...ditto..what mdler said, but for a different reason:
Join a volunteer organization or some place like an animal shelter. As far as i can tell (and plz allow me to be a dick here) you dont have any REAL problems. You dont look like you are starving or have any physical deficiencies. Take a vacation, go to a developing country, but do not visit the tourist spots. Go see how most of the world lives, and you will come back with a new sense of purpose and thankfulness for your life.
Really, I give this advise for most of my American friends who have not seen 'real' rough times. So what if you are stuck working at a place you dont like? At least you have food to eat and the capability to think of your state of mind. Most people in the world do not have that privilege.
"It is even harder living in Los Angeles because I am surrounded by creative people who are very 'successful'."
mdler, are you serious? Remember most people in LA who are very 'successful' just claim to be.
On the same note, I know people who have worked set design jobs, and all i can say is that it seems to be glorified CAD work. If you really want I have some contacts at Lexington, one of the big set manufacturing companies. But would i recommend it - NO. Its not just thankless work, but you will be surrounded by pretentious a-holes all the time too. My advise - try a little part-time set work first.
hmmm...i'm trying to decide if this thread is legit or not. but it probably doesn't really matter.
also, i'm surprised that so many of you have shared stories of depression/hard times/whatever. persoanlly, i don't think that i've ever really been depressed. however, i have sometimes felt tired, lonely/isolated, unsuccessful, annoyed or angry with circumstances and certainly sad. but several years ago i picked up an interest in scandinavian culture (fyi - i'm a born & raised american) and one of the more insightful things that i learned in studying some of the music and movies of norway, sweden, etc is that it's okay to feel sad and that that can really be a beautiful in itself. i actually think that is something that i've always known intrinsically but hearing a swedish musician say it, kind of drove the point home.
i don't know...maybe kevorkian is not even american (although the articulation of goals such as wife, career,etc sounds like typical "american dream"propaganda) so some of this may just be attributable to american culture. remment koolhaas once observed that in european culture, you are either perfect or you are not, but that in america, everybody is perfectable (i.e., you can train harder, or you can buy perfect breats, or just take a drug and perform better, etc.)
my suspicion is that we don't need to be perfect (or even perfectible for that matter)...we just need to be ourselves
and since i'm still not sure if this thread is a joke or not, please don't email me...i've been known to laugh at losers
mdler....ditto! hollywood egos....are big! I did a movie set which never made it out of the can...cause the lead actor was killed in an accident while on camera.....it is SHIT!
mr. k, I hope you are still around..feeling better. Breathe in each day knowing that you've contributed happily to someone's life. And that person is better off for knowing you. I agree with getting a dog, puppies are even better...they have this infectious joy even when you try to potty train them. I've spent the last few days with a friends dog, and I can't put into words how happy she makes me feel...the dog honest. And remember to smile...those gleaming pearls can make the stress melt away.
Meta, I laughed out loud when I read your post, even in this state, I agree with a lot of what you wrote.
Puddles, I am real, this is real, and I am still alive;)...
Meat is not the answer, although I wish it was.
sameold, I do agree with you, but as I noted above it doesn't really change anything, except I feel like more of a schmuck for feeling like this, when there are people a hell of a lot more in dire need of assistance than myself.
Last night and my first session was good, felt good to get this off, but at the same time unloading like that - an outpouring of thoughts - seems selfish?
There were a few things that surprised me; one being when she asked me if I was close to anyone, like close enough to confide in about these emotions, and I was surprised to say that there was not.
Two thoughts:
1) One of the quickest ways out of depression is to help others. Get outside your own head, volunteer for the Obama campaign (as you said above.) Depression comes when we have nothing to focus on but our own faults and inadequacies.
2) Another real source of depression is a sense of futility about the future. If you can't see how you're going to make a difference, if your career seems on a dead-end path, find ways to create a light at the end of the tunnel. Do something meaningful with your evenings, like teaching at a community college, volunteering, taking up boxing or whatever. Get outside your own head, and start to make a future you can believe in.
Surprise yourself, you wife, and those around you. Break your routines.
As I've found on other threads, you and me have diametrically opposed beliefs about virtually everything.
Yours seem like the Kurt Cobain mode of therapy. His cure for his depression was to blow his brains out with a shotgun in a heroin-induced stupor. I doubt many people who study clinical depression would advocate this approach.
I'm thinking more along the lines of what the Dalai Lama or Jimmy Carter or tikkun olam might advocate. Do something to help the world, and you'll help yourself.
Having been through some episodes of depression, I guarantee you that the cure is NOT even more and deeper depression.
