I've got a decent 2br in Crown Heights, rent's 650 a month.

Lower manhattan is bloody expensive, BTW.

So is it worth it to try to live in Manhattan on a starting architect's salary? I know it's gentrified as hell but I really love the whole soho/noho/village/lower-east-side area. I think I actually like it more because it's gentrified. It makes me feel comfortable. I also prefer newly renovated kitchens and bathrooms, and I hate insects and accumulations of grime. I also have a phobia of taking subways underneath rivers (I guess the one that goes over the river to Williamsburg by Peter Luger is underground...).

*rephrase that to say that particular subway is on a bridge (good) as opposed to under water (bad).

who has any suggestions for neighborhoods along the A C E?

i'd live in brooklyn over manhattan any day. i'm actually leaving my place in august... looking for someone to take over the lease... but i guess thats too late for you? anyway, some great/safe/affordable areas include clinton hill (thats where i'm at) fort greene, park slope, and many more. any of these are way cheaper than manhattan, and in my opinion much nicer places to live.

my wife dragged me out to brooklyn (reluctantly) and now that we live here, i'd *never* move back across the river. absolutely love brooklyn! we used to live in prospect heights- great neighborhood and close to all of the conveniences of prime park slope, but much cheaper. one of the secrets to living in brooklyn is being near express trains, e.g. 2/3 at grand army plaza, or near the atlantic ave/ pacific street stop, which is where we are now. total of 10 subway lines including 8 express trains. you can get to most places in manhattan in less than 30 mins should you choose to. fort greene and clinton hill are great too, and on the A/C.

i just figure, if i'm moving to a great city, why live in the suburbs?

Im paying 500 in bushwick, large room (about 15X20), private backyard, brand new building (first tenant) equidistant from the L and M trains. drawback: living with 3 other people. But paying that little I can't complain about anything. I've bounced around the same neighborhood for the last few years and I like it. all it takes is exhausting craigslist trolling (refreshing every 30 minutes), keeping a checkbook on you, and always having yourself or a roommate available at all times to look at a place. it's insane how fast by owner rentals get snatched up

Nicholas- have you been to Brooklyn recently? I wouldn't call it "the suburbs"

ok, first of all, brooklyn is definitely not the suburbs. years ago when i moved to new york, i was a bit apprehensive about moving to brooklyn (i lived in the east village for one year), but i did it and i fell in love with brooklyn. there are plenty of great restaurants, bars, shops, museums, parks, etc. one of the best things about brooklyn is that it's more chill than manhattan. you can actually walk down a quiet street once in a while and go to a bar where people aren't packed in like sardines. trust me, you will come to appreciate this after living in new york city for a while. also, there are many beautiful neighborhoods in brooklyn, some of which resemble areas like the village or the upper east side (for instance, brooklyn heights or park slope). the key is to choose a good neighborhood (all of one's people mentioned above are nice) and an apartment that is close to a convenient subway line (i.e. not the G train).
secondly, manhattan definitely has its own share of "insects and accumulations of grime." my uncle had a very nice apartment on the upper east side that had a mouse problem. no one is immune in new york. the problem really exists from building to building regardless of income level or neighborhood.

i could give you better suggestions if i had some more information on what you're looking for. for instance, how much are you're willing to spend on rent per month and how many bedrooms are you looking for? also, where will you be working in manhattan? (that could determine which subway line you decide to live next to)

ok i guess i was exagerrating. and living in LA (though I'm from Philly) I haven't made it much past the island on my New York trips. I guess it's all a matter of geography - if the river weren't there and Brooklyn were the same landmass as Manhattan, I wouldn't have this wrong impression.

I am actually working in Brooklyn, in Dumbo, but my girlfriend is working in Tribeca. were hoping to stay under 1700 for a studio or 1BR but realize me may not.

park slope, boerum hill, carroll gardens, brooklyn heights, fort greene, and clinton hill are all very nice neighborhoods in brooklyn with *mostly* good subway access to DUMBO and TriBeCa. all of these neighborhoods can get very pricey, but if you search long enough on craigslist you should be able to find a one bedroom or studio for $2000/month or less in one of them.

i can't afford $2000/month. That's $24000 a year, which is about 80% of what a starting intern with a masters makes in new york!!

