Yeah but "slavery" is a broad umbrella term. And American styled slavery is particularly brutal compared to historical forms of slavery... on top of that, it was the process and product of American slavery that is relatively unique to the "invention" of Slavery.
England has had an incredibly long history of slavery... at the turn of last millennium, England had roughly 10-15% of their population in slavery conditions. But even in societies big on slavery, few approached the 40-60% mark of slavery that was seen in the South. The US was pretty much so incredible in their lust for slavery that we set an example that caused many places around the world to outlaw slavery.
That's pretty rotten. I think the only other country to come close in sheer number was Korea and maybe India (but percentages in India are relatively low).
A historical setting for future economics was started in 1808ish (the outlaw of importation of slaves {that lead to forced "breeding"}), 1815ish (the proclamation that slaves were forbidden to due factory work {declare unfit which was a blow to the north}) and around 1816ish (a new taxation standard for all factories and workshops over 20 people {a blow to economic development in the South}).
If you take the historical figures of slavery globally (between 10-20%) and overlay them on the current state of affairs... you'll see we have about the same percentage of minimum-wage workers that previous societies had slaves.
So, yeah, Dubai ain't great... but the US isn't angelic either considering we pretty much have institutionalized slavery here. If you're really worried about Dubai, you should be crying every time you order food, pick up your dry cleaning or buy something from a big box store.
A Saudi Arab is different from a Iraqi Arab
A Syrian Arab is far different from a Kuwaiti Arab
A Yemeni Arab is far different from a Qatari Arab
An Algerian Arab is far different from a Omani Arab
A Jordanian Arab is far different from a Tunisian Arab
A Palestinian Arab is different from a Bahraini Arab
An Egyptian Arab is different from a UAE Arab
Floridians are different from Rhode Islanders.
New Mexicans are different from Alaskans.
New Yorkers are different from Californians.
Nevadans are different from Mainers.
Montanans are different from Georgians.
Bay Staters are different from Puerto Ricans.
Micronesians are different from Hooisers.
Canadians are different from Mexicans.
Québécois are different from Bahamians.
Guyanese are different from Hawaiians.
Peruvians are different from Brazilians.
Foreigners will never understand this.
There is no "American."
Yeah but "slavery" is a broad umbrella term. And American styled slavery is particularly brutal compared to historical forms of slavery.
LOL!
Do you have any idea what the Belgians were doing in the Congo as little as a century ago? Do you have any idea how brutal the Nazi's were to their slave labor force? Do you have any idea that the model for American Slavery, especially in South Carolina, came from much more brutal systems in the Carribean? But nonetheless, debating which system was more brutal is like comparing different forms of murder as to which one is the most humane. Slavery is one of the darkest chapters in Human History not just American History and its on all of us to try and make sure it never happens again.
That's all modern era slavery and with the exception of the Nazis, started out as British. Wait, wasn't this country British too? Hmm. I fail to see any connection.
I was talking about slavery a little further back. Say, like, Roman slavery or Chinese slavery or the like?
^yeah, like they were really nice to their slaves.
I thought the Romans had this neat little habit where they would nail troublesome slaves to 2x4s, shove them in the ground upright, and leave them to rot a few feet off the ground for days on end, sometimes i heard they would even nail them upside down, but then again what do i know. I'm just some asshole talking on the internet.
slavery is well alive and practiced in wide range of places. it is not called 'slavery' anymore.
they are called unskilled labor, sweat shop worker, domestic help, child labor, survival worker, seasonal farm workers, illegal alien immigrant, refugees, sex slaves, most service workers, industrial toxins cleaning labor, child soldiers, etc... add your own...
these groups have no chance of upward mobility axcept one in a million.
most of the continent of africa is still dealing from setbacks of this practice. now included other places in asia and south and central america. we have a lot of slavery conditions here in the US too.
they are called unskilled labor, sweat shop worker, domestic help, child labor, survival worker, seasonal farm workers, illegal alien immigrant, refugees, sex slaves, most service workers, industrial toxins cleaning labor, child soldiers, etc... add your own...
Insinuating that minimum wage workers are in "slavery" is fucking stupid. The standard of living that minimum wage laborers enjoy in America is better than 'well-off' in most other countries.
