By JEREMY OLSHAN and GEOFF EARLE, Post Correspondents
August 28, 2008 --
DENVER - Democrats will kneel before the "Temple of Obama" tonight.
As if a Rocky Mountain coronation were not lofty enough, Barack Obama will aim for Mount Olympus when he accepts his party's nomination atop an enormous, Greek-columned stage - built by the same cheesy set team that put together Britney Spears' last tour.
PHOTO GALLERY: Barack's Mt. O-lympus Stage
Get MORE DNC Coverage at NYPost.com
Updates at Charlie Hurt's Convention Insider Blog
READ; Obama Headed for HBO
John McCain's campaign mocked the massive neoclassical set created for Obama's speech at 75,000-seat Invesco Field. Some Republicans have dubbed it the "Barackopolis," while others suggested the delegates should wear togas to fit in among the same Doric columns the ancient Greeks believed would stroke the egos of Zeus and Athena.
"It's only appropriate that Barack Obama would descend down from the heavens and spend a little time with us mere mortals when accepting the Democratic nomination," said Republican National Committee spokesman Danny Diaz.
The McCain campaign quickly dispatched a memo calling the stage the "Temple of Obama."
"We would have expected to read something like this in The Onion. Fortunately for us, it's true. Unfortunately for Obama, it's true," a McCain adviser told The Post.
But the set is designed to evoke the White House and the Lincoln Memorial, not the Acropolis, said staging supervisor Bobby Allen, a Spears set vet.
"We've done Britney's sets and a whole bunch of rock shows, but this was far more elaborate and complicated and we had to do it in far less time," said Allen, of RDA Entertainment.
"The biggest challenge has been making sure we don't damage the playing field underneath."
Asked who is harder to sat isfy - the Democrats or Britney - Allen replied: "I better not answer that."
The curved, columned backdrop does resemble the portico of the White House, and blue carpeting and podium surrounded by white stars is suggestive of the Oval Office, other crew members said.
Democrats quickly pointed out that George W. Bush accepted the Republican nomination before a similar, though less elaborate, stage in 2004.
Obama chose to accept the nomination at Invesco Field and not at the Pepsi Center, where the rest of the convention is being held, so he can reach out to a larger number of supporters - a move John F. Kennedy employed in 1960.
The late decision to move the speech to the football stadium did not give Allen and the other contractors much time to make the Olympian stage a reality.
"We knew about it for only a few weeks, and had only one week to actually assemble this," he said.
The structure has an aluminum frame, and the faux-stone walls and columns are made of wood.
Obama has been called "the biggest celebrity in the world" by the McCain campaign. Republicans say that even though Obama will share the stage with Stevie Wonder, the candidate is proving their point.
Asked about McCain's criticism of the Democratic convention stage, Obama adviser David Axelrod jabbed at McCain for "shooting barbs about the opulence of our convention from the mountaintop in Sedona."
Democratic delegates defended the grandiosity as fitting with the monumental importance of this election.
"If you ask me, it kind of looks like the columns in the White House," Ohio delegate Eileen Krupinski said.
Kathy Knight, a North Carolina delegate, said the Republicans will say anything to bring Obama down.
"All they can reach for is what's negative," she said. "That's just tacky."
Regardless of questions about the temple, people are still clamoring to get inside.
Despite Democratic efforts to stop rampant ticket-scalping for Obama's big speech tonight, craigslist.com has been filled with ads offering the impossible-to-get seats for as much as $1,000.
Standing on this temple podium, Obama will recall Rev. Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" speech while mourning the victims of Hurricane Katrina when he accepts his party's nomination tonight - fusing two events central to the African-American experience into his call for national unity and change.
"He's going to lay out the case for change. He's going to set the stakes for this election - the risks of continuing down the road we're on," said Axelrod, previewing the speech.
Although Obama was still working on his speech yesterday, he will continue to try to paint McCain as someone who "doesn't get" the struggles of ordinary Americans.
Obama has been refining his text for weeks, working with a team of aides and speechwriters to polish a speech he drafted on his own. For guidance, he has reviewed three speeches of interest: Bill Clinton in 1992, John Kennedy in 1960, and Ronald Reagan in 1980. Obama, who arrived in Denver yesterday, was sharpening his attacks on McCain at a riverside park in Billings, Mont., in preparation for his address.