I started off paying 1300 for a two bedroom in Kensington, which is a little known neighborhood just south of Windsor Terrace in Brooklyn. For some reason nobody lives here. It is a great neighborhood, a 5 minute walk to Prospect Park...and dare I say...not really gentrified YET. I would recommend it to anyone just starting out. Check it out on Craigslist.

you should not accept a job that pays you 30k.
if you already did, you should quit.

you can probably scrape by on 30k, but you'll have an extremely hard time affording any of the neighborhoods listed previously, except maybe if you live with a bunch of roommates in bushwick, as one person suggested.

or if you really want to be on the A/C line, maybe you can find a lovely place out by JFK!

Im not the one who is making 30K. i am however the one who wants to live on the ACE. Also, I will be living with my girlfriend and we are both making over 30k. is it safe to say that we should be able to find a place in one of those areas?

Yep, you should be able to. Clinton Hill and Fort Greene are great.
Although you can always find great deals on craigslist, I would estimate that nice 1BRs in those 2 neighborhoodswill go for $1800, give or take.

For that price you might as well live in Manhattan. You could find a one bedroom in the LES for that much. AND you can where tight jeans.

OR live a block away in crown heights and pay half that.

stay in park slope.

i haven't ever gotten a job offer for more than $28k

I'd take hipsters over mommies and their humvee strollers anyday. Stay out of Park Slope.

this is all solid info, but damn I was hoping for at least one lead on an actual place...

you dissin' my hood over_under?

hey nicolas, any particular reason you've decided to hijack this thread?

chaptertwo, for the actual place i'm afraid craigslist is your best bet. it's challanging, and it may take a few weeks of intense searching, but you should be able to find something decent and affordable in an agreeable neighborhood.

i moved up here last may with the gf. after 3 weeks of looking we found a spacious studio (550-600 sf) with a sleeping loft on 23rd and lexington (north edge of the gramercy park neighborhood) for $1800/month. we're both a few years out of school, pre-pro degrees, no trust funds, blablabla, and we have no problem affording that rent. less than a block to the [4,5] 6 train.

now, as facader says, you can pay about this much and live in the lower east side or the east village etc, but chances are your quarters are gonna be tight and you may be on the 6th floor of a walk-up. it's a trade-off. we have a roomy place, but the neighborhood isn't nearly as interesting as the lower east side, etc. guess that comes down to personal preference/priorities.

$1800/month for <600 sf.

I'm kinda glad NY doesn't appeal to me.

And yes, I know that's "reasonable" in NYC. Holy Jesus.

...i have a friend from undergrad who just graduated and is starting to work in ny making 50...id look for a better job...

Hey AP...anymore apartments available in your building...that is a great deal! I pay 1850 in the Upper East Side for a little more than 300 sq ft.

That is the difference, facader. for 1850 on the UES, you get 300sf. on the LES, for 1800 you could do a little better maybe, but for 1800 in clinton hill or fort greene you get a fantastic quiet neighborhood and most likely you'll have an 800sf floor-thru apartment in a brownstone. or you could do crown heights for half that.

Sweet Jesus! $1800/mo for a one bedroom? I hope you're not architects.

^That kids is one of the biggest reasons I left Manhattan.

facader (and chaptertwo), i'll look into it...though i know a lot of people in the building have been there for a while, and new units get snagged pretty quickly.

it's new york. housing is expensive, but to live and work in this city...well, i think it's worth every penny. and yes, you can find a bit more space in some areas of brooklyn, and frankly if i'm here a while longer i may move out there, but for the first couple of years i want to be in the city.

Don't get me wrong. My intentions are to move up to NYC within the next few years, but I need to be making better money first.

I just don't understand how some of you guys are actually paying for this.

I used to live in Brooklyn, and I absolutely loved it. Would move back there in a heartbeat. But my gf graduated and had to live in the city, she didnt like all the bugs in my apartment and the landlord constantly looking into our bedroom in Brooklyn. So...we moved to the Upper East Side, which I hate, but it was all we could afford in the city. It helps to have two incomes, although we are both architects. It also helps to work for gigantic corporate firms.

Bugs do seem to be an issue in BK, then again, mice are the issue in Manhattan from my experience.

i'd take mice/rats/roaches over bedbugs any day

I am still having a hard time understanding how you guys pay $1800/month in rent.

Say a person paying that much makes 50k a year and lives in NYC. That obviously means that you will be actually taking home about 28k a year after the anal molestation you get from taxes.

In the year you pay 21k in rent. That does not include the other stuff too such as bills. Basically, you are really left with a $5000 for spending each year.

haha nah apurimatic. im just a kid raised on a farm in kentucky. dont know shit about shit when it comes to up east, which is becoming evident as i look for an apartment in philly.. only been to brooklyn a handful of times... i have some friends that live in park slope though, and as far as i could tell its a pretty low key part of town.

