med. - as always, you go off the deep end anytime you sense the slightest hint that maybe an employer isn't willing to open up his wallet and throw money at a qualified candidate.
more than likely, what the employer was saying to charlotte is "to me, your services are worth only $____ to our firm at this particular time, given the low fees we're experiencing in the marketplace" That's a far cry from defining, and insulting, charlotte's worth.
I expect when times are hard, you've probably said to yourself --- "hmmmm, you know what, I just don't need to be spending $25 for a haircut. maybe I'll find somebody to cut my hair for $15". That doesn't mean your original barber is only "worth" $15 ... it means that a haircut (a service) is worth only $15 to you at that particular point in time.
while I'm sympathetic with the way the interview made charlotte feel, the story doesn't necessarily mean the employer was trying to cheat or humiliate charlotte. times are hard and we all have to make hard decisions. sometimes those decisions lead to discomfort.
simply saying that an employer ought to pay higher wages doesn't make it possible for the employer to do so.
: first, I think you have to decide how badly you need, or want, this particular position. if it's really important to you, decide what compensation level you really would be willing to accept.
second, you don't exactly say whether they offered you the job at $40k. If they did, it's certainly worth your time to make a reasonable counteroffer. I think it entirely appropriate to let the firm know that you'd consider something in the general range of the number you decide on above in the first paragraph. However, I personally think it unlikely they'll consider jumping from $40k to, say, $60k.
If you're not willing or able to work at a level considerably below your expectations, then I would tell the firm politely that you're going to keep looking for a situation that's a better fit ... and then just do that. You always are free to set your own price for your services.
I agree that this is not about your worth. What you have described are negotiating tactics. If you need the job, I would suggest that you crunch some numbers. At your last salary you were probably taking home around $4500 per month. Figure out what you need to live on and give yourself some wiggle room.
You don't have to accept his first offer, you can counter. He most likely would not have spent three hours with you if he wasn't interested in your work...unless he was a total narcissist and the interview was all about him.
So he showed you a job offer from somebody else with more experience. You don't know this person, you don't know their background, you don't know their financial situation and you don't know if the guy was being truthful or not.
Also, the jobs bill is ready for Obama's signature. If you are presently unemployed your future employer does not have to contribute the 6.2% of your Social Security throughout the rest of the year. If he employs you for a full year he gets an additional $1000. Use that as part of your negotiations.
I know it's hard to do, but take the emotion out of it. Think of this as a temporary move until things improve.
It was unnerving for me to have a 3 hour interview and come out of it feeling like shit.
The interviewer was somewhat narcissistic in his interview method, but a very good talker and listener as well. I watched as he showed me 20 *what-they-teach-you-in-school-not-to-design* projects, and then 20 that were not too bad. At this point, it's not all about that though...
I hope he spent that extra time with me for a reason.
Also, I submitted my resume to the help wanted ad @ 3:56pm last week. The same day, at 4:06pm, I recieved a call where we spoke for 1 hr. 20min. I hope this is because he was bluffing and saw that I had potential.
I wouldn't be so upset with a 25% paycut, ((from 73,250 to 55,000))but that is all I can afford to take at this time. For me to take 40,000 would be about a 46% paycut...
I'll let y'all know how it pans out. Thanks again for your advice.
We are seeking a Secretary (CAD drafting experience is a plus) for full-time work. Qualified candidates will be contacted.
About position: Work Mon thru Fri 8:30am - 5pm, 1/2 hr lunch (8 hr day). Working hours may vary depending on project requirements. Candidater equired to have a car and travel.
Compensation: $12 per hour.
Candidate will manage projects, perform site visits, create drawings, answer phones, and perform clerical work.
About us: Small structural engineering firm. We have an increasing amount of work and plan to expand rapidly. We specialize in temporary structures and construction management.
charlotte240 i feel your pain. my resume isn't some intern's (no offense to interns) and i've never had so much trouble landing interviews before. we've decided that if we have to we'll move our little family to a more affordable place and closer to family. i don't want to leave the DC area... but the market here is just saturated with ridiculously experienced people (20+ years) who are willing to take $50k/year jobs. and it seems like every few weeks another firm is laying off 5 people here or 10 people there. and DC is just getting to the point where it's too expensive for normal people to live. i'm disappointed and i too want to cry. i'm trying to maintain some hope though...
