hi all - I was laid off back in September and had been doing contract work for a few months. The contract work has dried up and now I've been bugging all my contacts - it's pretty tough out there.
anyway - I really appreciate all the warm thoughts and encouragement to those of us who are struggling right now.
I've been watching this post build since October, and unfortunately have news to add. I'm with a small/med size firm (around 40 now) that cut 8 last year. The past couple months have been a struggle and we've all been waiting for the next round of layoffs. Today one more was let go and everyone else took a salary reduction of 20%. They're hoping to hunker down and ride things out with no more layoffs, but I'm not too optimistic.
Other news - smaller, award winning firm of a dozen folks doing religious and municipal work has associates down to 50% salary and the local branch of P+W cut 8 folks a week or so ago.
Best of luck to all out there looking or working on what feels like borrowed time. I'm proud to be part of this community.
Mass emailing for a job may work in better times. Best way is to write a personal letter (have it vetted by your English teacher - spell check too! This is not meant to be condescending). Write it on decent paper and not the xerox crap. Ditto for the resume. Pique their curiosity be including a CD of some of your work. Include design and production. If you haven't any construction photos, take some now. Make an interesting pictogram for the label on your CDs. Show prospective employers you are creative and innovative. Indicate in your letter you will telephone in a few days, and do so. Ask questions. If they do not have any positions, ask what they thought of your resume and experience. If possible, get a critique. Better, see if they can refer you to other firms.
You have to position yourself above the competition and it requires hard work.
I might be dreaming but it seems that there are jobs popping up online again. I suggest checking local AIA job boards first. This might be a strategic thing since a nationally advertised Internship position might result in a flooded email In box and a mountain of hardcopies. Shop locally things might be on a bit of an upswing. Spring in coming
pjn26 - I've noticed this also...just in the last week or so. URS posted a nice profit last quarter (i don't know how). I think some of the larger A/E firms are starting to ramp up again with the US stimulus and now the Chinese stimulus.
Many of the architect positions with URS and other similar firms are in their construction management group.
When investigating this type of firm look into their subsidiaries. If you send then your resume it might be more direct and it may not get lost in the shuffle.
I think URS owns Greiner and Woodward-Clyde. Probably a whole bunch more.
Arcadis owns PinnacleOne and RTKL.
AECOM owns DMJM, EDAW, Spillis Candela and a whole bunch of others.
That happened here too a couple of weeks ago. I don't know why they would do that.. its not like project files aren't backed up every night or there's a serious risk someone's going to go on a model-smashing rampage, and it certainly isn't like anyone getting laid off would conceivably be able to get a job elsewhere in sufficient time to use confidential info to compete for a bid or to steal work.
These "you will be escorted out" firms need to get a clue and start behaving like they're actually run by humans. I once worked at a firm that let laid off people work on their own laptops at their desks for weeks while they figured out what to do next (this was right after that sharp downtown after 9/11)... it was very civilized and people left a lot happier.
Some people we had to let go were given their laptops to take away, as well as the data for projects they had worked on, so it would be helpful for them to look for a job. We changed/deleted their usernames on the server, as well as their VPN access codes....
regarding the server access... that only makes sense... it would be quite awful if a bottle of merlot killed a project that was keeping other architects employed.
While I would never condone the type of corporate behavior desscribed in Archmed's story, I can understand why some firm's gravitate to such tight-assed procedures. Over the course of my own career, I've had a few bizarre situations arise after letting people go, such as:
One architect we terminated for poor performance returned to his desk to gather his stuff, proceeded to bad-mouth the firm to anybody who would listen, sent 10-12 snarky e-mails to outside people he had been working with on the project team, made no effort to start sorting through his stuff and clearly was in no hurry to leave. Finally, when I got a call from our client wondering what the hell was going on, I had this guy's e-mail shut down, I went back to his booth and told him that he had 15-minutes to finish gathering his things, and I stood there the entire time to make sure nothing else happened, and then escorted him to the door myself.
Another time, we found it necessary to terminate an administrative employee who had been gossiping blatantly about other members of the staff. After she was terminated, she went back to her desk and started mouthing off to other membrs of her department off about how she was going to get her gun out of her car and start shooting people. We had the police come escort her off the premises and obtained a restraining order to keep her from ever returning to the premises.
Crazy ass stuff like this really happens and some firms have experienced worse. It is an unfortunate fact of life that many, if not most, rules are established to protect against the 0.05% who might do crazy things. It's damned inconvenient for the other 99.95% who know how to act in a professional manner.
I worked for a firm in NYC in SoHo that has gradually cut 50 jobs, out of the 70 employees there in 6 months time. At one point the firm had a meeting and said all our jobs were secure, and not to worry, but then they began layoffs, systematically, a few each week since July 2008,
I am wondering when Archinect and the president of the AIA will address this as an emergency situation. The AIA president seemed to dismiss the urgency of this situation, saying, "it is just a bump in the road --things will clear up and return to normal by June." It does not seem to be the case, and things are getting progressively worse.