"Do we have a president who gets that veterans are struggling every day, or do we have somebody who doesn't get it?" he asked.
"Who wants to give more tax cuts to big corporations including ExxonMobil - $300 billion worth - while we get 100 million people without any tax relief whatsoever?" he continued.
"I am going to fight as hard as I can over the next 70 days to make clear to the American people that they deserve a president and a White House that's fighting for them. It's not fighting for the special interests . . . It's fighting for you," he said.
On energy, Obama said McCain was "asleep at the switch" - a dig that hinted at his advanced age
I seem to recall from my world history classes eons ago that Greece was the birthplace of democracy ... this imagery seems entirely appropriate to me at a Democratic convention.
The whole issue of arrogance has pissed me off this morning. Can you imagine how they would be acting if Obama was not acting confident? "This young black guy is not ready to lead, look at him, he is scared", etc...
He has to show that he is proud of who he is and his ideas, if not he would be eaten alive.
Wait, they are going at him from every possible direction:
I can see it now. Air Force One decked out with "22s" and spinners. Maybe even a set of hydraulics. Watching the hip-hop president in the Oval Office with his baseball cap on backward coping a gansta lean in the big chair. Should be really pimp, don't you think? Cool man, real cool. Instead of giving away presidential cuff links to guests, as is the custom, he will offer "bling bling."
And Obama cannot even defend himself, as McCain will say that HE is playing the race card.
All this stupidity is fine and well in a campaign, but next year when we are bomb bomb bombing Iran, have a cold war with russia, and have given the little bit we have of an economy to China, we will be regretting having elected Senile Sidney McCain.
quizzical, I'm not questioning the "appropriateness" of it at all.. I guess its the "why" I'm concerned with ... or perhaps what is the message.. and why has Greek neo-classicism been the mantra of choice for our architectural government centers... white house, supreme court, etc...
Frankly, I think these conventions are the most disgusting display of political circle-jerking the country has ever seen, regardless of party and candidate. They're week-long orgies of partisan mutual mastrubation.
curt,
so your greek imagery for obama thread title and quoting of a ny post kitchen-sink/fluff article is more accurately a general question about why greek neo-classicism (actually federal style) was so common in government architecture?
I totally disagree that greek neo-classicism is actually federal style architecture. Greek neo-classicism has infiltrated residential, institutional, and commercial architecture to name a few... and the quote you give does nothing to address the real question here...
What does a candidate gain from associating himself with a particular imagery? Why would Obama link himself to "ancient democracies" what is the purpose?
maybe its more a question of what do we as architects think the public perception of Greek imagery is? I don't know, and don't really understand why Obama would use this as the backdrop for his speech...
screw the Neo-Classical mumbo-jumbo, this is about scale and framing the candidate so he does not look like a mouse in a large house. remember this is a stadium and not an arena, it's totally different dynamic, and trying to provide scale elements only helps to frame Obama. the other stuff is obviously trying to make whitey comfortable with a black man running for the leader of the free world...
don't you worry, given mcsame's proclivities to explode or fuck up teleprompter speech, and his awkward pedophilic smile-laugh, it'll be all too creepy. plus you'll have the added benefit of seeing and hearing a bunch of white people calling Obama an uppity negro.
I don't see this as having anything to do with Obama wanting to link himself to ancient democracies. To my mind the design is evocative of the White House portico and/or the Oval Office. With all the criticisms flying around that Obama lacks the experience and gravitas to be a world leader, I think this set is intended to show viewers that he looks and feels at home in the halls of power and that he's "presidential".
Frankly, I think these conventions are the most disgusting display of political circle-jerking the country has ever seen, regardless of party and candidate. They're week-long orgies of partisan mutual mastrubation.
I'll second that. Personally I'd rather a return to the day where the canidate was selected at the convention. These days there's no real point.
And what do these elaborate sets cost? Couldn't that money be better spent elsewhere in the campaign? After all, the parties already get their week long free advertisement regardless of background sets. Just walk up to a podium found in the storage closet. Simple as that.
This is a bit unsettling, but typical for politicians with megalomania. Obama has a very high opinion of himself and the liberal media has pinned the "golden boy" lable on his lapel. It's wonderful to see that even some Dems are getting a bit aggrivated by his antics, but we'll see how many hopeful voters he swoon tonight with his Zeus roll play.