The firms are in San Fran Bay Area. The advise I would have to give is always address your cover letter to someone that works at the firm. If they don't list a name, figure out a way to find out. If they don't list the firm on the ad, don't apply. Customize as much as possible. I applied to over 60 firms in 6 weeks. I did so because I figured in this climate I might hear back from at least 4 firms after 100 apps, and may get an interview at 2 of them. hope that helps.
just wondering... how long from when you sent out resumes/applied to the 60 firms to when you heard back? i went on a rampage last week and applied to a lot of places (all which i'm qualified for) and i'm wondering how long before i hear back.
"Amazing and well established photographer needs contractor to build a new studio add on. Sorry no pay but I will tell all my photographer friends about your work if it's good.
I can also offer you exposure in our neighborhood. Everyone else that lives here has jobs where people actually pay them and don't ask for free shit.
It's an upper class residence with lawyers, doctors and cops. They all have paychecks because most of them are my PAYING clients. So when you're done I can have them over and show what a great job you did.
I might even take pictures of you while you work and I'd be happy to let you license those photos for your own personal website for a small reduced fee. You see that's how we earn a living. We license our work for a fee not Free I know they look so close FREE and FEE but I assure you it's FEE.
Anyway if your interested I'd love to get started immediately. I need this done before the wedding season kicks in to high gear. Thank you for reading my post. "
: you know what fellas, if you read the ad carefully, you gotta think this is tongue-in-cheek. I'm betting this was an ad placed in a contractor's magazine by a photographer who got some images ripped off (probably stolen off the internet) by a contractor.
Those people should go F themselves... I love how architects make less than the uys at Star Bucks... if they even make anything at all! WTF! Luckily I just dished out a ton of money to get my MArch and then oh joy couldn't get a job! Last year I applied for over 60 teaching positions and I actually went to a kickass grad school... and yes I had 1 interview. Thousands of dollars that I didn't have spent on sending out my portfolio to these schools which five years ago would have hired me in a heartbeat. Now I need to have my Phd, be published, have an established body of research and teaching expereince... these days it is pretty difficult to catch a break... luckily after not working for about 18 months I landed a gig... and yes I am making less money than I made in my very first job at a Star architects firm in 2003... but alas things are getting better right? It is all going to turn around within the next year and all I can say to those of you that aren't working now... ENJOY IT!!! I had the time of my life last summer with all my unemployed architect friends, and this summer I am going to miss every minute that I spent at the lake last year!!!
I certaintly don't enjoy my unemployment by the lake, because I have hundreds of phone calls from collection agencies from Sallie Mae and from other debts. They think I am hiding money under a mattress or something, they don't understand the word "unemployed" with $400 a week rent money only... F@#$king 2005 law under Bush, forbids student loans from getting discharged in bankruptcy, now all my life is ruined because of Sallie Mae...
yeah, i know someone who recently (a few weeks ago) got hired at the chicago office....this reminds me of something i have been wondering. do firms put up/purposely leave up job ads on their sites to maintain an air of doing well/having work?
the ads are probably still on the website smithgroup site because they laid off the person that updates the website. Either way that article is a pure train wreck from a PR point of view... we have a lot of eggs in this basket WTF? who is running that place?
a friend at SOM NY recently got laid off --he lasted about 6-8 weeks. About 10 others there were also laid off, 3 weeks ago. Meanwhile, they have 2 ads for looking for new employees now... My friend had over 10 years experience post-college...
Nobody here's going to want to hear this, but IMO the marketplace for new projects is changing for a lot of firms. When we're able to secure a new project, we're finding that the mix of experience and skills that made up our staff 18-24 months ago no longer may be appropriate for the work activities confronting us now. So, yes ... it's entirely practical that a firm might be laying off and hiring staff at the same time in this peculiar economy.
sometimes a business owner will "lay off" a new employee who just is not working out. We have done this a couple of times. It is a nice way of getting rid (for the employee- much less stigma of getting laid of than fired...) of them but not contesting unemployment.
