yeah, just another victim of the economic sniper. but i've got some lines in the water, a few leads and a go ahead to look beyond seattle. so, it's a good thing, i think.
not licensed, i kept putting it off and the whole IDP thing is something i haven't had patience for.
have the test lined up, tho and study materials - it's on the summer agenda.
also, i don't really have the experience to strike out on my own - i'm in the unfortunate incident of having tons of SD/DD/CD experiences and then really minimal TI and small projects for CA.
a lot of times companies don't let you get involved in CA or SD, i worked at a small office for a while and they pretty much had no choice but to let me be involved in every step of the projects, its like a had to position myself within a company in order to get the experience needed, Kind of like playing chess. You know what though? i learned from that experience but mostly in the client to architect to contractor relationships area, real expertise about all the legal and technical jargon came to me from reading lots of books and some of these websites are nice too but mostly it was just plain old self education that allowed me to finish my idp stuff.
come to china! i love my experience here.
compared to the states, i feel i am on vacation here, not to mention the perks. the insanely cheap cost of living, the girls etc.
my only fear now is how difficult it will be to get use to the way they work in the states, if i ever go back.
p.s. i worked in nyc for over 15 years, what an overrated experience looking back.
I feel like China is going to have a major breakdown soon, they are overbuilding their cities, they had economic boom for a decade or something, while the whole world is in financial crisis, I'm afraid that now is not really a good time to go to China, the bubble got pretty big.
I wonder that, too - what is fueling China's boom? Who is funding all these large projects? The country must be creating money out of air (a Central bank) to pay for this work, for hopes it will pay off later (infrastructure payback, taxes on properties). Lika- do you know?
Shows the power of what a country, not tied to the 'market,' can do on it's own. Does the US, then, need to (re)consider the idea of a Central Bank? A bank that might compete with the 'market' banks -keep them in 'check?' I'm certainly not an 'economy' guy, but seems there needs to be something to shake up the hold our current banking system has on our society.
The company I work at laid off most people in 2008 and 2009 but now the remaining people are quitting. It seems they are just opting out of their jobs for equally bad paying jobs doing something else. Has it gotten this bad?
The greatest internal migration in history and the insatiable AMerican appetite for its exports are what is responsible for its growth. They have trillions of US dollars to spend and to back up their own borrowing.
JOeyD's comments are interesting as fees are getting cut so low that you can make better money as a bartender in some cases.
It seems they are just opting out of their jobs for equally bad paying jobs doing something else.
Working in the "pits" of an Architecture firm doing the gritty production work I hear what the "survivors" are grumbling about and it mirrors JoeyD's comments. Nobody is happy.
In the past when after a lot of hard work you at least could count on a crappy bonus and modest raise, people largely would accept it as a part of life. Today, everyone has the grass-is-greener mentality. Something seemingly better shows up and that person is good as gone.
Give us a modest recovery and jop-hopping is going to go into overdrive. I'm currently working under a pay cut making my wages similar to 2005-06 rate. On top of that I've missed any cost of living raise and bonus for 3 consecuitive years now, not to mention loss of 401k, etc. All this in a profession where nobody lived lavishly in the good times. The belt tightening can only go on for so long.
When good times return management will need to bring wages to above pre-recession levels to keep staff turnover to a minimum.
@make, that's not a reason. Before China, Japan was the main debtor of the US and after their crazy bubble (remember, the land of the Imperial Palace in Tokyo was worth more than California) their market sunk to the present date.
Let's talk about Dubai, while backed by Abu Dhabi (one of the biggest sovereign funds in the world), their market collapsed because there is no way in the world so many people can buy some many expensive apartments/offices in that place.
I am really scared of China. Prices in some major cities have increased more than 50% on a year-to-year basis and vacancy rates are at their highest level. Besides most of the fancy buildings Westerns architects would be willing to do there are plain useless. China needs more affordable housing and less flashy skyscrapers to remain empty. A crisis in China will not be any good for the rest of us.
Anyway, I am curious to know how the public sector is in the US now.
In the UK, the new Conservative goverment presented a £6.25 billion cut in public expenditure today . That will mean that many public projects (which basically is the only thing going on right now in many arch. firms) will be axed, notably a school scheme that aimed to refurbish or rebuilt most public schools around the country. Plus more than 300,000 lay-offs in the public sector.
I fear another wave of lay-offs in the architecture industry in the UK.
For what I know, some other European countries have presented similar cuts in public works (i.e. Greece, Spain), cancelling many government buildings.
