well

like everything in life,
it depends.

more than anything,
your own work and your own portfolio
will get you into grad school.

if these new firm people do great work,
awesome;
and if they have connections,
all the better.

choose the place you think is doing the most interesting work
and you think you would learn the most working from

an old established firm won't be any better for you
unless they are doing really interesting work
and are known for really interesting work
...most established firms are not.

how much experience do the people heading up the firm have? were they partners/senior people in another office?

I took a job at a startup after about a year of experience... it was a lot of fun in the beginning, but it became financially unstable and very stressful after some of the bigger projects went on hold. Personally, I'd go for it if the people seem like they know what they are doing (and more importantly, are very organized and on top of things)... You'll learn as they learn, plus you'll get inside knowledge of how a firm is run, and experience common startup mistakes first hand... however, you won't have the resources or knowledge base of a larger, more established firm, and you might find that after a while you'll want to work someplace that isn't always fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants.

here are the advantages its a new firm, its a young firm, its a small firm, its has works on the drawing boards, and some on site. With this firm you are likely to get a wider set of experiences than with a larger more established firm. You biggest worry is if they go belly up - then you just look for another job. Seems simple enough - good luck to you

Is it a new firm, formed by experienced architects?
Or is it a new firm formed by new architects?

I'd be more enthusiastic about the former, though either could be a great learning experience - with some risk of eventual financial failure...
At your level I wouldn't really worry about that too too much, because it doesn't generally take long for more entry-level people to find jobs (compared to the much longer multi-interview and deliberation process that sometimes happens for people going after senior positions).
But, I'd start looking around for other opportunities at the first hint of any financial instability (and I'd leave immediately if any checks ever bounce, even if they make good on it immediately!)

One concern if they're really newbies: make sure they're actually licensed and that their firm meets whatever state requirements there are for registering firms in that state (if any. this varies from state to state). Otherwise you may run into problems with collecting IDP units. Also check for any state rules regarding who can supervise your internship: there are a few states that require supervisors to have been licensed for at least 3 years before being eligible to supervise anyone.

I'd take it.

The experience you'll gain will be invaluable - even if the firm flops. Especially if the firm flops. But here's to them not flopping.

man, i dunno...

you do not want to work for a firm that flops... nor a firm that is dissolving/splitting up.

go with your gut, what else can you do?

toasteroven and bloopox,

the principal architect has ten years of experience... prior to starting this firm... and there is this another architect who's got reasonable exp. as well.. i'll be the third, to join as an architect
and apart from that, a few interns and a couple of part timers, pretty much make up for the firm's population....

thank you guys for your thoughts.

I'd go for it. chances are that you get more freedom in your work, broader experience and more responsibilities than you'd ever get in a more established firm. In the long run, I suppose you'll learn more from this (also in the way offices function and managerial skills) than you could in a more established firm in the same amount of time.

do it!

If you feel like you can learn from the experience, go for it. However, I would recommend that you monitor the firm's progress and prospects constantly. New, young firms will often struggle with the business aspects. I can't begin to recount the number of times I've heard of start-up firms not managing the money well and then actually missing payroll on a chronic basis. That's a bad place for you to be.

If you take the job, my advice would be to keep your resume and portfolio up-to-date at all times and your ear to the ground in the community where this firm is located. Stay informed about who's hiring and network constantly (through AIA and similar organizations) so you know how to jump ship quickly if the ship starts to sink unexpectedly.

Good luck.

Is this job in the United States?

only 10 years? hmmm.... yeah - I'd keep your resume/portfolio fresh and build up contacts at other firms just in case things head south. A successful startup needs two kinds of people - the energetic sales-person who goes and gets projects and makes the clients feel good, and the super-anal-detail person who pays attention to every single penny, correspondence, and makes sure the office is running smoothly. Rarely this can be the same person, but often you need both.

Also - I'd watch out for firms that don't have an accountant and business manager (for smaller firms this means someone coming in a few times a month). Firms that think they can handle all this on their own are just asking for trouble.

If you take the job, pay very very close attention to how they are running their business. It doesn't matter how awesome their design work is if they are being cavalier about money and how they manage their projects. being organized is much more important than design talent.

I took a job like that right out of school and had a blast for about 6 months. It was fun educational, good experience. One partner was older more experienced and lots of top level connections with a past firm he still did some contract work with. The other was the schmoozer and had the good money crowd connections. Lots of small stuff but have gone on to be a good design shop with a steady client base and mix of work.

Unfortunately my time was cut short with a pending recession ( early 90's) and they had to stretch for a while and would be not in a position to guarantee work 4 months out and felt that I had a better chance to switch jobs now rather wait till everybody was out looking. Disappointed but not un happy with the experience, went to work for a well known firm with more public work ( governments spend money when times are tough in certain sectors of the economy ) lasted a short time before switching to another smaller firm. Still loved the experience and confirmed my desire to work in a smaller/ mid size set up.

It'll be more fun, more stressful, you'll get better exposure to the business and the pay might just be more, but it will also be more volatile unless the partners have figured out work for the next 6 months. ask them what you'll be working on 6 months from now, pay close attention to the answer.

whistler - sounds like the first firm you worked for were very good business managers, if they knew to let you go then, and with that rationale. I agree with everyone who said "take the job with open mind/heart and leave at the first sign of instability."

Job advice #2 is: Be extremely wary of a small company that doesn't need business to survive (companies where someone's wealthy parents or spouse gave them startup seed money to have a fun business of their very own, and if the business fails, they'll still go back to yachts-and-a-porsche-land.) Most of the small-firm horror stories I've heard (not just architecture, but any kind of designy business) ultimately ended up to be one of these cases. A company owner/president who doesn't NEED the business to prosper is not trustworthy!

is it generally safer in bigger firms? I heard SOM lays off the whole team after a project is done. and by the way, there're more over head expenses for bigger firms that's for sure.

if you are planning on going to grad school, then i say take the job. you will gain more experience at a job like this right now, than you would at a larger firm more established

will they let you do more than just CAD work? i am assuming you are entry level, though i could be wrong

what will they have you do there? if it sounds like what you want to do, i say go for it

can i ask why you are going to go for your masters?

so have you taken the job yet? If not what are you waiting for?

first, thanks you guys for all your valuable inputs.

ok, i've decided to take on the job, and had a meeting wid the man responsible for the firm. after the meeting, i felt i wouldnt be just a cad monkey, so i thought it should be worth the gamble. i've got this gut feeling that its going to be a good experience. so i am going thro wid my decision. the firms calendar seems to be filled for the next few months, so a sigh of relief for the moment.!! i would certainly make a note of the kinda things discussed here by many of you.

and marmkind, i think i should specialize on the stuff which interests me the most. and tot it would be more sensible and practical once i get my hands dirty on the field.

An obvious point that is often forgotten in the anxious midst of considering job offers:

If you don't like it there, you can always quit.