I am wondering how much an office/firm expects a new graduate to know straight out of school? Especially in this economy...
Most firms know that the universities are not preparing graduates for the realities of the working world. They know you need training, so I wouldn't worry too much about your skills per se.
The problem is that you'll be competing for jobs with all those that have been laid off in the past year. Not sure what to tell you there.
One thing that you might want to consider looking into is finding out which offices in your area support the University through donations, etc. Also, your alumni association should be able to help you to find offices that are run by your local alumni. Many times theses offices are great places to go as a newbie since they have a stronger tie with the University and more willing to work with you.
I was in a similar position when I finished Undergrad. I didn't know anything about construction or building, and actually probably worse off since I also had never used AutoCAD or any 3D modeling programs. My scholarship, though, was sponsored by a local firm that was very active in supporting the University. What started out as an informal meeting to get advice about finding a job in the industry turned into into an interview, meeting the principals and getting a job (resulting in a crash course in AutoCAD that weekend). Many of my classmates got jobs at the same firm since they believed so much in giving us newbies a chance.
Ironically - if irony is what you can call it - I graduated with my Bachelor's Degree in Architecture in 2002. Which is to say that, when we were graduating then, we thought we had it bad as well. It took me 4 months to find a (crappy) job that year. Little did I know I would be doing this again 7 years later!
Somewhat off-topic, but I received an e-mail recently about donating to my Alma Mater for seniors that can not graduate because they can't afford to pay - especially due to the recent economic times.
While a great effort, it is somewhat insensitive to me as it hasn't been that long since I've graduated and I still have loans that I have to pay off. And who hasn't been affected by the economy?
Back to topic - Good luck with everyone graduating soon. Even though you guys are technically my competition and some of you must be more qualified than me.
Had my final thesis review today, moving to NYC in 3 weeks....need to find a job asap!!! Doesn't really feel like a relief graduating with the lack of a JOB, but eh, none the less it feels nice to have an M.Arch!
Option #1 - go back and get an MBA
Option #2 - start a business, freelance, contract, etc.
Option #3 - find a job in a related field, doing graphics, 3D, whatever
Overhead and expenses - the key to survival is minimizing your expenses. Why live in Manhattan or San Fran when there are tons of growing cities that hare half the cost? Do you need a car? Etc., etc.
Take this as an opportunity to think outside of the box, look for new/different opportunities. There will be more and more arch grads looking outside of the profession.
Personally, I would go for Option #1 to open tons of possibilities for the future (regardless if you want to be the business guy, you need to have business skills to excel).
I find it really hard in architecture to keep the resume to 1 page, unless your making the font size tiny. By the time you list position, responsibilities, type of projects worked on and then highlight a project with a little more detail to explain specific skill sets, with a few jobs that already fills a page. Personally I think a longer more descriptive resume gives the office a much better picture of what you are capable of doing than editing down so much to meet the 1 page rule.
Also, I think it comes down to formatting as well. Cramming everything together to fit on 1 page is far less effective than a 2 page resume where everything is well spaced and legible. But that's just my 2 cents.
I would suggest that one-page resumes are possible no matter how much experience you might have. In a previous position, I assisted a student who had over 25 years of experience in another discipline and 4-5 page resume condense it to one-page.
One rule of thumb is one page for every 12-15 years of experience. But with the use of the English language, write more impactful statements about your education and experience. Put yourself in the chair of the employer -- What is he/she looking for?
Also, given that networking is 90% of the game, do not let your resume be the first impression. Somehow be in touch with the hiring manager/firm via in person or phone and follow-up with a resume. In this way, you can target it knowing what they are seeking for.
Thanks for the consultant update, Emily! This HR expert... has she been associated with architecture hiring, or HR in general? I only ask because it seems like general advice. It's good to have input anyway though. If anything it reinforces what has already been talked about on this thread about networking....
As for the resume - personally, i'm not cutting mine down to one page. I took a class and the professor talked about a study that was done by some university that made up applicants with the same qualifications and sent them to HR review, half w/ 1page, half w/ 2 page resumes. The 2-page ones were always deemed as "better candidates, but with the wish that their resume was 1 page" it sounds rediculous, but the point is that even though everyone requests 1-page resumes, the 2-page ones make a better impression, provided their not just filler.