Whatever you do don’t come to Illinois the governor is going to sign a budget with a 6 billion dollar deficit this year and a 13 Billion dollar deficit for next year with over a Billion owed to the state Universities, there is no way any building can be done with state funds, we can’t even sell an unused prison to the feds at a loss. If we don’t have a significant tax increase we are going to have to borrow by selling bonds. The same Bonds normally fund capitol development but are instead going to pensions and salaries. U of I has a new President at 600,000 + salary, plus a house and a car and a job for his spouse. Become an academic administrator folks. look important and dodge questions and make a fortune.
cherith - i'm right there with you. i think brazil will see an enormous amount of work in the run up to the olympics. downside... you've got to know portugese...
I thought it was 40-44% total workforce. Arch Record mentioned it a few months back I think. It will be larger each year as more kids graduate and don't land jobs. I guess we now know what it feels like to be a commercial pilot right now. They have been dealing with a similar crisis for the last decade.
The 25% comes from the US Labor department, and includes everyone in the architectural industry. I suspect that the number is a lot more like what PJN26 says, around 40-44% - I read that also in Record. I'm sure that in certain cities, like NY, it's higher.
lol... seems so, JoeyD. Although this is a REALLY bad downturn, the profession does this periodically, so, best to prepare for them.... a lesson I have learned the hard way.
I hear you Cheith Cutestory, but with a possible 40 to 60% unemployment rate, the worst its been for architects since the great depression, lot of people are being forced to get out of architecture. Even when its all over we (architects) will probably have to commemorate a memorial day for the lost architects.
ps. at my Alma mater they are still getting record number of students, (even throughout the nation) even with this big economic downturn, wonder why? anyone have any ideas?
I mean why are architecture colleges getting a record number of new undergrad students, with grads its a little easy to understand lots of unemployed arch's are back in college? i realize we have more people than we did 10 years ago, but these numbers are like 5 times what they used to be 10 years ago.
You know its just curious because society does not respect architects, heck we have a hard time respecting each other, but that's another story, yet record number of people are attending college of architecture? isn't it just a little curious? you would think that parents would probably say something like " No you are not going to college to be an unemployed architect young lady/man"
What make you think that parents know anything about architecture?
Recently I had conversation with a doctor (not my doctor, but just a person who is practicing medicine) and told him about my failed interview for a job that would pay $ 25 / hour and how frustrated I was about it.
He made a face and said, that as far as he knows even AutoCAD drafters make more than $25/hour...
Precisely 3 years ago one of my friends, who was 30 at than time, and had small, but successful construction business was thinking about going back to school for architectural degree and his wife was very supportive, because, according to her, there is certain social status attached to this profession. On the other hand, it was forbade to her kid to be a musician, because "they do not want any poor people in the family"...
I do not know if these opinions of hers have changed, but it certainly was interesting to listen at that time...
I recently was talking to a dean of a major Architecture College at an AIA event. He too said that undergrad admissions is higher than ever. Though he did also remind me that by next year 75% of them will be gone.
on a side note, i'm considering going to law school. i am looking into construction law. i figure i have another 40+ years in the workforce and i'm not so sure i'm willing to battle 4-6 more downturns - or the crappy pay - as an architect for that long.
+i, this is the most practical career switch one is thinking to make!
this is interesting, because I was not able to come up with anything better than assisting my "significant other" with web design while unemployed, his home office management and billing...
One the other hand law school will require additional years and loans...
law school isn't the safe bet i think people once thought it was! i know a fair amount of recent law school grads from good schools who can't find work (sound familiar?) i also know a few who are scared as hell that they'll be laid off any day now (granted, i still think they're making 6 digits, but still).
however, i do know two people who are actually being paid like 60k to not work this year (and hopefully start working at the place that's paying them to not work soon). i discussed this arrangement with a lawyer friend and she was like, well, we all have so much in loans we want to get paid off in a few years, so it's only fair. i told her that i have little hope of making 60k anywhere in the near future and i've got the same loans. sheesh!
Best look into farming. because when nobody has any money to spend on build layers etc. Whomever has the production of needed products, food, will do well for the last available funds and have things to bargain with.
