Bill Gates invested $50,000 in microsoft and that is now worth $50 billion? Bill Gates created stocks instead of buying them.
Warren Bufffet started his company with only $100 of his own money and now is worth +/- 45 billion. Warren Buffet buys stocks at a discount and then turns the companies into shinning stars running their value up.
Why is real estate so risky? I would argue it is the investor who is risky. Does anyone know why developers make a minimum 20% profit on their projects? (Assuming they are successful)
...Because the banks require them to.
And why are developers more qualified than architects to build?
By the way Marm I never said High School should only teach you finances. I suggested that one or two classes be added to the curriculum.
I don't blame anyone other than myself for where I am and I believe in my first post I stated that I am working everyday to rid myself of debt. As far as "they" is concerned, just ask yourself who benefits?
i have benefited from what my student loans allowed me to do, and i have also benefited from what my home mortgage has allowed me to do
none of it will ever be free
i still dont understand why people are upset over having some debt
assuming it is managable for yourself, and isnt stupid debt like maxed out credit cards, or ridiculously expensive car payments you cant afford, i dont see the problem
i went to school for 7 years, in which time i used my student loan to pay for the tuition. school in the US isnt free, which means it costs money. i didnt save up money in high school to pay for it, and honestly dont think i would have been able to if i tried. but i didnt have to work while i was in school except when i wanted to for extra money. so essentially, i was had no bills during that time, and am now slowly paying it back. but for 7 years worth of life, i am willing to pay some interest on it.
i had a 1/2 scholarship to a then $35K per year school. there was no way i was going to be able to save up the rest before i went there. and honestly i wouldnt have tried, as i would have spent my life working. you miss out on a whole lot of stuff both in high school and in college if you have to also include paying for everything right then and there
Marm, your 35K/year to study architecture reminds me of a guy I work with... his son is in his third year at a 30K/year school studying graphic design. I don't argue the benefits of a great education from a great school, but I do think that very few students have been given much insight into what paying back those sorts of figures actually entails. I've done it, and I don't recommend it.
what do you recommend instead? i dont see many options unless you choose to work all through school to help offset the cost, or to go to a less expensive school. which are both fine options, just ones i didnt choose to do. maybe i am in the minority, but i knew i would be paying back student loans for a long time, it wasnt really a surprise
my last 3 years were for my masters and at a state school, so it was much less expensive than my undergrad degree was
but still, if i would have worked for those 3 years to come away with no debt, i wouldnt have been able to devote as much time to my schoolwork, which i feel is more important at that time of your career
its just a personal decision i made, and one everyone has to make. my only problem is when people say it is a waste to have student loans.
You're right, student loans are not a total waste -- of course not. But, I would say that for architects, who typically start out at 30 - 35K salaries, to have saddled themselves with 40, 50, 60, 70K or more of student loan debt -- well that's pretty bad math. I'm guilty of it, too, but I'm also willing to admit to my bad math.
i have $80k in student loan debt; i pay $339/month. people here are acting like a little debt is the end of the world. it would be nice not to have the payment, but it definitely was a good investment. i have no regrets.
btw in 15-20 yrs, that $339/month is going to seem like peanuts. it only hurts the first few years.
2.75%, if i woud have graduated a year earlier (2004) i could have knocked another percentage off. funny how little arbitrary things like the year you graduated can make a huge difference financially. aren't consolidated interest rates on student loans around 5% these days?
SandRoad:
how is a high school student supposed to be able to make cash payments at any college? i would love to know how, i am not being sarcastic
i went through 4 years of undergrad at $35K a year and then 3 years grad at $15K a year. If i had been working through all of that to make cash payments, i would not have gotten half as much out of all of it as i did. its more than the education, its the experience of all of it.
i have 60K in student loan debt and my minimum payment is $260 a month, which means i can easily pay much more. its really not an issue. plus, if i had to have been so worried and preoccupied with paying everything off while in school, i wouldnt have done that well and wouldnt have been in the position to get the job i got.
again, thats just me, and if someone else can do it, all the better for them.
yes i could have gone to a different school and ended up with like half that amount of debt, but really, there are jobs where you make much less than architects who end up with the same amount of debt. the whole idea of architects being poor is really only in comparison to doctors. architects make a very good living
2% on your student loans?! How'd you manage that? I've got 4% locked in and that's pretty good.
"bad math". I like that. I think I was subject to my own bad math too.
There is no problem with debt, but I don't think I needed 7 years of school for a professional degree (the 4 yr. Bach in arch was more than enough).
Personally, I think much of the arch profession is unnecessary, from too much theory to no financial guidance to a bs licensure program.
