You all do realize that the U.S. would experience the most biblical famine in human history if a virus took out all the corn right? Especially field corn.
rationalist
thats what i thought, i just wanted to make sure
since there are foods that are good for you that probably arent environmentally friendly
you know, i find it hard to find anything that doesnt have an environmental impact, unless you grow all your food in your backyard and dont have to have it shipped to a store near you or anything like that
But there is a difference between a virus taking out all the corn in one fell swoop and the idea of making efforts to diversify our diet and food economy. I love corn- half my family is from Iowa, and corn is engrained into our culture. I love the white sweet kind with little tiny kernals, for boiling at home, the big yellow kind on the barbeque... and from my own youth in the southwest, corn in tortillas, in tamales, in breads. It's all tasty, it's healthier than the refined floury breads so many people eat, and it helps support my family. That doesn't mean that the over-reliance on it to sweeten everything we eat isn't potentially a problem.
i love me some corn too
i've recently been introduced to corn chowder
mmmm mmmm
but yes, just like with our energy sources, there should be multiple food sources that we depend on, so if something happens to one source, we arent completely screwed
yes remove ALL processed sugar would be my first recommendation i suppose. I have seen people who have done this have extreem reversals in there physique and health.
like i just said in another post more data on the link to processed sugar and diabetes is out today.
^^which is why I italicized one single, simple thing. But if the goal is to cut all refined sugar from the diet, then one might hold that as a goal despite the lack of realism, and take small steps towards getting there. If it is something that really makes such a large difference, then every step closer to it would be beneficial, theoretically. Even if it never reached, and the person trying only ever gets halfway there, then that is something.
Obviously, I take a much different approach to things than Anti does. Not an all-or-nothing person by any means.
Either way, I would question this- you mention the health benefits for the individual, but do you also believe it to be the one change that would make the most environmental impact?
I see refined sugar as more of an ecological benefit than a personal health benefit, the benefit of un-refined sugar is that less energy is used to consolidate, refine, and distribute it (three stages of heating and centrifuging for table sugar, biotic processing for corn syrup). As a former chemistry student, I know refined sugar is just filtered sugar, chemically it is indistinct from unrefined sugar, it is still some combination of glucose w/ or without another sugar attached. Either way, your body will break it down to glucose for energy production within the body cells. Saying eating refined sugar is bad for you is the equivalent of saying drinking filtered water is bad for you. You just get less other stuff with it.
As for the LEED for diet, it will always be limited by local idiosyncrasies, if you are allergic or in need of a special diet, you don't get the points. Your example for instance, not all cholesterol is bad, some of it is really good for you.
j
Not trying to sound sarcastic here, but the single most important thing to remove from your diet isn't just one product or another.
I truly believe that the single most good anyone can do for themselves and for the environment is to research what it is you are putting into your body and make simple smart choices about what is acceptable or not to you. Gut choices are not good for your or ethical for the most part.
If you know whats good for you or not, or whats good for the environment or our economy or not then at least you have the ABILITY to make a choice should you choose to.
Honest choices work best, and for each person they are different.
rationalist
i was referring to the one change making the most environmental impact as well
i think that is definitely true
it works health-wise and environment-wise
before i finished school and began working, i never lived in a place where i was able to take public transportation to work, i was always dependent on my car
now i have been working for 3 years and taking the train in every morning
i feel that is something that makes a huge difference, and it is just one thing
unfortunately for the rest of us you pigheaded, judgmental fuck, that's all you share with ghandi.
sorry to be so blunt people, but this guy is an unending stream of effluent.
anti, you seem, in general and on occasion, like a reasonably intellectual dude, but in reality, i don't think any kind of meaningful conversation is possible with you.
i have known way too many self-righteous, vegan activists in my years as a fringe dweller to have any more stamina for dealing with the travesty and hubris of your argument.
instead of accepting that LIFE IS COMPROMISE you retreat back to your self-inflated sense of importance owing to your perceived efforts towards saving the world. it, and you, are bullshit.
wanna' save the world? learn to speak, eat, drive, and share like the rest of us, maybe work on your people skillz.
i thought that when you tried to take away our beer that it was bad, but now it's completely and unaccountably official...anything you say is to be given the same amount of credence as FOX news and Rush Limbaugh.
brer- yeah, I understand that. I was just thinking that for someone who is new to considering an issue, it can be easier and more effective to start out making one change. Over time they may do more research and incorporate other changes. Look at my question as searching for a good gateway, not a magic bullet.