There seems to be no end to this. I have applied to over 300 jobs since being laid off in summer 2008. There must be many many architects without work out there, it is tough to even score an interview. I have 6 years experience in NYC with some prestigious firms, and work a variety of computer programs, and still nothing. I imagine that more experienced architects are offering to work for a lower wage. Many of my architect/engineer friends have lost jobs as well, or have been cut in salary by 20%.
At what point in my life will I have to resort to stealing things and robbing people just to stay fed and pay the rent? This is what goes through my mind right now. My hope is starting to fade, and I feel my morals will disappear soon as well...
: what, pray tell, do you think Archinect or the AIA President might do -- neither has anything remotely resembling political or economic power.
This is Herbert Hoover Bush's legacy, abetted by Republicans in the Congress. President Obama and a Democratic Congress inherited this mess and, it seems to me, are doing all that they can do to right the leaky ship. However, it's still going to take some time -- I fear that we've not yet reached the bottom.
As hard as it might seem, you need to find a way to survive, even if it means taking work outside your field or work you consider beneath your dignity. Keep your head, make judicious decisions and you're likely to be all right. Good luck.
AIA, NCARB, NAAB excreta need to stop allowing any more students admittance to M-arch and B-arch programs until the industry has absorbed the hundreds if not thousands of unemployed architects and intern Architects. The education needs to be trimmed down by half so that supply meets demand. Lately accredited programs have been growing with out limits. There is a reason doctors are well paid and that is the absolute control the AMA has over each and every college of medicine in the US. We need the same for Architecture.
PJN26.. I agree. AIA (and APA) need to stop acting like marketing organizations and more like professional guilds, like the AMA and ABA do. Stop accrediting new programs and lobby to tighten restrictions on what people outside of their respective systems are allowed to do. I'm sorry, I know this may sound unfair, but times are tough, and I for one would like to see more leadership from the organizations to which we are dutiful dues-paying members.
I think that the proposal about limiting the "supply" or architectural talent is horribly misguided and VERY counter-productive.
We eat our young. We eat our young. Repeat it after me: We eat our young!
We do so because it is profitable and easy, and it keeps things as they've always been. This is wrong, restricting accreditation will only make this "injustice" worse.
The fact that the American architectural community has not come up with an answer to the "you're not an architect, intern!" speaks volumes.
We already have a class system within architecture, and it is utterly irrepressible. Unlicensed architects are typically treated as a commodity by firms. Turning the taps off won't actually change anything, other than bring draftspeople and other with no ambition to get licensed into the mix.
We should consider the fresh faces as colleagues. Practically every other profession recognizes that the new graduates are also fellow professionals (lawyers, dentists, et. al).
Please not that I am not making a case for making license obsolete. This is purely about standing within the profession, not life safety and the public trust.
It takes initiative, perseverance and luck to cross the chasm into license, and doing so requires way more than the 3 years of IDP as we are initialy told. In practice it is more like five to ten (at least this has been my observation in the big city/big firm environment). Usually this is without sincere support from superiors. After all, how are their interests furthered by you having AIA after your name?
This is a bit of a rant, sorry. But the idea that snapping out fingers and creating a cartel will solve anything is silly. (sorry to be so critical)
It seems to me that "architects" are a very minor piece of the development and construction endeavor (a very small proportion of buildings are really driven by design). We (the whole profession, minus the Renzo Pianos) are treated as a commodity by the real decision makers just like we treat our young. The clients say "draw, or else I'll just hire the next guy" and we pass that exact same attitude down.
I propose that what an "architect" is needs some serious rethinking. We are the professionals charged with having the broadest perspective. In technical terms we are supposed to conduct the engineers' and consultant's efforts, but we are also charged with issues of social responsibility, community and on and on. An engineer is primarily concerned with "answering" a specific problem. A developer, even if he is the driving force is driven primarily by the profit motive.
We are the ones supposed to be that channel that guides a client to do the right thing, but in reality we are also interchangeable specialists. A lawyer or accountant can be a client's trusted resource, getting them or keeping them out of trouble. We are not in such a position, I mean, most of us can't even speak their language.
How much finance is taught in the typical architectural curriculum? Most colleagues of mine have no idea or curiosity about the most fundamental mechanisms that effect the projects they are working on. The know whether a project is "on hold" or "on "fast track," but not what a proforma is or how their drawings and area tables fit into that puzzle. Too bad. I guess we are above it.
In reality, we don't speak the industry's language because we are too noble for it.
All right. That was quite a rant. Sorry about that guys, I just had to get it out.
I used to work for SOM, and some of my friends work for SOM currently, and the SOM office in San Francisco has cut staff by 25%. The NY office has cut around 30-40% of staff...