I like trace's advice best and agree 100%. For you Emily (not all recent grads) I'd try #2 no matter what. It takes landing that first job and seeing where it takes you.
Also, what can do in the journalism sector? Could you get a job as a reporter/investigator? A greenwashing sleuth?
as someone who's been reading tons of resumes every week for many, many years, I find the debate about number of resume pages to be specious.
what's REALLY important is how well you organize the information and how clearly you represent your credentials. sometimes short resumes are too long ... sometimes long resumes are too short.
as an employer, what I want to be able to do is quickly find out the basics of your background and then, if I find your basic credentials to be interesting, drill down to more detail. stage three -- if there is a stage three -- is to invite you in for an interview, which is where I really learn what I need to know about you.
I rarely, if ever, find a resume that lacks the essential information I want to read -- I frequently encounter a) resumes that contain way too much information (i.e. - too many words used to convey a simple thought) and b) resumes that make the information I do want to read difficult to find.
Keep it as simple as possible and only add those words that include essential information about your background. The candidate always is going to think his/her fabulous credentials and accomplishments warrant more words and real estate than the employer deems necessary. Mies was right.
The resume is not meant to be a substitute for an interview -- its only purpose is to get you to the interview.
bravo....she is actually an HR person who has been working with architecture firms for over 17 years. She said that in the last 4 years alone, she reviewed over 3000 resumes and hired over 300 people for architecture firms.
She also mentioned that one of the reasons for a one-page resume is because most people are reading resumes on their PDAs now. I don't know if I believe that "most people" do this, but you can't deny the fact that employers are dealing with A LOT of resumes at this point, so maybe the less information they have to deal with, the better. She mentioned that it was a good idea to have a master resume and then a one-page version that you tailored to each job or firm that you applied for. This makes sense to me.
Thanks, comb, for your input!
Strawbeary, that's not a bad idea. I just have no idea how to find those types of jobs...
emily -- I repeat -- serious people making a serious effort to fill a vacancy aren't going to get hung up on the length of the resume -- we're much more concerned with how the information is organized and whether the information we need is easy to find.
technically, I'm an "HR person" and yes, I am bombarded with a lot of unsolicited resumes these days. But, I read every one and I respond to every one. I know how to scan them quickly and only invest time in those that convey some skill or capability of current importance to our firm.
Oh? You want to be an officer? I try to push enlisted as much as I can.
I would imagine that if 70% of our population was not qualified to become enlisted then the percentage probably just got higher for officer material. Even though a degree is required for becomming an officer candidate, it does not mean that you just became qualifed to join. Drugs (recreational or prescription), mental issues, weight, crimes, so on and so forth knock out about 70% of American youth. Which is why about 70% of our population is unable to join the enlisted ranks in the first place.
And now that I've got you in my clutches, Comb, let me ask your opinion of LinkedIn.com. I belong there, rather than Facebook, and have gotten in touch with some folks that I otherwise might not have run across --colleague-wise, that is.
citizen: I'm a member of LinkedIn and I've encountered a few lost contacts around the country who found me there and asked me to link to their pages. I'm also a member of a few discussion groups there, that - at times - prove interesting. However, as a recruitment tool, I'm not sure I've found much use for it yet. But, perhaps I'm just clueless about the possibilities.
I guess my view of the recruitment process remains somewhat traditional ... we post a job ad when we have a need; interested candidates respond; we review their credentials; we invite a few in for interviews; we issue a job offer. Plus, there's always a certain number of resumes that come in over the transom, unsolicited. That process goes on in tandem with our personal networks -- which, so far, still rely on telephone conversations and seeing people we know at industry events or in other social settings. We also let our staff know when we hiring ... I'd say that perhaps 1 opening in 8 is filled by an individual introduced to us by a staff member.
well... still unemployed, but since i'm on the quarter system, i'm still in school for a week and a half. i had 4 firm visits last week. everyone seemed to think work was just around the corner... but still on a hiring freeze. i came away positive, actually.
and i was wondering about this linkdin business.... how well do you know someone before you add them? like, could i add these people i met with? that wouldn't be weird, right?
bravo -- speaking only for myself, I'd recommend that you be careful about adding someone you only know through an employment interview to your linkdin account -- I think I'd find that presumptuous if a candidate did that to me.