Here's a teeny, tiny rant while I'm on the subject: Obama voted to keep post-birth abortions alive (three times), so for me, no amount of bedazzlement can steal my vote. The Greeks made human sacrifices to their Gods, so the abortion platform is actually fitting for someone trying to play Zeus.
aquapura,
as a practicing architect in a flyover state, i say there's already enough people who have this view towards the design of objects and space...i don't think we need to contribute to it too.
Obama has a very high opinion of himself and the liberal media has pinned the "golden boy" lable on his lapel.
McCain has a very high opinion of himself as well. And the conservative media has pinned the "honorable maverick" label on his lapel.
the abortion platform is actually fitting...
...for all politicians. No matter what side of the aisle they all love talking about it and getting people hysterical about it, but none of them is ever going to do a thing about it. It would be bad for business.
Anyone who's ever been to Washington DC knows that this podium is meant to evoke the White House, the Lincoln Memoorial, the Jefferson Memorial, and every other governmental building in that city.
McCain has a very high opinion of himself as well. And the conservative media has pinned the "honorable maverick" label on his lapel.
Oh contrair. I know many republicans that are quite upset about McCain being the presumptive nominee because - he's not republican. McCain is moving the party to the center and a cornerstone of my complaint that the major parties are essentially the same. Your comment about abortion above is another example.
I have some tin foil hat theories about why McCain is the nominee, but am putting my odds on a huge republican backlast against him.
scribs -
as opposed to the hundreds of thousands of innocent lived snuffed out and millions more displaced from their homes for a war of choice built on lies that McCain cheerleaded for? I would just then point out that if your standard measurement is that you would not vote for someone who hasn't taken innocent lives* and you define that as not legislating against something because you think it shouldn't be the individual's decision and pretty much means that you are going to be staying home on the first Tuesday of ever november for a very long time to come.
* I could go on and on about the republican's self-contradicting "pro-life" stance which completely ignores their stands on capital punishment, health-care, poverty, civil-rights, the environment and the general well-being of the populous which they (pretend to) serve. A more accurate description for their stand is "anti-choice".
To stir zoolander's fire, Obama was also at the most recent gathering of the Builderberg group. Not sure I've bought into the "new world order" group of conspiracy theorists, but for those people Obama sure as shit doesn't represent change.
...and a comment about abortion. I hate how both sides dramatize this issue. If Roe v. Wade is overturned all it means is the states get to decide the law for themselves. While South Dakota might outlaw abortion do you really think California will? This isn't the 1960's...there won't be back alley abortions and the pro-lifer's aren't going to live in some sort of "saved" land overnight.
Old Bill Clinton went there to get the blessing of the 'old boys' while he was still gouvener, then he went on to become president.
There will be plenty of change under Obama, you can count on it.
Unfortunately its the type of change that will not benefit us plebs.
Expect more laws that reduce freedom and privacy, more taxes, greater police state (fairly scary already mind you!).
Im still young and I can see that politics and 'democracy' are a sham. When I see older people who should have seen this sham all their lives, yet still believe that the next person coming into office will produce miracles I just shake my head.
Roe when framed in the correct context - with the stem cell debate - can hardly be considered an issue about Abortion rights. Roe tested the fundamental right we, Americans, have to privacy when it comes to consulting with our physicians, about medical matters concerning our bodies.
beta - you're correct that roe v. wade was decided on "the right to privacy." However the argument against it is that the constitution doesn't say anything about a right to privacy.
While I think we should have some defintion of a right to privacy it should be a constitutional amendment, not a flimsy court decision.
It's a flimsy decision for the simple fact that the pro-lifers know it can easily be overturned by stacking the supreme court. If congress could get their heads out of their asses and get an amendment added it would be a non-issue.
* I could go on and on about the republican's self-contradicting "pro-life" stance which completely ignores their stands on capital punishment, health-care, poverty, civil-rights, the environment and the general well-being of the populous which they (pretend to) serve. A more accurate description for their stand is "anti-choice".
crowbert i would ask the same about the typical democratic position of pro-choice/ban capital punishment. i shed no tears for people who go out and murder and then are very humanely executed. but babies getting aborted? isn't that anti-choice for the baby (or fetus, if you prefer).
personally i was hard core pro-choice for a long time, but now it's not an issue for me when deciding who to vote for in a presidential election.
