Tea Party, noun A political group founded by Washington insiders (former House Speaker Dick Armey) and funded by tax-dodging corporate industrialists (the Koch brothers) that represents itself as a grass-routes movement.

pwp is just as often the unspoken economic reality of dealing with small firms as it is an explicit contractual term. hard knocks. sux.

Miles, I thought you were just eating popcorn?...

An accurate definiton is useful for keeping things straight.

Xenaxis: "stone believes it's ok to be unfair to people." -- uh, where did I say that? What I did say is that there's some likelihood that Anob and his 'employer' entered into an agreement with certain terms and conditions associated with Anob's role as a "consultant". If you think that's about being 'unfair' then, when you have your own firm someday and you hire expensive engineering consultants to assist you, I'm sure you will dip into your own pocket to disburse thousands and thousands of dollars to those consultants months before your client actually pays you. 

For the record, I also noted that Anob's situation should be a W2 arrangement, in which case this would less likely be a problem.

SITC: "Stone is clearly an instrument of the Tea Party." -- wtf ?  Get a grip, kid.

"Other side of the story? I really like that one, I should try using that some time, I'm sure it'll get me far. What I like most about that notion is that it presumes there is a rational explanation, whereby, I, the aggrieved party would feel some empathy, let the person cry on my shoulder, and have me consoling them. Perfect."

Uh, no.  I'm not advising Anob on how to regard the other party, as you seem to think.  I'm stating criticism toward those posting here who are too comfortable proceeding with incomplete information.  

SITC: "Stone is clearly an instrument of the Tea Party." -- wtf ?  Get a grip, kid.

Ya read me wrong.  Full sarcasm intended.  

"...what sort of person believes anob isn't worth paying?"

That is by far my favorite statement in the thread.  

That is by far my favorite statement in the thread.

then elaborate please.  tell me why you think anob is not worth paying.  what sort of economic theory are you applying that suggests anob shouldn't be paid for the work he did?  is this some sort of new interpretation of ayn rand?  am i being too insensitive to the entrepreneur class, who might sometimes be such failures that they can't manage their business or their personal finances?  do we really need people like anob to bail out those failures?  why not ask them to pay their obligations?  why not let them fail?

we have information.  it has been given that 10 days ago anob was to receive a fee for work he performed.  said fee was not paid.  if he had agreed to a variable date of payment, the 10 days wouldn't have been stated.  you're pretending that it's more complicated than that.  i think anob should be paid what he's entitled to for the work he did.  i think it's rude for his employer/client to not pay him for the services he provided.  that's all based on the information given.  what else do you need to know?

i've had late paychecks.  at some point long ago my employer had trouble with their payroll company that caused delays, at which time they took responsibility, fixed the problem, and offered to pay me out of their own pocket if i needed until it was resolved.  i survived the recession with continuous employment, despite the furloughs that were common.  that wasn't that long ago.  i know shit happens.  there is a difference between an employer who takes responsibility for themselves and their companies and someone asking on internet forum if it's normal to not be paid for over a week.  it's not normal.

so what more really needs to be explained to you saint?  why do you want to appear sympathetic to someone who doesn't pay their staff?  is it an aspiration for you to be such a failure that you personally can't take responsibility for your obligations?  seriously, it doesn't make sense to me, and dismissive comments don't help.  from my perspective, dismissing the obvious and pretending there is something else happening just makes you look more like a failure, though i imagine there is something else rattling around in your head.  i would certainly hope failure is not your aspiration, but then if you are a tea party patriot, who elects congressmen to fail at passing a budget and then fail at keeping the government operational, failure may be your goal.

I find it interesting that Anob has stopped posting in this thread - even though many of us here are speculating about what the true, and complete, facts are in this situation.

I mean - he comes here looking for advice, stirs the pot, then disappears.

I wonder what that silence really means.

Curtkram -- I think you said your piece several times now.  You disagree with me.  I got it.

Hi everyone,

To those who remember this heated conversation I  come back with a conclusion. With the intention of  already quitting and knowing my "boss's" true intentions I presented him with a sweet offer that any business owner that needs real consultants would not pass up. I offered 10% for early payments, I offered a set amount for every 2 weeks. So if i work 60 hrs a week the pay will be set (this is less than what I get paid hourly). I wanted to be reimbursed for traveling to and from his office everyday. No reimbursement for traveling  to job sites.  At the end we decided to part ways. Unemployed but happy. 