I have no idea how the DC office is doing.
there are layoffs in the NY office every week since Sept. , people are scared for their lives over there every day they go to work.
:A lawyer or accountant can be a client's trusted resource, getting them or keeping them out of trouble. We are not in such a position, I mean, most of us can't even speak their language.
Great point. While I really don't get all this "we eat our young" talk, I do believe our profession's ills are largely self-inflicted and emerge from our dilletant tendencies. More often than not, we define our role, and ourselves, by narrow self-interest and selfish personal preference.
The client pays the bills, but we whine continually about how the client won't let us do what we want to do. I've never met a lawyer, doctor or accountant who brings such a silly narrow-minded attitude to work. No wonder we get no respect.
Whenever there are too many of any one thing, the commodity mentality kicks in. Unless, of course, the architect is a name an owner needs for a trophy project. Even then, the architect and design is commonly abused during the design and construction process.
Frankly, there are two many interns and architects for the market. IMHO, this has been the case since the late 1960s or early 1970s. Schools continue to crank out poorly skilled grads who know little more than their computer. The upside for these grads is that the same skills are marketable in many other industries. The best will stick it out and survive in architecture.
Years ago architecture was an elitist profession. Again, my opinion. The number of schools training architects was small. So was the market for their services. It was even possible for an architect to be licensed without formal training in school.
Schools are a business. Their job is to make money. Few, if any, view their mission as developing young men and women for the benefit of society. Teachers are idealogues .Largely, their positions in acedemia are more feathers in their caps. There is an old expression. "Those who can't do, teach." How much meaningful interaction is there with name architects in schools. They would better serve the profession through daily hands on contact with interns in their offices.That is, if they could get work.
AIA. Don't give a rat's ass. After over twenty years in architecture their role remains a mystery. Annual fee is egregious. Can someone point me to results? Has become mostly a guild allowing paid use of the AIA honorific.
Licensing. The current system is crazy. Seems like an attempt to milk interns for all they can. Basically, if you want to be an architect we want you for money. The old system of several exams in three days was better. Some may say the current system is necessary because architecture has become so complex. Duh!!! Seems like a failure of colleges and universities to me. How many students do schools actually weed out? How many schools prepare students for the realities of their career.
CEUs. Because there are so many poorly trained and unskilled individuals in the profession, this has become necessary. We meet young architects almost daily who upon receiving their ticket believe they are ready to open their own offices. Many haven't a clue how to do construction drawings or buildings are constructed.
It has always been the responsibility of architects to maintain proficiency in the latest skills and be knowledgeable of the latest trends necessary for them to do their job. That is why architecture is considered a profession. Too many architects are trying to do too many things.
We may need different classes of license. Drivers licenses are a good example.Civil engineers are allowed to do structural design for many buildings. Only structural engineers are licensed to design structures over a certain heights. Certifications allowing architects to do houses, smaller commercial, interiors, high-rise, etc. may be the answer.
Look at the medical profession.
Too early in the morning. Too much coffee. Too much whining.
Suggestion for job seekers. Go to the website for most any major large EA firm and find their Careers page. You should register with them while you are there. Many have drop down menus asking you where you heard of their firm. Go there and write down all of these names. Most are job boards you never heard of. Google them. Get architecture out of your mind. You're a skilled professional who can do much more than the Type V condos or little commercial buildings you've been drawing for the past few years. You should soon discover a list of firms you may never knew existed. Most will not have positions for architects. Look for anything that mentions construction. After you have revised your resume to convince the world you are the greatest self-starter and most capable professional in the universe, write the President a personal letter and include your resume. Explain how your skills and training will benefit their organization. Be BOLD and courageous. All they can say is no and you've been there before.
Most doctors think their patients are stupid and don't take their advice (and they're probably right a lot of the time.) Lawyers don't complain about their clients? Maybe on Law & Order, but in the real world - I think not. Professionals spend their days learning processes which the average person doesn't think about or realize why certain pats of it are important to them. They won't and that's frankly why they need us. Build them the best building you can for them and move on.
Unlike doctors and lawyers there's just not a system imposing its will upon them (the law or disease) when they walk in our front door. That's a benefit if you think its the experience for growth, but a disadvantage if you want them indebted to you.
Sorry for the aside. Martini+1, just wanted to say, your last post was great. Enjoy your gin.
All real estate market sectors are absolutely saturated with unsold/unleased product. Institutional markets, with educational and medical sectors often considered "recession proof", are cutting their capital development budgets back drastically.
Real estate sector reports infer that client base for many architectural firms is rapidly disappearing, and will be gone for several years, at minimum, until absorption rates improve to make new development attractive again. Right now, those absorption rates are getting worse, not better.
Construction financing is extremely difficult. Many real estate developers and property owners can't refinance their properties as their short-term loans mature.