Google the term - it's being practiced all over the world (Netherlands seems to be pushing the evelope big time here). The terms refers to the act of killing a baby after an induced abortion goes wrong and does not succeed in killing the infant. Partial birth abortion, as you well know, is sucking the babies brains out while it is still partially inside the mother. Post birth is allowing a baby to die on the operating table.
Many jumped on me with anti-Republican hate, so I must make clear that I AM NOT A REPUBLICAN. I'm a citizen and an American, but would never pledge allegiance to a party of puppets, which is what both Dems and Repubs have become.
I'm not an advocate of war, and loath the campaign in Iraq; however, check the stats:
Civilian death toll from Iraq conflict: 2001-2008 =
94,000+ (iraqbodycount.org)
Death toll from abortions, 2001-2008 =
1.6 mill/year x 7 years = 11.2 million
Call Republican war supportors war mongers until your eyes bleed, but the numbers just don't compare. Abortion started as a form of ethnic cleansing. Margarat Sanger, who formed Planned Parenthood was an advocate and pioneer in the Eugenics movement, which sought to "weed out the unfit" from the gene pool by killing babies.
Abortion also has extreme roots in sexism (look at China's statistics on the number of female babies killed by abortion, also referred to as "gendercide" - some quote 50 million as a total for aborted female babies in China).
I urge you all to take a serious look at abortion from a historical and global level. Whether you're pro life or pro choice, you'll certainly be shocked by the staggering numbers.
"Expect more laws that reduce freedom and privacy, more taxes, greater police state (fairly scary already mind you!)."
Yea, zoolander, move to China, much better there.
"Death toll from abortions, 2001-2008 =
1.6 mill/year x 7 years = 11.2 million"
"Death toll" is itself a judgmental slant on your part, not so considered under the law, but the stuff in Iraq is so considered under any law you care to mention......but:
oh, yea, 11.2 more million people on the planet with probably no-one to take care of them properly...'cause, you know, humans are not reproducing enough, we could go extinct any day now....
And as far as this set: it's a fucking set for a fucking speech that'll last, what, 20 minutes, and most people won't even remember (can you quote any lines from his famous 2004 convention speech?). Talk about obsessing over unimportant nonsense...
Hell, the carbon footprint for a convention must be monstrous: all the flights and car rides to get everyone there and back home, the energy to run the hall, the sheer amount of plastic water bottles and flown in food, etc, etc.
Do away with the damn things, have each state hold a little local meeting to ratify, email the results, have Obama do a speech in a little studio somewhere and be done with it.
zoolander - it's important to our children's children's children that your carbon footprint be neutral.
all you have to do is go to www.terrapass.com, calculate your carbon footprint, then buy the appropriate amount of carbon offsets to fight global warming!
my carbon footprint is pretty low (i do as much for the environment as possible) and i need to offset about 8,000 lbs of annual CO2. It only costs me $47.60 per year but i live with a clean conscience.
Greek Imagery for Obama
So there is some buzz regarding Obama using Greek imagery as his backdrop for his speech tonight.
I don't have this figured out myself, but what role does Greek imagery play in the perception of Obama if any??
hmmm, not sure why the photo was cut off... here is a link to the whole photo here:
http://www.nypost.com/seven/08282008/photos/stadium_large.jpg
and here is the article..
TEMPLE OF DEM ON MT. O-LYMPUS
By JEREMY OLSHAN and GEOFF EARLE, Post Correspondents
August 28, 2008 --
DENVER - Democrats will kneel before the "Temple of Obama" tonight.
As if a Rocky Mountain coronation were not lofty enough, Barack Obama will aim for Mount Olympus when he accepts his party's nomination atop an enormous, Greek-columned stage - built by the same cheesy set team that put together Britney Spears' last tour.
PHOTO GALLERY: Barack's Mt. O-lympus Stage
Get MORE DNC Coverage at NYPost.com
Updates at Charlie Hurt's Convention Insider Blog
READ; Obama Headed for HBO
John McCain's campaign mocked the massive neoclassical set created for Obama's speech at 75,000-seat Invesco Field. Some Republicans have dubbed it the "Barackopolis," while others suggested the delegates should wear togas to fit in among the same Doric columns the ancient Greeks believed would stroke the egos of Zeus and Athena.