In your opinion guys did I do something wrong? Fellow consultants/contractors/temps. and small business please chime in with your opinions and thoughts.

Thanks 

da devil is in the details, you should have requested milage from  office to project sites.  This  is a reimbursable from the client.  So no money out of his pocket.  Better luck next time.

I think its better to charge to the office because I believe if I am designing a project site visits should already be expected. If i have my own office and i need to visit the site that would be included in the contract. But if I am required to stop by the office then go to the site that would make me a employee of his company and also inefficient. 

Not getting paid is the best reason of all to part ways.

Anob,

You are providing a service to an Architect as a Consultant.  You therefore are visiting the site on his behalf. He is going to be billing the Client for said visit no matter who travels from his office to the site (as you are his representative).  Therefore it  only makes sense you bill him for the time from the office to the site.

If you are a Professional Consultant and you wanted to bill you  mileage  from your office to my office I would laugh.  It should be all inclusive in your consulting fee.  You really think Structural Engineers, Mechanical Engineers, Roofing Consultants ect  bill for their milage from there office to  the Clients office.

Dandy,

Didn't matter if I charged from his office to the job site because 99% his projects were walking distance from his office. Just wanted to point out that a travel reimbursement should have been established. He did not even try to renegotiating any part of the contract i presented.He was afraid of having a professional contract with a consultant. Would a engineer work without a contract? Again I also reduced how much I was getting paid and offered 10% discount for early payments. Doesn't matter if he wanted to pay any reimbursements or not. The idea was to create something professional in a unprofessional setting..

Structural engineers would not charge for site visits but they would charge if they are forced to visit the architect's office everyday and work his/her hours. Have you ever have a structural engineer consultant work next you in the same office space?

ski masks and baseball bats - highly effective

So your a registered Architect by the State of which where you work.  You are working for another Architect as an Architectural Consultant?  So what  the heck are you doing?  What kind of consulting are you providing?  What is your input into the project?  Do you have any idea who his client is or  is it hidden under a mask of darkness?    Thinking you might really want to figure out if you  a cad monkey consultant, or a master cad monkey consultant in hiding.   The guy doesn't want you any where near a client.  I have heard of that before, usually with impish interns who put their feet in mouth and walk around the room, with not much of a picture of what is going on in a meeting.  The guy think they are going to think less of him for hiring a, "consultant."  Such as someone who has done a shit load of  prisons. Someone who knows there way around a difficult task.  Like there is a guy out there who Consults on all of the Apple Store  Curtain Wall Systems.  He knows how to make it work and make it look good.  Now that is a Consultant.  Someone stepping in and running a run of the mill job well  he is an employee with out  bennies... not really a consultant.

Oh ya Consultants get fired all the time when they are not performing, with or without  mileage to and from the office.   Oh btw what draggs you into the office everyday?  You project hit a few stumbling blocks which can't be overcome over a phone conversation, pdf files, and sketches.
?

In my career (25 years) I've personally never worked as or hired a consultant under a contract that stipulated "paid when paid".  It sounds like maybe it's more common than I know from my own experience, but IMO it's not a good way to run a business.

My most common experience as an architect hiring consultants and as an architect writing a contract with a client is 30 days, 1% penalty per month after 30 days.  Sometimes net 60 days.

Also this may be irrelevant but if you are a consultant you can claim your travel costs (for site visits, for example) as business expenses for your taxes.  But you can't submit them for reimbursement AND claim them as business cost.

This was my first attempt to write a contract. I just wanted to have a contract to make things clear in the office. Donna you said this earlier, they treated me like an employee but paid as a consultant. At first this was fine but my checks started coming in late and I was still coming in to the office. I took the job to learn and get experience and obtain IDP credits. To answer some of your questions, I am not a professional consultant and do not have my license yet. With my current experience and skill level  in architecture I would be considered a junior architect. 

"Pay when paid" is a fundamental concept in firms of any significant size, especially when significant portions of the work are subcontracted to engineering consultants -- which consultants typically do little, if any, of the marketing required to actually secure the contracts in question. 