I graduated mid-may from the u of mn and I find this thread to be encouraging. I didn't have an extensive network built up in minneapolis so I decided to uproot and move across the country for personal reasons and to get into a bigger pond. There are definitely more opportunities here, but the market is a lot more saturated as well. While grad school is an appealing escape, I want to avoid the mondo-record-application-numbers of the 2008 round that are sure to present in fall 2009 as well. I am splitting my time looking for work at a firm and looking for something else in the mean time.
I think LinkedIn is great, but I would agree with the other remarks that I am not sure it's real strength lies in recruiting. I think it is most useful a robust, interactive Rolodex. Your references update their contact information at their leisure and you stay connected to old employers/professors/mentors etc.
I was just looking over old threads and came across this one. How's everybody doing out there? I have several friends that were laid off since I started this thread last spring :o(
How about the kiddos still in school? Are you guys trying to make alternate plans, or maybe not finish thesis so you can stay in school longer?!?
I was just looking over old threads and came across this one. How's everybody doing out there? I have several friends that were laid off since I started this thread last spring :o(
How about the kiddos still in school? Are you guys trying to make alternate plans, or maybe not finish thesis so you can stay in school longer?!?
This is probably the most optimistic thread about this crisis. I graduated in June '09 and I've had some pretty amazing luck, so here's my 2-euro-cents worth of advice:
1. Relocate.
After seeing quite a few '08 grads still on the hunt after a year of searching, I realized that Columbus, Ohio was probably not my best bet for employment. I'd already spent a year working abroad and enjoyed it immensely, so I started looking for jobs in the UK and Europe, where the financial crisis didn't seem so severe.
2. Use your connections / Focus.
I only sent out around 20 application packages, all to firms where I thought I would be a good fit, based on their work and what I could gather about their office culture. Roughly half of these were companies where I had some kind of tenuous connection, either through professors or former co-workers. A few of my classmates sent out resumes like clusterbombs, hoping one would hit, but I think my strategy worked because I focused my application, and tailored each cover letter to the place I was applying - not only by swapping names in the form letter, but by addressing the HR person by name (if possible), and by mentioning specific projects and explaining how I thought my student work compared.
In the end, I only got one offer, at a well-known firm in Rome where a good friend was currently working. To make it work I had to move, and I had to survive on a sub-minimum wage 'intern' stipend for three months before getting a raise. And then there's the visa issues...
But ultimately it worked - and here I am in Europe, with a gap-free resume and more international experience. So my advice would be be flexible. If you're young and single there's absolutely no reason to pass up job postings simply because they're halfway around the world.
^ I think the real reason you found work was not because you looked for work outside where you live or were willing to move. It was simply because you had a personal connection that gave you an in at the office. Jobs today are really only going to those that have an extensive network they can use to leverage themselves...it's not about talent, portfolio or skills.
That sounds like a very narrow view to me. If you had a connection with someone, but not the talent/portfolio/skills they needed, would they hire you? NO. Of course, between two people with roughly equal talent/portfolio/skills, who will they hire? The one they have the personal connection with. I'm not disputing that, but connection isn't a replacement for all those other things, it's yet another thing that makes a candidate the right fit for an office, just one part of the whole.
Possibly. I'm just pointing out that the previous post makes finding a job seem as simple as packing your bags and going to Europe when in fact there is a lot more to it and the fact of the matter is that without his connection in the European office, it's highly doubtful he/she would have gotten hired simply due to the EU restrictions on foreign workers.
dot dash, thanks for offering some criticism about evanc's post! it made me really angry that evanc (and others) still seem(s) to assume that you're doing something wrong if you don't have your dream job these days. really. we all know that you can be doing everything "right," like sending out good, targeted cover letters to firms that are a great fit for you and still not get hired, or even hear anything back.
and the entire "i had to survive on sub-minimum wage 'intern' stipend." ha! not all of us have that luxury. and yes, that IS a luxury. not to mention being "young and single"--some of us are less young and less single!
frankly, i'm really quite anxious for may 2010. yikes! part of me is afraid that once may passes (well, really this summer), that's it. i won't be getting a job in architecture, probably ever. sometimes i'm more optimistic but a lot of times i can't help thinking "there goes >100k in debt and 3 and a half years of incredibly hard work."
anyway, i relocated to chicago partially thinking there are not a whole lot people who attended my grad school, so that's at LEAST helping me stand out from the crowd. still hasn't gotten me a job, though!