Hschools should also teach you about money and how the world works. I learned nothing about money in hschool or in arch school (although I did get a minor in biz, so I did learn a little, that was 'extra' work and classes).
marm - what architects make is very poor in relation to the education (both in difficulty/hours and length). How many professions require 5-7 yrs and only pay you 35k upon graduation, with expectations for top pay below $100k (average)?
That's the gripe. My biz degree, even though the minor is only a few classes, save my ass, I think, and allowed me to think outside of the box and pursue an alternative career path.
if anyone has that much of an issue with how much you get paid as an architect vs how much education you need, really shouldnt become an architect then
it seems architecture is closer to art than other normal degrees, in the amount of hours you have to put into it
we at least make a better living than artists!
these days a lot of professions require you to have a masters to have any kind of career advancement
at least architecture really only requires a 5 year degree
thats not too bad
i had 7 because i did a 4 year undergrad not specifically in architecture, so i needed my masters to ever get licensed
did anyone have any finance/economic classes in high school? i remember having some semesters of history that were all economics. it wasnt much, but it seems to be more than other people got
a biz minor seems like a really good idea no matter what your career
yup, if only they had told you that in the first semester. ALL of the people I meet think architects make a ton of money.
I didn't take any finance classes in hschool, and, as far as I know, there were none offered.
Biz minor should be encouraged, particularly for architects that need some kind of overall knowledge to move up (knowing somehing about finance, funding, etc.).
The best part about a biz minor (or any minor), is that you can take biz classes and they'll take care of the GE requirements. I have yet to meet anyone that knew this (I found out from talking with the biz school, but after half my GE req were taken care of).
That's the kind of stuff kids should be taught in hschool.
i did it through the federal government. of course if you have non-federal loans, you can't do that. i kept two smaller citiassist loans separate and just consolidated the federal loans. it worked out better for me that way. it's definitely a little confusing, but be very weary of the companies that mail bomb.
Student Loans
I will second that on the 401K , Strawbeary... we have no choices beyond Oppenheimer C class funds... soooo, I periodcially do a rollover to etrade.
and thanks, n_
Bill Gates invested $50,000 in microsoft and that is now worth $50 billion? Bill Gates created stocks instead of buying them.
Warren Bufffet started his company with only $100 of his own money and now is worth +/- 45 billion. Warren Buffet buys stocks at a discount and then turns the companies into shinning stars running their value up.
Why is real estate so risky? I would argue it is the investor who is risky. Does anyone know why developers make a minimum 20% profit on their projects? (Assuming they are successful)
...Because the banks require them to.
And why are developers more qualified than architects to build?
By the way Marm I never said High School should only teach you finances. I suggested that one or two classes be added to the curriculum.
I don't blame anyone other than myself for where I am and I believe in my first post I stated that I am working everyday to rid myself of debt. As far as "they" is concerned, just ask yourself who benefits?
i have benefited from what my student loans allowed me to do, and i have also benefited from what my home mortgage has allowed me to do
none of it will ever be free
i still dont understand why people are upset over having some debt
assuming it is managable for yourself, and isnt stupid debt like maxed out credit cards, or ridiculously expensive car payments you cant afford, i dont see the problem
i went to school for 7 years, in which time i used my student loan to pay for the tuition. school in the US isnt free, which means it costs money. i didnt save up money in high school to pay for it, and honestly dont think i would have been able to if i tried. but i didnt have to work while i was in school except when i wanted to for extra money. so essentially, i was had no bills during that time, and am now slowly paying it back. but for 7 years worth of life, i am willing to pay some interest on it.
i had a 1/2 scholarship to a then $35K per year school. there was no way i was going to be able to save up the rest before i went there. and honestly i wouldnt have tried, as i would have spent my life working. you miss out on a whole lot of stuff both in high school and in college if you have to also include paying for everything right then and there
Marm, your 35K/year to study architecture reminds me of a guy I work with... his son is in his third year at a 30K/year school studying graphic design. I don't argue the benefits of a great education from a great school, but I do think that very few students have been given much insight into what paying back those sorts of figures actually entails. I've done it, and I don't recommend it.
what do you recommend instead? i dont see many options unless you choose to work all through school to help offset the cost, or to go to a less expensive school. which are both fine options, just ones i didnt choose to do. maybe i am in the minority, but i knew i would be paying back student loans for a long time, it wasnt really a surprise
my last 3 years were for my masters and at a state school, so it was much less expensive than my undergrad degree was
but still, if i would have worked for those 3 years to come away with no debt, i wouldnt have been able to devote as much time to my schoolwork, which i feel is more important at that time of your career
its just a personal decision i made, and one everyone has to make. my only problem is when people say it is a waste to have student loans.
I like cash payment, Marm.