If you read AP's earlier post, it says that a couple share the studio for $1800/ month; i.e. $900 per person. That's a little over 10k annually in rent. Completely doable. I gues the bottom line is the ideal situation for living in the city is for a couple to share a studio/ 1 bedroom.

Nicholas Benjamin- salary of 28k in NYC? I would seriously re-consider the places you're looking to work at or negotiate harder. I think 40k is about the lowest you should start at.

also, don't forget that if you live in new york you don't have the added expense of a car. car payments, insurance, gas, oil changes, maintenance, etc. can add up to thousands a year. this doesn't exactly balance out the higher rent for the city, but it does make a difference if you think about it.

Brooklyn is the place to be. Manhattan has lost its character from all of the gentrification that a lot of people have already covered. If you want to live next to a Chipotle, a Duane Reade, Starbucks and the McMansions in the sky, move to 6th Ave between 23rd St and 28th St.

There really is no advantage of living in the city when it comes to transportation. There are a lot of trains in Brooklyn as well and either way you can pay $80 and ride unlimited for a month.

I moved to NY from Chicago and I spent quite a bit of time looking around neighborhoods that were affordable. My salary to start was $42k and I couldn't afford to live in the city. Correction, I could have lived in a 300 sq ft studio with my girlfriend (at the time) on the Upper East Side (1st Ave), but I would have been about 8 blocks away from the triain. By no way was it worth it. Instead, I live in a 450 sq ft loft (all one space) in Brooklyn (Bed-Stuy) for $1175 (including a parking spot). Did I mention that the back yard is about 10 brownstones wide?! I am two blocks away from the train and one block away from the LIRR. I can walk outside my door and end up at Long Beach or Central Park if I wanted to.

What do you have to say about areas like Bed Stuy, Bedford, Crown Heights?
What does "rough" mean in Brooklyn. Could I be comfortable with my girlfriend walking home in these types of areas at night, or is it worth paying a bit more for a more affluent brooklyn neighborhood?

chapter 2
i think bed stuy used to be worse..it's starting to come up now cause everyone is getting priced out of williamsburg.

so.

i'm the opposite of pretty much everyone on this thread. i lived in brooklyn for three years..it was good...but the commute was at least 45 minutes and sucked quite often..and that's in park slope. there were a lot of times the trains were just too packed to get in...it didn't happen too often..but a commute adds to any day regardless of how long it is...and if you work at least 9-7 adding an hour kinda sucks...

soooooo....i moved to chinatown. my commute is 10 minutes by bike. i lived in a huge loft for a year..and now i live at the end of ludlow. my rent was 900 in the loft (2500 sq ft), but now is a more realistic 1300...but my room is about 400 sq ft...i think both of these are pretty uncommon...but it's possible to find cheap places in nyc.

also if you like to drink in the city it kinda sucks to live in bklyn. a cab ride is 20 bucks and the subway is far less common at 4 in the morning..i've really enjoyed being able to walk home. the bars in bklyn are just as crowded as those in manhattan...but there are great places to drink pretty much everywhere in the 5 buroughs. one of my favorite bars is fortunately right across the st.

Ronin, don't kid yourself, Brooklyn is just as gentrified as Manhattan, and for the record, gentrification and commercialization are different things.

What's scary about Brooklyn is it is gentrifying faster than Manhattan ever did. It took 30 some odd years for the LES and east village to go from skid row to what it is now. Its only taken about 10 years for Williamsburg to go from 'hood to condos and areas like park slope, fort greene and bushwick seem to be going even faster. The major problem with this is rent, pretty soon the only place for the working class and newly minted professionals (us) to live at an affordable rate is gonna be Jersey because even Queens and the Bronx are going fast.

chaptertwo, be cautious about looking at places in bed-stuy. it has gotten better in recent years, but its still a bad neighborhood. i live right on the border of clinton hill and bed-stuy right now and it's not too bad. i would suggest that you don't look at anything east of bedford ave. (maybe a few blocks past, but no more).

was helping my friend who want to seek for a roomate or individual living in Clinton hill, near the Pratt Institute. please PM me if you have the deal.

thanks

Facader. Although SOME neighborhoods in Brooklyn are gentrified (Park Slope, Carrol Gardens, Fort Greene, Williamsburg) I don't think you can even compare it to Manhattan. What neighborhood can you live in Manhattan and pay less than $1200/month in rent?

And lets not really get into the development trends. Gentrification and commercialization go hand in hand. Believe me, I understand that they have different definitions, but there would be no gentrification if there were no commercial interests.