"It's only appropriate that Barack Obama would descend down from the heavens and spend a little time with us mere mortals when accepting the Democratic nomination," said Republican National Committee spokesman Danny Diaz.
The McCain campaign quickly dispatched a memo calling the stage the "Temple of Obama."
"We would have expected to read something like this in The Onion. Fortunately for us, it's true. Unfortunately for Obama, it's true," a McCain adviser told The Post.
But the set is designed to evoke the White House and the Lincoln Memorial, not the Acropolis, said staging supervisor Bobby Allen, a Spears set vet.
"We've done Britney's sets and a whole bunch of rock shows, but this was far more elaborate and complicated and we had to do it in far less time," said Allen, of RDA Entertainment.
"The biggest challenge has been making sure we don't damage the playing field underneath."
Asked who is harder to sat isfy - the Democrats or Britney - Allen replied: "I better not answer that."
The curved, columned backdrop does resemble the portico of the White House, and blue carpeting and podium surrounded by white stars is suggestive of the Oval Office, other crew members said.
Democrats quickly pointed out that George W. Bush accepted the Republican nomination before a similar, though less elaborate, stage in 2004.
Obama chose to accept the nomination at Invesco Field and not at the Pepsi Center, where the rest of the convention is being held, so he can reach out to a larger number of supporters - a move John F. Kennedy employed in 1960.
The late decision to move the speech to the football stadium did not give Allen and the other contractors much time to make the Olympian stage a reality.
"We knew about it for only a few weeks, and had only one week to actually assemble this," he said.
The structure has an aluminum frame, and the faux-stone walls and columns are made of wood.
Obama has been called "the biggest celebrity in the world" by the McCain campaign. Republicans say that even though Obama will share the stage with Stevie Wonder, the candidate is proving their point.
Asked about McCain's criticism of the Democratic convention stage, Obama adviser David Axelrod jabbed at McCain for "shooting barbs about the opulence of our convention from the mountaintop in Sedona."
Democratic delegates defended the grandiosity as fitting with the monumental importance of this election.
"If you ask me, it kind of looks like the columns in the White House," Ohio delegate Eileen Krupinski said.
Kathy Knight, a North Carolina delegate, said the Republicans will say anything to bring Obama down.
"All they can reach for is what's negative," she said. "That's just tacky."
Regardless of questions about the temple, people are still clamoring to get inside.
Despite Democratic efforts to stop rampant ticket-scalping for Obama's big speech tonight, craigslist.com has been filled with ads offering the impossible-to-get seats for as much as $1,000.
Standing on this temple podium, Obama will recall Rev. Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" speech while mourning the victims of Hurricane Katrina when he accepts his party's nomination tonight - fusing two events central to the African-American experience into his call for national unity and change.
"He's going to lay out the case for change. He's going to set the stakes for this election - the risks of continuing down the road we're on," said Axelrod, previewing the speech.
Although Obama was still working on his speech yesterday, he will continue to try to paint McCain as someone who "doesn't get" the struggles of ordinary Americans.
Obama has been refining his text for weeks, working with a team of aides and speechwriters to polish a speech he drafted on his own. For guidance, he has reviewed three speeches of interest: Bill Clinton in 1992, John Kennedy in 1960, and Ronald Reagan in 1980. Obama, who arrived in Denver yesterday, was sharpening his attacks on McCain at a riverside park in Billings, Mont., in preparation for his address.
"Do we have a president who gets that veterans are struggling every day, or do we have somebody who doesn't get it?" he asked.
"Who wants to give more tax cuts to big corporations including ExxonMobil - $300 billion worth - while we get 100 million people without any tax relief whatsoever?" he continued.
"I am going to fight as hard as I can over the next 70 days to make clear to the American people that they deserve a president and a White House that's fighting for them. It's not fighting for the special interests . . . It's fighting for you," he said.
On energy, Obama said McCain was "asleep at the switch" - a dig that hinted at his advanced age
Here's the whole image:
I seem to recall from my world history classes eons ago that Greece was the birthplace of democracy ... this imagery seems entirely appropriate to me at a Democratic convention.
