Today me and my co-worker had what was pretty much a final review with a client, we were supposed to send out the documents for bidding tomorrow afternoon. The design was good for our budget, and our client has been all for everything we have presented.
Today his wife showed up in the meeting with the interior decorator whos favaorite word is "faux". Nothing went well, now crown molding is going in everywhere along with faux finishes, and maybe some of our alcoves which were to hold the menu boards for the shop will be arches.
Since it is pretty much the first thing I have really been completely involved in the design process about, and it was going to happen until this morning, I am just a bit ticked/upset about the whole thing. Just thought I would vent a bit and see what other things like this have happened with all of you.
women and interior decorators, both bad for architecture!!
kidding.
How many times did either you or your co-worker say "no" during the meeting? Compromise can be ugly and showing a client what they want is a subtle process, more so when there are several contacts/decision makers involved.
Why were there decorators there in the first place? Were they meant to be part of the design process the entire time? There MUST be some sort of legal issue that defines collaboration?
basically, there was no clue about this interior decorator until last week when she showed up at our meeting. we pretty much took care of her at that point when it was just me my co-worker, the client, and her. she was pretty much relegated to some color and tile patterns in some areas at that point.
this week, the client and his wife show up, and the interior decorator. the clients wife doesn't like what we have done, and the faux began unbridled. the guy who we thought we were working for pretty much shut up, and his wife and the interior decorator started throwing down the crown molding card.
really sucks. working on something bitchin now though, that has cheered my spirits.
oh, and we were never informed of the interior decorator until last week, or the guy who will be doing the counter (the counter we designed is now out of the question according to the wife, and will be replaced by a copper counter by this other guy they have.
its going to be a giant clusterfuck by the time all is said and done.
Perhaps you should realize that you need to put some effort into earning the respect of the "wife" and the interior designer. One way to earn their respect is to demonstrate that you respect them. Don't just poo poo everything they propose. Architecture is the art of compromise (was it Robert A.M. Stern who said this?). Work with them and gosh maybe they will work with you.
we didn't just shit on everything the interior decorator and wife were saying. we had been doing this thing for a month before they came in and basically told us how it was going to go down. i don't have a problem with compromise, i have a problem with someone coming in at the last minute and changing the whole character of the design with no regard to what we did. we liked some of the things the wife said and made sure it was recognized that we agreed with her, but after that nothing we said mattered anymore.
what's your contractual position to these people? how is the guy mentioned in the contract? this is about competence, and the extra time u'll have to put in in order to include the last minute changes (which, oooops, means extra fees)...as soon as he realizes he'll be spending extra cash on the decorator he'll be shaking the shit out of that woman...
well - this reveals alot about the clients relationship. he is satisfied with the project as-is, but wont make a stand against his wife when she brings in what she really wants. You cant win here, because she is the one who has the power in this situation (as he has just shown).
you can either push him to fight her (in my experience, not likely if he has just rolled over so far) or try to resist the designer and risk losing the job entirely.
I have seen this happen a few times at my old office, and last time it happened we walked away from the job. Same exact situation too. It showed they had no respect for our work at all and we didnt want to continue after that.
As an Interior Design student I'd like to apologize on behalf of all rational and talented designers. I assure you, that is not what we are taught in school. That might be what they teach in all of those correspondence courses that advertise between ronco infomercials in the middle of the night, though. Really, these stories are an embarrassment to us.
Seriously, I would find it extraordinarily awkward to join the design team in the final phases. Unless I felt that my vision coincides with the vision of those who've invested more time in it, I'd politely refuse the job.
Of course I understand, from what you're saying, that she's really not a thinker, and probably doesn't know that her "ideas" are punishable by death in some cultures. I'm not really good at having my designs contested by idiots, so, I can only begin to imagine your agony. If I were you, I'd bind and gag her with wallpaper border and dump her in a ditch.
