I know you can't really answer this question for me, but any thoughts from a professional standpoint would be very helpful.
I am originally from Nashville, TN and I graduated from Wash U with a BFA . I applied to architecture school for pre-professional (3+ yrs) degree.
I was accepted at UVA (one of my top choices). I was very excited about the idea of attending, but now I was also accepted to GA tech with a full ride (tuition + stipend). I don't have financial aid info back from UVA yet and I'm still waiting on a few schools for responses.
What is the benefit to a slightly more prestigious program versus going to school for basically free?
Go to UVA if that's where you want to go. Do you want to spend the rest of your life wondering what would have happened if you had gone to your first choice instead of settling? I took on $60k of debt to go to my first choice (was also offered a full ride somewhere else) and have no regrets.
Also, keep in mind that your offers are negotiable to a certain extent. There's nothing wrong with calling UVA, telling them you were offered a full ride somewhere else, and asking if there's anything they can do to help you decide. I did the same and got over $20k in scholarships. Never hurts to ask.
Going by prestige alone, I think the biggest consideration is where you think you'll want to work when you get out. If you plan to stay in the south GA Tech will be a good choice, if you plan to work in DC or anywhere north of it, UVA is probably a better choice.
That said, going to a school where you feel comfortable with the program, the people and the facilities, where you feel you'll have the most opportunities to study the things that interest you, and where you feel you can achieve the most success both academically and in terms of personal growth will get you much farther in your career than going by prestige alone. Ultimately, employers really aren't going to put that much emphasis on where you went to school, especially once you've gained a couple of years worth of experience.
WAIT! Dont do it. Debt free graduation will allow you so many more options after school. The debt you rack up in school will make you tethered to your job and limit your flexibility in your career path later. The name schools, and they change every year, offer a few better interviews after you graduate. Thats all. Is that worth 30-40-50 or more thousnad dollars of debt to you?
mdler's right ... what we want to hire are emerging professionals who offer a good portfolio, strong people skills, intelligence, a great attitude and a willingness to learn, and an eagerness to work effectively as a part of a team.
not sure many of those factors are heavily dependent on where you go to school ... they're more of a reflection on who you are as a person.
a "name" school might draw my attention when reading the resume ... but the name never has - and probably never will - overcome what I see in the portfolio and who I see across the table from me during the interview.
As someone who has high amoutn of debt from previosu graduate degree and as someone who is considering going back for anothe rin a design related field....
Go for the option that will leave you debt free. Speakign from personal experience coming straight out fof grad school with all that debt definetly (at least for the short term) limited my post school options...
Besides UGA is from what i have seen a good school. It is actually on my list. Especially because of the links the design college has with the environemntal ethics and ecology certfificate program they have.....
speaking as someone with $80,000 in student loan debt, i say go to the best school and the place you most want to be. i pay $339/month on my debt (30 year plan). $339/month is not a lot of money for a good education. i am still an intern and do not feel encumbered by the debt at all. (i also have no credit card debt.) in 5-10 years, it will be even less of a burden given inflation and wage increases. as someone else wrote, if you go to a school simply because it's cheaper, you'll always wonder what if.
as somebody with almost six figures of student loan debt from a name school, if I was going to do it again and had a free ride opportunity, I'd jump at the chance to be debt free
blue collar background, 15k debt from self-funded undergrad education, will be facing this decision in one year, can't see myself making a choice that will put me in 75-100k of additional debt, when there are options that will leave me with significantly less debt, if not debt free.
*but. i haven't yet faced the decision, and who knows how i'll feel when the time comes.
I'll be honest - I couldnt even tell you what the "top" architecture schools in the country are. I know of IIT and UIC. I have a friend who went to UT so Im assuming theyre good.