And hey, it's gotten a more productive discussion going!
i do have an unmet need that i would like to share.
i need to NOT be bombarded by self-righteously indignant ignoramuses who claim to be helping to save the world through their personal choices.
why do i have this need?
because i fervently believe that people who behave as you do are in fact doing a disservice to the greater movement towards eco-efficiency, improved public health and better agriculture.
your rank judgments and holier-than-thou attitudes turn people off to the very ideals you so ineloquently espouse.
would you like to help me meet this as yet unmet need?
pushing the envelope and spreading awareness to get people to feel, because the root of those emotions are based on intrinsic things we all share. what good is the philosopher who doesn't hurt anybodies feelings
i suppose we should all change our ways because it pisses you off Anti?
you are quite arrogant
it pisses me off when uppity vegans talk down to the world because they think they are better than everyone else
you arent trying to spread awareness, you are just bragging and saying you are better than us
when in reality, no one knows each other here and what we are really like
if you are so into saving the world, why dont you turn off your computer and go do something about it
go protest at shoprite and yell at people who dont buy organic
jafidler
i'll meet you at Sonic for a nice big double cheeseburger
we can discuss the food-factory i am working on that uses thermal oil to run all the baking lines
its a leed building though, so i guess i can sleep at night
* Connection, acceptance, affection, appreciation, belonging, cooperation, communication, closeness, community, companionship, compassion, consideration, consistency, empathy, inclusion, intimacy, love, mutuality, nurturing, respect/self-respect, safety, security, stability, support, to know and be known, to see and be seen, to understand and be understood, trust, warmth
* Honesty, authenticity, integrity, presence
* Play, joy, humor
* Peace, beauty, communion, ease, equality, harmony, inspiration, order
* Physical well-being, air, food, movement/exercise, rest/sleep, sexual expression, safety, shelter, touch, water
* Meaning, awareness, celebration of life, challenge, clarity, competence, consciousness, contribution, creativity, discovery, efficacy, effectiveness, growth, hope, learning, mourning, participation, purpose, self-expression, stimulation, to matter, understanding
* Autonomy, choice, freedom, independence, space, spontaneity
here a the non exclusive list for reference and remember we all share them as life, and the way we meet them may be different , but there is always a way we can all reach satisfaction if we take the strategies that enable that goal.
its funny because the more energy efficient method of running the baking lines is this thermal oil system, as opposed to gas-powered baking lines
its not something that would exactly fall in the category of sustainable or environmentally friendly, and would probably have certain people bitching at them because of it
but this was something that was going to be built one way or another, and because of the team i work on, its now a much more efficient and environmentally friendly building that any of their previous factories
life doesnt have to be all or nothing, considering you cant stop the entire world and make them think as you do
but if you do what you can, and take what you can, it can make a difference
those who say you have to live a certain one way or eat one kind of diet or only work on projects that are 100% sustainable are not realistic at all and do not live their lives that way
they may say they do, but they dont
its impossible to be 100% like that in the real world
we should all strive to be, but to bash on someone who isnt at your level, makes you look foolish
there in lies the problem with communism: authoritarianism and lack of choice, the same could be said for any system when the wrong person gets into the hierarchy.
we are at archinect, anarchist architect haven. hard to forget :D
we MUST end the hegemony of the USGBC in defining sustainability. we don't need a LEED-Life rating system any more then you need carpet in a building to get the EQ4.3 credit.
just by being aware of your impact and attempting to minimize it, you've already done more then 99% of americans. but you don't need a certification for what you eat to gain the Prius effect (watching your gas mileage= changing how you drive).
