Go to the school where your roommates and friends are most likely to become either rich or developers so you will be first in line when they want to build something.
btw uva and gtech id def take the free ride.
gt isnt a bad school.
years down the line where u went to school
wont make a huge difference unless youre in academia
yr work is more important than what school u went to
hmm.. i wonder how ready lawyers and doctors are from the gate... don't they have to article and intern to learn ropes for low pay? maybe that is stupid question...
worse than starting with low wages is that architects continue to make low wages throughout career. that is what really sucks.
above comments about name schools is not intended to suggest they are so much better, only that the right school can open doors that otherwise will not ever open or that will take a lot of work to pry open...performance is still based on individuals.
but come on look at how far bush was able to go just on money and connections. it is naive to say they don't help.
in case it matters i chose the no-debt route and have no regrets, though i sometimes wonder how things would have turned out if i had gone to the AA for masters instead of university of manitoba.
I've been thinking about this a lot recently myself and I think this is a decision that depends on a lot of considerations that you haven't mentioned. For example,
1) What are your professional goals? What type of firm would you like to end up at and doing what type of work? Would you like to work overseas?
2) What are your academic goals? Do you want to teach? What are your interests, for example, what might your thesis be about?
3) What are your other responsibilities? Are you in a committed relationship, do you have kids? Do you want to buy a house right out of school? Are you a frugal person or do you already have debt and poor money management? How does architecture school fit in with your other priorities?
I feel like if you're able to answer all of these questions you'll be able to make the decision much easier.
Umm, not to bash UVA, but I think j hit it - it's a name, but maybe not a well-known enough name to be worth that amount of debt. An Ivy is one thing, and will open certain doors for you, but UVA is different. I would consider UVA to be a school with a very good reputation amongst architects, but not in the general public, like an Ivy is. I also think GATech has a good reputation in the field.
I have to disagree with you, keopi, on name recognition mattering to clients - I've never had it come up until after I've been hired, and when I say my school no one knows it anyway. Clients hire me based on my reputation and work, they don't give a damn where my degree is from.
I think one big question is WHERE do you want to work? Not which firm, but where in the country/world? You will network and make a lot of contacts in school. If you want to stay close to either of those schools, going to the local school can help you with contacts. It was a strange and somewhat difficult situation for me to enter the job market in Philly without having gone to Penn - everyone around me had extensive networks already, and I didn't know a soul. Being in college in a particular region gives you a great understanding of the ethos of that region - if you want to stay there.
If you can graduate with no debt, your first ten years out of school will be much, much, much easier.
i'll agree with some points above: an ivy does matter (sorry kids, it's how the world works) in terms of getting in front of a client. however, i've never, in my entire career, had someone hire me because of where i went to school. sounds good, but...
i would absolutely avoid taking on debt if the possibility is out there. it could cripple you later on, as it's been mentioned.
it sounds like they offered you a pretty sweet deal to come down to tech (where i've taught before and can vouch that the school is in a pretty good place, relatively speaking, right now). i know someone who was offered the same fellowship and turned it down to go to another school that she felt like was better suited to her interests. so, you wouldn't be the first.
come to atlanta. all charlottesville has is bill mcdonough and w.g. clark. and a whole lot more debt.
really, uva, tech - they're going to be all the same to everyone else. just put up some great work on the walls and it will all work out...
wow, debt really is an evil word these days. are ya'll spending your saturday nights watching suze orman? after reading everyone's reasons for choosing a school i think i disagree with most everything written. you don't pick a school because of name faculty (mcdonough), you don't pick a school for what it can get you after graduation (a name on your resume), you pick a school because of the EDUCATION. what can that school offer during the two or three years you are there? smart, motivated fellow students? teachers at the top of their profession? travel that will open your mind to new possibilities? kick ass facilities to mill the shit out of huge blocks of plywood? not every school is equal, not by a long shot, and if you are not going to the very best school you can, you're wasting your money. there is good debt and bad debt. you make the call. i'm really stunned by the responses here.
have u personally visited both the schools? I have seen all the comments above but haven seen anything that relates to the specific 'feel' you should get from the school.
i personally spent a couple years at a starchitect firm and was choosing between an ivy league with 1/3 scholarship VS a state sch which i happened to visit. the feel i got from the state was overwhelming and im currently into my 2nd semester. im financing it through my own savings ( which is highly affordable given that its a state school) and also i was given great opportunites like doing TA and some scholarships.
Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to GA tech this week, and UVA at the end of the month. I realize that it is about the education and the experience and not about trying to get "a name" or the bottom line. However, I was just very interested to see what some professionals might have to say about the pros and cons of each since my current employer isn't being very opinionated. I'm hoping that visiting will fill in all the missing info. I've noticed from my past that I usually go with my gut on matters like these, and that the "feel" of the school will be the largest determining factor. (although Clark/Menefee are tempting all on their own...)