You're right, student loans are not a total waste -- of course not. But, I would say that for architects, who typically start out at 30 - 35K salaries, to have saddled themselves with 40, 50, 60, 70K or more of student loan debt -- well that's pretty bad math. I'm guilty of it, too, but I'm also willing to admit to my bad math.
i have $80k in student loan debt; i pay $339/month. people here are acting like a little debt is the end of the world. it would be nice not to have the payment, but it definitely was a good investment. i have no regrets.
btw in 15-20 yrs, that $339/month is going to seem like peanuts. it only hurts the first few years.
your student loans are probably at 2% too, right? That's GOOD debt.
2.75%, if i woud have graduated a year earlier (2004) i could have knocked another percentage off. funny how little arbitrary things like the year you graduated can make a huge difference financially. aren't consolidated interest rates on student loans around 5% these days?
SandRoad:
how is a high school student supposed to be able to make cash payments at any college? i would love to know how, i am not being sarcastic
i went through 4 years of undergrad at $35K a year and then 3 years grad at $15K a year. If i had been working through all of that to make cash payments, i would not have gotten half as much out of all of it as i did. its more than the education, its the experience of all of it.
i have 60K in student loan debt and my minimum payment is $260 a month, which means i can easily pay much more. its really not an issue. plus, if i had to have been so worried and preoccupied with paying everything off while in school, i wouldnt have done that well and wouldnt have been in the position to get the job i got.
again, thats just me, and if someone else can do it, all the better for them.
yes i could have gone to a different school and ended up with like half that amount of debt, but really, there are jobs where you make much less than architects who end up with the same amount of debt. the whole idea of architects being poor is really only in comparison to doctors. architects make a very good living
2% on your student loans?! How'd you manage that? I've got 4% locked in and that's pretty good.
"bad math". I like that. I think I was subject to my own bad math too.
There is no problem with debt, but I don't think I needed 7 years of school for a professional degree (the 4 yr. Bach in arch was more than enough).
Personally, I think much of the arch profession is unnecessary, from too much theory to no financial guidance to a bs licensure program.
Hschools should also teach you about money and how the world works. I learned nothing about money in hschool or in arch school (although I did get a minor in biz, so I did learn a little, that was 'extra' work and classes).
marm - what architects make is very poor in relation to the education (both in difficulty/hours and length). How many professions require 5-7 yrs and only pay you 35k upon graduation, with expectations for top pay below $100k (average)?
That's the gripe. My biz degree, even though the minor is only a few classes, save my ass, I think, and allowed me to think outside of the box and pursue an alternative career path.
if anyone has that much of an issue with how much you get paid as an architect vs how much education you need, really shouldnt become an architect then
it seems architecture is closer to art than other normal degrees, in the amount of hours you have to put into it
we at least make a better living than artists!
these days a lot of professions require you to have a masters to have any kind of career advancement
at least architecture really only requires a 5 year degree
thats not too bad
i had 7 because i did a 4 year undergrad not specifically in architecture, so i needed my masters to ever get licensed
did anyone have any finance/economic classes in high school? i remember having some semesters of history that were all economics. it wasnt much, but it seems to be more than other people got
a biz minor seems like a really good idea no matter what your career
yup, if only they had told you that in the first semester. ALL of the people I meet think architects make a ton of money.
I didn't take any finance classes in hschool, and, as far as I know, there were none offered.
Biz minor should be encouraged, particularly for architects that need some kind of overall knowledge to move up (knowing somehing about finance, funding, etc.).
The best part about a biz minor (or any minor), is that you can take biz classes and they'll take care of the GE requirements. I have yet to meet anyone that knew this (I found out from talking with the biz school, but after half my GE req were taken care of).
That's the kind of stuff kids should be taught in hschool.
i got 2.75%. i consolidated in 2004 and again in 2005. you are allowed to do it twice.
I took macroeconomics at the local college as a senior in high school. It hurt my gradepoint as I didn't ace it, but who cares.
I LOVE that when I check out the forum, I see the President Bush has commented.
i also love that president bush "took macroeconomics at the local college as a senior in high school" and didn't ace it.
damn straight. and if you check thread central you would know I got dry humped on a bus once. See kids, anybody can be president.
man, i've never been dry humped on a bus
sigh...
i guess thats why i will never be president
to those who have consolidated, which loan consolidation companies did you sign up with?...i don't trust the ones who mail-bomb me
i just consolidated mine with sallie mae, where i originally had them
probably not the best rate around, but it was easy
i never gave any of those who mail-bombed my a second thought either
i dont trust that at all
i did it through the federal government. of course if you have non-federal loans, you can't do that. i kept two smaller citiassist loans separate and just consolidated the federal loans. it worked out better for me that way. it's definitely a little confusing, but be very weary of the companies that mail bomb.
ditto. the feds.
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