Thats actualy what the interviewer is going to care about your school. Take advantage - this may be the last proffesion your school DOESNT matter. Be glad.
it does matter where you go in terms of what you are exposed to conceptually, but your employers won't care if you have good skills. we had a student apply to our firm a few weeks ago who went to penn and the gsd, and he didn't even get an interview as far as i know. no one is going to hire you just because you went to a prestigious school.
message not being, "don't go to these schools," but be wary of what you need to know in the workplace. much like your first car, your first job is supposed to suck.
my point is don't worry about the employer yet. concentrate more on where you will get the best education. after you graduate, if you do get into big time debt, factor that into negotiating your salary. don't accept a salary less than x dollars because you will need to make x to pay your student loans. in the meantime, you will have gotten a great aducation which is worth every penny. trust me, i can tell the difference between graduates of a good school from those that bumbled through a mediocre technical program (not at all saying that is ga tech; it's a fine school from what i know of it).
"if you do get into big time debt, factor that into negotiating your salary."
what a crock ... I agree that you should go where you get the "best value" in an education ... but, your employer isn't going to pay you more simply because you have a bunch of debt ... in fact, if you use that argument to support the idea that you need to be paid more, you'll be thought an idiot by most employers I know ... that same argument doesn't wash for those who have more kids or who have a bigger apartment or want to take fancy vacations. why should it work for student debt?
pay is based on what you can contribute ... period! especially in an economy headed for a recession.
a fancy degree for a big name university does NOT mean you can contribute more.
babs, you misunderstood my post. i'm not saying that you come out and tell an employer how much debt you have. i'm saying that when you're searching for a job, make a budget, and don't accept anything less than what your budget will allow. for example, when i left school, i knew that i would need at least $36,000/yr. when i was receiving offers, i automatically rejected any offer less than that. i think i probably missed out one good firm because they could not pay me what i needed, but it certainly was not difficult finding an employer who could.
yes ... I understand that perspective and recognize that everybody has the right to set their own price for the services they offer ... but, I was concerned that you might be inadvertently misleading students, or soon to be students, that they could run up any amount of debt and expect their future employers to cover the tab.
while I applaud your discipline to hold out for what you want and need, I also urge those in, or entering college, to think really hard about accumulating a huge amount of debt before entering the workforce.
IMHO, there is a truism in our industry that some firms pay higher wages for a specific reason -- i.e. they're such horrible places to work that they MUST pay high wages to attact any staff at all.
I always advise students not to back themselves into a corner where they have to take a job they're going to hate simply because they need the additional money to offset their student loans. that's a bad, bad situation in which to find oneself.
As someone who had over $75,000 in student loans after graduating from her second degree, I say go for the debt free option, especially if your decision is based purely on which school has more prestige. Employers don't really care where you go as long as you have a good portfolio/resume.
Federal Aid, I believe, is maxed out at $55,000 per individual. If you need more money above that than you either have to find scholarship, grants or private loans. From my experience scholarship and grants usually come to a person in small amounts, a couple thousand here, a couple thousand there. Still not a lot. You can always go the route of private loans but I warn, these loans often times have high percentages and have variable rates. At the present time my private student loan interest rate is something like %10. Because it's a private loan I cannot consolidate it into my other federal loans.
But I digress. I guess all I can say is take some time and think seriously about your options. All the opinions you have received here so far have been great.
jafidler - How the hell are you only paying $339 a month on your student loans? Seriously, I really want to know. Email me.... PLEASE!
please, for the love of god, GO FOR THE FREE RIDE!
ep said it best...high debt will keep you tethered to your job(s) forever. want to take that 3 month archi-tour of europe? sorry honey, you got billz to pay.
As someone who graduated from state schools with $0 in student loans, I'd say that hard work has gotten me to where I am now, not the prestige of the institutions I attended. In fact, working hard throughout school to pay for tuition instilled a good work ethic in me and provided an advantage-of-real-world-knowledge over those who didn't work their way through school.
Remember that getting scholarships is not the only way to graduate debt-free.
The beauty of design professions is that we can all see what you can do. Your portfolio speaks louder than any piece of paper.
That said, better schools will tend to produce better designers, which make better portfolios. Remember, as I am sure you know, that 95% of what you learn will be from fellow students, not the school or professors (and better schools will tend to have more talented studios).
schools do matter if you want introductions to starchitecture firms and want to see the kool lectures and participate in the special starchitectural events...but apart from that...
anyway isn't usa economy based on debt? that means you would be patriotic if you got as much as possible...