Several times we have been running an ad for someone to replace the person we are "laying off" because they did not meet our expectations. I am not saying that is the case with your friend, but it happens. Firms are not necessarily evil.
When we're able to secure a new project, we're finding that the mix of experience and skills that made up our staff 18-24 months ago no longer may be appropriate for the work activities confronting us now.
comb - I understand what you are saying but in the better times I didn't hear about firms churning staff with each new project landed. Staff Architects were expected to switch gears and be skilled at whatever was on the table. All the time I would go from doing retail to corporate office to K-12 education, etc. Small and mid-sized firms thrived on their "multi-tasking" abilities.
I think a lot of the current staff churn with type of project is because the job pool allows it. Three years ago you couldn't find an applicant with specalized experience on a moments notice. More or less, a lot of managers are taking advantage of the situation at hand. Maybe this is providing better service to the client, but IMO short sighted for the long term health of staff morale.
... for us, it's not a 'project by project' thing ... it's more fundmental than that. At our firm, we've gone from an operating environment designed to tackle fairly large, fairly long-lasting new-build projects with decent fees to one where - to survive - we must take on small, quick-turnaround, low-fee, maintenance and renovation projects - mostly of a different building type than has been our historical norm. Some of our people could adapt - some could not. Essentially, we've been forced into rebuilding substantial portions of our practice with new skills and different attitudes. It's been painful as hell.
... for us, it's not a 'project by project' thing ... it's more fundmental than that. At our firm, we've gone from an operating environment designed to tackle fairly large, fairly long-lasting new-build projects with decent fees to one where - to survive - we must take on small, quick-turnaround, low-fee, maintenance and renovation projects - mostly of a different building type than has been our historical norm. Some of our people could adapt - some could not. Essentially, we've been forced into rebuilding substantial portions of our practice with new skills and different attitudes. It's been painful as hell.
Shanghai market is not as good as, say, three years ago, but it's still much better than the US. Of course if you are willing to go to smaller cities, you'll find more chances.
I can only tell you that the salary for a Chinese undergraduate with no previous working experience is about 65,000yuan/Y. 1 USD= 6.8 yuan. Experienced architects earn much more.
I'm not an Architect, but I do hire them occasionally, so I wish to add encouragement to hang in there. The commercial vacancy rates have just started to show promise in DC - maybe light at the end of the tunnel, then again maybe a locomotive headlight?
What industry are you in govman? Just curious to see what avenues are still available outside of standard architecture industry. Traditionally fall-backs like animation, construction management and other related design fields are struggling just as much as we are.
Dots&dashes, I'm in the public sector doing facility management. But it seems politics may be an avenue since both politicians and their friends seem to be thriving right now. Both Bill Clinton & Sarah Palin make way more from speaking engagements than they ever did as public servants. ????
politicians and their friends seem to be thriving right now
Do note that it's very difficult to get into politics. I know a business owner who has tried to break into state politics on several occasions. Even though this individual is easily a millionaire several times over fundraising is vital. He's said he could spend his entire fortune and still come in third behind better known names.
I'd think if you have enough friends in high places to get you into politics you could easily have a thriving architectural practice and stay out of the sewer that is politics in this nation.
"stay out of the sewer that is politics in this nation"
Perhaps just what we need to get us out of the sewer of politics is more architects in politics. I can't think of a single one at the moment. Any come to mind?
The firm I worked at in a large metro area in Florida during the middle of the decade, one of the architects was the mayor of a small beach community. Does that count?
I was fresh out of college and new to the area, so I had no real basis to compare his performance with past mayors. Mostly when local politics and policy were discussed the context was state/city. The beach was a pretty big tourist spot, so there was no real issue with up-keep/lack of tax money/funding for public projects. And while we never did any work in within his boundary, there were quite a few public projects we designed in the neighboring communities. This mayor was working full time also, so it seemed like the beach pretty much was on auto-pilot.
I think a position on a city council in a larger city would be about limits of what an architect could handle while working full time. You could be there to rub elbows, get your name out, and steer policy in the direction you see fit (as long as its in line with the direction you promised the voters).
If one was to run for public office, it seems like the time to do it would be early in the career, when they can reap the benefits of name recognition/contacts or after retirement if you're not a middle ground kinda person and could rub some influential people the wrong way.