I have sadly thought about the law route too....but it seems that young lawyers' employment rates might be worse than ours. It also seems schools have been propping their employment numbers up with short term internships and the like. Apparently Northwestern Law (ranked in a tie for #11 - so VERY difficult to get into, and VERY well respected) has seen its students have their employment deferred for over a year in many cases (and it did not even say how many were employed in the first place). Check wikipedia on lawyers under controversy. Anyway, I think the reality is we either wait it out, which seems like it could take several more years. Or we find other occupations. What else is there to do? Or are people actually getting back to work now? i hate being so blind. Why are the numbers concerning all this so hard to find?!?!
i can verify that law #s are as bad as arch. somehow my sister who graduated from law school in DC last year finally clawed her way into a clerkship. i thought arch horror stories were bad, her lawyer buds all seem infinitely fukt - no job and ginormous loans past due.
anti - we've gone that route. turned our landlord's zen garden into an urban garden.
that's the way Cuba was forced to do it and it is a sustainable method.
on the layer schtick it is really depressing how we as people become forced to require them to translate/speak in court system that seems more institutional (about the jobs) than ever now. especially juvenile courts (no jury, all hearsay, under payed appointed frequently rotating layers)
what do people think about those new u3 hire US union stuff, or even what part IWW could play in our struggle?
The policies drawing the highest levels of support were discouraging the outsourcing of American jobs (93.5%), enacting of a financial transactions tax (88.6%), extending unemployment insurance benefits (87.4%), preventing employers from using a job applicant’s credit ratings (86.9%), and creating a Works Progress Administration style jobs program (85.7%).
My friend got a job at BBG NY office, he said 90% of staff is chinese there, because most of their projects are in china, even their computers are set up to write in chinese, it took him a while to figure out how to switch to english...
Layoffs....layoffs......
yeah, just another victim of the economic sniper. but i've got some lines in the water, a few leads and a go ahead to look beyond seattle. so, it's a good thing, i think.
sorry to hear that, but good luck holz!
thats the spirit!
sorry to hear that holz box,
are you licensed? if you are what are you waiting for strike out on your own, instead of being a corporate flunki
ha. thanks - i kinda need it.
not licensed, i kept putting it off and the whole IDP thing is something i haven't had patience for.
have the test lined up, tho and study materials - it's on the summer agenda.
also, i don't really have the experience to strike out on my own - i'm in the unfortunate incident of having tons of SD/DD/CD experiences and then really minimal TI and small projects for CA.
a lot of times companies don't let you get involved in CA or SD, i worked at a small office for a while and they pretty much had no choice but to let me be involved in every step of the projects, its like a had to position myself within a company in order to get the experience needed, Kind of like playing chess. You know what though? i learned from that experience but mostly in the client to architect to contractor relationships area, real expertise about all the legal and technical jargon came to me from reading lots of books and some of these websites are nice too but mostly it was just plain old self education that allowed me to finish my idp stuff.
come to china! i love my experience here.
compared to the states, i feel i am on vacation here, not to mention the perks. the insanely cheap cost of living, the girls etc.
my only fear now is how difficult it will be to get use to the way they work in the states, if i ever go back.
p.s. i worked in nyc for over 15 years, what an overrated experience looking back.
I feel like China is going to have a major breakdown soon, they are overbuilding their cities, they had economic boom for a decade or something, while the whole world is in financial crisis, I'm afraid that now is not really a good time to go to China, the bubble got pretty big.
I wonder that, too - what is fueling China's boom? Who is funding all these large projects? The country must be creating money out of air (a Central bank) to pay for this work, for hopes it will pay off later (infrastructure payback, taxes on properties). Lika- do you know?
Shows the power of what a country, not tied to the 'market,' can do on it's own. Does the US, then, need to (re)consider the idea of a Central Bank? A bank that might compete with the 'market' banks -keep them in 'check?' I'm certainly not an 'economy' guy, but seems there needs to be something to shake up the hold our current banking system has on our society.
Just sayin.
The company I work at laid off most people in 2008 and 2009 but now the remaining people are quitting. It seems they are just opting out of their jobs for equally bad paying jobs doing something else. Has it gotten this bad?
The greatest internal migration in history and the insatiable AMerican appetite for its exports are what is responsible for its growth. They have trillions of US dollars to spend and to back up their own borrowing.
JOeyD's comments are interesting as fees are getting cut so low that you can make better money as a bartender in some cases.
Working in the "pits" of an Architecture firm doing the gritty production work I hear what the "survivors" are grumbling about and it mirrors JoeyD's comments. Nobody is happy.
In the past when after a lot of hard work you at least could count on a crappy bonus and modest raise, people largely would accept it as a part of life. Today, everyone has the grass-is-greener mentality. Something seemingly better shows up and that person is good as gone.
Give us a modest recovery and jop-hopping is going to go into overdrive. I'm currently working under a pay cut making my wages similar to 2005-06 rate. On top of that I've missed any cost of living raise and bonus for 3 consecuitive years now, not to mention loss of 401k, etc. All this in a profession where nobody lived lavishly in the good times. The belt tightening can only go on for so long.