Reducing beef/dairy makes a huge difference, but so would eating at home (sorry ML) as restaurants are inherently inefficient/unhealthy places. At home, you don't leave your oven at 800 degrees for 12 hours just to use it for a few minutes every now and then. At home, we turn off the burners on the stove. At home, we (hopefully) buy exactly what we will use and cook healthy portions. At home, most of us don't use transfats or throw butter into everything or buy endangered fish.
avoiding bananas & imported fruits eliminates your responsibility fo their transportation footprint - but the impact of getting sick will negate any savings you accrued earlier by not eating healthy foods. There was a recent study of carbon footprints across the demographic spectrum and folks in a hospital generated the most carbon emissions - more so then the hummer driving mcmansion owner living in the exurbs. SO DON'T GET SICK.
but if you didnt have the LEED system set up, tons of buildings that would never care to bother with any sort of sustainable qualities would continue to just build the cheapest way
with LEED, it is a PR boost that enables buildings to be at least somewhat sustainable when they otherwise wouldnt have been able to
until the codes are brought up to speed, sustainability-wise, LEED is the best bet to keep us heading in that direction
treekiller
eating at home does wonders both for your health and your wallet
i try to just make different kinds of food for dinner, so at least i get some variety at home, while still staying healthier and cheaper
many people dont realize how easy it is to cook sometimes and think they have to go out for a nice meal
doomed: green professional w/o green diet?
You all do realize that the U.S. would experience the most biblical famine in human history if a virus took out all the corn right? Especially field corn.
rationalist
thats what i thought, i just wanted to make sure
since there are foods that are good for you that probably arent environmentally friendly
you know, i find it hard to find anything that doesnt have an environmental impact, unless you grow all your food in your backyard and dont have to have it shipped to a store near you or anything like that
But there is a difference between a virus taking out all the corn in one fell swoop and the idea of making efforts to diversify our diet and food economy. I love corn- half my family is from Iowa, and corn is engrained into our culture. I love the white sweet kind with little tiny kernals, for boiling at home, the big yellow kind on the barbeque... and from my own youth in the southwest, corn in tortillas, in tamales, in breads. It's all tasty, it's healthier than the refined floury breads so many people eat, and it helps support my family. That doesn't mean that the over-reliance on it to sweeten everything we eat isn't potentially a problem.
Oh, i love me some corn too, but its the fact that our whole food economy revolves around field corn that concerns me.
i love me some corn too
i've recently been introduced to corn chowder
mmmm mmmm
but yes, just like with our energy sources, there should be multiple food sources that we depend on, so if something happens to one source, we arent completely screwed
yes remove ALL processed sugar would be my first recommendation i suppose. I have seen people who have done this have extreem reversals in there physique and health.
like i just said in another post more data on the link to processed sugar and diabetes is out today.
Organic Dates?
Figs?
2. komhucha metabolized from pure raw organic cane sugar
well we need to be realistic here too
the entire world will not suddenly switch off of every day products in the store to komhucha
realistically, people will not have removed all processed sugar from their diet overnight
be the change you wish to see in the world.
ghandi
^^which is why I italicized one single, simple thing. But if the goal is to cut all refined sugar from the diet, then one might hold that as a goal despite the lack of realism, and take small steps towards getting there. If it is something that really makes such a large difference, then every step closer to it would be beneficial, theoretically. Even if it never reached, and the person trying only ever gets halfway there, then that is something.
Obviously, I take a much different approach to things than Anti does. Not an all-or-nothing person by any means.
Either way, I would question this- you mention the health benefits for the individual, but do you also believe it to be the one change that would make the most environmental impact?
i share his BD
Think of it as a LEED point system
LEED diet for human beings
4 points for exercise
2 for lowered cholesterol intake
5 for 0 cholesterol
etc etc
it's far more complex and a additive approach just like in LEED is not ideal
therefor i advocate a holistic approach
I see refined sugar as more of an ecological benefit than a personal health benefit, the benefit of un-refined sugar is that less energy is used to consolidate, refine, and distribute it (three stages of heating and centrifuging for table sugar, biotic processing for corn syrup). As a former chemistry student, I know refined sugar is just filtered sugar, chemically it is indistinct from unrefined sugar, it is still some combination of glucose w/ or without another sugar attached. Either way, your body will break it down to glucose for energy production within the body cells. Saying eating refined sugar is bad for you is the equivalent of saying drinking filtered water is bad for you. You just get less other stuff with it.
As for the LEED for diet, it will always be limited by local idiosyncrasies, if you are allergic or in need of a special diet, you don't get the points. Your example for instance, not all cholesterol is bad, some of it is really good for you.
j
Not trying to sound sarcastic here, but the single most important thing to remove from your diet isn't just one product or another.
