It is always good to weigh several options. Going to offices in person gives you the chance see and meet the people you will be working with and for - a suitable work environment is probably the most important factor in long-term happiness at a job.

Also, be sure to speak with your employer about your responsibilities: what exactly will be your responsibilities. This will give you valuable information about where your career in this office will be headed.

You now say that the few extra thousand at the end of the year make no difference to you. Even a few hundred in the first years of work invested for retirement will make the world of difference for your financial future. Don't underestimate this, you will never be able to recover this.

(*Be weary, I'm a student myself* I'm sure someone more expirienced will add (or maybe contrast) to my perspective)

"I'm less concerned about an extra few thousand dollars a year than I am about a positive work culture and environment, which this firm seems to have."
That seems to be your answer right there, if you have your cake, eat it!

However,
If you are second guessing yourself, here's an insight: the firm offerred you a position practically immediatly; they want you. If the firm's hiring agent sees so much potential in you that he/she has extended an offer, you are seen as an asset. Having them wait a (professional) amount of time should not hurt.

Maybe, they've extended an offer but haven't gone over pay sepifications because they want to see your porfolio (or another component they see as a representation of potential or 'fit' in the firm); maybe they have come forward, but how forward have they been?
If they're not putting themselves on the line, should you?

"[...] unless they wanted to pay me really badly [...]", how forward have they been?

Maybe they'll even respect you formally letting them know you've received other offers (whether you have or not) and need time (professionally acceptable amount) to weigh your options. This might implament that while you're new, you're not without forward thinking capabilities.

Maybe, use this time to your benefit, just so at least you won't look back at the end of your tenure, whether it turn out good or bad, and say that you were too hastey.

i would let them know that you are interrested and start talking pay. you can always back away or re-negociate if thier terms dont meet yours

don't be the first to name a number. make them show their cards first and don't have high expectations.

mdler and treekiller's advice is spot-on. Sounds like they want you and there's no reason you couldn't negotiate a little. Just don't have crazy-high expectations (it doesn't sound like you do).

In my experience, working at a place that's comfortable, pushes me creatively, is attuned to the same things that I am, and offers a few fringe benefits here and there (or even just listens to what I have to say once in a while) is worth much much more than many thousands of dollars.

When you're pissed at your firm and getting dicked around constantly, you won't think of the money you're making, you'll think of how much it's NOT WORTH the money you're making.

"It sounds great- it's the place I want to be, the size of firm I want to work in, they seem really laid back and truly committed to issues of sustainability."

I think you answered the question on your own.
If you do decide to wait, make sure you don't lose this offer in the process. Would be a big mistake not to go for it if it's what you want.

They asked me to name a salary "preference" - I gave them a really broad range, since I've never had a full-time job before. Then they asked for some references to see what kind of responsibilities I had at my last job, and are, I guess, getting back to me with a formal proposal soon.

How do I politely tell someone I want more money, if that turns out to be a problem?

"Maybe they'll even respect you formally letting them know you've received other offers (whether you have or not) " - are you saying, to put it bluntly, that I should lie about getting other offers for higher amounts of money?

Thank you!

IMO, this really isn't an decision you ought to be worrying about until you actually receive an offer (preferably in writing).

if you've done any research at all, you'll know whether the offer is fair or not. if it's fair and you are willing to throw the dice with a firm you've never met, go for it and don't second guess yourself.

my only caution would be this: make sure that you're in a location where, if it doesn't work out, you have some reasonable alternatives without having to move to another city. you don't want to be stuck out in the middle of nowhere, in some small firm in some small town where they're the only employer of architects within a 300 mile radius.

hey quizzical
could you pm me?
thanks!

Whoops, maybe that should have been, “Maybe they'll even respect you for (formally) letting them know you've received other offers (whether you have ‘tangibles’ or not) and need time (a professionally acceptable amount) to weigh your options. This might implement that while you're new, you're not without forward thinking capabilities.”

So, while I was not necessarily implying you should gamble for more money, (even though that could be an option...) but I think conveying something along the lines of "I'm weighing my options" sounds better than you not actually having a reason to hold out (not saying you’d present yourself to be aimless, but, I myself always like confirmation); technically, you are weighing other offers.

…In short, maybe you not accepting the offer immediately will let the potential firm know your being new is not a confirmation of your naïveté while also giving you a chance to really be sure of your chance.

You have to answer your own question:

I'm just not sure a little more money is worth the effort right now, and I like everything I've seen about the place...

they haven't made an official offer so i'd wait before getting over excited.


personally, and this is possibly a canadian thing, i am profoundly turned off by any hint of bragging or attitude...either you want to work for my office or not...if there are doubts just admit them. this is an adult discussion after all. i think employers are able to pick up on salesman approach... so just be honest.

there isnt a problem with accepting the first offer you get as long as it meets all your requirements
if they come at you with a salary that you are looking for, and everything else is to your liking, why not go there?

if for some reason you have some doubts, then wait for some other offers
but remember, the firm will also be looking to fill its spot, so if you wait too long, you might lose out

but for your first job after you graduate, its not like its the last job you will ever have
its more important to be comfortable and to be able to start your career on a positive note
going somewhere where they really want you is not a bad way to start

quizzical is right

going somewhere you havent seen yet is a risk, so make sure there are options


if the firm wants you bad enough, you can arrange with them to visit their office before you begin and before you formally accept their agreement. if they expect you to accept their offer without ever seeing their office or be in their area, that might not be a good sign of things to come there

how far away is it from where you are now?

renmonk -

i accepted the first offer i got straight out of grad school - it was only my second interview, but the minute i walked into the office and met the people i was like "this is it, this is where i want to be", and 4 years into the job, i was right. it was an incredibly fast process - 1st interview one day, week later was the second, and they offered me the job on the spot! i thought about it over teh weekend and realized that this is my first job of potentially many, and that if it felt right, to just jump in. gut reactions can mean a lot.

i WOULD try to visit, though, b/c the way a firm feels can really be quite important. as marmkid just pointed out - they really expect you to accept an offer wtihout seeing the place? if you like the place like you expect to....its not really going to matter if your portfolio is done, or if you miss some school, right? take a chance, and go see it.


and i agree with tree-killer - dont have high salary expectations (maybe search teh salary poll on this site in your geographic area to get a good sense of what you can expect?) - you can always try to renogotiate for a raise a few months in, or whatever.

one thing i would recommend - negotiate a reasonable start date. give yourself a bit of time between school and starting. you'll need th refresher.

i agree with the start date recommendation
i started essentially the monday after my classes were over, and worked out that i could have the day off for graduation
but there was no buffer time from classes to work (with a move 2 hours away thrown in there for fun)
a refresher would have been nice, but there was a little crunch on a project to jump on, so i thought it would make a good first impression to agree to an earlier start date than i had wanted.

salary expectations for your first job out of school really shouldnt be what drives your decision. unless a place offers you significantly more or less than what is the going rate, that shouldnt matter
it's that 2nd job offer you accept in your career that should have a nice bump in salary. for your first job, you are just going to be offered some set salary anyway