I would love to go to school and borrow as little money as possible, because I'm still feeling the burn of undergrad loans. Having almost $100k of loans once I'm done with education seems overwhelming. I suppose I want the best of both worlds: the ability to get a great job AND be able to save up for a house/condo when I graduate. I'm not sure where I want to end up working; so I also don't want to be limited to a certain region. That being said, I'm not sure working for a "starchitect" is for me.
I'm feeling so overwhelmed right now because it seems by deciding where I want to go to school I'm inevitably making choices about the kind of person I want to be - that's a lot of pressure.
i wouldn't worry about the school defining your future so much, helloartichoke. nice thing about america is that very little is really irreversible.
i did undergrad at cheap school in canada cuz i wanted to go to europe or japan to work and didn't want to have to find a commercial office job to pay off loan debt (which is what i think is required to be honest)... so that's what i did.
lb is right about local archi-scene being easier to access if you plan to stay where you study...i was offered a few jobs before i left canada through professors and intros from classmates and could easily have stayed there. by contrast going to london was not easy. i had zero access to offices and had to rely on my portfolio and CV. it was also a pain to look for a job and a place to stay at the same time...and then deal with getting work-permit
however the challenges were not impossible and my non famous school was not a hindrance. it did not help either.
whether uva is worth it or not i have no idea...but things tend to work out for the best, so wouldn't worry too much.
I'm really interested in the replies here because I'm struggling with a similar issue. I have thus far been accepted by U of Washington in Seattle, U of British Columbia and U of Tennessee. I'm waiting to hear from the seven others: U of Oregon, Berkeley, UCLA, SCI-Arc, Austin, Yale (though I think, judging from the flurry yesterday over on the commiserate board, I can safely strike Yale from that list)
In my case it isn't so much about money, it is about the sacrifices a person might have to make for their relationship: husband got a dream job in Oak Ridge, but I'm concerned about the strength of the TN program and what will be available to me after graduation. Most people say your portfolio is the most important piece of getting a job, but will you have a better portfolio if you go to a "better" school?
I absolutely agree with JAFIDLER that the most important thing is the education and the fit, not the name. The rub, of course, is that figuring out where you can get a great education is a much more difficult thing than consulting the rankings or relying on the fame and the name.
And yes, I've done my research, and yes, I'm going to visit. BUT, in the meantime, HelloArtichoke, seeing how you're from TN, I thought you might be able to dish a little dirt on Knoxville. Thanks for giving anything you got.
: have you considered the possibility of having your cake and eating it too? by that I mean, have you spoken with the financial aid office at UVA about your options.
when my children were entering college, I found it entirely possible to play the financial aid office of one university against the other in order to greatly increase the amount of aid being offered. I expect that if you tell UVA that you're moderately interested in their program, but the full ride at Ga. Tech really is tilting your thinking towards Atlanta, you'll see UVA become a lot more interested in helping you out. the worst that can happen to you in that situation is getting a free education at Ga Tech.
Also, have you thought about why Ga. Tech is being so generous with you. My guess is that they see something special in you, and your portfolio, that says to them you'd do very well in their program. They've expressed strong interest in having you there -- that probably means something important and you should give it some weight.
I think its absolutely irresponsible to even concider taking on that much debt for a job you know it will be hard to pay back. Not to mention all this debt just fuels the college lending industry. Please dont be a part of that.
I am also very interested in this thread and peoples opinions on the matter, I just got into UIC with a full scholarship plus a significant stipend as well as the University of Washington. I have yet to get any financial info from UW but I can not imagine they will offer as much as UIC. I am planning on visiting both schools (unfortunately both school's open houses are the same day so I have to choose one to go to), and I am sure that will play a large factor in my decision. The one thing that concerns me though is that if I did go to a school that does not offer me a good financial aid package I would be in debt for the first time my life, this makes me worry a lot due to current state of our economy and knowing that I will not be making a lot of of school. Sorry for hijacking.
Yes - during the dark ages of the school's history. I hear its much better now. The program is basic architecture study, it had a focus on physical model building when I was there in the 90's but its strength is it's location - great place to work and go to school. Pretty good intern wages in Chicago.