Throw a gigantic graduation soiree and invite all your long, lost, wealthy relatives, neighbors, and cousin's cousins. You might get enough graduation money to hold you over for a while.
ACCEPT the fact that ANY JOB IN ANY field is hard to get. Now is the time to network, use all the connections you have, learn new programs, and refine your resume and portfolio.
Unless you're one of the lucky few, you'll most likely spend much of your day scanning job boards and tailoring cover letters to any ad you find.
*Be prepared to swallow your pride and work a manual labor job for minimum wage.
*Don't compare yourself to your friends who will most definitely find success in their respective fields. Doing this will just make drive you into depression.
I'd wish you all good luck, but you're now my competition ;)
I was made redundant in march 2009 (one year ago already yummm). Sent no more than 50 resumes to offices I was interested. In 4 continents. Not a single CV to any practice in Europe/US, since I didn't want to waste my time and get more depressed not receiving a single reply. I finally received about 5-7 replies to do an interview (which was not that bad in March 2009). No connections with anyone at any office.
Got a job in April and ever since doing x2 my British salary in a pretty cheap country. With a quite lavish lifestyle for what I did expect one year ago, I save per month more than my previous total salary.
From time to time I fear I will be made redudant since I'm really expensive when compared to local staff. However, being single, young and willing to relocate I am pretty sure I'd find a job sooner or later anywhere in the world. Whether that place is China, Brazil or India, I have no idea. But I am sure any of those three countries would be a great personal experience and a nice addition for my CV.
As for the visas... when you have an EU or US passport, you are a kind of VIP anywhere outside "the developed world".
^ um no. As a US citizen with a passport, I am still going to be withheld jobs in Europe over an EU citizen. Granted it's not impossible but it really requires a lot of effort on the part of the office with the visa, etc which equates more time and expense hiring a US person than someone in the EU. Trust me, if I could get a job in Berlin I would be packing my bags tomorrow and never looking back.
I'd also like to reiterate prairie school drop out's point about this idea of jetsetting around the world in the pursuit of employment is really a luxury very few people can afford. Consider yourself lucky you have the trust fund/family money/bank account that you have to pursue these opportunities.
I'm curious - what's stopping you from getting a job in Berlin? While offices would certainly rather hire locally, I don't think citizenship is ever a deciding factor. As an American, you're legally allowed to stay in the EU for 90 days on a tourist visa, which is plenty of time to start work (as an independent contractor or freelancer, of course) and convince your employer that you're worth the paperwork for a proper working visa.
As for the 'luxury' of globe-trotting to find jobs, don't assume too much. I lined up this job after a Skype interview, found a cheap flight and a cheap apartment, and scraped by for a month while I waited on that first paycheck. It's possible without a trust fund, and without a lot of savings, you just have to be smart about it, and be willing to take a risk.
How the soon-to-be graduating class might (or might not) impact the job market.
Most firms know that the universities are not preparing graduates for the realities of the working world. They know you need training, so I wouldn't worry too much about your skills per se.
The problem is that you'll be competing for jobs with all those that have been laid off in the past year. Not sure what to tell you there.
One thing that you might want to consider looking into is finding out which offices in your area support the University through donations, etc. Also, your alumni association should be able to help you to find offices that are run by your local alumni. Many times theses offices are great places to go as a newbie since they have a stronger tie with the University and more willing to work with you.
I was in a similar position when I finished Undergrad. I didn't know anything about construction or building, and actually probably worse off since I also had never used AutoCAD or any 3D modeling programs. My scholarship, though, was sponsored by a local firm that was very active in supporting the University. What started out as an informal meeting to get advice about finding a job in the industry turned into into an interview, meeting the principals and getting a job (resulting in a crash course in AutoCAD that weekend). Many of my classmates got jobs at the same firm since they believed so much in giving us newbies a chance.
great lake and Alexi, welcome!
tinydancer, nice to see you again!