As I said in VOTE OBAMA:
pomo in politics is only ok when white politicians do it:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0808/Bushs_2004_temple.html
The whole issue of arrogance has pissed me off this morning. Can you imagine how they would be acting if Obama was not acting confident? "This young black guy is not ready to lead, look at him, he is scared", etc...
He has to show that he is proud of who he is and his ideas, if not he would be eaten alive.
Wait, they are going at him from every possible direction:
I can see it now. Air Force One decked out with "22s" and spinners. Maybe even a set of hydraulics. Watching the hip-hop president in the Oval Office with his baseball cap on backward coping a gansta lean in the big chair. Should be really pimp, don't you think? Cool man, real cool. Instead of giving away presidential cuff links to guests, as is the custom, he will offer "bling bling."
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=73276
And Obama cannot even defend himself, as McCain will say that HE is playing the race card.
All this stupidity is fine and well in a campaign, but next year when we are bomb bomb bombing Iran, have a cold war with russia, and have given the little bit we have of an economy to China, we will be regretting having elected Senile Sidney McCain.
just got this in an email:
http://www.theonion.com/content/video/portrayal_of_obama_as_elitist
quizzical, I'm not questioning the "appropriateness" of it at all.. I guess its the "why" I'm concerned with ... or perhaps what is the message.. and why has Greek neo-classicism been the mantra of choice for our architectural government centers... white house, supreme court, etc...
"Obama redefinining who can be smeared as condescending eggheads."
ROFL!!!!
"He'll be asked to donate to PBS!"
DOUBLE ROFL!!!
Frankly, I think these conventions are the most disgusting display of political circle-jerking the country has ever seen, regardless of party and candidate. They're week-long orgies of partisan mutual mastrubation.
curt,
so your greek imagery for obama thread title and quoting of a ny post kitchen-sink/fluff article is more accurately a general question about why greek neo-classicism (actually federal style) was so common in government architecture?
try here
"The founders of the United States consciously chose to associate the nation with the ancient democracies of Greece and Rome."
POMOBAMA
jeffe,
I totally disagree that greek neo-classicism is actually federal style architecture. Greek neo-classicism has infiltrated residential, institutional, and commercial architecture to name a few... and the quote you give does nothing to address the real question here...
What does a candidate gain from associating himself with a particular imagery? Why would Obama link himself to "ancient democracies" what is the purpose?
maybe its more a question of what do we as architects think the public perception of Greek imagery is? I don't know, and don't really understand why Obama would use this as the backdrop for his speech...
screw the Neo-Classical mumbo-jumbo, this is about scale and framing the candidate so he does not look like a mouse in a large house. remember this is a stadium and not an arena, it's totally different dynamic, and trying to provide scale elements only helps to frame Obama. the other stuff is obviously trying to make whitey comfortable with a black man running for the leader of the free world...
don't you worry, given mcsame's proclivities to explode or fuck up teleprompter speech, and his awkward pedophilic smile-laugh, it'll be all too creepy. plus you'll have the added benefit of seeing and hearing a bunch of white people calling Obama an uppity negro.
I don't see this as having anything to do with Obama wanting to link himself to ancient democracies. To my mind the design is evocative of the White House portico and/or the Oval Office. With all the criticisms flying around that Obama lacks the experience and gravitas to be a world leader, I think this set is intended to show viewers that he looks and feels at home in the halls of power and that he's "presidential".
Uuuuuh.......maybe 'cause these "ancient democracies" are the foundation for many modern governments, including ours?
What would be more appropriate? Kenyan villages? Decon architecture? Game show sets?
I'll second that. Personally I'd rather a return to the day where the canidate was selected at the convention. These days there's no real point.
And what do these elaborate sets cost? Couldn't that money be better spent elsewhere in the campaign? After all, the parties already get their week long free advertisement regardless of background sets. Just walk up to a podium found in the storage closet. Simple as that.
This is a bit unsettling, but typical for politicians with megalomania. Obama has a very high opinion of himself and the liberal media has pinned the "golden boy" lable on his lapel. It's wonderful to see that even some Dems are getting a bit aggrivated by his antics, but we'll see how many hopeful voters he swoon tonight with his Zeus roll play.