I know several people that did not go to big name schools that now work at starchitect firms. Many of them got hired into those firms right out of their little-known school. Ultimately, your portfolio is going to carry much more weight than the school you attended. I have seen many portfolios in my career and interviewed quite a few people. I have seen really great stuff from people that attended schools that you won't find on any "top ten" list and I saw some pretty awful stuff from the "top ten." And, I certainly saw the reverse, as well. My point is, I think you can get a pretty good education without going to a big name school and going to a big name school does not guarantee you a seat at the table. That being said, the top-rated schools get there for a reason. As stated above, you are more likely to be exposed to the very top of the profession at those schools. It may, or may not rub off on you, but you will certainly get exposure.
This discussion is just fostering the starchitecture world view of design and really shouldn't be a point of planning one's career. The profession has to get over the view that one person makes a building happen. Its just a very sad to see everyone try to justify one's own decision to spend more at one school vs. another and expect it be critical to their future career success. It appears that the cult of celebrity even exists in school envy.
Go to a good school, get a variety of work experiences in different office settings, learn from the good people you work along side with and be open to both the new and old dogs you meet. Don't rack up big debt...... last I checked no one has asked to see my diploma in 20 years of business.
let's ask this question: what does a "better" school get you?
- a better starting salary? probably not
- a better portfolio? doubtful
- better professors? hmmm - that's a tough one. every school has its share of certifiable flakes. my experience suggests the "better" schools have a bunch who are mostly interested in being theoretical and pushing you down roads that most firms won't / can't appreciate. but, in the end, you might understand architectural theory a little better (which, like a degree in poetry, won't help you pay off student loans)
- better contacts outside the department? quite possibly, if you ever get outside the department
- better classmates? same answer as "better professors"
- better lecture series? probably, if you feel that's important to being a good architect
- better career possibilities? not at all - that's entirely up to you
you gotta decide what's important to you and what price you're willing to pay. for my money, I'd go for the free ride.
then, after you graduate, come to see me - I'll give you a good job because it'll be clear you have a clear head sitting on your sholders
I'd encourage you to think about this in slightly different terms. Price and the reputation of a school might not be the most important factor in making a decision. Ultimately any amount of money you pay for your education will be wasted if you're not excited about the work you're doing. I'd encourage you to think about which of these schools is more in-line with your research interests. In the end, the school that will give you a more valuable education isn't the one that was cheaper or had a more reputable name, but the one that made you passionate about what you're doing and focused your design values in a way that will prepare you for the rest of your career.
You’re concerned about having huge debt to pay off, or not having a big name on your resume, but I believe that if your education allows you to love what it is you’re doing with your life, neither of those issues will bother you much in the long run.
Maybe we should start asking why is school so exspensive and when the hell did we start needing 5,6 or 7 years to become anarchitecture grad? What the hell is wrong with 4 years - the way it worked for the last 50 years.
good point! and also this goes into that HUGE discussion of why architects start off which low salaries in comparison to other professional schools (law, business, etc).
debt wouldnt be so hard to pay off with a starting salary of 60-80k!
I agree. My 4 year undergrad taught me as much as any school. Grad school was just playing and experimenting. Turned out to be great timing, as the 3D/tech revolution was in place and that turned into a new career.
I'd much prefer a 4 year degree in arch and a 2 year biz degree. Toss in a some more art classes, real estate classes, etc., and that woudl be a perfect education.
I almost got that by going to my #1 choices for schools (so, for me, going to my first choices was far more important than some cash - no regrets).
ach but sevensixfive, yure morality its all twisted backwurds me lad.
actually i went to not famous school for bed and march then switched to famous (only in japan, though) school for phd...education wise not any noticable difference, but access to employers, to people i want to talk to and so on, the difference is surprisingly big...it has made my research so so much easier cuz i get to talk to the chief planners of cities and folks in think tanks and so on who otherwise i almost can guarantee you would never have given me time of day. that has direct impact on my education. to be fair, without those contacts i would have just had to figger out other ways to do good work, so is not an enormous deal, but it does make life easier to go to school with reputation...
clearly the world is not being run properly. and anyway having access to networks with rich people who will later be running the country and all that stuff is clearly not what an architect is interested ...in...um, wait a minute...whats the question again?...