One year, for Lent (which I don't really celebrate because I'm not that religious, but I do consider my life when Lent starts and decide if there is something I should either start doing or stop doing for the next few weeks), I gave up revenge fantasies. This was when I walked to work in Philly, and hardly a moment of that pedestrian commute passed that I didn't get into arguments in my head with the people I encountered: smoker exhaling right as I walk by, car driver cutting me off in the crosswalk, etc.
So I would compose these imagined confrontations in my mind as I walked, telling these rude people off mentally. So one year for Lent I stopped doing it. When an angry thought would enter my head, I'd gently push it aside and remind myself I wasn't going to waste my mental energy, and my time outside getting exercise, on inconsiderate people about whom I was powerless. It was relatively easy to do, in part because I knew it was only for a fixed time. I was definitely a happier person during those few weeks.
I highly suggest this exercise, which is similar to what Strawbeary posted above. When the angry thoughts arrive in your brain, just push them aside, gently, and think of something else.
Mr. K, i am pretty sure that thanks to this thread something must have already changed, even the tiniest thing should have changed, have you gotten a pet yet? have you gotten exercise?
i always think that to get help you must want to help yourself first .so tell us about the improvements you have made or at least about the attempts and failures
i think its great how many people have made a pause in their daily lives to pitch in with some words of advice that could help, they have certainly helped me
I would vote for ARC American Retarded Citizens...there is a chapter near you. This organization reaches out to people who are locked into the system....do you think they get to vote like you or me....no.
They are Gods Children tossed among us and they need every able body to stand for their cause to live life to its fullest. Screw politics and presidential elections. You Will Never Find Love any Better!
Architects can make their lives better by giving time, Architectural Time. Help make their places better to live...this is an aging population and their needs are compounded with physical needs along with mental needs. Yes and archinect does rock!... so lets rock together...and make a difference.. as jfk said, "Ask not what your country can do for you but what can you do for your country." ARC has a website and there is an organization in your neighborhood...so
Go Do It!
I have dealt with this myself and was at one time hospitalized for depression. (Close to the "Cobain kind") I don't want this to be too long so I'll just say that for me depression is something that creeps back if I get to into a rut.
I love the dog idea. If interested, check local rescues and humane societies, you may even ind one that is house trained...I did.
Also DO NOT over look the benefits of REGULAR excercise. I have found that a good run can change my entire outlook.
meta, i at once find your position interesting and yet seemingly disingenuous. i think it's kind of like the Ayn Rand and Objectivist position; it will fail over time, and it will fail once you become married and/or have children - life is not without compromise, if you think you can live a life with another human being without compromise you are deluding yourself and depriving others around you.
if you are so commited to this existential position, then why adopt a pseudonym? why? because it allows you to play both sides without fear of reprecussion, just like i have adopted this name; which as we know is a mask of my mask. you can't have your cake and eat too.
if you think fat people don't know their fat, then you are even more delusional than i originally thought. most morbidly obese know what they are, they are confronted on a daily basis what they are, both in a societal context and a spatial one as well.
I went to the Obama meeting last night, interesting cadre of people. More about the mechanics, at least it was supposed to be, but we got endlessly sidetracked by conversations reminiscing on certain dead Senators and civics lessons. I more interested in getting the message out and less interested in the mechanics.
When in situations where I am not exactly confident in my knowledge of something I tend to listen more and say little. I try and take everything in, and let it run through the filters before saying anything. So I pretty much did not say anything. I did however volunteer to go to an out of state event to canvass.
There were these two young guys, many assumed students although they did not say they were, the intermittently feigned stoner ideals and some knowledge about the world, people like that always leave me suspicious.
I have another meeting with the therapist next week. Still a lot to say.
A few things; I eat well, I exercise, and I plan to try and run a marathon next year.
What is better? Talking is better than not talking, sometimes I feel so alone, and even if I subscribe to meta's "we are all alone and will die alone," I don't want to be alone right now.
"fat ugly stupid people need to know what they are, someone needs to tell them, even if their self-esteem is damaged...which would be the problem, they believe they are something they are not, and mistakenly tie their illusions of their being to the perception of their being."
This is a brutal world-view. Ultra-darwinistic, nihilistic, hurtful and vicious.
"we are all alone and will die alone,"
No one who is suffering from depression should even give ideas like this a moment of thought. It will lead them down the wrong path. Kevorkian is right: the best thing is to have a positive outlook on the future, spend time with people, get involved, do things outside yourself.
It's great that you went to that Obama meeting. And training for a marathon is a good idea too.
JAL, hello there! I know of many middle-aged architects here who are currently dealing with depression, midlife self-examination and disappointment, and career disatisfaction. It's seems to be an epidemic. You're literally not alone, or at least you wouldn't be here in Chicago.