Here's a teeny, tiny rant while I'm on the subject: Obama voted to keep post-birth abortions alive (three times), so for me, no amount of bedazzlement can steal my vote. The Greeks made human sacrifices to their Gods, so the abortion platform is actually fitting for someone trying to play Zeus.
I'm out....
aquapura,
as a practicing architect in a flyover state, i say there's already enough people who have this view towards the design of objects and space...i don't think we need to contribute to it too.
wtf is a "post-birth abortion"?
Redundant statement.
Obama has a very high opinion of himself and the liberal media has pinned the "golden boy" lable on his lapel.
McCain has a very high opinion of himself as well. And the conservative media has pinned the "honorable maverick" label on his lapel.
the abortion platform is actually fitting...
...for all politicians. No matter what side of the aisle they all love talking about it and getting people hysterical about it, but none of them is ever going to do a thing about it. It would be bad for business.
Anyone who's ever been to Washington DC knows that this podium is meant to evoke the White House, the Lincoln Memoorial, the Jefferson Memorial, and every other governmental building in that city.
It's only Greek by way of the Capitol.
Oh contrair. I know many republicans that are quite upset about McCain being the presumptive nominee because - he's not republican. McCain is moving the party to the center and a cornerstone of my complaint that the major parties are essentially the same. Your comment about abortion above is another example.
I have some tin foil hat theories about why McCain is the nominee, but am putting my odds on a huge republican backlast against him.
see: www.lettertogop.com for an example of such.
Obama is a member of the Council on Foreign Relation (CFR).
He is not to be trusted and will carry on with the agenda of his masters, the same as Bush, Clinton, Bush Sr, etc., have done in the past.
Will you people never learn??
WAKE UP AMERICA!!!
Are you LEFT WING or RIGHT WING??
If you took a step back you might see that both wings belong to and are controlled by the same bird!!!!
Time to wake up folks.
scribs -
as opposed to the hundreds of thousands of innocent lived snuffed out and millions more displaced from their homes for a war of choice built on lies that McCain cheerleaded for? I would just then point out that if your standard measurement is that you would not vote for someone who hasn't taken innocent lives* and you define that as not legislating against something because you think it shouldn't be the individual's decision and pretty much means that you are going to be staying home on the first Tuesday of ever november for a very long time to come.
* I could go on and on about the republican's self-contradicting "pro-life" stance which completely ignores their stands on capital punishment, health-care, poverty, civil-rights, the environment and the general well-being of the populous which they (pretend to) serve. A more accurate description for their stand is "anti-choice".
To stir zoolander's fire, Obama was also at the most recent gathering of the Builderberg group. Not sure I've bought into the "new world order" group of conspiracy theorists, but for those people Obama sure as shit doesn't represent change.
...and a comment about abortion. I hate how both sides dramatize this issue. If Roe v. Wade is overturned all it means is the states get to decide the law for themselves. While South Dakota might outlaw abortion do you really think California will? This isn't the 1960's...there won't be back alley abortions and the pro-lifer's aren't going to live in some sort of "saved" land overnight.
I believe abortions should be legal at least until the 36th trimester.
Ah, the Bilderbergers.
Old Bill Clinton went there to get the blessing of the 'old boys' while he was still gouvener, then he went on to become president.
There will be plenty of change under Obama, you can count on it.
Unfortunately its the type of change that will not benefit us plebs.
Expect more laws that reduce freedom and privacy, more taxes, greater police state (fairly scary already mind you!).
Im still young and I can see that politics and 'democracy' are a sham. When I see older people who should have seen this sham all their lives, yet still believe that the next person coming into office will produce miracles I just shake my head.
Roe when framed in the correct context - with the stem cell debate - can hardly be considered an issue about Abortion rights. Roe tested the fundamental right we, Americans, have to privacy when it comes to consulting with our physicians, about medical matters concerning our bodies.
plain and simple.
beta - you're correct that roe v. wade was decided on "the right to privacy." However the argument against it is that the constitution doesn't say anything about a right to privacy.
While I think we should have some defintion of a right to privacy it should be a constitutional amendment, not a flimsy court decision.