When good times return management will need to bring wages to above pre-recession levels to keep staff turnover to a minimum.
@make, that's not a reason. Before China, Japan was the main debtor of the US and after their crazy bubble (remember, the land of the Imperial Palace in Tokyo was worth more than California) their market sunk to the present date.
Let's talk about Dubai, while backed by Abu Dhabi (one of the biggest sovereign funds in the world), their market collapsed because there is no way in the world so many people can buy some many expensive apartments/offices in that place.
I am really scared of China. Prices in some major cities have increased more than 50% on a year-to-year basis and vacancy rates are at their highest level. Besides most of the fancy buildings Westerns architects would be willing to do there are plain useless. China needs more affordable housing and less flashy skyscrapers to remain empty. A crisis in China will not be any good for the rest of us.
Anyway, I am curious to know how the public sector is in the US now.
In the UK, the new Conservative goverment presented a £6.25 billion cut in public expenditure today . That will mean that many public projects (which basically is the only thing going on right now in many arch. firms) will be axed, notably a school scheme that aimed to refurbish or rebuilt most public schools around the country. Plus more than 300,000 lay-offs in the public sector.
I fear another wave of lay-offs in the architecture industry in the UK.
For what I know, some other European countries have presented similar cuts in public works (i.e. Greece, Spain), cancelling many government buildings.
Is the US doing something similar?
Word on the street is that Brazil is going to the next market to explode with work. China may very soon because today's Dubai.
HNTB lays off 150, including 35 in Kansas City area
http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/stories/2010/05/17/daily50.html?surround=lfn
Hadn't heard about one of these in awhile...
Whatever you do don’t come to Illinois the governor is going to sign a budget with a 6 billion dollar deficit this year and a 13 Billion dollar deficit for next year with over a Billion owed to the state Universities, there is no way any building can be done with state funds, we can’t even sell an unused prison to the feds at a loss. If we don’t have a significant tax increase we are going to have to borrow by selling bonds. The same Bonds normally fund capitol development but are instead going to pensions and salaries. U of I has a new President at 600,000 + salary, plus a house and a car and a job for his spouse. Become an academic administrator folks. look important and dodge questions and make a fortune.
cherith - i'm right there with you. i think brazil will see an enormous amount of work in the run up to the olympics. downside... you've got to know portugese...
Have you heard Portugese? Somehow I can't imagine learning to speak Portugese being a downside.
"HNTB lays off 150, including 35 in Kansas City area"
Holly crap! its like a freaking massacre!
It just keeps going... and the "official" statistic is 25% architects unemployed.... HAHAHAHA
just curious where are you guys getting your numbers? is that 25% including unlicensed and licensed?
I thought it was 40-44% total workforce. Arch Record mentioned it a few months back I think. It will be larger each year as more kids graduate and don't land jobs. I guess we now know what it feels like to be a commercial pilot right now. They have been dealing with a similar crisis for the last decade.
I heard its like 60% in NY, but I'm really want to see official numbers some where.
The 25% comes from the US Labor department, and includes everyone in the architectural industry. I suspect that the number is a lot more like what PJN26 says, around 40-44% - I read that also in Record. I'm sure that in certain cities, like NY, it's higher.
From 48% to 40-60%
http://www.downtownjournal.com/index.php?&story=14973&page=65&category=0
Our company laid off 2 more yesterday but they were recent hires for a job that was canceled, sort of a wash then.
"Architecture has gone from the mother of arts to the Rodney Dangerfield of professions"
lol... seems so, JoeyD. Although this is a REALLY bad downturn, the profession does this periodically, so, best to prepare for them.... a lesson I have learned the hard way.
wow that downtown journal sure paints the picture for us. Sounds like we better defect to Cuba so we don't have to pay college loans, long live fidel!
or whoever is in charge anyway we are screwd
I suggest North Korea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryugyong_Hotel
is anyone about to run out of census work? are you thinking of plan B or C or H ?
I think my Census Job will be over in the next two weeks.
over and out
I'm really looking forward to the day when we all get to bury this thread deep within the archives.
I hear you Cheith Cutestory, but with a possible 40 to 60% unemployment rate, the worst its been for architects since the great depression, lot of people are being forced to get out of architecture. Even when its all over we (architects) will probably have to commemorate a memorial day for the lost architects.
ps. at my Alma mater they are still getting record number of students, (even throughout the nation) even with this big economic downturn, wonder why? anyone have any ideas?
I mean why are architecture colleges getting a record number of new undergrad students, with grads its a little easy to understand lots of unemployed arch's are back in college? i realize we have more people than we did 10 years ago, but these numbers are like 5 times what they used to be 10 years ago.