What irritates me more than her bad ideas is the part where she goes to the wife to get her way, and then sits in on the final meeting stewing in her own sick vindication. It's sort of like when you were a kid and your mom would make you take your kid brother with you to hang out with your friends. I can sort of picture her sitting at the table with her arms crossed saying "mom said you have to play with me." It's immature, unprofessional and (she should appreciate this) a social faux pas.
In defense of the interior designer... not knowing any more about the situation than what you described, it is quite likely that the interior designer was either not told there was an architect until you all sat down at the meeting, or told that you guys were simply doing a shell for her to fill. There was no doubt some miss-communication between husband and wife, him perhaps not understanding the role of the interior designer, or the husband was hoping to finish the project without her involvement but somehow she caught wind of it (unlikely). All of our work is residential, and usually there are 2 people involved in the decision-making process. Often one person takes the lead and the other chimes in when it comes to finishes, etc. Negotiating the tastes and desires of 2 people is a very sensitive and tricky task. A lesson to learn from this is in the future find out if any other deisgn professionals are going to be involved, and if any spouses, partners etc. need to have a say. At least if you talk about it in the beginning it will make more sense for you to stand up for your ideas if an interiors person is brought in at the last minute or if the wife suddenly shows up. As it is, you were caught off guard, you don't have any idea what was said between husband and wife, wife and interior designer, etc.. The best you can do is attempt to compromise, act professional, and make sure you get paid. Sometimes you just have to give in though and get the job done. You will ALWAYS have to compromise, whether it be when dealing with the client, other consultants, or the contractor.
interior carnage
Today me and my co-worker had what was pretty much a final review with a client, we were supposed to send out the documents for bidding tomorrow afternoon. The design was good for our budget, and our client has been all for everything we have presented.
Today his wife showed up in the meeting with the interior decorator whos favaorite word is "faux". Nothing went well, now crown molding is going in everywhere along with faux finishes, and maybe some of our alcoves which were to hold the menu boards for the shop will be arches.
Since it is pretty much the first thing I have really been completely involved in the design process about, and it was going to happen until this morning, I am just a bit ticked/upset about the whole thing. Just thought I would vent a bit and see what other things like this have happened with all of you.
women and interior decorators, both bad for architecture!!
kidding.
How many times did either you or your co-worker say "no" during the meeting? Compromise can be ugly and showing a client what they want is a subtle process, more so when there are several contacts/decision makers involved.
Why were there decorators there in the first place? Were they meant to be part of the design process the entire time? There MUST be some sort of legal issue that defines collaboration?
oh
my
god
i cannot BELIEEEEEEVVE you're dissing my rococco, just wait until i tell karyn.
THAT SUCKS
dude, kidding
sorry for messing with the thread
if everything's on budget, can't you just say it'll cost too much to add the faux?
take your cutest gay friend to the next meeting and there ya go, interior decorator out of the fuckin way.
geee, we're all educated grown ups but when it comes to interior decorators we all start to sound like a bunch or redneck-jocks...
basically, there was no clue about this interior decorator until last week when she showed up at our meeting. we pretty much took care of her at that point when it was just me my co-worker, the client, and her. she was pretty much relegated to some color and tile patterns in some areas at that point.
this week, the client and his wife show up, and the interior decorator. the clients wife doesn't like what we have done, and the faux began unbridled. the guy who we thought we were working for pretty much shut up, and his wife and the interior decorator started throwing down the crown molding card.
really sucks. working on something bitchin now though, that has cheered my spirits.
oh, and we were never informed of the interior decorator until last week, or the guy who will be doing the counter (the counter we designed is now out of the question according to the wife, and will be replaced by a copper counter by this other guy they have.
its going to be a giant clusterfuck by the time all is said and done.
Perhaps you should realize that you need to put some effort into earning the respect of the "wife" and the interior designer. One way to earn their respect is to demonstrate that you respect them. Don't just poo poo everything they propose. Architecture is the art of compromise (was it Robert A.M. Stern who said this?). Work with them and gosh maybe they will work with you.