There are far more architects currently in job market than there are positions justified by firms' billings and remaining client base. Many architectural firms are unlikely to see a Stimulus Bill "bounce" in project volume. If an architect is laid-off or looking for a first job, it may be a multi-month period or longer until a reasonable job offer surfaces again. We are not in a recession; the entire real estate market is in crisis.
I agree that the RE sector is in crisis. I don't agree there are to many architects. in 2006 there were 250k people employed in architecture firms and 100; licenced architects. imho there are not enough of us. The billings for the year were 24 billion. the consteuction was something like 1 trillion. or 2.5 perecent of cost of construction.
As a profession we have ignored the common man for the corporation.
To remain relevant we need to lobby that all work needs to be submitted for a construction permit by a licenced architect -- ag buildings and houses included.
I have seen too many buildings desigend by contrators that have undersized beams and life safety issues up the wazu.
in my area, north lake county IL. only one town requires an architect for TI work, decks, 3- season rooms. over time we have established a relationship with the entire building dept. we asked to be put on a short list of local professionals for those who need help. We are often called to assist people in red tag.
As a profession, I wish we would get off our high horse and look to become a necessity and not a luxury.
maybe it's time for a new, 21st ct Bauhaus to appear...?
[url=http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,610283,00.html]"At the end of World War I, the German art world was frozen in a state of trauma. Those who had escaped the trenches alive were struggling to survive financially, and the future seemed politically charged and economically uncertain.
Then the Bauhaus arrived as a glimmer of hope."[/url]
Snook, you got me. All 1200 or so responses on this thread were really me. I just use about 30 or 40 different screen names. Basically everyone who has posted on this thread were just aliases of mine -- how very brilliant of you to make this discovery!
How can you tell if the architecture firm you work at is finacially responsible enough to be a stable place to work?
I have been part of a large layoff of more than 20 employees about 6 years ago at one of the largest architecture offices in my city. Now I am working at another one of the few large firms here. They seem to be doing pretty well and the office seems to be busy, but it also seemed busy at the other place when they mismanaged and had to layoff so many people.
..just a little concerned and hoping the bad economy doesn't hit the office I'm working in! What are the warning signs?
Honestly? Ive always found if the principles are always all sunshine and no bad news and every project is going to happen like NEXT WEEK - thats a sign. Hate to say it but companies that appear a lot stodgy, grumpy - almost mean - are in my experience sound.
And just for my own conscience....I am putting in extra concentration hopefully very noticeably stepping up my quality and speed of producing good cds.
lexi - it's impossible to say. the clearest sign is if you or your colleagues have no real workload being assigned to you or all of a sudden you're doing marketing one day...that's not a good sign.
word on the street that one of the large firms here is about to do another round of layoffs. not sure of the size, but their work just hasn't come back. i suspect someone will post the particulars here after it happens...
A good sign something is about to drop is when upper management starts having several out of the ordinary closed door meetings. Not just the typical Monday morning meeting.
Do have a bottle of this stashed away. If I'm let go it's coming out for at least one good bender.
With Layoffs looming is anyone out there doing their patriotic shopping to help keep the economy afloat? I do not foresee spending money on anything but, rent, debt and food. It is RDF all the way for now on.
Personally I don’t think I will ever buy a house unless I have cash in the bank to live in a city for two years. Renting might become a more important part of the economy in the coming years.
Is anyone working to change single family homes into rentals, possibly multiple family rentals? This involves getting variances and some complicated fire separation work done but it may be the fate of many a foreclosed home out there.
More office gossip. Grapevine tends to be accurate.
More office tension, more people seem nervous, unsettled, snappish.
Principals evade eye-contact and/or small talk, generally less available.
Principals huddled in conference room with door closed, worse if comptroller is in room too.
Closer scrutiny of time cards, tardiness, long lunches, web cruising, socializing chattiness on phone or in person; closer monitoring of inefficient entry-level and mid-level people.
Principals circulate confidentiality agreements, new policies regarding employees' rights related to personal portfolio preparation.
looks like we got bots up in here
hopefully the site admins will delete Internet55
don't go to the website this is a means to download spy-ware and other nasty stuff. and it is undermining th real sponsors of this website who pay for advertising.
Layoffs....layoffs......
I think I recognize every one of the people in the article from here on Archinect...
hi all - I was laid off back in September and had been doing contract work for a few months. The contract work has dried up and now I've been bugging all my contacts - it's pretty tough out there.
anyway - I really appreciate all the warm thoughts and encouragement to those of us who are struggling right now.
I've been watching this post build since October, and unfortunately have news to add. I'm with a small/med size firm (around 40 now) that cut 8 last year. The past couple months have been a struggle and we've all been waiting for the next round of layoffs. Today one more was let go and everyone else took a salary reduction of 20%. They're hoping to hunker down and ride things out with no more layoffs, but I'm not too optimistic.
Other news - smaller, award winning firm of a dozen folks doing religious and municipal work has associates down to 50% salary and the local branch of P+W cut 8 folks a week or so ago.
