I've found that I just can't be creative without diverting my attention for brief periods of time to other things. I get stumped, and when that happens, I get mildly annoyed and need to look at other stimuli. I think I've managed it pretty well, although my former employers could never understand it.

I'm the same way dubs.

For the record I was suspected of having ADD as a kid, and frankly I think its a bullshit syndrome designed to sell high caliber perscription uppers and downers to kids.

I'm seriously thinking that when I have kids and can't get them to sit still for a half hour and focus, I may just feed them a magic brownie rather than resort to psuedo-Brave New World corporation generated downers. I've never met a kid that could sit still for longer than five minutes without getting bored. They're wired that way.

Immersion helps. Although once in pretty poison oak is enough.

Apurimac, I totally agree (even though I'm not diagnosed w/ ADHD). I've seen people who supposedly have it, and who resort to taking pills for the sake of pulling all-nighters and so and so... But without being much more productive or focused than without them. I would say the pill effect is merely psychological. I've also seen a person perform marvelously without a single pill in months (again, they've been diagnosed for years).

I mean, nowadays - who doesn't find it hard to focus!? I would think it's a matter of training yourself, or simply giving up and going to see a doc for some power boost. Isn't there a pill for everything nowadays? And we could all use a little attention enhancing... But it is ultimately a question of whether you want to alleviate, or cure.

Just my two cents.

It's nice to hear you think it's a bullshit syndrome. How 'bout this, as a kid did you hate when the their were nice days outside and the windows could be open b/c the rustling of the leaves distracted you from concentrating on what the teacher was saying. Try NEVER being able to finish ANY project. Can you seriously follow five conversations at once and know EXACTLY what song is playing in the background? I remember one evening I went to a dance club with a whole bunch of friends. I was the only one that had to go lay down and put my my pillow over my head b/c I just couldn't handle any more noise.
Then to top it all off coming home from stores such as Best Buy and Circuit City and being so exhausted from all the stimuli coming at you that you have to take a nap.

Now tell me, does that sound like a lot of bullshit? I agree I think it's gotten way over diagnosed these days in kids, but it it real and it does greatly affect some people. Lots of people are able to go through life and live successful lives and that's great, but after spending my entire life "training" myself I gave in and began to pop a pill. Although I do admit it's not a cure, it does make my life a whole lot more tolerable.

Thanks TK for starting this thread.

I'm feelin' ya on the BestBuy and other large department stores, tuna. I occasionally go to Target or the Mall and can really only spend an hour or two max. Once home, I usually have to decompress for a couple of hours. (When I traveled solo in Europe, I had to give myself 'alone' time daily because over stimulation).

...But I've never been diagnosed as ADD/ADHD. I was tested once but was "one characteristic" shy of the requirements. I've often wanted to have another round of testing to get a second opinion but just haven't.

To say it's a bullshit syndrome is to be ignorant. I do, however, believe it is often used at a catch all condition for many an unruly kid. My mom who taught middle school kids for over 25 years. She can tell the difference between just a hyper active kid and one who is ADD/ADHD diagnosed with astonishing accuracy.

there is a difference between being a kid and being a kid with adhd. yeah, many parents and teachers are trying to drug the kids into behaving, but there are real neurological issues meds do really help. Not all the drugs are stimulants, and yes - I had a classmate abuse them for allnighters.

I wish I was diagnosed much earlier in my life (but they didn't know much in the 70s), so looking back at my elementary report cards, the behavior is clearly documented.

More folks are getting diagnosed because the science has gotten better, but that doesn't mean that all diagnoses are accurate. 60% who were adhd as kids continue life with add. I'm scared of the longterm effects of the drugs and I don't know what would have happened if I started the meds earlier in life. So it is wise to be cautious in jumping to a Brave New World solution. The alternative (and complimentary) treatment is coaching for organizational skills and focusing exercises.


check out add.org for more info, but nothing beats a professional diagnosis. I got mine at the UPenn psychiatric meds clinic...

great way of explaining it tunamelt. I was diagnosed with ADD in middle school and soon found out that I was also allergic to Ritalin. Therapy and meditation have worked pretty well for me. Also going headphones pretty much all day has helped as well.

After 17 days in Japan, I was standing in a store and had a breakdown. I realized i could hear 8 different tv's playing different jingles at the same time....

I sleep with ear plugs proabably 4 times a week.

I completely agree with what treekiller says. One definitely should jump cautiously into the unknown world of meds. A lot of these drugs have not been on the market that long and we have yet to see what the longterm side effects are. Getting a professional diagnosis is obviously key. Also, there are different kinds of ADD out there. Here's the list in case you don't have the attention span to actually use the link

Research literature, recent books, and common sense, all point to the fact that there are different types, or styles, of ADHD. In the past we referred to Attention Deficit Disorder: Inattentive Type, or Impulsive/Hyperactive Type, or a Combined Type. Today the diagnostic differences are a bit less clear, but the reality doesn't change.