Some comments for consideration:
You should consider medication rather than just talk-therapy. Depression is often due to a chemical imbalance in the brain, similar to a vitamin deficiency, regarding seratonin. Medication isn't shameful. Talk-therapy isn't going to address the root cause of your depression.
Secondly, B6/B12 vitamin deficiencies also create depression-like symptoms. Vegetarian eating habits aren't not necessarily healthy choices if you're not eating a balanced diet and getting all RDAs. You may want to check in with a nutritionist; doctor can give you prescription for a visit for insurance purposes.
Consider getting a pet. There are plenty of studies regarding pet ownership that prove it's an effective method of addressing depression and also lengthens life-expectancy among elderly.
Try increasing your social interactions outside of just homelife, like your Obama meeting. Social contact's very important for addressing depression; social isolation is bad.
Try to flag root issues related to your depression, and see if you can identify them and possibly address them in a positive manner.
Best wishes.
Nov 9, 07 10:58 am ·
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Like everything, depression is (literally!) part of a wavelength. If you learn how, catching and riding waves is exhilarating, addictive even, but nothing beats simply floating on the surface.
the world is "brutal...Ultra-darwinistic, nihilistic, hurtful and vicious."
And in equal parts, the world is loving, generous, organized, and selfless. You can't say it isn't, and you can't say you haven't benefited from the generosity of others, even via giving advice freely here.
Also, meta, you drink three Red Bulls a day? You don't think that's medicating?!?
Meta - I'm glad existentialism works for you, but I think telling someone who is depressed that they are alone in this world and they will always will be alone is pretty much the exact opposite they need to here. I actually find it kind of cruel considering K came here for support. Does saying those things make you feel better and not so alone?
Honestly I think the more negativity there is in this world, the less affective we are as a society and visa-versa.
I agree wholeheartedly with Liberty Bell, farwest1 and Chicagowoman. For all the sadness, greed and hatred in this world there is an equal amount of love, generosity and forgiveness.
K- I'm glad to hear that you went to an Obama meeting last evening. Sounds as though you've already made huge strides since you first posted.
i've always wondered whether the chemical imbalance was caused by the depression itself, and that talking was what really got to the root cause of the problem.
HMMM. Meta, generally speaking, I have yet to meet an architect that I fear on a physically level, and if you have met me 4 years ago I'd probably would have whipped your ass just for looking in my direction. Perhaps this proves some kind of point for you. Perhaps that there is little difference between homocide and suicide?
Mr. K > glad to hear you went to an Obama meeting. I am a supporter myself and volunteer whenever I have time. However, if I were you, and if you are still having trouble managing the daily grind, I would steer clear of volunteering in certain capacities. For instance, phone banking always makes me feel extremely uncomfortable, and often when I'm done with it, I feel as if I have wasted a lot of time and done nothing to help. The angst is exponentially worse if I encounter a mean person on the other end....honestly these experiences, although few, have been known to leave me in a funk for days!
So, just a little tip. Canvassing is actually kind of fun if you have a buddy to do it with. I've made new friends this way.
Nov 9, 07 3:21 pm ·
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Listening to ABBA always cures my depressions, and just the thought of being pummelled by metamechanic makes me ecstatic. I love everyone and everyone loves me!
Coming around, that'd be nice, if it were true. Are any of you claustrophobic or have experienced claustrophobia? I have had moments of claustrophobia, mostly around large groups of people with no seemingly obvious way out. It feels like this - to me - space seems to get warmer, cold sweats, peripheral vision seems to constrict, breathing becomes more difficult, yet heart rate picks up, you have a hard time focusing on something positive and your only thoughts are impending doom. To me that's it in a nut shell. Only problem is, why am I feeling this at my desk, in my office, in the middle of the day?
Sounds like an anxiety attack, which can often accompany depression. I'd mention it to your therapist or whoever you're seeing about your depression issues.
That definitely sounds like an anxiety attack. Try to believe - because it IS true, even though it is hard to believe when you are in the middle of one - that it is a temporary physical symptom and ride it out.
Ahhh the good old anxiety attack. Your description of not being able to focus on a positive though is called "catastrophizing" and is extremely common during an anxiety attack.
Also read up on the feedback loop of an anxiety attack:
Go see your GP and tell him EVERYTHING, straight up honest communication with your GP is critical to finding the best solution for you. Do NOT fear meds if you are prescribed them. People and the internet will tell you all sorts of shit about meds but trust me they can do wonders. I’m on 10mg of Lexapro daily for anxiety (GAD Generalized Anxiety Disorder) and it has made a massively positive difference in my life.
Sometime it does take time to find the right med and the right dose. Anyway this is all for you and your GP to discuss.