Ironically - if irony is what you can call it - I graduated with my Bachelor's Degree in Architecture in 2002. Which is to say that, when we were graduating then, we thought we had it bad as well. It took me 4 months to find a (crappy) job that year. Little did I know I would be doing this again 7 years later!
Somewhat off-topic, but I received an e-mail recently about donating to my Alma Mater for seniors that can not graduate because they can't afford to pay - especially due to the recent economic times.
While a great effort, it is somewhat insensitive to me as it hasn't been that long since I've graduated and I still have loans that I have to pay off. And who hasn't been affected by the economy?
Back to topic - Good luck with everyone graduating soon. Even though you guys are technically my competition and some of you must be more qualified than me.
alexi - you story made for a great end to a crappy day. congrats.
Had my final thesis review today, moving to NYC in 3 weeks....need to find a job asap!!! Doesn't really feel like a relief graduating with the lack of a JOB, but eh, none the less it feels nice to have an M.Arch!
em, you came out safe first time around right? i know this one is harder, but, why dont you think of it this way,, safe once, safe twice
Option #1 - go back and get an MBA
Option #2 - start a business, freelance, contract, etc.
Option #3 - find a job in a related field, doing graphics, 3D, whatever
Overhead and expenses - the key to survival is minimizing your expenses. Why live in Manhattan or San Fran when there are tons of growing cities that hare half the cost? Do you need a car? Etc., etc.
Take this as an opportunity to think outside of the box, look for new/different opportunities. There will be more and more arch grads looking outside of the profession.
Personally, I would go for Option #1 to open tons of possibilities for the future (regardless if you want to be the business guy, you need to have business skills to excel).
Happy to be back Emily! So are you staying in LA or moving back to Cincy or where?
tinydancer....the jury is out right now. All I know is that I am not moving back to Cincy any time soon. Not on purpose anyway...
Hey guys....attended a luncheon today at school and if you're interested, I just blogged about what I learned: tips for job hunting from professional recruiter and HR consultant Kristi Enigl.
Hope this helps.
I find it really hard in architecture to keep the resume to 1 page, unless your making the font size tiny. By the time you list position, responsibilities, type of projects worked on and then highlight a project with a little more detail to explain specific skill sets, with a few jobs that already fills a page. Personally I think a longer more descriptive resume gives the office a much better picture of what you are capable of doing than editing down so much to meet the 1 page rule.
Also, I think it comes down to formatting as well. Cramming everything together to fit on 1 page is far less effective than a 2 page resume where everything is well spaced and legible. But that's just my 2 cents.
I would suggest that one-page resumes are possible no matter how much experience you might have. In a previous position, I assisted a student who had over 25 years of experience in another discipline and 4-5 page resume condense it to one-page.
One rule of thumb is one page for every 12-15 years of experience. But with the use of the English language, write more impactful statements about your education and experience. Put yourself in the chair of the employer -- What is he/she looking for?
Also, given that networking is 90% of the game, do not let your resume be the first impression. Somehow be in touch with the hiring manager/firm via in person or phone and follow-up with a resume. In this way, you can target it knowing what they are seeking for.
Dr. Architecture
Thanks for the consultant update, Emily! This HR expert... has she been associated with architecture hiring, or HR in general? I only ask because it seems like general advice. It's good to have input anyway though. If anything it reinforces what has already been talked about on this thread about networking....
As for the resume - personally, i'm not cutting mine down to one page. I took a class and the professor talked about a study that was done by some university that made up applicants with the same qualifications and sent them to HR review, half w/ 1page, half w/ 2 page resumes. The 2-page ones were always deemed as "better candidates, but with the wish that their resume was 1 page" it sounds rediculous, but the point is that even though everyone requests 1-page resumes, the 2-page ones make a better impression, provided their not just filler.
I like trace's advice best and agree 100%. For you Emily (not all recent grads) I'd try #2 no matter what. It takes landing that first job and seeing where it takes you.