"why architects start off which low salaries in comparison to other professional schools"
while debated endlessly here before, the main reason is simple: the typical recent graduate can't do a whole lot in an office that the office really needs doing (other than pick up redlines). until the office trains these new people (which can take a while) they simply can't afford to pay what is needed to live on AND pay back big student loans.
someone said this before and I agree: If I were graduating with a degree in architecture today, I'd ask for my money back. Those other professionals you mention above come out of school ready to practice their profession at a high level -- architects don't.
Babs thats partly because those other professions arent as technicaly oriented - face it, architecture is NOT a profesion and is more aligned with trade / craft model of production based businesses.
evil: Respectfully, I take real exception to the suggestion that Architecture is not a profession. And, I think you grossly underestimate the technical skills required in the law, accounting and, especially, medicine. I know many people in each of those professions and I'm amazed at the wealth of facts they must know, in detail, in order to do their jobs well.
The main difference is that law-school, medical-school and whatever they call the schools where accountants are trained all teach their students what they need to know to start working reasonably productively in a firm once they have a degree.
By contrast, schools of architecture tend to focus on the subjective, with less and less time devoted to the truly technical things necessary to get those designs constructed. Most of that stuff is left to the firms to teach -- with the commensurate negative impact on entry level wages.
The technicalities of Law do not have to keep out water and temerature, nor does the "practice" of architecture protect me from negligence like the "practice" of medicine. Architecture may subjective but theres nothing subjective about the performance of structures.
jump has kind of gotten the right idea. contacts are what make the architecture world go round right? you want good colleagues, good clients, good engineers, good contractors...... where you go will put you into a better contact sphere depending on what you want to do (start a firm, work on small-scale projects, design build?)
if a client needs something built going to a well known school will stand out for them, and working at wellknown firms may get you contacts for engineers etc.
at the same time you really need to think about where you want to work and what kind of work you want to do. Projects in south carolina? go to clemson. projects in boston ? gsd.
think about where you want to end up.
and for all the people saying a name on your resume doesn't matter that's just baloney. you may not like it (i don't) but it's the truth if you want to do independent client work.
if you want to work at a good firm then it helps that your school has a relation with the office. i've gotten all my jobs because the employer recognized my school and knew i was up to the job.
"recognizing your school" and "knowing the candidate is up to the job" are - IMHO - two entirely different concepts.
as someone above already noted, we see as many unacceptable, poorly prepared, untalented candidates from top schools as we see strong, intelligent, capable and talented candidates from among the lesser known.
while schools do have impact, in the end it's mostly about the individual and that person's intelligence and drive.
look at W for example ... he graduated from the Harvard Business School, for god's sake ... would you really want to entrust him with the national economy for a day more than is absolutely necessary?
Most of special people already know what they have to study and dig into.
Only thing they are trying is to find the way to get there that is very personal.
To be "educated" is not an option for them.
Go for free debt.
As far as I know, GT is a pretty fine school, too, so that should be a good enough place for you to investigate yourself.
Dont forget this is a reputation business - if you have a reputation for getting things done, on track and time in a creative manner You will get work regardless of where you went to school. Even within a firm, if you get things done for the right people you will advance. if your the cad monkey for some retard doing the firm's junk work you may be stuck.
Employers: Importance of School Name versus graduating debt free
I know you can't really answer this question for me, but any thoughts from a professional standpoint would be very helpful.
I am originally from Nashville, TN and I graduated from Wash U with a BFA . I applied to architecture school for pre-professional (3+ yrs) degree.
I was accepted at UVA (one of my top choices). I was very excited about the idea of attending, but now I was also accepted to GA tech with a full ride (tuition + stipend). I don't have financial aid info back from UVA yet and I'm still waiting on a few schools for responses.