I would also suggest some therapy, and please again be totally honest and open with your therapist. Often just talking about it all honestly is very cathartic.
it helps to develop the "observer self" and detach yourself from the attack.. speak to your theripist about it.
Remember seeking help is not a sign of weakness but a sign of intelligence.
meta, I understand where you are going with your “push through it” approach.
The problem I found with your suggestion is my anxiety had a cumulative effect. Having an anxiety attack is like practicing for the next one. Getting through one did not make me stronger and less fearful of the next attack, it just seemed to make me better at having stronger and more frequent attacks.
I got to a stage where I was getting anxiety attacks ABOUT having an anxiety attacks, this is a well documented part of the feedback loop I posted about before.
What Lexapro has done for me is give me a buffer zone. Before I was on it I was constantly thinking about my GAD, when was the next anxiety attack coming etc. this is obviously an unhealthy though pattern, almost willing the anxiety attack into existence.
Since I’ve been on Lexapro and had some therapy, I’ve hardly had an anxiety attack at all. I am slowly forgetting that I have/HAD anxiety and starting to think in a more productive and POSITIVE way… I will stay on it for 1 year, come off and see how I go, if the anxiety returns I go back on for 3 years, come off, if it returns I will reassess my situation with my GP and therapist.
Meta, I read your post last night from home, and somehow managed to resist the urge to respond. Resisted for two reasons; first that I was sitting next to my wife and second I was logged in under my other identity. Back to your first point, I am not trolling, although I knew that perception would exist, so I have been concerned by the idea that I was being fake, I wish this was B.S.
Would it kill me? Probably not, but I am concerned by the things that are happening.
I have, in the past, been at the top of a building and looked over the parapet down at the ground, and starred for a period of time. In that period I started to imagine myself at the bottom, and became freaked out because my vision had started to feel like a reality, and that "reality" started thoughts in my head that somehow my visions would become real and I would be over the parapet - almost mystically.
Problem with your thoughts of hanging from buildings is that for you, nothing insane happened. My luck has always involved the word bad, and nothing clean ever worked itself out, most of my injuries have been dirty and incomplete. My luck would be, I'd hang from a building or jump from balcony to balcony and just wind up in a wheelchair sipping from a straw.
The other thought I had is that you scenario involves an audience, it almost always does, you don't strike me as the type that does these kinds of things in a solitary moment; you need the thrill and the exclamations of others calling you a crazy fuck. I on the other hand, hate the limelight, and am much more likely to feel shame of burdening others with this pain, and would wind up becoming a closet cutter.
Thanks everyone for the feedback. There is one person here in particular that has been a tremendous help. and for that I send my best to you and the family.
I am going to log off this thread and will not return under this identity.
Psychologists used to think primal scream therapy was a cure for anger. The theory was that getting angry relieved the stress of being an angry person.
It turned out to have exactly the opposite effect. Getting angry on purpose only makes a person more angry. It doesn't relieve anything. (This has been backed up recently by numerous studies.)
Same is true of depression or anxiety, I'd assume. Reaching rock bottom doesn't cure you of your condition, it only makes it worse.
Yes Farwest1, it's the positive feedback loop... the more anxiety you experience, the better you get at being anxious... the cycle must be broken to start recovery. The meds are helping me forget how to be anxious and worrying about future attacks. Good stuff.
i have a really hard time letting go of how i feel about work once i've left the office.
i need to pack and clean and do laundry, but i just don't feel like doing any of it, i just want to drink and mope about how shitty i feel about the project that i am about to turn into the city...
sorry, now i feel like a jerk for not reading through all this thread...and just starting to type my sorrows away.
gotta treat architecture as a hobby...... it's just a damn job...... we all get depressed about design/hours/etc...... but i think it's a matter of separation really....... some people strive to create wonderfull work while others just want to "fill the void" and say "hey i work in an architecture firm"......
over the past few days i've been trying to figure out life and where i want to be..... but soon to realize that i do alot of things and for me to give my entire life to architecture would be stupid on my part...... but i am looking for an office job just to make ends meet right now.... but i'm still gonna have that border line of letting my emotions run my life over some work that is just "work"
Arch school really sets you up for a massive fall... you are filled with so much fun, fanciful, quasi-religous archi bullshit then booted out of the nest into a world where the dollar is king and no one gives a damn about what you know. Sad.
And just think, I thought architecture was going to be the answer to all my problems.
I hate my current job-I am treated like crap by my boss and coworkers, am constanly passed over for work and never given much credit for anything I do...but it looks like I will probably have the same problem in architecture or any other job I pursuit.