Best of luck to all out there looking or working on what feels like borrowed time. I'm proud to be part of this community.
Mass emailing for a job may work in better times. Best way is to write a personal letter (have it vetted by your English teacher - spell check too! This is not meant to be condescending). Write it on decent paper and not the xerox crap. Ditto for the resume. Pique their curiosity be including a CD of some of your work. Include design and production. If you haven't any construction photos, take some now. Make an interesting pictogram for the label on your CDs. Show prospective employers you are creative and innovative. Indicate in your letter you will telephone in a few days, and do so. Ask questions. If they do not have any positions, ask what they thought of your resume and experience. If possible, get a critique. Better, see if they can refer you to other firms.
You have to position yourself above the competition and it requires hard work.
Open your IDP File before you graduate so that you get the student discount. Might be worth mentioning what IDP units you have completed if any.
I might be dreaming but it seems that there are jobs popping up online again. I suggest checking local AIA job boards first. This might be a strategic thing since a nationally advertised Internship position might result in a flooded email In box and a mountain of hardcopies. Shop locally things might be on a bit of an upswing. Spring in coming
pjn26 - I've noticed this also...just in the last week or so. URS posted a nice profit last quarter (i don't know how). I think some of the larger A/E firms are starting to ramp up again with the US stimulus and now the Chinese stimulus.
Many of the architect positions with URS and other similar firms are in their construction management group.
When investigating this type of firm look into their subsidiaries. If you send then your resume it might be more direct and it may not get lost in the shuffle.
I think URS owns Greiner and Woodward-Clyde. Probably a whole bunch more.
Arcadis owns PinnacleOne and RTKL.
AECOM owns DMJM, EDAW, Spillis Candela and a whole bunch of others.
Archmed: "just leave the premises immediately"
That happened here too a couple of weeks ago. I don't know why they would do that.. its not like project files aren't backed up every night or there's a serious risk someone's going to go on a model-smashing rampage, and it certainly isn't like anyone getting laid off would conceivably be able to get a job elsewhere in sufficient time to use confidential info to compete for a bid or to steal work.
These "you will be escorted out" firms need to get a clue and start behaving like they're actually run by humans. I once worked at a firm that let laid off people work on their own laptops at their desks for weeks while they figured out what to do next (this was right after that sharp downtown after 9/11)... it was very civilized and people left a lot happier.
Some people we had to let go were given their laptops to take away, as well as the data for projects they had worked on, so it would be helpful for them to look for a job. We changed/deleted their usernames on the server, as well as their VPN access codes....
regarding the server access... that only makes sense... it would be quite awful if a bottle of merlot killed a project that was keeping other architects employed.
I heard Smith + Gill had another round of layoffs - like 20 more today. I think thats 3 rounds this year now.
While I would never condone the type of corporate behavior desscribed in Archmed's story, I can understand why some firm's gravitate to such tight-assed procedures. Over the course of my own career, I've had a few bizarre situations arise after letting people go, such as:
One architect we terminated for poor performance returned to his desk to gather his stuff, proceeded to bad-mouth the firm to anybody who would listen, sent 10-12 snarky e-mails to outside people he had been working with on the project team, made no effort to start sorting through his stuff and clearly was in no hurry to leave. Finally, when I got a call from our client wondering what the hell was going on, I had this guy's e-mail shut down, I went back to his booth and told him that he had 15-minutes to finish gathering his things, and I stood there the entire time to make sure nothing else happened, and then escorted him to the door myself.
Another time, we found it necessary to terminate an administrative employee who had been gossiping blatantly about other members of the staff. After she was terminated, she went back to her desk and started mouthing off to other membrs of her department off about how she was going to get her gun out of her car and start shooting people. We had the police come escort her off the premises and obtained a restraining order to keep her from ever returning to the premises.
Crazy ass stuff like this really happens and some firms have experienced worse. It is an unfortunate fact of life that many, if not most, rules are established to protect against the 0.05% who might do crazy things. It's damned inconvenient for the other 99.95% who know how to act in a professional manner.
I worked for a firm in NYC in SoHo that has gradually cut 50 jobs, out of the 70 employees there in 6 months time. At one point the firm had a meeting and said all our jobs were secure, and not to worry, but then they began layoffs, systematically, a few each week since July 2008,
I am wondering when Archinect and the president of the AIA will address this as an emergency situation. The AIA president seemed to dismiss the urgency of this situation, saying, "it is just a bump in the road --things will clear up and return to normal by June." It does not seem to be the case, and things are getting progressively worse.
There seems to be no end to this. I have applied to over 300 jobs since being laid off in summer 2008. There must be many many architects without work out there, it is tough to even score an interview. I have 6 years experience in NYC with some prestigious firms, and work a variety of computer programs, and still nothing. I imagine that more experienced architects are offering to work for a lower wage. Many of my architect/engineer friends have lost jobs as well, or have been cut in salary by 20%.