It's a flimsy decision for the simple fact that the pro-lifers know it can easily be overturned by stacking the supreme court. If congress could get their heads out of their asses and get an amendment added it would be a non-issue.
crowbert i would ask the same about the typical democratic position of pro-choice/ban capital punishment. i shed no tears for people who go out and murder and then are very humanely executed. but babies getting aborted? isn't that anti-choice for the baby (or fetus, if you prefer).
personally i was hard core pro-choice for a long time, but now it's not an issue for me when deciding who to vote for in a presidential election.
"wtf is a "post-birth abortion"?"
Google the term - it's being practiced all over the world (Netherlands seems to be pushing the evelope big time here). The terms refers to the act of killing a baby after an induced abortion goes wrong and does not succeed in killing the infant. Partial birth abortion, as you well know, is sucking the babies brains out while it is still partially inside the mother. Post birth is allowing a baby to die on the operating table.
Many jumped on me with anti-Republican hate, so I must make clear that I AM NOT A REPUBLICAN. I'm a citizen and an American, but would never pledge allegiance to a party of puppets, which is what both Dems and Repubs have become.
I'm not an advocate of war, and loath the campaign in Iraq; however, check the stats:
Civilian death toll from Iraq conflict: 2001-2008 =
94,000+ (iraqbodycount.org)
Death toll from abortions, 2001-2008 =
1.6 mill/year x 7 years = 11.2 million
Call Republican war supportors war mongers until your eyes bleed, but the numbers just don't compare. Abortion started as a form of ethnic cleansing. Margarat Sanger, who formed Planned Parenthood was an advocate and pioneer in the Eugenics movement, which sought to "weed out the unfit" from the gene pool by killing babies.
Abortion also has extreme roots in sexism (look at China's statistics on the number of female babies killed by abortion, also referred to as "gendercide" - some quote 50 million as a total for aborted female babies in China).
I urge you all to take a serious look at abortion from a historical and global level. Whether you're pro life or pro choice, you'll certainly be shocked by the staggering numbers.
Ok, back to work.
P.S. the death toll from abortions stats are for the U.S. only
ummm.... can we bring this discussion back to architecture please?
Interesting that you cited your source for number of deaths in Iraq but didn't cite your source for number of abortions.
isn't obama's spinal tap stage set regressive as opposed to progressive?
His set is regressive but his font choice is progressive (it's Gotham").
It def. does not indicate
CHANGE
But this does....
Abracadabra For President
"Expect more laws that reduce freedom and privacy, more taxes, greater police state (fairly scary already mind you!)."
Yea, zoolander, move to China, much better there.
"Death toll from abortions, 2001-2008 =
1.6 mill/year x 7 years = 11.2 million"
"Death toll" is itself a judgmental slant on your part, not so considered under the law, but the stuff in Iraq is so considered under any law you care to mention......but:
oh, yea, 11.2 more million people on the planet with probably no-one to take care of them properly...'cause, you know, humans are not reproducing enough, we could go extinct any day now....
And as far as this set: it's a fucking set for a fucking speech that'll last, what, 20 minutes, and most people won't even remember (can you quote any lines from his famous 2004 convention speech?). Talk about obsessing over unimportant nonsense...
well what is the carbon footprint of that stage set?
will it be recycled or reused in a local denver residence?
these ARE important issues!
Hell, the carbon footprint for a convention must be monstrous: all the flights and car rides to get everyone there and back home, the energy to run the hall, the sheer amount of plastic water bottles and flown in food, etc, etc.
Do away with the damn things, have each state hold a little local meeting to ratify, email the results, have Obama do a speech in a little studio somewhere and be done with it.
Damn, I miss the olympics...
What is a carbon footprint?
Such an abstract term. Im guessing its something that the government are going to use to tax us even more?
don't worry, Emilio, i'm sure carbon offsets have been purchased to negate everything.
zoolander - it's important to our children's children's children that your carbon footprint be neutral.
all you have to do is go to www.terrapass.com, calculate your carbon footprint, then buy the appropriate amount of carbon offsets to fight global warming!
my carbon footprint is pretty low (i do as much for the environment as possible) and i need to offset about 8,000 lbs of annual CO2. It only costs me $47.60 per year but i live with a clean conscience.
good luck and spread the word!
terrapass has an excellent FAQ section that answers everything
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