1. Classic ADD - Inattentive, distractible, disorganized. Perhaps hyperactive, restless and impulsive.
2. Inattentive ADD - Inattentive, and disorganized.
3. Over-focused ADD - Trouble shifting attention, frequently stuck in loops of negative thoughts, obsessive, excessive worry, inflexible, oppositional and argumentative.
4. Temporal Lobe ADD - Inattentive and irritable, aggressive, dark thoughts, mood instability, very impulsive. May break rules, fight, be defiant, and very disobedient. Poor handwriting and trouble learning are common.
5. Limbic System ADD - Inattentive, chronic low-grade depression, negative, low energy, feelings of hopelessness and worthlessness.
6. Ring of Fire ADD - Inattentive, extremely distractible, angry, irritable, overly sensitive to the environment, hyperverbal, extremely oppositional, possible cyclic moodiness.

My symptoms most closely fit #5.

I personally think learning organizational skills is the key to everything and am fortunate to have learned that skill early on in life. I've never tried focusing exercises and would be interested in trying a few. Hopefully they don't last too long ;o)

TheAquino - LOL! I'm known to sleep with earplugs as well, esp when it is really windy or rainy outside. The noise keeps me from falling asleep.

Yes to all of the above.

Tuna, I know you think you're sick, and that's fine and all. Then again years ago we used to have words for people like you and me, and frankly that word was genius. Albert Einstein was in similar straits from what I know of him as a kid and probably even as an adult. My father, one of the smartest men I know, is very similar, he hates crowds and his brain literrally shuts down when he's overstimulated (seizures). All I am saying is that what might simply be a natural aspect of a persons neurology has been diagnosed as a disease/syndrome in the last 20 years and I think thats because drug manufacturers see a gold mine in this market. There is no such thing as "normal" as far as a person's psyche/brain is wired, we are all different. I may have grown out of my "ADD" stage slightly but I still hate crowds, prefer bars and lounges to clubs, get exhausted when I go shopping and find myself surfing archinect when I should be working. Do I take a pill to solve this? No, I get some tea, I calm down, I put music on and I get on with it.

All I'm saying folks is don't drink the Kool-Aid because there are power systems out there that would love it if we all became complacent sheep and good workers because of bullshit psyche diagnoses. If you gotta pop pills to live the life you want to live then to each his own, but I am just very wary of that thinking.

watch this: http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/147.html

Apu - I've never considered my self as sick, and I wasn't diagnosed until I was 28. Although I may joke about it, I actually think it gives me step up on others b/c I've already worked through and moved on to the next phase before most have even gotten that far. And my friends will tell you I'm definitely not a "complacent sheep" b/c I take meds. The question I'd like to ask you is what kind of tea you drink and how much. Caffeine is a stimulant you know? There are a lot of people who use caffeine instead of drugs to slow their brains down. To each his own but don't condemn people for the choices they make.

When I saw this thread I got excited b/c I was hoping it would perhaps bring forth some discussion on some of the exercise/ practices/activities people use to when they are having trouble focusing as I have of late, or perhaps helping others realize "Oh I'm not crazy, my brain just works differently from others". But when I see people calling it a bunch of bullshit than you know I'll be up there giving you reasons as to why it's not.

Now.... Does anyone out there have any suggestions for calming my brain and all it's racing. It's been going a mile a minute for several days and tea ad music don't seem to be helping. Thanks,

Green tea is best for focusing IMO, but I prefer the taste of black, specifically earl grey. I find english/irish breakfast teas to be a bit too strong IMO. I drink about 1 cup with lunch but usually I find the activity of just getting away from what I'm doing and getting a cup of tea/coffee to be enough to refocus. Sometimes you have to give in to the distraction in order to refocus the mind, at least that's how my brain works.

I'm sorry if i was a bit harsh, you just have to understand I don't consider ADD to be a disease anymore than I consider chocolate addiction to be a disease. I think some people's brains are wired to be overstimulated while others or not and that this quest for "normalcy of the mind" is some kind of corporate engineered effort to make us all complacent workers.

Don't get me wrong, some folks are legitimately fucked in the head. Bipolar is a serious disorder, schizophrenia is a serious disorder, severe autisim is a serious disorder but ADD? Maybe there are extreme forms of it but you could probably call those folks out as manics or manic-depressives rather than ADD.

Try mate tea.