At what point in my life will I have to resort to stealing things and robbing people just to stay fed and pay the rent? This is what goes through my mind right now. My hope is starting to fade, and I feel my morals will disappear soon as well...
The best music is made by people with low morals - I wonder if the same is for architecture...
: what, pray tell, do you think Archinect or the AIA President might do -- neither has anything remotely resembling political or economic power.
This is Herbert Hoover Bush's legacy, abetted by Republicans in the Congress. President Obama and a Democratic Congress inherited this mess and, it seems to me, are doing all that they can do to right the leaky ship. However, it's still going to take some time -- I fear that we've not yet reached the bottom.
As hard as it might seem, you need to find a way to survive, even if it means taking work outside your field or work you consider beneath your dignity. Keep your head, make judicious decisions and you're likely to be all right. Good luck.
AIA, NCARB, NAAB excreta need to stop allowing any more students admittance to M-arch and B-arch programs until the industry has absorbed the hundreds if not thousands of unemployed architects and intern Architects. The education needs to be trimmed down by half so that supply meets demand. Lately accredited programs have been growing with out limits. There is a reason doctors are well paid and that is the absolute control the AMA has over each and every college of medicine in the US. We need the same for Architecture.
PJN26.. I agree. AIA (and APA) need to stop acting like marketing organizations and more like professional guilds, like the AMA and ABA do. Stop accrediting new programs and lobby to tighten restrictions on what people outside of their respective systems are allowed to do. I'm sorry, I know this may sound unfair, but times are tough, and I for one would like to see more leadership from the organizations to which we are dutiful dues-paying members.
Heard a rumor that SOM DC is shutting their doors. Can anyone confirm?
ARCHMED: DO YOU LIVE ON THIS THREAD? GET A LIFE!
I think that the proposal about limiting the "supply" or architectural talent is horribly misguided and VERY counter-productive.
We eat our young. We eat our young. Repeat it after me: We eat our young!
We do so because it is profitable and easy, and it keeps things as they've always been. This is wrong, restricting accreditation will only make this "injustice" worse.
The fact that the American architectural community has not come up with an answer to the "you're not an architect, intern!" speaks volumes.
We already have a class system within architecture, and it is utterly irrepressible. Unlicensed architects are typically treated as a commodity by firms. Turning the taps off won't actually change anything, other than bring draftspeople and other with no ambition to get licensed into the mix.
We should consider the fresh faces as colleagues. Practically every other profession recognizes that the new graduates are also fellow professionals (lawyers, dentists, et. al).
Please not that I am not making a case for making license obsolete. This is purely about standing within the profession, not life safety and the public trust.
It takes initiative, perseverance and luck to cross the chasm into license, and doing so requires way more than the 3 years of IDP as we are initialy told. In practice it is more like five to ten (at least this has been my observation in the big city/big firm environment). Usually this is without sincere support from superiors. After all, how are their interests furthered by you having AIA after your name?
This is a bit of a rant, sorry. But the idea that snapping out fingers and creating a cartel will solve anything is silly. (sorry to be so critical)
It seems to me that "architects" are a very minor piece of the development and construction endeavor (a very small proportion of buildings are really driven by design). We (the whole profession, minus the Renzo Pianos) are treated as a commodity by the real decision makers just like we treat our young. The clients say "draw, or else I'll just hire the next guy" and we pass that exact same attitude down.
I propose that what an "architect" is needs some serious rethinking. We are the professionals charged with having the broadest perspective. In technical terms we are supposed to conduct the engineers' and consultant's efforts, but we are also charged with issues of social responsibility, community and on and on. An engineer is primarily concerned with "answering" a specific problem. A developer, even if he is the driving force is driven primarily by the profit motive.
We are the ones supposed to be that channel that guides a client to do the right thing, but in reality we are also interchangeable specialists. A lawyer or accountant can be a client's trusted resource, getting them or keeping them out of trouble. We are not in such a position, I mean, most of us can't even speak their language.
How much finance is taught in the typical architectural curriculum? Most colleagues of mine have no idea or curiosity about the most fundamental mechanisms that effect the projects they are working on. The know whether a project is "on hold" or "on "fast track," but not what a proforma is or how their drawings and area tables fit into that puzzle. Too bad. I guess we are above it.
In reality, we don't speak the industry's language because we are too noble for it.
All right. That was quite a rant. Sorry about that guys, I just had to get it out.
I used to work for SOM, and some of my friends work for SOM currently, and the SOM office in San Francisco has cut staff by 25%. The NY office has cut around 30-40% of staff...
I have no idea how the DC office is doing.
there are layoffs in the NY office every week since Sept. , people are scared for their lives over there every day they go to work.
Here, here ExtrudeR! Well said.