Interior designers should be limited to paint colours, wallpaper and curtains (where applicable).
no. inferior decoraiders should be relagated to filling the architecture with furniture and throw rugs...
Black spot* to the interior desacrator
sam sung,
we didn't just shit on everything the interior decorator and wife were saying. we had been doing this thing for a month before they came in and basically told us how it was going to go down. i don't have a problem with compromise, i have a problem with someone coming in at the last minute and changing the whole character of the design with no regard to what we did. we liked some of the things the wife said and made sure it was recognized that we agreed with her, but after that nothing we said mattered anymore.
seriously, submit a bill and get paid before releasing your con-docs.
what's your contractual position to these people? how is the guy mentioned in the contract? this is about competence, and the extra time u'll have to put in in order to include the last minute changes (which, oooops, means extra fees)...as soon as he realizes he'll be spending extra cash on the decorator he'll be shaking the shit out of that woman...
well - this reveals alot about the clients relationship. he is satisfied with the project as-is, but wont make a stand against his wife when she brings in what she really wants. You cant win here, because she is the one who has the power in this situation (as he has just shown).
you can either push him to fight her (in my experience, not likely if he has just rolled over so far) or try to resist the designer and risk losing the job entirely.
I have seen this happen a few times at my old office, and last time it happened we walked away from the job. Same exact situation too. It showed they had no respect for our work at all and we didnt want to continue after that.
As an Interior Design student I'd like to apologize on behalf of all rational and talented designers. I assure you, that is not what we are taught in school. That might be what they teach in all of those correspondence courses that advertise between ronco infomercials in the middle of the night, though. Really, these stories are an embarrassment to us.
Seriously, I would find it extraordinarily awkward to join the design team in the final phases. Unless I felt that my vision coincides with the vision of those who've invested more time in it, I'd politely refuse the job.
Of course I understand, from what you're saying, that she's really not a thinker, and probably doesn't know that her "ideas" are punishable by death in some cultures. I'm not really good at having my designs contested by idiots, so, I can only begin to imagine your agony. If I were you, I'd bind and gag her with wallpaper border and dump her in a ditch.
What irritates me more than her bad ideas is the part where she goes to the wife to get her way, and then sits in on the final meeting stewing in her own sick vindication. It's sort of like when you were a kid and your mom would make you take your kid brother with you to hang out with your friends. I can sort of picture her sitting at the table with her arms crossed saying "mom said you have to play with me." It's immature, unprofessional and (she should appreciate this) a social faux pas.
In defense of the interior designer... not knowing any more about the situation than what you described, it is quite likely that the interior designer was either not told there was an architect until you all sat down at the meeting, or told that you guys were simply doing a shell for her to fill. There was no doubt some miss-communication between husband and wife, him perhaps not understanding the role of the interior designer, or the husband was hoping to finish the project without her involvement but somehow she caught wind of it (unlikely). All of our work is residential, and usually there are 2 people involved in the decision-making process. Often one person takes the lead and the other chimes in when it comes to finishes, etc. Negotiating the tastes and desires of 2 people is a very sensitive and tricky task. A lesson to learn from this is in the future find out if any other deisgn professionals are going to be involved, and if any spouses, partners etc. need to have a say. At least if you talk about it in the beginning it will make more sense for you to stand up for your ideas if an interiors person is brought in at the last minute or if the wife suddenly shows up. As it is, you were caught off guard, you don't have any idea what was said between husband and wife, wife and interior designer, etc.. The best you can do is attempt to compromise, act professional, and make sure you get paid. Sometimes you just have to give in though and get the job done. You will ALWAYS have to compromise, whether it be when dealing with the client, other consultants, or the contractor.
can you imagine the posts on the interiornect forum...
"and i sat down and there was this fucking architect...no one told me about the fucking architect! he wants to take all the pink roccoco stucco down!"
"oh sweet jeeeesus, what did you do?"
"i went to karen and told her: sweety, you talk to your husband and let him fire the sucker!"
"i hate architect!"
"yeah, me too!"
"mocacchino anyone?"
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