Apu-

I married a mental health PhD, and yes there is reason to be cynical about drug companies. But many of the new diagnoses are based on greater understanding of the brain and neurological system. its only when meds get inappropriately dispensed do the problems really start.

beyond the symptoms, my shrink used my positive response to the meds as confirmation. If you don't have ADD, then you just get buzzed/high versus focused and less impulsive.

I'm not sure if i'd put my future son on meds as a kid versus occupational therapy till he was much older. But don't hide your head in the sand just cause you hate the pharmacology-industrial complex.

I don't need pills, so I don't take 'em.

To each their own but you can understand my weariness of this no?

speed kills

i for one have never taken caffeine after seeing how addictive it was to others, so much so they would pay me to quit. this actually got me to be against all 'state drugs' alc and tobacco being the other ones before i even would try them
but then being a vegan raw food vegetarian all my life too helps keep me of the mindset to avoid those toxins in the first place too.

not having a diagnosis, hearing that add is rubbish, hearing everybody has it, and also hearing it is a form of evolution all makes me come to the conclusion to embrace the self and not do drugs as well, to force change is unnatural and a form of negative manipulation for it's side effects and the pharma industrial complex's enrichment.

You're probably a much healthier man than I anti. Then again I'm also skeptical about veganism, but to each their own.

Can ADD or ADHD develop later on in life, say into your 30s? I never had a problem growing up and even into my late 20s, but the past couple years, I can't seem to concentrate at work.

I know my father has become very impatient in his old age, I assume its because he is getting up there in age and doesn't have as much time for people's bullshit.

dml955i - my difficulties in focusing became more pronounced the older I got as I obviously have added responsibility, but my mother said I'd always had issues from the time I was little (she has an EdD in counseling/mental health therapy).

One question I have for you is what kinds of things do you do to organize your thoughts/tasks at work. This may be the real reason you are having a hard time concentrating. I'd check out this thread for some ideas on how to better manage multiple tasks and time constraints. Stress, a lot of times, presents itself as ADD when in fact, it's just stress.

if they say observation free from judgment is the highest form of human intelligence what is judgment? not to say anything about your mom or anybody who does any diagnosis but i follow the person centered aproach of Carl Rogers

dml-
adult ADD is something that is first manifested as a kid, so no it can't. depression causes many of the same symptoms as ADD in lack of focus, irritability, easy distraction, and others. but depression doesn't respond to add meds, just like add doesn't respond to depression meds, but not all depression responds to meds. so see a pro, the can help (unless you're tom cruise).

That's nice and all Anti but there has been a lot of research out there on neurochemicals since the time of Carl Rogers and a lot greater understanding how they influence the functions of the brain. My mother has studied ADD and PTSD (more specifically brain trauma) for 10 years, has actually written a few published articles on such topics, and I think lead a few seminars too, so I'm thinking she might have a leg to stand on. But who knows, maybe reading a few books on behavior makes people an expert too. I'm not expert so this is as far as I feel comfortable on going with the subject of neurochemistry or anything else.

Dr Daniel Amen has written many books about ADD, if you are interested, check them out. Driven to Distraction was a book that personally help me better understand myself better.

In the case of nutrition/diet, I have heard that people with different types of ADD do better with certain diets. I personally try to make a conscious effort to eat more high protein foods and less simple carbohydrates as this seems on a whole to help me focus and concentrate. I tend to notice my focus wanes when I eat more sugar

In my experience. super focus or 15 projects started with none of them finished and the chances of them being finished unlikely.

I can't find the source, and it's been a while since I learned it (so don't quote me), but I thought Einstein had an office where he had the room to pace in a straight line, circumambulate around and around, a podium to stand and think and write, and a couch to rest.

It may have something to do with getting some of the brain to work on something physical, while the other part can get down to thinking.

treekiller -- thank you.
What no one here know ,is that for the past 7 years I have run a support group with Aspergers, parents ,family of. For seven years _each_ monday so people know that each minday, there are a nice place where you get what you pay, to put it that way.--- and it has been a great succes with mant succes stories, I reconise what you say.

Aspergers on the other hand is a 100% legit neurological disorder.

apu-

there are physical difference in the brains of folks with ADHD and 'neurotypical' folks. So what else do we need to prove to you that ADD is '100% legitimate'?


Per- Some of the smartest folks I know have aspergers.

There's a physical difference between everybody's brains, but at which point do we stop classifying a brain as "normal" and begin calling it "abnormal"?

The thing about neuro science (and biology in general) is that it is a very young field of scientific study and different theories on the brain are developed in the scientific community on a daily basis. Add in the fact that most of these studies are sponsored by pharmacuticals (sp) and you have a recipe for confusion and misdiagnoses. It's not like F=ma or even E=mc^2, the brain is a fantastically complex thing, and frankly in my opinion much more research has to be performed before prescribing drugs for neurological disorders like ADD is established. These are powerful drugs that are being prescribed to children and I remember when ritalin first came on the scene no one knew why it worked, they just knew it worked to calm kids down which is the opposite way drug prescription should work.