Also, what can do in the journalism sector? Could you get a job as a reporter/investigator? A greenwashing sleuth?
as someone who's been reading tons of resumes every week for many, many years, I find the debate about number of resume pages to be specious.
what's REALLY important is how well you organize the information and how clearly you represent your credentials. sometimes short resumes are too long ... sometimes long resumes are too short.
as an employer, what I want to be able to do is quickly find out the basics of your background and then, if I find your basic credentials to be interesting, drill down to more detail. stage three -- if there is a stage three -- is to invite you in for an interview, which is where I really learn what I need to know about you.
I rarely, if ever, find a resume that lacks the essential information I want to read -- I frequently encounter a) resumes that contain way too much information (i.e. - too many words used to convey a simple thought) and b) resumes that make the information I do want to read difficult to find.
Keep it as simple as possible and only add those words that include essential information about your background. The candidate always is going to think his/her fabulous credentials and accomplishments warrant more words and real estate than the employer deems necessary. Mies was right.
The resume is not meant to be a substitute for an interview -- its only purpose is to get you to the interview.
bravo....she is actually an HR person who has been working with architecture firms for over 17 years. She said that in the last 4 years alone, she reviewed over 3000 resumes and hired over 300 people for architecture firms.
She also mentioned that one of the reasons for a one-page resume is because most people are reading resumes on their PDAs now. I don't know if I believe that "most people" do this, but you can't deny the fact that employers are dealing with A LOT of resumes at this point, so maybe the less information they have to deal with, the better. She mentioned that it was a good idea to have a master resume and then a one-page version that you tailored to each job or firm that you applied for. This makes sense to me.
Thanks, comb, for your input!
Strawbeary, that's not a bad idea. I just have no idea how to find those types of jobs...
That's very odd. In all my experience at jobs and looking for them the resume is usually read by a receptionist on a computer screen.
-- I'm not buying that either...at least, not anybody who's serious about recruiting or hiring.
Yeah, but at the same time, HR people are being bombarded at this point, so again, it probably doesn't hurt to keep it short and sweet.
emily -- I repeat -- serious people making a serious effort to fill a vacancy aren't going to get hung up on the length of the resume -- we're much more concerned with how the information is organized and whether the information we need is easy to find.
technically, I'm an "HR person" and yes, I am bombarded with a lot of unsolicited resumes these days. But, I read every one and I respond to every one. I know how to scan them quickly and only invest time in those that convey some skill or capability of current importance to our firm.
The military is usually hiring qualified candidates. You may be one of them, but most likely you fall into that other 70% of our population.
Good luck.
Otf, what do you mean by "other 70%"? Are the recruitment requirements really stringent for officer-level enlistment?
Oh? You want to be an officer? I try to push enlisted as much as I can.
I would imagine that if 70% of our population was not qualified to become enlisted then the percentage probably just got higher for officer material. Even though a degree is required for becomming an officer candidate, it does not mean that you just became qualifed to join. Drugs (recreational or prescription), mental issues, weight, crimes, so on and so forth knock out about 70% of American youth. Which is why about 70% of our population is unable to join the enlisted ranks in the first place.
Comb,
Thanks for posting your take as an experienced consumer of resumes. That is useful information for those of us producing one.
citizen: you're very welcome ... good hunting !
And now that I've got you in my clutches, Comb, let me ask your opinion of LinkedIn.com. I belong there, rather than Facebook, and have gotten in touch with some folks that I otherwise might not have run across --colleague-wise, that is.
What's your take as employer? Do you even use it?
citizen: I'm a member of LinkedIn and I've encountered a few lost contacts around the country who found me there and asked me to link to their pages. I'm also a member of a few discussion groups there, that - at times - prove interesting. However, as a recruitment tool, I'm not sure I've found much use for it yet. But, perhaps I'm just clueless about the possibilities.
I guess my view of the recruitment process remains somewhat traditional ... we post a job ad when we have a need; interested candidates respond; we review their credentials; we invite a few in for interviews; we issue a job offer. Plus, there's always a certain number of resumes that come in over the transom, unsolicited. That process goes on in tandem with our personal networks -- which, so far, still rely on telephone conversations and seeing people we know at industry events or in other social settings. We also let our staff know when we hiring ... I'd say that perhaps 1 opening in 8 is filled by an individual introduced to us by a staff member.