:A lawyer or accountant can be a client's trusted resource, getting them or keeping them out of trouble. We are not in such a position, I mean, most of us can't even speak their language.
Great point. While I really don't get all this "we eat our young" talk, I do believe our profession's ills are largely self-inflicted and emerge from our dilletant tendencies. More often than not, we define our role, and ourselves, by narrow self-interest and selfish personal preference.
The client pays the bills, but we whine continually about how the client won't let us do what we want to do. I've never met a lawyer, doctor or accountant who brings such a silly narrow-minded attitude to work. No wonder we get no respect.
Whenever there are too many of any one thing, the commodity mentality kicks in. Unless, of course, the architect is a name an owner needs for a trophy project. Even then, the architect and design is commonly abused during the design and construction process.
Frankly, there are two many interns and architects for the market. IMHO, this has been the case since the late 1960s or early 1970s. Schools continue to crank out poorly skilled grads who know little more than their computer. The upside for these grads is that the same skills are marketable in many other industries. The best will stick it out and survive in architecture.
Years ago architecture was an elitist profession. Again, my opinion. The number of schools training architects was small. So was the market for their services. It was even possible for an architect to be licensed without formal training in school.
Schools are a business. Their job is to make money. Few, if any, view their mission as developing young men and women for the benefit of society. Teachers are idealogues .Largely, their positions in acedemia are more feathers in their caps. There is an old expression. "Those who can't do, teach." How much meaningful interaction is there with name architects in schools. They would better serve the profession through daily hands on contact with interns in their offices.That is, if they could get work.
AIA. Don't give a rat's ass. After over twenty years in architecture their role remains a mystery. Annual fee is egregious. Can someone point me to results? Has become mostly a guild allowing paid use of the AIA honorific.
Licensing. The current system is crazy. Seems like an attempt to milk interns for all they can. Basically, if you want to be an architect we want you for money. The old system of several exams in three days was better. Some may say the current system is necessary because architecture has become so complex. Duh!!! Seems like a failure of colleges and universities to me. How many students do schools actually weed out? How many schools prepare students for the realities of their career.
CEUs. Because there are so many poorly trained and unskilled individuals in the profession, this has become necessary. We meet young architects almost daily who upon receiving their ticket believe they are ready to open their own offices. Many haven't a clue how to do construction drawings or buildings are constructed.
It has always been the responsibility of architects to maintain proficiency in the latest skills and be knowledgeable of the latest trends necessary for them to do their job. That is why architecture is considered a profession. Too many architects are trying to do too many things.
We may need different classes of license. Drivers licenses are a good example.Civil engineers are allowed to do structural design for many buildings. Only structural engineers are licensed to design structures over a certain heights. Certifications allowing architects to do houses, smaller commercial, interiors, high-rise, etc. may be the answer.
Look at the medical profession.
Too early in the morning. Too much coffee. Too much whining.
Suggestion for job seekers. Go to the website for most any major large EA firm and find their Careers page. You should register with them while you are there. Many have drop down menus asking you where you heard of their firm. Go there and write down all of these names. Most are job boards you never heard of. Google them. Get architecture out of your mind. You're a skilled professional who can do much more than the Type V condos or little commercial buildings you've been drawing for the past few years. You should soon discover a list of firms you may never knew existed. Most will not have positions for architects. Look for anything that mentions construction. After you have revised your resume to convince the world you are the greatest self-starter and most capable professional in the universe, write the President a personal letter and include your resume. Explain how your skills and training will benefit their organization. Be BOLD and courageous. All they can say is no and you've been there before.
nice post martini....
hey look, its after 9 almost time to switch from coffee to gin.
Most doctors think their patients are stupid and don't take their advice (and they're probably right a lot of the time.) Lawyers don't complain about their clients? Maybe on Law & Order, but in the real world - I think not. Professionals spend their days learning processes which the average person doesn't think about or realize why certain pats of it are important to them. They won't and that's frankly why they need us. Build them the best building you can for them and move on.
Unlike doctors and lawyers there's just not a system imposing its will upon them (the law or disease) when they walk in our front door. That's a benefit if you think its the experience for growth, but a disadvantage if you want them indebted to you.
Sorry for the aside. Martini+1, just wanted to say, your last post was great. Enjoy your gin.
All real estate market sectors are absolutely saturated with unsold/unleased product. Institutional markets, with educational and medical sectors often considered "recession proof", are cutting their capital development budgets back drastically.
Real estate sector reports infer that client base for many architectural firms is rapidly disappearing, and will be gone for several years, at minimum, until absorption rates improve to make new development attractive again. Right now, those absorption rates are getting worse, not better.
Construction financing is extremely difficult. Many real estate developers and property owners can't refinance their properties as their short-term loans mature.