What is the benefit to a slightly more prestigious program versus going to school for basically free?
ugh. my brains hurt.
Go to UVA if that's where you want to go. Do you want to spend the rest of your life wondering what would have happened if you had gone to your first choice instead of settling? I took on $60k of debt to go to my first choice (was also offered a full ride somewhere else) and have no regrets.
Also, keep in mind that your offers are negotiable to a certain extent. There's nothing wrong with calling UVA, telling them you were offered a full ride somewhere else, and asking if there's anything they can do to help you decide. I did the same and got over $20k in scholarships. Never hurts to ask.
Going by prestige alone, I think the biggest consideration is where you think you'll want to work when you get out. If you plan to stay in the south GA Tech will be a good choice, if you plan to work in DC or anywhere north of it, UVA is probably a better choice.
That said, going to a school where you feel comfortable with the program, the people and the facilities, where you feel you'll have the most opportunities to study the things that interest you, and where you feel you can achieve the most success both academically and in terms of personal growth will get you much farther in your career than going by prestige alone. Ultimately, employers really aren't going to put that much emphasis on where you went to school, especially once you've gained a couple of years worth of experience.
thanks for your imput! its very helpful....
WAIT! Dont do it. Debt free graduation will allow you so many more options after school. The debt you rack up in school will make you tethered to your job and limit your flexibility in your career path later. The name schools, and they change every year, offer a few better interviews after you graduate. Thats all. Is that worth 30-40-50 or more thousnad dollars of debt to you?
employers dont care where you went as long as you gots skills
mdler's right ... what we want to hire are emerging professionals who offer a good portfolio, strong people skills, intelligence, a great attitude and a willingness to learn, and an eagerness to work effectively as a part of a team.
not sure many of those factors are heavily dependent on where you go to school ... they're more of a reflection on who you are as a person.
a "name" school might draw my attention when reading the resume ... but the name never has - and probably never will - overcome what I see in the portfolio and who I see across the table from me during the interview.
As someone who has high amoutn of debt from previosu graduate degree and as someone who is considering going back for anothe rin a design related field....
Go for the option that will leave you debt free. Speakign from personal experience coming straight out fof grad school with all that debt definetly (at least for the short term) limited my post school options...
Besides UGA is from what i have seen a good school. It is actually on my list. Especially because of the links the design college has with the environemntal ethics and ecology certfificate program they have.....
speaking as someone with $80,000 in student loan debt, i say go to the best school and the place you most want to be. i pay $339/month on my debt (30 year plan). $339/month is not a lot of money for a good education. i am still an intern and do not feel encumbered by the debt at all. (i also have no credit card debt.) in 5-10 years, it will be even less of a burden given inflation and wage increases. as someone else wrote, if you go to a school simply because it's cheaper, you'll always wonder what if.
georgia tech is a fine school. go there!
as somebody with almost six figures of student loan debt from a name school, if I was going to do it again and had a free ride opportunity, I'd jump at the chance to be debt free
blue collar background, 15k debt from self-funded undergrad education, will be facing this decision in one year, can't see myself making a choice that will put me in 75-100k of additional debt, when there are options that will leave me with significantly less debt, if not debt free.
*but. i haven't yet faced the decision, and who knows how i'll feel when the time comes.
best of luck to you artichoke.
who says UVA is a "slightly more prestigeous" program than Ga Tech?
I'll be honest - I couldnt even tell you what the "top" architecture schools in the country are. I know of IIT and UIC. I have a friend who went to UT so Im assuming theyre good.
Thats actualy what the interviewer is going to care about your school. Take advantage - this may be the last proffesion your school DOESNT matter. Be glad.
bull shit.
if the office cares where you went to school, they probably cant afford to pay you
it does matter where you go in terms of what you are exposed to conceptually, but your employers won't care if you have good skills. we had a student apply to our firm a few weeks ago who went to penn and the gsd, and he didn't even get an interview as far as i know. no one is going to hire you just because you went to a prestigious school.
^gsd
'nough said
message not being, "don't go to these schools," but be wary of what you need to know in the workplace. much like your first car, your first job is supposed to suck.