Employers: Importance of School Name versus graduating debt free
Go to the school where your roommates and friends are most likely to become either rich or developers so you will be first in line when they want to build something.
btw uva and gtech id def take the free ride.
gt isnt a bad school.
years down the line where u went to school
wont make a huge difference unless youre in academia
yr work is more important than what school u went to
grad school debt is not a pleasant thing.
hmm.. i wonder how ready lawyers and doctors are from the gate... don't they have to article and intern to learn ropes for low pay? maybe that is stupid question...
worse than starting with low wages is that architects continue to make low wages throughout career. that is what really sucks.
above comments about name schools is not intended to suggest they are so much better, only that the right school can open doors that otherwise will not ever open or that will take a lot of work to pry open...performance is still based on individuals.
but come on look at how far bush was able to go just on money and connections. it is naive to say they don't help.
in case it matters i chose the no-debt route and have no regrets, though i sometimes wonder how things would have turned out if i had gone to the AA for masters instead of university of manitoba.
Those numbers seem high for a recent M.Arch grad with little experience. Anyone else agree?
Exactly, the original poster was saying that it would be easier if you made that much.
You're totally right. That's what I get for skimming.
I've been thinking about this a lot recently myself and I think this is a decision that depends on a lot of considerations that you haven't mentioned. For example,
1) What are your professional goals? What type of firm would you like to end up at and doing what type of work? Would you like to work overseas?
2) What are your academic goals? Do you want to teach? What are your interests, for example, what might your thesis be about?
3) What are your other responsibilities? Are you in a committed relationship, do you have kids? Do you want to buy a house right out of school? Are you a frugal person or do you already have debt and poor money management? How does architecture school fit in with your other priorities?
I feel like if you're able to answer all of these questions you'll be able to make the decision much easier.
Umm, not to bash UVA, but I think j hit it - it's a name, but maybe not a well-known enough name to be worth that amount of debt. An Ivy is one thing, and will open certain doors for you, but UVA is different. I would consider UVA to be a school with a very good reputation amongst architects, but not in the general public, like an Ivy is. I also think GATech has a good reputation in the field.
I have to disagree with you, keopi, on name recognition mattering to clients - I've never had it come up until after I've been hired, and when I say my school no one knows it anyway. Clients hire me based on my reputation and work, they don't give a damn where my degree is from.
I think one big question is WHERE do you want to work? Not which firm, but where in the country/world? You will network and make a lot of contacts in school. If you want to stay close to either of those schools, going to the local school can help you with contacts. It was a strange and somewhat difficult situation for me to enter the job market in Philly without having gone to Penn - everyone around me had extensive networks already, and I didn't know a soul. Being in college in a particular region gives you a great understanding of the ethos of that region - if you want to stay there.
If you can graduate with no debt, your first ten years out of school will be much, much, much easier.
i'll agree with some points above: an ivy does matter (sorry kids, it's how the world works) in terms of getting in front of a client. however, i've never, in my entire career, had someone hire me because of where i went to school. sounds good, but...
i would absolutely avoid taking on debt if the possibility is out there. it could cripple you later on, as it's been mentioned.
it sounds like they offered you a pretty sweet deal to come down to tech (where i've taught before and can vouch that the school is in a pretty good place, relatively speaking, right now). i know someone who was offered the same fellowship and turned it down to go to another school that she felt like was better suited to her interests. so, you wouldn't be the first.
come to atlanta. all charlottesville has is bill mcdonough and w.g. clark. and a whole lot more debt.
really, uva, tech - they're going to be all the same to everyone else. just put up some great work on the walls and it will all work out...
wow, debt really is an evil word these days. are ya'll spending your saturday nights watching suze orman? after reading everyone's reasons for choosing a school i think i disagree with most everything written. you don't pick a school because of name faculty (mcdonough), you don't pick a school for what it can get you after graduation (a name on your resume), you pick a school because of the EDUCATION. what can that school offer during the two or three years you are there? smart, motivated fellow students? teachers at the top of their profession? travel that will open your mind to new possibilities? kick ass facilities to mill the shit out of huge blocks of plywood? not every school is equal, not by a long shot, and if you are not going to the very best school you can, you're wasting your money. there is good debt and bad debt. you make the call. i'm really stunned by the responses here.
yo dude.
have u personally visited both the schools? I have seen all the comments above but haven seen anything that relates to the specific 'feel' you should get from the school.
i personally spent a couple years at a starchitect firm and was choosing between an ivy league with 1/3 scholarship VS a state sch which i happened to visit. the feel i got from the state was overwhelming and im currently into my 2nd semester. im financing it through my own savings ( which is highly affordable given that its a state school) and also i was given great opportunites like doing TA and some scholarships.
just my thoughts...
Thanks for the feedback. I'm going to GA tech this week, and UVA at the end of the month. I realize that it is about the education and the experience and not about trying to get "a name" or the bottom line. However, I was just very interested to see what some professionals might have to say about the pros and cons of each since my current employer isn't being very opinionated. I'm hoping that visiting will fill in all the missing info. I've noticed from my past that I usually go with my gut on matters like these, and that the "feel" of the school will be the largest determining factor. (although Clark/Menefee are tempting all on their own...)