As we all know, design firms have little real control over when we get paid for our work. Despite contract language to the contrary, owners tend to cut checks when it suits them. Simply put, it is economically unsustainable for an architectural firm to fund engineering consultant invoices 'out of pocket' and then wait - often for months - for payment by the client. 

file, I get that, but isn't that what "operating capital" is for? To pay out what you owe when its owed? So then your operating capital rises and falls but you always have enough to cover your bills, and if you run really short you use your business line of credit to cover your expenses until payment comes in? Or do I live in dreamland?

Donna - I won't charge you with living in a dreamland. I will say only that the magnitude of the dollars involved -- especially on a large project -- make what you suggest generally impractical.

The operating capital and LOC available to the average architectural firm typically are insufficient to cover BOTH the architect's overhead (rent, utilities, staff payroll and benefits, etc.) AND the unfunded invoices of their engineering consultants. "Pay when paid" generally assumes that all members of the design team cover their own office and payroll expenses until such time as the client pays the invoice.

I am a little surprised that so many here seem to feel consultants - which represent a very significant proportion of most projects' gross fee - should be wholly insulated from the risk of slow paying (or non-paying) clients. Why should the architect take all the economic risk? 

Oh right ... it's 'cause we make so much profit on every project!

File -- what you describe has been my experience as well.  Few consultants on design teams would expect otherwise.  

This reality contrasts with the OP's original complaints regarding getting paid 10 days "late". 

End of Story.  Working for IDP Credit...Most States will not allow a Architecture Firm to hire someone as a consultant if they are not registered.  Actually most  states will  go after the employer if they are making you work more than 40 hours a week without paying overtime.

I think you have been working for a scumbag!  Was it he who wanted you to work as a consultant?  If so check with your state Department of Consumer Protection.  If he is in the wrong they will  rip him  a new  hole one so he has another place to pee.

I have seen this practice and deplore it because it creates an unbalanced playing field. These kind of Architects are low balling the profession in order to have a financial gain. When they will not bring on a person as an employee they are  not paying  a portion of your taxes, no health insurance, no  vacation, no workers compensation.  So go  figure  where is all that money going but to their pocket.   The intern on the other had  can they  qualify for IDP Credit acting as a Consultant?  I'm not sure where the NCARB  stands on this one, so you better do your checking.

If the guy is an AIA Member it makes him even more of a smuck!

No had forced the OP to work at that office.  I get the feeling the OP was not clear on the details of the 1099 / contract arrangement.  Seemed to be looking for that weekly paycheck, etc.  Again, this seemed to have started not over non-payment, but 10 days "late".

Snook --  "most States will not allow a Architecture Firm to hire someone as a consultant if they are not registered."     Is that true?  It's not it the state I work in.    Where it is legal, and when the firm is operating within the law, and when individuals are willing to work as 1099's, there is no arguable issue.  Not sure I get your point -- are you hoping to legislate your value for the sake of "fairness" ?     

Saint,

I worked in an office where there was a big push to get a project out the door before the end of the Calender year. It involved some twenty buildings and Code Upgrades on a University Campus.  We  were all lead to believe we would be  payed at our regular rate for anything above 40 hours and  we would  get   equal time off.  So we all slaved away over the Christmas Holidays including Christmas Eve.  The project made it out the door on time  The following  Summer I took a couple of weeks of time  I had built up during the end of the year race to be done.  No one questioned it.   Shortly after returning to the job,  some senior positions shifted around.  We were all called in for a community review and the senior partner dropped the bomb.  No time off  paid unless it was  vacation time.  Then we had our personal evaluations where the same boss told me there were no raises in the near future as the company was in a financial tight spot.  I looked at  him, and said well it is a good thing I have been contemplating going back to University.    He gave me his best  Sicilian Italian hit mob look he could muster.  A couple weeks later I was out the door due to lack of work.  One of the other individuals (woman), saw what was going on and went immediately to the State  Department of Labor, and ended up getting  financial  gain for everyone who worked on the end of the year project.

Oh ya and when I  was kicked out the door I did get my full vacation pay.

I  was on the street for one day  before I was gainfully employed in another architecture firm mostly made up of individuals who had worked in  for the firm where I had been let go of.

Saint,  Yes I do believe in fairness,  I believe in people honoring what they say,  I think pocketing profits from the work of and intern is  absolutely wrong.

What intern?  

The OP doesn't even refer to it as internship, but rather as "consultants/contractors/temps. and small business"