I was on this board 2 years before I knew what GSD and SciArch was
my point is don't worry about the employer yet. concentrate more on where you will get the best education. after you graduate, if you do get into big time debt, factor that into negotiating your salary. don't accept a salary less than x dollars because you will need to make x to pay your student loans. in the meantime, you will have gotten a great aducation which is worth every penny. trust me, i can tell the difference between graduates of a good school from those that bumbled through a mediocre technical program (not at all saying that is ga tech; it's a fine school from what i know of it).
what a crock ... I agree that you should go where you get the "best value" in an education ... but, your employer isn't going to pay you more simply because you have a bunch of debt ... in fact, if you use that argument to support the idea that you need to be paid more, you'll be thought an idiot by most employers I know ... that same argument doesn't wash for those who have more kids or who have a bigger apartment or want to take fancy vacations. why should it work for student debt?
pay is based on what you can contribute ... period! especially in an economy headed for a recession.
a fancy degree for a big name university does NOT mean you can contribute more.
babs, you misunderstood my post. i'm not saying that you come out and tell an employer how much debt you have. i'm saying that when you're searching for a job, make a budget, and don't accept anything less than what your budget will allow. for example, when i left school, i knew that i would need at least $36,000/yr. when i was receiving offers, i automatically rejected any offer less than that. i think i probably missed out one good firm because they could not pay me what i needed, but it certainly was not difficult finding an employer who could.
yes ... I understand that perspective and recognize that everybody has the right to set their own price for the services they offer ... but, I was concerned that you might be inadvertently misleading students, or soon to be students, that they could run up any amount of debt and expect their future employers to cover the tab.
while I applaud your discipline to hold out for what you want and need, I also urge those in, or entering college, to think really hard about accumulating a huge amount of debt before entering the workforce.
IMHO, there is a truism in our industry that some firms pay higher wages for a specific reason -- i.e. they're such horrible places to work that they MUST pay high wages to attact any staff at all.
I always advise students not to back themselves into a corner where they have to take a job they're going to hate simply because they need the additional money to offset their student loans. that's a bad, bad situation in which to find oneself.
As someone who had over $75,000 in student loans after graduating from her second degree, I say go for the debt free option, especially if your decision is based purely on which school has more prestige. Employers don't really care where you go as long as you have a good portfolio/resume.
Federal Aid, I believe, is maxed out at $55,000 per individual. If you need more money above that than you either have to find scholarship, grants or private loans. From my experience scholarship and grants usually come to a person in small amounts, a couple thousand here, a couple thousand there. Still not a lot. You can always go the route of private loans but I warn, these loans often times have high percentages and have variable rates. At the present time my private student loan interest rate is something like %10. Because it's a private loan I cannot consolidate it into my other federal loans.
But I digress. I guess all I can say is take some time and think seriously about your options. All the opinions you have received here so far have been great.
jafidler - How the hell are you only paying $339 a month on your student loans? Seriously, I really want to know. Email me.... PLEASE!
My vote is for Tech. Great program AND you can do it for free, seems like a no brainer.
wait, is there an actual question here?
please, for the love of god, GO FOR THE FREE RIDE!
ep said it best...high debt will keep you tethered to your job(s) forever. want to take that 3 month archi-tour of europe? sorry honey, you got billz to pay.
want to get that new iPhone? nope.
want to pay that rent? nope.
seriously. you can not go wrong with debt free.
fidler set his federal loan to that amount...anyone can do that.
As someone who graduated from state schools with $0 in student loans, I'd say that hard work has gotten me to where I am now, not the prestige of the institutions I attended. In fact, working hard throughout school to pay for tuition instilled a good work ethic in me and provided an advantage-of-real-world-knowledge over those who didn't work their way through school.
Remember that getting scholarships is not the only way to graduate debt-free.
The beauty of design professions is that we can all see what you can do. Your portfolio speaks louder than any piece of paper.