I have battled depression all my life and am still fighting it (and losing). I have very few friends, and the ones I do have tend to drop me after they have used me for all I'm worth.
I have a serious lack of self esteem that has prevented me from getting ahead in life-folks tell me I'm smart, I'm attractive, that I should go to architecture school-but I just know I'm going to f*** up, just like everything else I try to do.
Anyway, sorry for hijacking this thread-I am in a really ill mood right now, so please forgive me. 870
Depression
...ditto..what mdler said, but for a different reason:
Join a volunteer organization or some place like an animal shelter. As far as i can tell (and plz allow me to be a dick here) you dont have any REAL problems. You dont look like you are starving or have any physical deficiencies. Take a vacation, go to a developing country, but do not visit the tourist spots. Go see how most of the world lives, and you will come back with a new sense of purpose and thankfulness for your life.
Really, I give this advise for most of my American friends who have not seen 'real' rough times. So what if you are stuck working at a place you dont like? At least you have food to eat and the capability to think of your state of mind. Most people in the world do not have that privilege.
Time to head off for a beer!
"It is even harder living in Los Angeles because I am surrounded by creative people who are very 'successful'."
mdler, are you serious? Remember most people in LA who are very 'successful' just claim to be.
On the same note, I know people who have worked set design jobs, and all i can say is that it seems to be glorified CAD work. If you really want I have some contacts at Lexington, one of the big set manufacturing companies. But would i recommend it - NO. Its not just thankless work, but you will be surrounded by pretentious a-holes all the time too. My advise - try a little part-time set work first.
hmmm...i'm trying to decide if this thread is legit or not. but it probably doesn't really matter.
also, i'm surprised that so many of you have shared stories of depression/hard times/whatever. persoanlly, i don't think that i've ever really been depressed. however, i have sometimes felt tired, lonely/isolated, unsuccessful, annoyed or angry with circumstances and certainly sad. but several years ago i picked up an interest in scandinavian culture (fyi - i'm a born & raised american) and one of the more insightful things that i learned in studying some of the music and movies of norway, sweden, etc is that it's okay to feel sad and that that can really be a beautiful in itself. i actually think that is something that i've always known intrinsically but hearing a swedish musician say it, kind of drove the point home.
i don't know...maybe kevorkian is not even american (although the articulation of goals such as wife, career,etc sounds like typical "american dream"propaganda) so some of this may just be attributable to american culture. remment koolhaas once observed that in european culture, you are either perfect or you are not, but that in america, everybody is perfectable (i.e., you can train harder, or you can buy perfect breats, or just take a drug and perform better, etc.)
my suspicion is that we don't need to be perfect (or even perfectible for that matter)...we just need to be ourselves
and since i'm still not sure if this thread is a joke or not, please don't email me...i've been known to laugh at losers
mdler....ditto! hollywood egos....are big! I did a movie set which never made it out of the can...cause the lead actor was killed in an accident while on camera.....it is SHIT!
mr. k, I hope you are still around..feeling better. Breathe in each day knowing that you've contributed happily to someone's life. And that person is better off for knowing you. I agree with getting a dog, puppies are even better...they have this infectious joy even when you try to potty train them. I've spent the last few days with a friends dog, and I can't put into words how happy she makes me feel...the dog honest. And remember to smile...those gleaming pearls can make the stress melt away.
have you seen a movie "Click" with Adam Sandler. Its a comedy, but the moral of the film, I think is very strong (family first, work later?)
good luck,
Meta, I laughed out loud when I read your post, even in this state, I agree with a lot of what you wrote.
Puddles, I am real, this is real, and I am still alive;)...
Meat is not the answer, although I wish it was.
sameold, I do agree with you, but as I noted above it doesn't really change anything, except I feel like more of a schmuck for feeling like this, when there are people a hell of a lot more in dire need of assistance than myself.
Last night and my first session was good, felt good to get this off, but at the same time unloading like that - an outpouring of thoughts - seems selfish?
There were a few things that surprised me; one being when she asked me if I was close to anyone, like close enough to confide in about these emotions, and I was surprised to say that there was not.
JAL
Two thoughts:
1) One of the quickest ways out of depression is to help others. Get outside your own head, volunteer for the Obama campaign (as you said above.) Depression comes when we have nothing to focus on but our own faults and inadequacies.
2) Another real source of depression is a sense of futility about the future. If you can't see how you're going to make a difference, if your career seems on a dead-end path, find ways to create a light at the end of the tunnel. Do something meaningful with your evenings, like teaching at a community college, volunteering, taking up boxing or whatever. Get outside your own head, and start to make a future you can believe in.
Surprise yourself, you wife, and those around you. Break your routines.
metamechanic,
As I've found on other threads, you and me have diametrically opposed beliefs about virtually everything.