They have civil rights, and the freedom to do whatever the hell they want. Seasonal farm workers? Immigrants? Refugees? Christ dude, stop being so melodramatic. Just because some people don't have a house in the suburbs doesn't make them slaves.
well the sacrificed were taken prisoner from other "civilizations" so yes i would say they were culled from those who would become slaves. rock and hill you are archinects current officious and dull know it all.
i was called stupid before for calling dubai workers slaves. it only shows your own limited view.
it was exact argument, that "they made 10 times better wages in dubai than in their native countries."
if you are going to call somebody fucking stupid, look in the mirror first...
Did you ever stop and think that the guy whos making minimum wage and rooming with his cousin, has little to no stress or worries may be the well to do guy and that the banker worried about his job, his wife and keeping her well jeweled, the car payments, the house and the other house on the Lake, keeping the shareholders happy - he might be the real slave?
Why don't you look up aztec slavery, compare it to chattel slavery and get back to me.
Aztec slavery was not hereditary, they were allowed personal possessions, they could even have other slaves and manumission or the purchase of freedom was possible. True slaves (those not being sacrificed) could also obtain freedom if they could prove mistreatment.
This is kind of the big thing here is that other forms of slavery had different methodologies but a common feature almost exclusive to modern American slavery is the lack of manumission.
Personal attacks on me are whatever but don't use them because you don't like to hear the relative truth about the US.
Last time I checked minimum wage workers at Burger King werent getting beaten and shitting in a hole in the floor. Im not sure that would be good for business.
i know the relative truth of the u.s.a. slavery was a horrible institution. it's a disgrace and its vestiges still impact of today. and of course, even after the civil war ended, the seminole and other civilized tribes kept their slaves, history is displacement, humiliation, carnage and genocide. do you actually think the people here don't know this? do you think you are dealing with a junior high history class? and crassus was really good to the slaves after sparticus by crucifying thousands of slaves (maybe they had possessions? i'll get back to you.) along the appian way. thanks for playing. better luck tomorrow.
I was called stupid before for calling dubai workers slaves. it only shows your own limited view.
it was exact argument that they made 10 times better wages in dubai than in their native countries.
if you are going to call somebody fucking stupid, look in the mirror first...
I didn't call you stupid, I said insinuating that minimum wage workers and the like are "slaves," is.
Vado, I don't know why you're using that point over and over again.
Crucifixion was simply a corporal punishment for those considered to be the lowest members of society. So, yeah... slaves who committed criminal offenses under the Roman penal code were and could only be executed by crucifixion.
They simply weren't suited for higher class deaths. It's a horrible way to die but your outlook on it kind of invalidates the who slogan "Live free or die."
I don't think most Romans, especially Crassus, would go out of their way to murder their bread-and-butter for shits and giggles. Crassus was a notorious slave trafficker anyways... so I doubt that's anymore than anti-empire propaganda since Crassus was the biggest supported of Julius Caesar.
I don't think most Romans, especially Crassus, would go out of their way to murder their bread-and-butter for shits and giggles
And you think Joe The Slave Owner down in South Carolina frequently murdered his negroes just for shits and giggles? That would be like setting your car on fire just for the hell of it.
Now, after slavery ended in the south on the other hand killing black men became a bit of a pass time...
Apurimac:
"I thought the british were the first to ban slavery?"
The first of the major colonial powers to do so, but as I understand, it was more about realpolitik than anything else. Having lost the American colonies at that point and with a vast pool of indentured workers to staff their caribbean holdings with, they needed the slave trade less than their principle continental competitors - the Dutch and the French. Banning trans-atlantic slavetrading became a convenient way for them to board and seize civilian ships sailing under enemy flag.
a lot of the irrational associations passing for criticism here, that only use the sordid side of dubai to fuel the authors' antipathies and hateful energies, show the dark side of these authors.
I tried to suck things over into something more interesting with Santiago Sierra, but. Yknow.
Bad sales pitch I think.
Im not really interested in what people call things. All this gaming bullshit. The real-life physical consequences of these massive collective delusions though really do cut me to the core.
The Dark Side Of Dubai
Yeah but "slavery" is a broad umbrella term. And American styled slavery is particularly brutal compared to historical forms of slavery... on top of that, it was the process and product of American slavery that is relatively unique to the "invention" of Slavery.
England has had an incredibly long history of slavery... at the turn of last millennium, England had roughly 10-15% of their population in slavery conditions. But even in societies big on slavery, few approached the 40-60% mark of slavery that was seen in the South. The US was pretty much so incredible in their lust for slavery that we set an example that caused many places around the world to outlaw slavery.