You confirm my suspicions about both that network and also the mainstream recruitment process, comb. Thanks for the information.
comb is in our clutches!
Speaking of LinkedIn, feel free to add me. The HR lady also said to use that as a resource, so I've spiffed up my page there, too.
Sooooo.....fellow graduates. How's it going?
well... still unemployed, but since i'm on the quarter system, i'm still in school for a week and a half. i had 4 firm visits last week. everyone seemed to think work was just around the corner... but still on a hiring freeze. i came away positive, actually.
and i was wondering about this linkdin business.... how well do you know someone before you add them? like, could i add these people i met with? that wouldn't be weird, right?
bravo -- speaking only for myself, I'd recommend that you be careful about adding someone you only know through an employment interview to your linkdin account -- I think I'd find that presumptuous if a candidate did that to me.
thanks for the advice!
"everyone seemed to think work was just around the corner..."
yeah, it's been like that since October.
Yeah, October 2007.
I graduated mid-may from the u of mn and I find this thread to be encouraging. I didn't have an extensive network built up in minneapolis so I decided to uproot and move across the country for personal reasons and to get into a bigger pond. There are definitely more opportunities here, but the market is a lot more saturated as well. While grad school is an appealing escape, I want to avoid the mondo-record-application-numbers of the 2008 round that are sure to present in fall 2009 as well. I am splitting my time looking for work at a firm and looking for something else in the mean time.
I think LinkedIn is great, but I would agree with the other remarks that I am not sure it's real strength lies in recruiting. I think it is most useful a robust, interactive Rolodex. Your references update their contact information at their leisure and you stay connected to old employers/professors/mentors etc.
I was just looking over old threads and came across this one. How's everybody doing out there? I have several friends that were laid off since I started this thread last spring :o(
How about the kiddos still in school? Are you guys trying to make alternate plans, or maybe not finish thesis so you can stay in school longer?!?
I was just looking over old threads and came across this one. How's everybody doing out there? I have several friends that were laid off since I started this thread last spring :o(
How about the kiddos still in school? Are you guys trying to make alternate plans, or maybe not finish thesis so you can stay in school longer?!?
I'm sorry to say that almost a year has gone by and this thread could have been posted today and still be right on point.
i'm one of the 09 grads - I also have a degree in Arch Eng, and was able to find a job.
This is probably the most optimistic thread about this crisis. I graduated in June '09 and I've had some pretty amazing luck, so here's my 2-euro-cents worth of advice:
1. Relocate.
After seeing quite a few '08 grads still on the hunt after a year of searching, I realized that Columbus, Ohio was probably not my best bet for employment. I'd already spent a year working abroad and enjoyed it immensely, so I started looking for jobs in the UK and Europe, where the financial crisis didn't seem so severe.
2. Use your connections / Focus.
I only sent out around 20 application packages, all to firms where I thought I would be a good fit, based on their work and what I could gather about their office culture. Roughly half of these were companies where I had some kind of tenuous connection, either through professors or former co-workers. A few of my classmates sent out resumes like clusterbombs, hoping one would hit, but I think my strategy worked because I focused my application, and tailored each cover letter to the place I was applying - not only by swapping names in the form letter, but by addressing the HR person by name (if possible), and by mentioning specific projects and explaining how I thought my student work compared.
In the end, I only got one offer, at a well-known firm in Rome where a good friend was currently working. To make it work I had to move, and I had to survive on a sub-minimum wage 'intern' stipend for three months before getting a raise. And then there's the visa issues...
But ultimately it worked - and here I am in Europe, with a gap-free resume and more international experience. So my advice would be be flexible. If you're young and single there's absolutely no reason to pass up job postings simply because they're halfway around the world.
^ I think the real reason you found work was not because you looked for work outside where you live or were willing to move. It was simply because you had a personal connection that gave you an in at the office. Jobs today are really only going to those that have an extensive network they can use to leverage themselves...it's not about talent, portfolio or skills.
That sounds like a very narrow view to me. If you had a connection with someone, but not the talent/portfolio/skills they needed, would they hire you? NO. Of course, between two people with roughly equal talent/portfolio/skills, who will they hire? The one they have the personal connection with. I'm not disputing that, but connection isn't a replacement for all those other things, it's yet another thing that makes a candidate the right fit for an office, just one part of the whole.