I would love to go to school and borrow as little money as possible, because I'm still feeling the burn of undergrad loans. Having almost $100k of loans once I'm done with education seems overwhelming. I suppose I want the best of both worlds: the ability to get a great job AND be able to save up for a house/condo when I graduate. I'm not sure where I want to end up working; so I also don't want to be limited to a certain region. That being said, I'm not sure working for a "starchitect" is for me.
I'm feeling so overwhelmed right now because it seems by deciding where I want to go to school I'm inevitably making choices about the kind of person I want to be - that's a lot of pressure.
Good points, keep em coming.
i wouldn't worry about the school defining your future so much, helloartichoke. nice thing about america is that very little is really irreversible.
i did undergrad at cheap school in canada cuz i wanted to go to europe or japan to work and didn't want to have to find a commercial office job to pay off loan debt (which is what i think is required to be honest)... so that's what i did.
lb is right about local archi-scene being easier to access if you plan to stay where you study...i was offered a few jobs before i left canada through professors and intros from classmates and could easily have stayed there. by contrast going to london was not easy. i had zero access to offices and had to rely on my portfolio and CV. it was also a pain to look for a job and a place to stay at the same time...and then deal with getting work-permit
however the challenges were not impossible and my non famous school was not a hindrance. it did not help either.
whether uva is worth it or not i have no idea...but things tend to work out for the best, so wouldn't worry too much.
Hello Helloartichoke,
Can I hijack for just a quick moment?
I'm really interested in the replies here because I'm struggling with a similar issue. I have thus far been accepted by U of Washington in Seattle, U of British Columbia and U of Tennessee. I'm waiting to hear from the seven others: U of Oregon, Berkeley, UCLA, SCI-Arc, Austin, Yale (though I think, judging from the flurry yesterday over on the commiserate board, I can safely strike Yale from that list)
In my case it isn't so much about money, it is about the sacrifices a person might have to make for their relationship: husband got a dream job in Oak Ridge, but I'm concerned about the strength of the TN program and what will be available to me after graduation. Most people say your portfolio is the most important piece of getting a job, but will you have a better portfolio if you go to a "better" school?
I absolutely agree with JAFIDLER that the most important thing is the education and the fit, not the name. The rub, of course, is that figuring out where you can get a great education is a much more difficult thing than consulting the rankings or relying on the fame and the name.
And yes, I've done my research, and yes, I'm going to visit. BUT, in the meantime, HelloArtichoke, seeing how you're from TN, I thought you might be able to dish a little dirt on Knoxville. Thanks for giving anything you got.
: have you considered the possibility of having your cake and eating it too? by that I mean, have you spoken with the financial aid office at UVA about your options.
when my children were entering college, I found it entirely possible to play the financial aid office of one university against the other in order to greatly increase the amount of aid being offered. I expect that if you tell UVA that you're moderately interested in their program, but the full ride at Ga. Tech really is tilting your thinking towards Atlanta, you'll see UVA become a lot more interested in helping you out. the worst that can happen to you in that situation is getting a free education at Ga Tech.
Also, have you thought about why Ga. Tech is being so generous with you. My guess is that they see something special in you, and your portfolio, that says to them you'd do very well in their program. They've expressed strong interest in having you there -- that probably means something important and you should give it some weight.
I think its absolutely irresponsible to even concider taking on that much debt for a job you know it will be hard to pay back. Not to mention all this debt just fuels the college lending industry. Please dont be a part of that.
I am also very interested in this thread and peoples opinions on the matter, I just got into UIC with a full scholarship plus a significant stipend as well as the University of Washington. I have yet to get any financial info from UW but I can not imagine they will offer as much as UIC. I am planning on visiting both schools (unfortunately both school's open houses are the same day so I have to choose one to go to), and I am sure that will play a large factor in my decision. The one thing that concerns me though is that if I did go to a school that does not offer me a good financial aid package I would be in debt for the first time my life, this makes me worry a lot due to current state of our economy and knowing that I will not be making a lot of of school. Sorry for hijacking.
s>O - FOR THE AMOUNT OF $ YOUR CONCIDERING SPENDING YOU CAN VISIT THE SCHOOL ANY TIME YOU DAM WELL PLEASE.
BTW - UIC rocks.
Apparently Spitzer attended both Princeton and Harvard.... didn't seem to do much good in the end.
Evil, I am planning on visiting both schools but it would been nice to go during their open house. Did you go to UIC?
Yes - during the dark ages of the school's history. I hear its much better now. The program is basic architecture study, it had a focus on physical model building when I was there in the 90's but its strength is it's location - great place to work and go to school. Pretty good intern wages in Chicago.
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