Yours seem like the Kurt Cobain mode of therapy. His cure for his depression was to blow his brains out with a shotgun in a heroin-induced stupor. I doubt many people who study clinical depression would advocate this approach.
I'm thinking more along the lines of what the Dalai Lama or Jimmy Carter or tikkun olam might advocate. Do something to help the world, and you'll help yourself.
Having been through some episodes of depression, I guarantee you that the cure is NOT even more and deeper depression.
this is the cure...
http://www.archinect.com/forum/threads.php?id=67284_0_42_0_C
meta, you frankly sound like someone who's depressed yourself. #3 and your last comments are the ones I identify with the most.
re: being continuously angry at the world:
One year, for Lent (which I don't really celebrate because I'm not that religious, but I do consider my life when Lent starts and decide if there is something I should either start doing or stop doing for the next few weeks), I gave up revenge fantasies. This was when I walked to work in Philly, and hardly a moment of that pedestrian commute passed that I didn't get into arguments in my head with the people I encountered: smoker exhaling right as I walk by, car driver cutting me off in the crosswalk, etc.
So I would compose these imagined confrontations in my mind as I walked, telling these rude people off mentally. So one year for Lent I stopped doing it. When an angry thought would enter my head, I'd gently push it aside and remind myself I wasn't going to waste my mental energy, and my time outside getting exercise, on inconsiderate people about whom I was powerless. It was relatively easy to do, in part because I knew it was only for a fixed time. I was definitely a happier person during those few weeks.
I highly suggest this exercise, which is similar to what Strawbeary posted above. When the angry thoughts arrive in your brain, just push them aside, gently, and think of something else.
great thread!
Mr. K, i am pretty sure that thanks to this thread something must have already changed, even the tiniest thing should have changed, have you gotten a pet yet? have you gotten exercise?
i always think that to get help you must want to help yourself first .so tell us about the improvements you have made or at least about the attempts and failures
i think its great how many people have made a pause in their daily lives to pitch in with some words of advice that could help, they have certainly helped me
archinect rocks!
I would vote for ARC American Retarded Citizens...there is a chapter near you. This organization reaches out to people who are locked into the system....do you think they get to vote like you or me....no.
They are Gods Children tossed among us and they need every able body to stand for their cause to live life to its fullest. Screw politics and presidential elections. You Will Never Find Love any Better!
Architects can make their lives better by giving time, Architectural Time. Help make their places better to live...this is an aging population and their needs are compounded with physical needs along with mental needs. Yes and archinect does rock!... so lets rock together...and make a difference.. as jfk said, "Ask not what your country can do for you but what can you do for your country." ARC has a website and there is an organization in your neighborhood...so
Go Do It!
I have dealt with this myself and was at one time hospitalized for depression. (Close to the "Cobain kind") I don't want this to be too long so I'll just say that for me depression is something that creeps back if I get to into a rut.
I love the dog idea. If interested, check local rescues and humane societies, you may even ind one that is house trained...I did.
Also DO NOT over look the benefits of REGULAR excercise. I have found that a good run can change my entire outlook.
meta, i at once find your position interesting and yet seemingly disingenuous. i think it's kind of like the Ayn Rand and Objectivist position; it will fail over time, and it will fail once you become married and/or have children - life is not without compromise, if you think you can live a life with another human being without compromise you are deluding yourself and depriving others around you.
if you are so commited to this existential position, then why adopt a pseudonym? why? because it allows you to play both sides without fear of reprecussion, just like i have adopted this name; which as we know is a mask of my mask. you can't have your cake and eat too.
if you think fat people don't know their fat, then you are even more delusional than i originally thought. most morbidly obese know what they are, they are confronted on a daily basis what they are, both in a societal context and a spatial one as well.
I went to the Obama meeting last night, interesting cadre of people. More about the mechanics, at least it was supposed to be, but we got endlessly sidetracked by conversations reminiscing on certain dead Senators and civics lessons. I more interested in getting the message out and less interested in the mechanics.
When in situations where I am not exactly confident in my knowledge of something I tend to listen more and say little. I try and take everything in, and let it run through the filters before saying anything. So I pretty much did not say anything. I did however volunteer to go to an out of state event to canvass.
There were these two young guys, many assumed students although they did not say they were, the intermittently feigned stoner ideals and some knowledge about the world, people like that always leave me suspicious.
I have another meeting with the therapist next week. Still a lot to say.
A few things; I eat well, I exercise, and I plan to try and run a marathon next year.
What is better? Talking is better than not talking, sometimes I feel so alone, and even if I subscribe to meta's "we are all alone and will die alone," I don't want to be alone right now.