I truly believe that the single most good anyone can do for themselves and for the environment is to research what it is you are putting into your body and make simple smart choices about what is acceptable or not to you. Gut choices are not good for your or ethical for the most part.
If you know whats good for you or not, or whats good for the environment or our economy or not then at least you have the ABILITY to make a choice should you choose to.
Honest choices work best, and for each person they are different.
:)
All external sources of cholesterol are negative, clogging artery walls
Our body makes it's own good cholesterol
Not eating any i have a perfect score every time i take the test consistently.
what would frank lloyd wright eat?
rationalist
i was referring to the one change making the most environmental impact as well
i think that is definitely true
it works health-wise and environment-wise
before i finished school and began working, i never lived in a place where i was able to take public transportation to work, i was always dependent on my car
now i have been working for 3 years and taking the train in every morning
i feel that is something that makes a huge difference, and it is just one thing
when i make up my own tests, i get a perfect score every time too
its amazing how that works
you think cholesterol testing computers lie?
-antisthenes
unfortunately for the rest of us you pigheaded, judgmental fuck, that's all you share with ghandi.
sorry to be so blunt people, but this guy is an unending stream of effluent.
anti, you seem, in general and on occasion, like a reasonably intellectual dude, but in reality, i don't think any kind of meaningful conversation is possible with you.
i have known way too many self-righteous, vegan activists in my years as a fringe dweller to have any more stamina for dealing with the travesty and hubris of your argument.
instead of accepting that LIFE IS COMPROMISE you retreat back to your self-inflated sense of importance owing to your perceived efforts towards saving the world. it, and you, are bullshit.
wanna' save the world? learn to speak, eat, drive, and share like the rest of us, maybe work on your people skillz.
i thought that when you tried to take away our beer that it was bad, but now it's completely and unaccountably official...anything you say is to be given the same amount of credence as FOX news and Rush Limbaugh.
seriously.
rant over.
brer- yeah, I understand that. I was just thinking that for someone who is new to considering an issue, it can be easier and more effective to start out making one change. Over time they may do more research and incorporate other changes. Look at my question as searching for a good gateway, not a magic bullet.
And hey, it's gotten a more productive discussion going!
how much energy are you wasting with those cholesterol testing computers?
all the resources wasted
why are we testing computers for cholesterol?
(sorry rationalist - right when you had the discussion back on track! i go and run my mouth!)
you didnt run it off track mighty
this conversation has run its course when we have to listen to constant bragging about nothing
mightylittle™ you have a unmet need you are upset about that you would like to share?
that i told you beer ruins more cells than most any other substance is good knowledge, make use of it how you please.
It pisses me off when doctors and nurses smoke.
agreed
i feel the same about fellow LEED professionals who don't eat organic.
i do have an unmet need that i would like to share.
i need to NOT be bombarded by self-righteously indignant ignoramuses who claim to be helping to save the world through their personal choices.
why do i have this need?
because i fervently believe that people who behave as you do are in fact doing a disservice to the greater movement towards eco-efficiency, improved public health and better agriculture.
your rank judgments and holier-than-thou attitudes turn people off to the very ideals you so ineloquently espouse.
would you like to help me meet this as yet unmet need?
pushing the envelope and spreading awareness to get people to feel, because the root of those emotions are based on intrinsic things we all share. what good is the philosopher who doesn't hurt anybodies feelings
ps
you are not a philosopher
i suppose we should all change our ways because it pisses you off Anti?
you are quite arrogant
it pisses me off when uppity vegans talk down to the world because they think they are better than everyone else
you arent trying to spread awareness, you are just bragging and saying you are better than us
when in reality, no one knows each other here and what we are really like
if you are so into saving the world, why dont you turn off your computer and go do something about it
go protest at shoprite and yell at people who dont buy organic
that is an evaluation not a need
i am not upset i am having fun at this actually
i refer to the rant when i speak to mightylittle being angry.
raw foodist..
protest ? how about direct action!
what direct action do you take?
an evaluative judgment even. like something bush might do
what i say is based on facts and observation not judgment i know better than that as a practitioner of non violence in everything i do.
if you want to dispute the facts do it with reason and logic not emotional out burts
marmkid that is a matter of security culture.
so what kind of direct action do you take?
this one is getting ugly fast. may i suggest we all go out for a kombucha and a burger while we discuss our leed certified designs?
i didnt dispute your facts
what is a matter of security culture?
jafidler
i'll meet you at Sonic for a nice big double cheeseburger
we can discuss the food-factory i am working on that uses thermal oil to run all the baking lines
its a leed building though, so i guess i can sleep at night
funny, marm. i worked on a biodiesel facility that converted grease from fast food restaurants into diesel fuel.
