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corten steel / glass

duke19_98

I'm currently designing a pedestrian bridge roof canopy that is made up of sheets of glass and folded corten steel. There will be lots of odd angled shards (think lebbeus) making up the canopy. I've been looking for some good details to get me started, but am having a hard time finding any. Any suggestions? I'm a student and am relatively new to searching the net for example .dwg's so please excuse my ignorance. Thanks.

steel to glass detail:
image

 
Sep 27, 04 9:20 pm
Mason White

brian ... GET away from the INTERNET!!!
RUN to your university LIBRARY right NOW!!!

look at any issue of Detail magazine ... and drool.
look at the Steel Construction Manual. drool.
look at the Glass Construciton Manual. drool.
or any El Croquis for an architect that actually builds (i.e. Gigon & Guyer, who happen to have a giant cor-ten project in Switzy) again, drool.

all your rival cooleagues will marvel at your adept knowledge of real architecture.

Sep 27, 04 9:32 pm  · 
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instrumentOFaction

Brian... Mason is right....typical steel and glass detailing will serve you well.
Old copies of these manuals are sought after for a reason...they're invaluable, even for students. the good details have been used for decades...and they work.

I understand the visual allure of cor-ten, but beware its drawbacks. Cor-ten's natural 'oxidation' process can and will 'seal' itself after about a year depending on exposure, with a surface that remains relatively stable...BUT, it stains other materials and pedestrians. concrete soaks it up...so does rough stone...ugly stains...polished stone seems to fair better. If you are bridging a body of water, how are you going to justify its contamination from run-off?

Also, cor-ten will structurally degrade dangerously if placed in an extremely damp or constantly wet environment and when its exposed to salt (road salt or in salty air) for extended exposures. it can lose up to 30-50% of its cross section in these circumstances. Plan and size your members accordingly if you must use cor-ten or paint the members (inside and outside of tubes) in these situations.

Good luck with your project, Brian.

Sep 28, 04 9:59 am  · 
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duke19_98

Mason and instrumentOFaction, I checked out the Detail Mags and got a few details there. I found a few provoking ideas in El Croquis as well.

As for the Cor-ten, I was unaware of these particular drawbacks. I'm not spanning any water and am building in a moderately dry climate (Dallas). I am however slightly concerned about its staining affect on concrete, brick masonry, and glass. Can you tell me more about this, or perhaps provide a source where more info can be found.

I didn’t find much of anything on methods of bolting glass panels to steel pipe.
Thanks for the suggestions guys.

Sep 28, 04 10:08 am  · 
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instrumentOFaction

Brian, you won't find a lot about bolting glass panels directly to steel pipe because its not a real great idea....especially if the steel pipe is strutural (meaning that it carries more than its own dead load) that steel is meant to move, expand, contract and shift over the course of the building's lifespan...you can't bolt a glass sheet, with little to no lateral stability across its section, to that steel and not expect it to crack when the building members settle, expand and contract.

buildings (and bridges) are assemblies of systems. one layered upon another, dependent on one another and planned accordingly. visually lightweight glass curtain walls systems and the 'frog systems' (see typical Pilkington 4 corner glass butt-glazed details) are structurally independent from the building. more members in the chain between the bolted glass and the building structure means more room for expansion and contraction over the system...and that means less stress on the glass itself...

most of these systems have their own steel 'web' that supports the glass in terms of its own dead load (its own weight) plus any lateral load from wind conditions. because its not taking of the building's load (structure, floors above, any live load from people and furniture) it can be lighter and visually thin.

support for cor-ten drawbacks coming soon, give me a few minutes....

Sep 28, 04 10:21 am  · 
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instrumentOFaction

Dallas...ok, not extremely 'foggy' down there, nor salty...here's some good reading on this subject, if not for this project then for future reference:

www.structuremag.org/archives/ 2004/august/Structural%20Practices.pdf

Beware of Corten Steel Poles Exposed to Salt Spray
http://www.tfhrc.gov/trnsptr/nov98/contents.htm

Shim Sutcliffe 'weathering steel house' in Toronto, i think...published in 2000.

http://revobiz.dyndns.org/group/seaint/1998b/msg01144.html

http://www.ussconstruction.com/metal/metal/corten.shtml

best of luck, Brian.

Sep 28, 04 10:50 am  · 
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duke19_98

Thanks a million istrumentOFaction. I've added a picture to the original post of a detail of EOM's umbrella. Your right, the steel that the glass is attached to is not structural. I was actually thinking of folding the Cor-ten sheets and making them structural. Anyhow the picture above is the closest glass canopy detail that I have found. I'm not planning on using undulating glass however. Thanks again. I'll check out these links.

Sep 28, 04 10:55 am  · 
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instrumentOFaction

pursuant to the issue of staining from cor-ten:

http://www.artmetal.com/brambush/forum/bramyak2/messages/590.html

http://sculpture.net/community/showthread.php?t=740&goto=nextnewest

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=cor+ten&btnG=Search

http://www.durangotexas.com/eyesontexas/disaster/rust/deadlyrust.htm

THe last link has great photos...Your project that you posted on the school blog looks interesting and challenging, especially from a ADA compliance POV. i can see the lebeus woods influence as you had stated earlier. it is certainly 'alive or parasitic' and 'tapeworm-like'. certainly different than the static rectilinearity of the 'host' building. -best of luck.

Sep 28, 04 2:59 pm  · 
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duke19_98

Thanks again for supplying me with your interesting research on cor-ten. I was not aware of the issues at the modern. Is this the work of the same artist that has the large steel sculptures around the world? I've seen one in Germany and even at the Nasher in Dallas.

I talked to my prof today about my project. The 'tapeworm' (i like that) is a sort of pedestrian path that will most likely include stairs at some point or another. The beginning level emerging from the ground could possibly comply with accessibility as it will be only rising 8 ft over a distance of about 170'. I've discussed using a spiral like structural pipe that has steel and glass plates attached to it. The plates will float on some type of connecting assembly to the steel spiral tubing. It will be more of a perforated covered walkway than an enclosed space. This should help with some of the expanding and heat issues.

I'm heading to the supply shop to pick up some materials for a larger scale model. Stay tuned for more.

Sep 28, 04 5:02 pm  · 
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instrumentOFaction

you got it...Richard Serra. The project at the modern is one of his largest pieces. He does interior commissions as well, which often weather quite differently since they are only exposed to air and not rain buffetting. For example, the installation at the National Holocaust Museum in DC has a nice velvety quality, not rough, porous or scaly like the Modern piece. The only thing about it is that fingerprints leave little spots on the steel from the oil in our hands...and they only go up about 7 feet, not unexpected but something to consider.

Just as a guess, the conditions at the Modern will subside after that weathering is complete, but i assume that the steel in the Vortex is A)under more stress and therefore 'moves sustantially more (its a giant steel sail!) and B) is of satisfactory thickness to remain structurally sound even with 1/8" thick chunks spalling off.

As to your project, i had one idea you can take or leave; modern steel roller coasters might be a place to get some visual ideas. that twisting spiral tubing sounds similar and it might give you something. the coaster structure is similar in nature...major structural members for the dead loads and another steel system guiding/holding/restraining the track and the car movement of which there is a lot, those coaster have substantial deformation ... good luck.

Sep 28, 04 10:31 pm  · 
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duke19_98

Richard Serra, that’s it. Well I guess finger prints are better then the graffiti that covers his piece in Berlin. I guess that's to be expected, everything is covered in graffiti there.

The rollercoaster is a great idea. I'll look into those tomorrow. Thanks you've been a great help.

Sep 28, 04 10:38 pm  · 
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