JAL
"fat ugly stupid people need to know what they are, someone needs to tell them, even if their self-esteem is damaged...which would be the problem, they believe they are something they are not, and mistakenly tie their illusions of their being to the perception of their being."
This is a brutal world-view. Ultra-darwinistic, nihilistic, hurtful and vicious.
"we are all alone and will die alone,"
No one who is suffering from depression should even give ideas like this a moment of thought. It will lead them down the wrong path. Kevorkian is right: the best thing is to have a positive outlook on the future, spend time with people, get involved, do things outside yourself.
It's great that you went to that Obama meeting. And training for a marathon is a good idea too.
JAL, hello there! I know of many middle-aged architects here who are currently dealing with depression, midlife self-examination and disappointment, and career disatisfaction. It's seems to be an epidemic. You're literally not alone, or at least you wouldn't be here in Chicago.
Some comments for consideration:
You should consider medication rather than just talk-therapy. Depression is often due to a chemical imbalance in the brain, similar to a vitamin deficiency, regarding seratonin. Medication isn't shameful. Talk-therapy isn't going to address the root cause of your depression.
Secondly, B6/B12 vitamin deficiencies also create depression-like symptoms. Vegetarian eating habits aren't not necessarily healthy choices if you're not eating a balanced diet and getting all RDAs. You may want to check in with a nutritionist; doctor can give you prescription for a visit for insurance purposes.
Consider getting a pet. There are plenty of studies regarding pet ownership that prove it's an effective method of addressing depression and also lengthens life-expectancy among elderly.
Try increasing your social interactions outside of just homelife, like your Obama meeting. Social contact's very important for addressing depression; social isolation is bad.
Try to flag root issues related to your depression, and see if you can identify them and possibly address them in a positive manner.
Best wishes.
Like everything, depression is (literally!) part of a wavelength. If you learn how, catching and riding waves is exhilarating, addictive even, but nothing beats simply floating on the surface.
And in equal parts, the world is loving, generous, organized, and selfless. You can't say it isn't, and you can't say you haven't benefited from the generosity of others, even via giving advice freely here.
Also, meta, you drink three Red Bulls a day? You don't think that's medicating?!?
Meta - I'm glad existentialism works for you, but I think telling someone who is depressed that they are alone in this world and they will always will be alone is pretty much the exact opposite they need to here. I actually find it kind of cruel considering K came here for support. Does saying those things make you feel better and not so alone?
Honestly I think the more negativity there is in this world, the less affective we are as a society and visa-versa.
I agree wholeheartedly with Liberty Bell, farwest1 and Chicagowoman. For all the sadness, greed and hatred in this world there is an equal amount of love, generosity and forgiveness.
K- I'm glad to hear that you went to an Obama meeting last evening. Sounds as though you've already made huge strides since you first posted.
i've always wondered whether the chemical imbalance was caused by the depression itself, and that talking was what really got to the root cause of the problem.
HMMM. Meta, generally speaking, I have yet to meet an architect that I fear on a physically level, and if you have met me 4 years ago I'd probably would have whipped your ass just for looking in my direction. Perhaps this proves some kind of point for you. Perhaps that there is little difference between homocide and suicide?
Mr. K > glad to hear you went to an Obama meeting. I am a supporter myself and volunteer whenever I have time. However, if I were you, and if you are still having trouble managing the daily grind, I would steer clear of volunteering in certain capacities. For instance, phone banking always makes me feel extremely uncomfortable, and often when I'm done with it, I feel as if I have wasted a lot of time and done nothing to help. The angst is exponentially worse if I encounter a mean person on the other end....honestly these experiences, although few, have been known to leave me in a funk for days!
So, just a little tip. Canvassing is actually kind of fun if you have a buddy to do it with. I've made new friends this way.
Listening to ABBA always cures my depressions, and just the thought of being pummelled by metamechanic makes me ecstatic. I love everyone and everyone loves me!
That's actually a very lovely photo meta.
Coming around, that'd be nice, if it were true. Are any of you claustrophobic or have experienced claustrophobia? I have had moments of claustrophobia, mostly around large groups of people with no seemingly obvious way out. It feels like this - to me - space seems to get warmer, cold sweats, peripheral vision seems to constrict, breathing becomes more difficult, yet heart rate picks up, you have a hard time focusing on something positive and your only thoughts are impending doom. To me that's it in a nut shell. Only problem is, why am I feeling this at my desk, in my office, in the middle of the day?
What the funk?
Sounds like an anxiety attack, which can often accompany depression. I'd mention it to your therapist or whoever you're seeing about your depression issues.