That said, better schools will tend to produce better designers, which make better portfolios. Remember, as I am sure you know, that 95% of what you learn will be from fellow students, not the school or professors (and better schools will tend to have more talented studios).
schools do matter if you want introductions to starchitecture firms and want to see the kool lectures and participate in the special starchitectural events...but apart from that...
anyway isn't usa economy based on debt? that means you would be patriotic if you got as much as possible...
I know several people that did not go to big name schools that now work at starchitect firms. Many of them got hired into those firms right out of their little-known school. Ultimately, your portfolio is going to carry much more weight than the school you attended. I have seen many portfolios in my career and interviewed quite a few people. I have seen really great stuff from people that attended schools that you won't find on any "top ten" list and I saw some pretty awful stuff from the "top ten." And, I certainly saw the reverse, as well. My point is, I think you can get a pretty good education without going to a big name school and going to a big name school does not guarantee you a seat at the table. That being said, the top-rated schools get there for a reason. As stated above, you are more likely to be exposed to the very top of the profession at those schools. It may, or may not rub off on you, but you will certainly get exposure.
This discussion is just fostering the starchitecture world view of design and really shouldn't be a point of planning one's career. The profession has to get over the view that one person makes a building happen. Its just a very sad to see everyone try to justify one's own decision to spend more at one school vs. another and expect it be critical to their future career success. It appears that the cult of celebrity even exists in school envy.
Go to a good school, get a variety of work experiences in different office settings, learn from the good people you work along side with and be open to both the new and old dogs you meet. Don't rack up big debt...... last I checked no one has asked to see my diploma in 20 years of business.
let's ask this question: what does a "better" school get you?
- a better starting salary? probably not
- a better portfolio? doubtful
- better professors? hmmm - that's a tough one. every school has its share of certifiable flakes. my experience suggests the "better" schools have a bunch who are mostly interested in being theoretical and pushing you down roads that most firms won't / can't appreciate. but, in the end, you might understand architectural theory a little better (which, like a degree in poetry, won't help you pay off student loans)
- better contacts outside the department? quite possibly, if you ever get outside the department
- better classmates? same answer as "better professors"
- better lecture series? probably, if you feel that's important to being a good architect
- better career possibilities? not at all - that's entirely up to you
you gotta decide what's important to you and what price you're willing to pay. for my money, I'd go for the free ride.
then, after you graduate, come to see me - I'll give you a good job because it'll be clear you have a clear head sitting on your sholders
Helloartichoke,
I'd encourage you to think about this in slightly different terms. Price and the reputation of a school might not be the most important factor in making a decision. Ultimately any amount of money you pay for your education will be wasted if you're not excited about the work you're doing. I'd encourage you to think about which of these schools is more in-line with your research interests. In the end, the school that will give you a more valuable education isn't the one that was cheaper or had a more reputable name, but the one that made you passionate about what you're doing and focused your design values in a way that will prepare you for the rest of your career.
You’re concerned about having huge debt to pay off, or not having a big name on your resume, but I believe that if your education allows you to love what it is you’re doing with your life, neither of those issues will bother you much in the long run.
Alright, this is really easy.
It's not about going to a well known school, it's about going to a good school.
And it's not about working with a famous office, it's about working with a good office.
Sometimes famous and good happen to be the same thing, sometimes not.
Okay? Okay.
765 - Damn you hit the nail on the head exactly. :o)
:D
Next!
Maybe we should start asking why is school so exspensive and when the hell did we start needing 5,6 or 7 years to become anarchitecture grad? What the hell is wrong with 4 years - the way it worked for the last 50 years.
good point! and also this goes into that HUGE discussion of why architects start off which low salaries in comparison to other professional schools (law, business, etc).
debt wouldnt be so hard to pay off with a starting salary of 60-80k!
I agree. My 4 year undergrad taught me as much as any school. Grad school was just playing and experimenting. Turned out to be great timing, as the 3D/tech revolution was in place and that turned into a new career.
I'd much prefer a 4 year degree in arch and a 2 year biz degree. Toss in a some more art classes, real estate classes, etc., and that woudl be a perfect education.