Apparently, firms are now doing "Strategic" hires - where they lay off people who aren't 'perfect' and hire others who are 'just right' for specific jobs (mostly quick turn-around small stuff).
Most likely, that's what we're seeing now coming down the pike. It's amazing that firms are having to do this - seems counter productive, but that's what the market is now forcing them to do. Does anyone remember previous downturns where this sort of thing was going on? I sure don't. Still, I do hold out hope that the clouds will indeed part....
govman - there are several architects i can think of: here in georgia, eric johnson (a registered architect) is running for governor this year. i hate his policy positions, but he was president of the senate here for many years and has a huge war chest. very well could win.
out in salt lake, my friend soren simonsen, who is a partner in a midsize firm there, is on the salt lake city council. he's very involved with politics out there (on a local level more, but still).
from way back, harvey gantt tried to run for governor of virginia a couple of times and was mayor of charlottesville.
and finally, charles clary, an architect in destin, fl served in the florida senate for a number of years not to long ago.
just a small list from my own knowledge. i'm sure there are many others.
Layoffs....layoffs......
med. - as always, you go off the deep end anytime you sense the slightest hint that maybe an employer isn't willing to open up his wallet and throw money at a qualified candidate.
more than likely, what the employer was saying to charlotte is "to me, your services are worth only $____ to our firm at this particular time, given the low fees we're experiencing in the marketplace" That's a far cry from defining, and insulting, charlotte's worth.
I expect when times are hard, you've probably said to yourself --- "hmmmm, you know what, I just don't need to be spending $25 for a haircut. maybe I'll find somebody to cut my hair for $15". That doesn't mean your original barber is only "worth" $15 ... it means that a haircut (a service) is worth only $15 to you at that particular point in time.
while I'm sympathetic with the way the interview made charlotte feel, the story doesn't necessarily mean the employer was trying to cheat or humiliate charlotte. times are hard and we all have to make hard decisions. sometimes those decisions lead to discomfort.
simply saying that an employer ought to pay higher wages doesn't make it possible for the employer to do so.
also, at the interview, he showed me a letter/job offer he sent to a guy with 12 years experience, it was for $53,000.
: first, I think you have to decide how badly you need, or want, this particular position. if it's really important to you, decide what compensation level you really would be willing to accept.
second, you don't exactly say whether they offered you the job at $40k. If they did, it's certainly worth your time to make a reasonable counteroffer. I think it entirely appropriate to let the firm know that you'd consider something in the general range of the number you decide on above in the first paragraph. However, I personally think it unlikely they'll consider jumping from $40k to, say, $60k.
If you're not willing or able to work at a level considerably below your expectations, then I would tell the firm politely that you're going to keep looking for a situation that's a better fit ... and then just do that. You always are free to set your own price for your services.
charlotte240
I agree that this is not about your worth. What you have described are negotiating tactics. If you need the job, I would suggest that you crunch some numbers. At your last salary you were probably taking home around $4500 per month. Figure out what you need to live on and give yourself some wiggle room.
You don't have to accept his first offer, you can counter. He most likely would not have spent three hours with you if he wasn't interested in your work...unless he was a total narcissist and the interview was all about him.
So he showed you a job offer from somebody else with more experience. You don't know this person, you don't know their background, you don't know their financial situation and you don't know if the guy was being truthful or not.
Also, the jobs bill is ready for Obama's signature. If you are presently unemployed your future employer does not have to contribute the 6.2% of your Social Security throughout the rest of the year. If he employs you for a full year he gets an additional $1000. Use that as part of your negotiations.
I know it's hard to do, but take the emotion out of it. Think of this as a temporary move until things improve.
thanks for the help, folks.
It was unnerving for me to have a 3 hour interview and come out of it feeling like shit.
The interviewer was somewhat narcissistic in his interview method, but a very good talker and listener as well. I watched as he showed me 20 *what-they-teach-you-in-school-not-to-design* projects, and then 20 that were not too bad. At this point, it's not all about that though...
I hope he spent that extra time with me for a reason.
Also, I submitted my resume to the help wanted ad @ 3:56pm last week. The same day, at 4:06pm, I recieved a call where we spoke for 1 hr. 20min. I hope this is because he was bluffing and saw that I had potential.