That's pretty rotten. I think the only other country to come close in sheer number was Korea and maybe India (but percentages in India are relatively low).
A historical setting for future economics was started in 1808ish (the outlaw of importation of slaves {that lead to forced "breeding"}), 1815ish (the proclamation that slaves were forbidden to due factory work {declare unfit which was a blow to the north}) and around 1816ish (a new taxation standard for all factories and workshops over 20 people {a blow to economic development in the South}).
Oh lawdy, is dat sum argument for density?
If you take the historical figures of slavery globally (between 10-20%) and overlay them on the current state of affairs... you'll see we have about the same percentage of minimum-wage workers that previous societies had slaves.
So, yeah, Dubai ain't great... but the US isn't angelic either considering we pretty much have institutionalized slavery here. If you're really worried about Dubai, you should be crying every time you order food, pick up your dry cleaning or buy something from a big box store.
A Saudi Arab is different from a Iraqi Arab
A Syrian Arab is far different from a Kuwaiti Arab
A Yemeni Arab is far different from a Qatari Arab
An Algerian Arab is far different from a Omani Arab
A Jordanian Arab is far different from a Tunisian Arab
A Palestinian Arab is different from a Bahraini Arab
An Egyptian Arab is different from a UAE Arab
Most Americans will never understand this.
And Pan-Arabism is dead.
Floridians are different from Rhode Islanders.
New Mexicans are different from Alaskans.
New Yorkers are different from Californians.
Nevadans are different from Mainers.
Montanans are different from Georgians.
Bay Staters are different from Puerto Ricans.
Micronesians are different from Hooisers.
Canadians are different from Mexicans.
Québécois are different from Bahamians.
Guyanese are different from Hawaiians.
Peruvians are different from Brazilians.
Foreigners will never understand this.
There is no "American."
I prefer the demonym "Citizen of New Mexico and The United States of America."
LOL!
Do you have any idea what the Belgians were doing in the Congo as little as a century ago? Do you have any idea how brutal the Nazi's were to their slave labor force? Do you have any idea that the model for American Slavery, especially in South Carolina, came from much more brutal systems in the Carribean? But nonetheless, debating which system was more brutal is like comparing different forms of murder as to which one is the most humane. Slavery is one of the darkest chapters in Human History not just American History and its on all of us to try and make sure it never happens again.
That's all modern era slavery and with the exception of the Nazis, started out as British. Wait, wasn't this country British too? Hmm. I fail to see any connection.
I was talking about slavery a little further back. Say, like, Roman slavery or Chinese slavery or the like?
^yeah, like they were really nice to their slaves.
I thought the Romans had this neat little habit where they would nail troublesome slaves to 2x4s, shove them in the ground upright, and leave them to rot a few feet off the ground for days on end, sometimes i heard they would even nail them upside down, but then again what do i know. I'm just some asshole talking on the internet.
slavery is well alive and practiced in wide range of places. it is not called 'slavery' anymore.
they are called unskilled labor, sweat shop worker, domestic help, child labor, survival worker, seasonal farm workers, illegal alien immigrant, refugees, sex slaves, most service workers, industrial toxins cleaning labor, child soldiers, etc... add your own...
these groups have no chance of upward mobility axcept one in a million.
most of the continent of africa is still dealing from setbacks of this practice. now included other places in asia and south and central america. we have a lot of slavery conditions here in the US too.
the aztecs were really nice to their slaves until they cut their beating hearts out of their bodies.
wouldn't necessarily call a sacrifice a slave... would you?
they are called unskilled labor, sweat shop worker, domestic help, child labor, survival worker, seasonal farm workers, illegal alien immigrant, refugees, sex slaves, most service workers, industrial toxins cleaning labor, child soldiers, etc... add your own...
Insinuating that minimum wage workers are in "slavery" is fucking stupid. The standard of living that minimum wage laborers enjoy in America is better than 'well-off' in most other countries.
They have civil rights, and the freedom to do whatever the hell they want. Seasonal farm workers? Immigrants? Refugees? Christ dude, stop being so melodramatic. Just because some people don't have a house in the suburbs doesn't make them slaves.
well the sacrificed were taken prisoner from other "civilizations" so yes i would say they were culled from those who would become slaves. rock and hill you are archinects current officious and dull know it all.
i was called stupid before for calling dubai workers slaves. it only shows your own limited view.
it was exact argument, that "they made 10 times better wages in dubai than in their native countries."
if you are going to call somebody fucking stupid, look in the mirror first...