I almost got that by going to my #1 choices for schools (so, for me, going to my first choices was far more important than some cash - no regrets).
ach but sevensixfive, yure morality its all twisted backwurds me lad.
actually i went to not famous school for bed and march then switched to famous (only in japan, though) school for phd...education wise not any noticable difference, but access to employers, to people i want to talk to and so on, the difference is surprisingly big...it has made my research so so much easier cuz i get to talk to the chief planners of cities and folks in think tanks and so on who otherwise i almost can guarantee you would never have given me time of day. that has direct impact on my education. to be fair, without those contacts i would have just had to figger out other ways to do good work, so is not an enormous deal, but it does make life easier to go to school with reputation...
clearly the world is not being run properly. and anyway having access to networks with rich people who will later be running the country and all that stuff is clearly not what an architect is interested ...in...um, wait a minute...whats the question again?...
while debated endlessly here before, the main reason is simple: the typical recent graduate can't do a whole lot in an office that the office really needs doing (other than pick up redlines). until the office trains these new people (which can take a while) they simply can't afford to pay what is needed to live on AND pay back big student loans.
someone said this before and I agree: If I were graduating with a degree in architecture today, I'd ask for my money back. Those other professionals you mention above come out of school ready to practice their profession at a high level -- architects don't.
Babs thats partly because those other professions arent as technicaly oriented - face it, architecture is NOT a profesion and is more aligned with trade / craft model of production based businesses.
evil: Respectfully, I take real exception to the suggestion that Architecture is not a profession. And, I think you grossly underestimate the technical skills required in the law, accounting and, especially, medicine. I know many people in each of those professions and I'm amazed at the wealth of facts they must know, in detail, in order to do their jobs well.
The main difference is that law-school, medical-school and whatever they call the schools where accountants are trained all teach their students what they need to know to start working reasonably productively in a firm once they have a degree.
By contrast, schools of architecture tend to focus on the subjective, with less and less time devoted to the truly technical things necessary to get those designs constructed. Most of that stuff is left to the firms to teach -- with the commensurate negative impact on entry level wages.
The technicalities of Law do not have to keep out water and temerature, nor does the "practice" of architecture protect me from negligence like the "practice" of medicine. Architecture may subjective but theres nothing subjective about the performance of structures.
jump has kind of gotten the right idea. contacts are what make the architecture world go round right? you want good colleagues, good clients, good engineers, good contractors...... where you go will put you into a better contact sphere depending on what you want to do (start a firm, work on small-scale projects, design build?)
if a client needs something built going to a well known school will stand out for them, and working at wellknown firms may get you contacts for engineers etc.
at the same time you really need to think about where you want to work and what kind of work you want to do. Projects in south carolina? go to clemson. projects in boston ? gsd.
think about where you want to end up.
and for all the people saying a name on your resume doesn't matter that's just baloney. you may not like it (i don't) but it's the truth if you want to do independent client work.
if you want to work at a good firm then it helps that your school has a relation with the office. i've gotten all my jobs because the employer recognized my school and knew i was up to the job.
"recognizing your school" and "knowing the candidate is up to the job" are - IMHO - two entirely different concepts.
as someone above already noted, we see as many unacceptable, poorly prepared, untalented candidates from top schools as we see strong, intelligent, capable and talented candidates from among the lesser known.
while schools do have impact, in the end it's mostly about the individual and that person's intelligence and drive.
look at W for example ... he graduated from the Harvard Business School, for god's sake ... would you really want to entrust him with the national economy for a day more than is absolutely necessary?
Most of special people already know what they have to study and dig into.
Only thing they are trying is to find the way to get there that is very personal.
To be "educated" is not an option for them.
Go for free debt.
As far as I know, GT is a pretty fine school, too, so that should be a good enough place for you to investigate yourself.
look at what's happening to the dollar and ask yourself if debt is generally a good idea!
Dont forget this is a reputation business - if you have a reputation for getting things done, on track and time in a creative manner You will get work regardless of where you went to school. Even within a firm, if you get things done for the right people you will advance. if your the cad monkey for some retard doing the firm's junk work you may be stuck.
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