You know its just curious because society does not respect architects, heck we have a hard time respecting each other, but that's another story, yet record number of people are attending college of architecture? isn't it just a little curious? you would think that parents would probably say something like " No you are not going to college to be an unemployed architect young lady/man"
What make you think that parents know anything about architecture?
Recently I had conversation with a doctor (not my doctor, but just a person who is practicing medicine) and told him about my failed interview for a job that would pay $ 25 / hour and how frustrated I was about it.
He made a face and said, that as far as he knows even AutoCAD drafters make more than $25/hour...
Precisely 3 years ago one of my friends, who was 30 at than time, and had small, but successful construction business was thinking about going back to school for architectural degree and his wife was very supportive, because, according to her, there is certain social status attached to this profession. On the other hand, it was forbade to her kid to be a musician, because "they do not want any poor people in the family"...
I do not know if these opinions of hers have changed, but it certainly was interesting to listen at that time...
I recently was talking to a dean of a major Architecture College at an AIA event. He too said that undergrad admissions is higher than ever. Though he did also remind me that by next year 75% of them will be gone.
i'm with cutestory.
on a side note, i'm considering going to law school. i am looking into construction law. i figure i have another 40+ years in the workforce and i'm not so sure i'm willing to battle 4-6 more downturns - or the crappy pay - as an architect for that long.
PJN26 yes the census job is over and each week more people are laid off. peak theory applies to any finite resource (forms)
back to standing on a interstate ramp with my unemployed architect cardboard sign
and UI benefits will be cut off Nov. i hear
+i, this is the most practical career switch one is thinking to make!
this is interesting, because I was not able to come up with anything better than assisting my "significant other" with web design while unemployed, his home office management and billing...
One the other hand law school will require additional years and loans...
my census job is ending. sucks.
im working as an autobody and mechanic for my dad's shop right now, tough work. lots of craftsmanship involved, not to mention lots of elbow grease.
law school isn't the safe bet i think people once thought it was! i know a fair amount of recent law school grads from good schools who can't find work (sound familiar?) i also know a few who are scared as hell that they'll be laid off any day now (granted, i still think they're making 6 digits, but still).
however, i do know two people who are actually being paid like 60k to not work this year (and hopefully start working at the place that's paying them to not work soon). i discussed this arrangement with a lawyer friend and she was like, well, we all have so much in loans we want to get paid off in a few years, so it's only fair. i told her that i have little hope of making 60k anywhere in the near future and i've got the same loans. sheesh!
Best look into farming. because when nobody has any money to spend on build layers etc. Whomever has the production of needed products, food, will do well for the last available funds and have things to bargain with.
for instance i just helped plant a whole orchird of trees and helped erect greenhouses.
I have sadly thought about the law route too....but it seems that young lawyers' employment rates might be worse than ours. It also seems schools have been propping their employment numbers up with short term internships and the like. Apparently Northwestern Law (ranked in a tie for #11 - so VERY difficult to get into, and VERY well respected) has seen its students have their employment deferred for over a year in many cases (and it did not even say how many were employed in the first place). Check wikipedia on lawyers under controversy. Anyway, I think the reality is we either wait it out, which seems like it could take several more years. Or we find other occupations. What else is there to do? Or are people actually getting back to work now? i hate being so blind. Why are the numbers concerning all this so hard to find?!?!
i can verify that law #s are as bad as arch. somehow my sister who graduated from law school in DC last year finally clawed her way into a clerkship. i thought arch horror stories were bad, her lawyer buds all seem infinitely fukt - no job and ginormous loans past due.
anti - we've gone that route. turned our landlord's zen garden into an urban garden.
that's the way Cuba was forced to do it and it is a sustainable method.
The policies drawing the highest levels of support were discouraging the outsourcing of American jobs (93.5%), enacting of a financial transactions tax (88.6%), extending unemployment insurance benefits (87.4%), preventing employers from using a job applicant’s credit ratings (86.9%), and creating a Works Progress Administration style jobs program (85.7%).on the layer schtick it is really depressing how we as people become forced to require them to translate/speak in court system that seems more institutional (about the jobs) than ever now. especially juvenile courts (no jury, all hearsay, under payed appointed frequently rotating layers)
what do people think about those new u3 hire US union stuff, or even what part IWW could play in our struggle?
http://www.unionofunemployed.com/files/2010/06/Hire_Us_America_21_Plan.pdf
My friend got a job at BBG NY office, he said 90% of staff is chinese there, because most of their projects are in china, even their computers are set up to write in chinese, it took him a while to figure out how to switch to english...
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