch. There are many combo degrees out there.
That way, you might actually be able to afford to do what you want.
Also, you won't need to worry too much about debt for school if you pursue things this way.
I'd bet that your math skills would be tremendous asset in the business world, particularly with large projects.
That would give you the possibility of:
1. Making a good living
2. Controlling the process and outcome
3. Being able to, perhaps, live in something you design
Good luck. I sure wish I had been aware of these programs when I entered grad school.
To answer your questions about making more - don't kid yourself. I'll leave that advice there to others, but take a look around this forum and read up on the compensation for architects. Also, this economy has killed the profession, there are tons and tons and tons of highly qualified people out there willing to work for nothing to survive. That won't change for a long, long time.
Housing numbers today were particularly grim, worse than expected and, possibly, headed into a deeper plunge.
timavo81,
With your indepth CAD knowledge, your love for modeling and background in mathematics, you might consider free lancing or opening your own studio.
I have a degree in civil engineering and architecture and that's exactly what I did, just slowly started up my own studio. I utilized my combined skills and now design railway stations including track systems.
Few engineers can design stations and few architects can engineer track systems but I found a niche doing both.
The point is you have options others don't because of your education - be it from the classroom or job related.
With a slow economy, it's always a good idea to be versatile!
Cheers!
timavo81
i would recommenced the following:
1. since u have an undergrad degree, u can apply for 3-3.5 year master program. most grad program do not require you to have an undergrad degree in architecture to apply. my MArch program had people with undergrad degrees in chemistry, philosophy, traffic engineer, even a couple from law students. my alma mater, Upenn had a fantastic program, and the summer travel programs were the bomb!
2. the arch program u select should be accredited if you want to eventually be an licensed architect. this is perhaps most critical, you do not want to spend all the money and not be able to take the exams.
3. with ur engineering background, if your interest is in 3d & design perhaps becoming a structural engineer can be considered. of all the consultants i have dealt with, i have had the closest working relationship with structural engineers. if you become a talented structural engineer, trust me, most architect will be after u...its like finding a good mechanic or doctor. ur involvement/influence on the design a project would likely be much greater then other types of engineers because u make sure our buildings stand up! besides the better compensation, if u are willing to deal with very complex projects i am sure u'll meet the challenges u seek.
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