Anti, you remind me of the communist greeting card from Futurama
After the glorious robot revolution, there will be no more alcohol, only clean synthetic (read:organic in anti's case) fuels.
What?! No booze! Dasvedanya comrade!
* Honesty, authenticity, integrity, presence
* Play, joy, humor
* Peace, beauty, communion, ease, equality, harmony, inspiration, order
* Physical well-being, air, food, movement/exercise, rest/sleep, sexual expression, safety, shelter, touch, water
* Meaning, awareness, celebration of life, challenge, clarity, competence, consciousness, contribution, creativity, discovery, efficacy, effectiveness, growth, hope, learning, mourning, participation, purpose, self-expression, stimulation, to matter, understanding
* Autonomy, choice, freedom, independence, space, spontaneity
here a the non exclusive list for reference and remember we all share them as life, and the way we meet them may be different , but there is always a way we can all reach satisfaction if we take the strategies that enable that goal.
its funny because the more energy efficient method of running the baking lines is this thermal oil system, as opposed to gas-powered baking lines
its not something that would exactly fall in the category of sustainable or environmentally friendly, and would probably have certain people bitching at them because of it
but this was something that was going to be built one way or another, and because of the team i work on, its now a much more efficient and environmentally friendly building that any of their previous factories
life doesnt have to be all or nothing, considering you cant stop the entire world and make them think as you do
but if you do what you can, and take what you can, it can make a difference
those who say you have to live a certain one way or eat one kind of diet or only work on projects that are 100% sustainable are not realistic at all and do not live their lives that way
they may say they do, but they dont
its impossible to be 100% like that in the real world
we should all strive to be, but to bash on someone who isnt at your level, makes you look foolish
there in lies the problem with communism: authoritarianism and lack of choice, the same could be said for any system when the wrong person gets into the hierarchy.
we are at archinect, anarchist architect haven. hard to forget :D
we MUST end the hegemony of the USGBC in defining sustainability. we don't need a LEED-Life rating system any more then you need carpet in a building to get the EQ4.3 credit.
just by being aware of your impact and attempting to minimize it, you've already done more then 99% of americans. but you don't need a certification for what you eat to gain the Prius effect (watching your gas mileage= changing how you drive).
Reducing beef/dairy makes a huge difference, but so would eating at home (sorry ML) as restaurants are inherently inefficient/unhealthy places. At home, you don't leave your oven at 800 degrees for 12 hours just to use it for a few minutes every now and then. At home, we turn off the burners on the stove. At home, we (hopefully) buy exactly what we will use and cook healthy portions. At home, most of us don't use transfats or throw butter into everything or buy endangered fish.
avoiding bananas & imported fruits eliminates your responsibility fo their transportation footprint - but the impact of getting sick will negate any savings you accrued earlier by not eating healthy foods. There was a recent study of carbon footprints across the demographic spectrum and folks in a hospital generated the most carbon emissions - more so then the hummer driving mcmansion owner living in the exurbs. SO DON'T GET SICK.
but if you didnt have the LEED system set up, tons of buildings that would never care to bother with any sort of sustainable qualities would continue to just build the cheapest way
with LEED, it is a PR boost that enables buildings to be at least somewhat sustainable when they otherwise wouldnt have been able to
until the codes are brought up to speed, sustainability-wise, LEED is the best bet to keep us heading in that direction
treekiller
eating at home does wonders both for your health and your wallet
i try to just make different kinds of food for dinner, so at least i get some variety at home, while still staying healthier and cheaper
many people dont realize how easy it is to cook sometimes and think they have to go out for a nice meal
treekiller good info.
We're all domed! Domed, I say!
what do i gain if i eat a prius?
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