I wouldn't be so upset with a 25% paycut, ((from 73,250 to 55,000))but that is all I can afford to take at this time. For me to take 40,000 would be about a 46% paycut...
I'll let y'all know how it pans out. Thanks again for your advice.
check out this ad, $12 an hour:
We are seeking a Secretary (CAD drafting experience is a plus) for full-time work. Qualified candidates will be contacted.
About position: Work Mon thru Fri 8:30am - 5pm, 1/2 hr lunch (8 hr day). Working hours may vary depending on project requirements. Candidater equired to have a car and travel.
Compensation: $12 per hour.
Candidate will manage projects, perform site visits, create drawings, answer phones, and perform clerical work.
About us: Small structural engineering firm. We have an increasing amount of work and plan to expand rapidly. We specialize in temporary structures and construction management.
charlotte240 i feel your pain. my resume isn't some intern's (no offense to interns) and i've never had so much trouble landing interviews before. we've decided that if we have to we'll move our little family to a more affordable place and closer to family. i don't want to leave the DC area... but the market here is just saturated with ridiculously experienced people (20+ years) who are willing to take $50k/year jobs. and it seems like every few weeks another firm is laying off 5 people here or 10 people there. and DC is just getting to the point where it's too expensive for normal people to live. i'm disappointed and i too want to cry. i'm trying to maintain some hope though...
did we lose a bunch of post on that firm in London that was trying to take advantage of desperate interns?
oh my bad, there it is. I still want to know if any of these "Architects" are speaking at universities in the US.
.._. .._ _._. _._ ,
The firms are in San Fran Bay Area. The advise I would have to give is always address your cover letter to someone that works at the firm. If they don't list a name, figure out a way to find out. If they don't list the firm on the ad, don't apply. Customize as much as possible. I applied to over 60 firms in 6 weeks. I did so because I figured in this climate I might hear back from at least 4 firms after 100 apps, and may get an interview at 2 of them. hope that helps.
rollin0219
just wondering... how long from when you sent out resumes/applied to the 60 firms to when you heard back? i went on a rampage last week and applied to a lot of places (all which i'm qualified for) and i'm wondering how long before i hear back.
It is sad to see this ad...
Contractor Needed:
"Amazing and well established photographer needs contractor to build a new studio add on. Sorry no pay but I will tell all my photographer friends about your work if it's good.
I can also offer you exposure in our neighborhood. Everyone else that lives here has jobs where people actually pay them and don't ask for free shit.
It's an upper class residence with lawyers, doctors and cops. They all have paychecks because most of them are my PAYING clients. So when you're done I can have them over and show what a great job you did.
I might even take pictures of you while you work and I'd be happy to let you license those photos for your own personal website for a small reduced fee. You see that's how we earn a living. We license our work for a fee not Free I know they look so close FREE and FEE but I assure you it's FEE.
Anyway if your interested I'd love to get started immediately. I need this done before the wedding season kicks in to high gear. Thank you for reading my post. "
sandiego,
I feel tempted to contact that person and tell him to go fuck himself.
: you know what fellas, if you read the ad carefully, you gotta think this is tongue-in-cheek. I'm betting this was an ad placed in a contractor's magazine by a photographer who got some images ripped off (probably stolen off the internet) by a contractor.
Those people should go F themselves... I love how architects make less than the uys at Star Bucks... if they even make anything at all! WTF! Luckily I just dished out a ton of money to get my MArch and then oh joy couldn't get a job! Last year I applied for over 60 teaching positions and I actually went to a kickass grad school... and yes I had 1 interview. Thousands of dollars that I didn't have spent on sending out my portfolio to these schools which five years ago would have hired me in a heartbeat. Now I need to have my Phd, be published, have an established body of research and teaching expereince... these days it is pretty difficult to catch a break... luckily after not working for about 18 months I landed a gig... and yes I am making less money than I made in my very first job at a Star architects firm in 2003... but alas things are getting better right? It is all going to turn around within the next year and all I can say to those of you that aren't working now... ENJOY IT!!! I had the time of my life last summer with all my unemployed architect friends, and this summer I am going to miss every minute that I spent at the lake last year!!!