When it comes to science it can be very difficult to establish a definite "truth". Hell, it only took a couple of centuries for Einstein to come along and completely rewrite the laws of Newtonian gravity so you can imagine how different our theories on something as complex as the human brain will be in another 100 years.

Driven to Distraction is a great book. It helped me and my family a lot.

"Per- Some of the smartest folks I know have aspergers."

Copy that --- but one has to be very down to the letter, no hidden meaning ,it's the exact words when communicating. also when you think about it ; being very good at a particular thing ,mean you focused your mind in one particular direction -- so question are, if anything more than average inteligence is nessery , just training what brains you has ,in the way Aspergers do, will develob a high but very specialised inteligense.
------- Get my point ?

Shit!!! I would have never guess my mother's been working for the pharmacutical companies this past decade. I mean she's one of those people doing research. Thanks for clearing that up Apu. I'm going to go hit her up for some money now.

BUT ANYWAY... back to a question I had in one of my previous posts. What kinds of various things do people do around here to help them focus, refocus, concentrate, etc. their attention to thing that need to be taken care of? I've been having some difficulty these past few weeks and none of my usual stuff is working and it's beginning to effect my sleep.

I like how everybody here is related to a neuro scientist except me.

I am however related to a scientist (multiple scientists actually) and I know the issues that can arise in the quest for greater knowledge.

I'm not calling out anybodies moms I just don't believe the hype and I never will until I see enough objective research that actually proves that everybody who can't sit still for 30 minutes needs to pop uppers/downers 'till they feel good. Period.

That's fine Apu, but you've totally gotten away from why I originally sought out this thread, before I felt I had to show the other side of the story, so let me reiterate... I even welcome you to give me some suggestions apart from tea and music... those things at the present time are not working.

BUT ANYWAY... back to a question I had in one of my previous posts. What kinds of various things do people do around here to help them focus, refocus, concentrate, etc. their attention to thing that need to be taken care of? I've been having some difficulty these past few weeks and none of my usual stuff is working and it's beginning to effect my sleep.

archinect, archinect, and more archinect
(plus KCRW on the ear buds)
is my coping mechanism.

also lists, a note pad, and outlook reminding me of stuff.

i am looking for meds.

blue, yellow, or pink?

1 2 3 4

Are you prepared for am alternative suggestion -- what is said to realy make a differ .
Fish oil.

Stop laughing , it work.

Suger -- make sometime a temp. release but has to be the right sort.

About the fishy thing, it also has a documented good effect on your mental ability , it's today a must . Long story that is scientific proven by study in greenland . There for same reson a number of life style sickness are rare.

Think this sound silli ; your loss.

Per I don't think it sounds silly at all, esp. the fish oil. I've been meaning to see if it helps, I've just never gotten around to it. My loss I guess. Thanks for the auggestion.

hemp oil , go vegan fight for ecology

Exactly go grow some fish !

besides you don't want heavy metal poisoning it's not pretty

and that poisons every bodies water supply.

thanks to LAtimes.

Just hope that you don't drink water downstream from a large university!

how about the myth of redemptive violence?

add what a lie


hey i am ATT ;)

I have been (recently) diagnosed with ADHD - IT. I have tried stimulants, but so far nothing seems to work (I may concentrate better but it is more typically on the internet than anything I really want and/or need to be doing). Omega 3 supplements seem to help a bit, but I believe this does not have an instant effect -- you need to take it for about a month straight (I've read) before it really helps. I honestly have to wait for my random "spurts" of concentration... sometimes these don't come for days or weeks. I manage to make A's but I work about 10x longer than my peers who are able to work more efficiently/consistently. (Or rather I TRY to work for about 10x longer... by this I mean that I am sitting at my desk trying to "will" myself to work all day, even though I may totally love the project I am trying to work on.)

ADHD is difficult to understand because EVERYONE suffers from the symptoms to some degree. You must think of it as you would think of sadness vs. depression: everyone experiences sadness, but when it completely consumes your life it may take something beyond your mental control (like medicine) to help you overcome it.

Someone taking stimulants with the disorder does not have an advantage... the medicine should just help them get back to "average". Someone without the disorder will essentially have superpowers (or a heart attack) upon taking it, hence its popularity and notoriety.

cmn- try getting a behavior coach if the drugs don't work. there are alternative meds to the 'stimulants' that teenagers sell to their peers. if you haven't tried stattera, ask your doc for some.