Did you ever stop and think that the guy whos making minimum wage and rooming with his cousin, has little to no stress or worries may be the well to do guy and that the banker worried about his job, his wife and keeping her well jeweled, the car payments, the house and the other house on the Lake, keeping the shareholders happy - he might be the real slave?
Why don't you look up aztec slavery, compare it to chattel slavery and get back to me.
Aztec slavery was not hereditary, they were allowed personal possessions, they could even have other slaves and manumission or the purchase of freedom was possible. True slaves (those not being sacrificed) could also obtain freedom if they could prove mistreatment.
This is kind of the big thing here is that other forms of slavery had different methodologies but a common feature almost exclusive to modern American slavery is the lack of manumission.
Personal attacks on me are whatever but don't use them because you don't like to hear the relative truth about the US.
Last time I checked minimum wage workers at Burger King werent getting beaten and shitting in a hole in the floor. Im not sure that would be good for business.
i know the relative truth of the u.s.a. slavery was a horrible institution. it's a disgrace and its vestiges still impact of today. and of course, even after the civil war ended, the seminole and other civilized tribes kept their slaves, history is displacement, humiliation, carnage and genocide. do you actually think the people here don't know this? do you think you are dealing with a junior high history class? and crassus was really good to the slaves after sparticus by crucifying thousands of slaves (maybe they had possessions? i'll get back to you.) along the appian way. thanks for playing. better luck tomorrow.
I was called stupid before for calling dubai workers slaves. it only shows your own limited view.
it was exact argument that they made 10 times better wages in dubai than in their native countries.
if you are going to call somebody fucking stupid, look in the mirror first...
I didn't call you stupid, I said insinuating that minimum wage workers and the like are "slaves," is.
Vado, I don't know why you're using that point over and over again.
Crucifixion was simply a corporal punishment for those considered to be the lowest members of society. So, yeah... slaves who committed criminal offenses under the Roman penal code were and could only be executed by crucifixion.
They simply weren't suited for higher class deaths. It's a horrible way to die but your outlook on it kind of invalidates the who slogan "Live free or die."
I don't think most Romans, especially Crassus, would go out of their way to murder their bread-and-butter for shits and giggles. Crassus was a notorious slave trafficker anyways... so I doubt that's anymore than anti-empire propaganda since Crassus was the biggest supported of Julius Caesar.
Get better points! Because... uhh SHA-ZAMMMMMMMM!
they were chosen at random.
And you think Joe The Slave Owner down in South Carolina frequently murdered his negroes just for shits and giggles? That would be like setting your car on fire just for the hell of it.
Now, after slavery ended in the south on the other hand killing black men became a bit of a pass time...
evilplatypus: "Last time I checked minimum wage workers at Burger King werent getting beaten and shitting in a hole in the floor."
That only happens at Dennys ;-P
At least people at Denny's get 40 acres and a mule!
Apurimac:
"I thought the british were the first to ban slavery?"
The first of the major colonial powers to do so, but as I understand, it was more about realpolitik than anything else. Having lost the American colonies at that point and with a vast pool of indentured workers to staff their caribbean holdings with, they needed the slave trade less than their principle continental competitors - the Dutch and the French. Banning trans-atlantic slavetrading became a convenient way for them to board and seize civilian ships sailing under enemy flag.
I live in Bristol and the city was the first slave trading post. If you want to know how that all changed in a digestible quick fix - watch this film:
Joan Gruffudd plays Wilberforce, not a bad turn by the Welshman.
Neat point urbanist.
a lot of the irrational associations passing for criticism here, that only use the sordid side of dubai to fuel the authors' antipathies and hateful energies, show the dark side of these authors.
Just checking, is this conversation still full of ridiculous ignorance? Oh, okay, good, carry on, then.
I tried to suck things over into something more interesting with Santiago Sierra, but. Yknow.
Bad sales pitch I think.
Im not really interested in what people call things. All this gaming bullshit. The real-life physical consequences of these massive collective delusions though really do cut me to the core.
Listening to an interview with the author of this article now on This Is Hell.
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