I certaintly don't enjoy my unemployment by the lake, because I have hundreds of phone calls from collection agencies from Sallie Mae and from other debts. They think I am hiding money under a mattress or something, they don't understand the word "unemployed" with $400 a week rent money only... F@#$king 2005 law under Bush, forbids student loans from getting discharged in bankruptcy, now all my life is ruined because of Sallie Mae...
I just heard Smithgroup in dc laid off a bunch of people. Is there anybody here that can confirm if is true?
First layoffs locally that I've heard of in awhile...
And yet several job openings posted on their site, both in the DC office and elsewhere.
yeah, i know someone who recently (a few weeks ago) got hired at the chicago office....this reminds me of something i have been wondering. do firms put up/purposely leave up job ads on their sites to maintain an air of doing well/having work?
the ads are probably still on the website smithgroup site because they laid off the person that updates the website. Either way that article is a pure train wreck from a PR point of view... we have a lot of eggs in this basket WTF? who is running that place?
a friend at SOM NY recently got laid off --he lasted about 6-8 weeks. About 10 others there were also laid off, 3 weeks ago. Meanwhile, they have 2 ads for looking for new employees now... My friend had over 10 years experience post-college...
?
I've heard of several local offices looking at "strategic" hires while they are still shedding staff.
Nobody here's going to want to hear this, but IMO the marketplace for new projects is changing for a lot of firms. When we're able to secure a new project, we're finding that the mix of experience and skills that made up our staff 18-24 months ago no longer may be appropriate for the work activities confronting us now. So, yes ... it's entirely practical that a firm might be laying off and hiring staff at the same time in this peculiar economy.
sometimes a business owner will "lay off" a new employee who just is not working out. We have done this a couple of times. It is a nice way of getting rid (for the employee- much less stigma of getting laid of than fired...) of them but not contesting unemployment.
Several times we have been running an ad for someone to replace the person we are "laying off" because they did not meet our expectations. I am not saying that is the case with your friend, but it happens. Firms are not necessarily evil.
Firms are not necessarily evil, except SOM...
Anyone ever thought of moving to a different country?
I'm in Shanghai，China. Every architect willing to work can find a decent job. Even undergraduate students get part time jobs.
Plenty of things to build in China....
comb - I understand what you are saying but in the better times I didn't hear about firms churning staff with each new project landed. Staff Architects were expected to switch gears and be skilled at whatever was on the table. All the time I would go from doing retail to corporate office to K-12 education, etc. Small and mid-sized firms thrived on their "multi-tasking" abilities.
I think a lot of the current staff churn with type of project is because the job pool allows it. Three years ago you couldn't find an applicant with specalized experience on a moments notice. More or less, a lot of managers are taking advantage of the situation at hand. Maybe this is providing better service to the client, but IMO short sighted for the long term health of staff morale.
@mint, seriously?
I heard Shanghai market was tough. Much easier anywhere else in China.
What about salaries btw?
... for us, it's not a 'project by project' thing ... it's more fundmental than that. At our firm, we've gone from an operating environment designed to tackle fairly large, fairly long-lasting new-build projects with decent fees to one where - to survive - we must take on small, quick-turnaround, low-fee, maintenance and renovation projects - mostly of a different building type than has been our historical norm. Some of our people could adapt - some could not. Essentially, we've been forced into rebuilding substantial portions of our practice with new skills and different attitudes. It's been painful as hell.
... for us, it's not a 'project by project' thing ... it's more fundmental than that. At our firm, we've gone from an operating environment designed to tackle fairly large, fairly long-lasting new-build projects with decent fees to one where - to survive - we must take on small, quick-turnaround, low-fee, maintenance and renovation projects - mostly of a different building type than has been our historical norm. Some of our people could adapt - some could not. Essentially, we've been forced into rebuilding substantial portions of our practice with new skills and different attitudes. It's been painful as hell.
Hawkin,
Shanghai market is not as good as, say, three years ago, but it's still much better than the US. Of course if you are willing to go to smaller cities, you'll find more chances.
I can only tell you that the salary for a Chinese undergraduate with no previous working experience is about 65,000yuan/Y. 1 USD= 6.8 yuan. Experienced architects earn much more.