There are far more architects currently in job market than there are positions justified by firms' billings and remaining client base. Many architectural firms are unlikely to see a Stimulus Bill "bounce" in project volume. If an architect is laid-off or looking for a first job, it may be a multi-month period or longer until a reasonable job offer surfaces again. We are not in a recession; the entire real estate market is in crisis.
The job market situation is catastrophic.
I agree that the RE sector is in crisis. I don't agree there are to many architects. in 2006 there were 250k people employed in architecture firms and 100; licenced architects. imho there are not enough of us. The billings for the year were 24 billion. the consteuction was something like 1 trillion. or 2.5 perecent of cost of construction.
As a profession we have ignored the common man for the corporation.
To remain relevant we need to lobby that all work needs to be submitted for a construction permit by a licenced architect -- ag buildings and houses included.
I have seen too many buildings desigend by contrators that have undersized beams and life safety issues up the wazu.
in my area, north lake county IL. only one town requires an architect for TI work, decks, 3- season rooms. over time we have established a relationship with the entire building dept. we asked to be put on a short list of local professionals for those who need help. We are often called to assist people in red tag.
As a profession, I wish we would get off our high horse and look to become a necessity and not a luxury.
sorry for the rant.
100k not 100; damn this crackberry....
maybe it's time for a new, 21st ct Bauhaus to appear...?
[url=http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/0,1518,610283,00.html]"At the end of World War I, the German art world was frozen in a state of trauma. Those who had escaped the trenches alive were struggling to survive financially, and the future seemed politically charged and economically uncertain.
Then the Bauhaus arrived as a glimmer of hope."[/url]
Snook, you got me. All 1200 or so responses on this thread were really me. I just use about 30 or 40 different screen names. Basically everyone who has posted on this thread were just aliases of mine -- how very brilliant of you to make this discovery!
Rolls eyes.
I'm Sparticus... I mean Archimed!
no, you're Crassus
Stop arguing with myself Vado!
My guide to surviving layoffs.
hope it helps
impalajunkie, thank you for the link and the story. i need all the help i can get.
sorting wheat and chaff
our office has halved numbers since the new year. no ones knows how far it will cut or which side or the harvest we will fall!
the office.
How can you tell if the architecture firm you work at is finacially responsible enough to be a stable place to work?
I have been part of a large layoff of more than 20 employees about 6 years ago at one of the largest architecture offices in my city. Now I am working at another one of the few large firms here. They seem to be doing pretty well and the office seems to be busy, but it also seemed busy at the other place when they mismanaged and had to layoff so many people.
..just a little concerned and hoping the bad economy doesn't hit the office I'm working in! What are the warning signs?
Honestly? Ive always found if the principles are always all sunshine and no bad news and every project is going to happen like NEXT WEEK - thats a sign. Hate to say it but companies that appear a lot stodgy, grumpy - almost mean - are in my experience sound.
And just for my own conscience....I am putting in extra concentration hopefully very noticeably stepping up my quality and speed of producing good cds.
lexi - it's impossible to say. the clearest sign is if you or your colleagues have no real workload being assigned to you or all of a sudden you're doing marketing one day...that's not a good sign.
word on the street that one of the large firms here is about to do another round of layoffs. not sure of the size, but their work just hasn't come back. i suspect someone will post the particulars here after it happens...
A good sign something is about to drop is when upper management starts having several out of the ordinary closed door meetings. Not just the typical Monday morning meeting.
Do have a bottle of this stashed away. If I'm let go it's coming out for at least one good bender.
With Layoffs looming is anyone out there doing their patriotic shopping to help keep the economy afloat? I do not foresee spending money on anything but, rent, debt and food. It is RDF all the way for now on.
Personally I don’t think I will ever buy a house unless I have cash in the bank to live in a city for two years. Renting might become a more important part of the economy in the coming years.
Is anyone working to change single family homes into rentals, possibly multiple family rentals? This involves getting variances and some complicated fire separation work done but it may be the fate of many a foreclosed home out there.
Did I see signs? The principal wouldn't look me in the eye for 2 days before I got laid off, so yes, I had a little more than a hunch!
Signs:
Projects are wrapping up; no new work coming in.
More office gossip. Grapevine tends to be accurate.
More office tension, more people seem nervous, unsettled, snappish.
Principals evade eye-contact and/or small talk, generally less available.
Principals huddled in conference room with door closed, worse if comptroller is in room too.
Closer scrutiny of time cards, tardiness, long lunches, web cruising, socializing chattiness on phone or in person; closer monitoring of inefficient entry-level and mid-level people.
Principals circulate confidentiality agreements, new policies regarding employees' rights related to personal portfolio preparation.
God what a mindfuck!
What the fuck?
Thanks internet55, I'd been wondering where to get an Air Max hairpiece since my 14% pay cut. Now I know how to spend it.
looks like we got bots up in here
hopefully the site admins will delete Internet55
don't go to the website this is a means to download spy-ware and other nasty stuff. and it is undermining th real sponsors of this website who pay for advertising.
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