Possibly. I'm just pointing out that the previous post makes finding a job seem as simple as packing your bags and going to Europe when in fact there is a lot more to it and the fact of the matter is that without his connection in the European office, it's highly doubtful he/she would have gotten hired simply due to the EU restrictions on foreign workers.
dot dash, thanks for offering some criticism about evanc's post! it made me really angry that evanc (and others) still seem(s) to assume that you're doing something wrong if you don't have your dream job these days. really. we all know that you can be doing everything "right," like sending out good, targeted cover letters to firms that are a great fit for you and still not get hired, or even hear anything back.
and the entire "i had to survive on sub-minimum wage 'intern' stipend." ha! not all of us have that luxury. and yes, that IS a luxury. not to mention being "young and single"--some of us are less young and less single!
frankly, i'm really quite anxious for may 2010. yikes! part of me is afraid that once may passes (well, really this summer), that's it. i won't be getting a job in architecture, probably ever. sometimes i'm more optimistic but a lot of times i can't help thinking "there goes >100k in debt and 3 and a half years of incredibly hard work."
anyway, i relocated to chicago partially thinking there are not a whole lot people who attended my grad school, so that's at LEAST helping me stand out from the crowd. still hasn't gotten me a job, though!
My advice for new grads:
Throw a gigantic graduation soiree and invite all your long, lost, wealthy relatives, neighbors, and cousin's cousins. You might get enough graduation money to hold you over for a while.
ACCEPT the fact that ANY JOB IN ANY field is hard to get. Now is the time to network, use all the connections you have, learn new programs, and refine your resume and portfolio.
Unless you're one of the lucky few, you'll most likely spend much of your day scanning job boards and tailoring cover letters to any ad you find.
*Be prepared to swallow your pride and work a manual labor job for minimum wage.
*Don't compare yourself to your friends who will most definitely find success in their respective fields. Doing this will just make drive you into depression.
I'd wish you all good luck, but you're now my competition ;)
I am totally with evanc.
It's all about the location.
I was made redundant in march 2009 (one year ago already yummm). Sent no more than 50 resumes to offices I was interested. In 4 continents. Not a single CV to any practice in Europe/US, since I didn't want to waste my time and get more depressed not receiving a single reply. I finally received about 5-7 replies to do an interview (which was not that bad in March 2009). No connections with anyone at any office.
Got a job in April and ever since doing x2 my British salary in a pretty cheap country. With a quite lavish lifestyle for what I did expect one year ago, I save per month more than my previous total salary.
From time to time I fear I will be made redudant since I'm really expensive when compared to local staff. However, being single, young and willing to relocate I am pretty sure I'd find a job sooner or later anywhere in the world. Whether that place is China, Brazil or India, I have no idea. But I am sure any of those three countries would be a great personal experience and a nice addition for my CV.
As for the visas... when you have an EU or US passport, you are a kind of VIP anywhere outside "the developed world".
^ um no. As a US citizen with a passport, I am still going to be withheld jobs in Europe over an EU citizen. Granted it's not impossible but it really requires a lot of effort on the part of the office with the visa, etc which equates more time and expense hiring a US person than someone in the EU. Trust me, if I could get a job in Berlin I would be packing my bags tomorrow and never looking back.
I'd also like to reiterate prairie school drop out's point about this idea of jetsetting around the world in the pursuit of employment is really a luxury very few people can afford. Consider yourself lucky you have the trust fund/family money/bank account that you have to pursue these opportunities.
I'm curious - what's stopping you from getting a job in Berlin? While offices would certainly rather hire locally, I don't think citizenship is ever a deciding factor. As an American, you're legally allowed to stay in the EU for 90 days on a tourist visa, which is plenty of time to start work (as an independent contractor or freelancer, of course) and convince your employer that you're worth the paperwork for a proper working visa.
As for the 'luxury' of globe-trotting to find jobs, don't assume too much. I lined up this job after a Skype interview, found a cheap flight and a cheap apartment, and scraped by for a month while I waited on that first paycheck. It's possible without a trust fund, and without a lot of savings, you just have to be smart about it, and be willing to take a risk.
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