65,000yuan/Y. 1 USD= 6.8 yuan , thats about $10k per year, is it possible to survive in china for $10k/ per year?
Zenmaker, you can always live here to save:
http://www.chinahush.com/2010/04/01/capsule-apartment-appears-in-beijing-2-square-meters-each/
http://www.chinahush.com/2010/04/09/young-girl-becomes-first-tenant-of-capsule-apartment/
At 36 USD a month, it is a bargain!
I'm not an Architect, but I do hire them occasionally, so I wish to add encouragement to hang in there. The commercial vacancy rates have just started to show promise in DC - maybe light at the end of the tunnel, then again maybe a locomotive headlight?
For the good, bad, & ugly see: http://www.ibtimes.com/contents/20100405/office-vacancy-rate-hits-16-high.htm
What industry are you in govman? Just curious to see what avenues are still available outside of standard architecture industry. Traditionally fall-backs like animation, construction management and other related design fields are struggling just as much as we are.
Dots&dashes, I'm in the public sector doing facility management. But it seems politics may be an avenue since both politicians and their friends seem to be thriving right now. Both Bill Clinton & Sarah Palin make way more from speaking engagements than they ever did as public servants. ????
Do note that it's very difficult to get into politics. I know a business owner who has tried to break into state politics on several occasions. Even though this individual is easily a millionaire several times over fundraising is vital. He's said he could spend his entire fortune and still come in third behind better known names.
I'd think if you have enough friends in high places to get you into politics you could easily have a thriving architectural practice and stay out of the sewer that is politics in this nation.
"stay out of the sewer that is politics in this nation"
Perhaps just what we need to get us out of the sewer of politics is more architects in politics. I can't think of a single one at the moment. Any come to mind?
The firm I worked at in a large metro area in Florida during the middle of the decade, one of the architects was the mayor of a small beach community. Does that count?
Counts in my book. How did he do as Mayor? Did the experience encourage or discourage you?
I was fresh out of college and new to the area, so I had no real basis to compare his performance with past mayors. Mostly when local politics and policy were discussed the context was state/city. The beach was a pretty big tourist spot, so there was no real issue with up-keep/lack of tax money/funding for public projects. And while we never did any work in within his boundary, there were quite a few public projects we designed in the neighboring communities. This mayor was working full time also, so it seemed like the beach pretty much was on auto-pilot.
I think a position on a city council in a larger city would be about limits of what an architect could handle while working full time. You could be there to rub elbows, get your name out, and steer policy in the direction you see fit (as long as its in line with the direction you promised the voters).
If one was to run for public office, it seems like the time to do it would be early in the career, when they can reap the benefits of name recognition/contacts or after retirement if you're not a middle ground kinda person and could rub some influential people the wrong way.
Note to Piggy: wait till after you retire to run for public office.
Note to everyone else: See previous page for context.
perhaps this thread has come full circle. it started with bbg new york laying off twenty. now bbg is hiring.
have we weathered the storm and are now seeing the clouds part just a little?
Apparently, firms are now doing "Strategic" hires - where they lay off people who aren't 'perfect' and hire others who are 'just right' for specific jobs (mostly quick turn-around small stuff).
Most likely, that's what we're seeing now coming down the pike. It's amazing that firms are having to do this - seems counter productive, but that's what the market is now forcing them to do. Does anyone remember previous downturns where this sort of thing was going on? I sure don't. Still, I do hold out hope that the clouds will indeed part....
govman - there are several architects i can think of: here in georgia, eric johnson (a registered architect) is running for governor this year. i hate his policy positions, but he was president of the senate here for many years and has a huge war chest. very well could win.
out in salt lake, my friend soren simonsen, who is a partner in a midsize firm there, is on the salt lake city council. he's very involved with politics out there (on a local level more, but still).
from way back, harvey gantt tried to run for governor of virginia a couple of times and was mayor of charlottesville.
and finally, charles clary, an architect in destin, fl served in the florida senate for a number of years not to long ago.
just a small list from my own knowledge. i'm sure there are many others.
(sorry, not trying to derail the thread. glad to see some people hiring...)
outed: as a gentle fyi, harvey gantt lives and works in Charlotte, NC
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