That definitely sounds like an anxiety attack. Try to believe - because it IS true, even though it is hard to believe when you are in the middle of one - that it is a temporary physical symptom and ride it out.
stay away from Zoloft
Ahhh the good old anxiety attack. Your description of not being able to focus on a positive though is called "catastrophizing" and is extremely common during an anxiety attack.
Also read up on the feedback loop of an anxiety attack:
http://www.csulb.edu/~tstevens/hrunway.htm
Go see your GP and tell him EVERYTHING, straight up honest communication with your GP is critical to finding the best solution for you. Do NOT fear meds if you are prescribed them. People and the internet will tell you all sorts of shit about meds but trust me they can do wonders. I’m on 10mg of Lexapro daily for anxiety (GAD Generalized Anxiety Disorder) and it has made a massively positive difference in my life.
Sometime it does take time to find the right med and the right dose. Anyway this is all for you and your GP to discuss.
I would also suggest some therapy, and please again be totally honest and open with your therapist. Often just talking about it all honestly is very cathartic.
it helps to develop the "observer self" and detach yourself from the attack.. speak to your theripist about it.
Remember seeking help is not a sign of weakness but a sign of intelligence.
meta, I understand where you are going with your “push through it” approach.
The problem I found with your suggestion is my anxiety had a cumulative effect. Having an anxiety attack is like practicing for the next one. Getting through one did not make me stronger and less fearful of the next attack, it just seemed to make me better at having stronger and more frequent attacks.
I got to a stage where I was getting anxiety attacks ABOUT having an anxiety attacks, this is a well documented part of the feedback loop I posted about before.
What Lexapro has done for me is give me a buffer zone. Before I was on it I was constantly thinking about my GAD, when was the next anxiety attack coming etc. this is obviously an unhealthy though pattern, almost willing the anxiety attack into existence.
Since I’ve been on Lexapro and had some therapy, I’ve hardly had an anxiety attack at all. I am slowly forgetting that I have/HAD anxiety and starting to think in a more productive and POSITIVE way… I will stay on it for 1 year, come off and see how I go, if the anxiety returns I go back on for 3 years, come off, if it returns I will reassess my situation with my GP and therapist.
Meta, I read your post last night from home, and somehow managed to resist the urge to respond. Resisted for two reasons; first that I was sitting next to my wife and second I was logged in under my other identity. Back to your first point, I am not trolling, although I knew that perception would exist, so I have been concerned by the idea that I was being fake, I wish this was B.S.
Would it kill me? Probably not, but I am concerned by the things that are happening.
I have, in the past, been at the top of a building and looked over the parapet down at the ground, and starred for a period of time. In that period I started to imagine myself at the bottom, and became freaked out because my vision had started to feel like a reality, and that "reality" started thoughts in my head that somehow my visions would become real and I would be over the parapet - almost mystically.
Problem with your thoughts of hanging from buildings is that for you, nothing insane happened. My luck has always involved the word bad, and nothing clean ever worked itself out, most of my injuries have been dirty and incomplete. My luck would be, I'd hang from a building or jump from balcony to balcony and just wind up in a wheelchair sipping from a straw.
The other thought I had is that you scenario involves an audience, it almost always does, you don't strike me as the type that does these kinds of things in a solitary moment; you need the thrill and the exclamations of others calling you a crazy fuck. I on the other hand, hate the limelight, and am much more likely to feel shame of burdening others with this pain, and would wind up becoming a closet cutter.
JAL
My fortune for today:
Misery loves company. Wanna hang out?
Toof unny.
or you can ignore my advice...
Rodger, I want to thank you for your advice, and to let you know I am considering it and will consult my physician[s].
JAL
Thanks everyone for the feedback. There is one person here in particular that has been a tremendous help. and for that I send my best to you and the family.
I am going to log off this thread and will not return under this identity.
I am oot.
JAL
One last thought regarding metamechanic's posts:
Psychologists used to think primal scream therapy was a cure for anger. The theory was that getting angry relieved the stress of being an angry person.
It turned out to have exactly the opposite effect. Getting angry on purpose only makes a person more angry. It doesn't relieve anything. (This has been backed up recently by numerous studies.)
Same is true of depression or anxiety, I'd assume. Reaching rock bottom doesn't cure you of your condition, it only makes it worse.
Yes Farwest1, it's the positive feedback loop... the more anxiety you experience, the better you get at being anxious... the cycle must be broken to start recovery. The meds are helping me forget how to be anxious and worrying about future attacks. Good stuff.
i need a big punching bag... and some gloves......
b
i have a really hard time letting go of how i feel about work once i've left the office.
i need to pack and clean and do laundry, but i just don't feel like doing any of it, i just want to drink and mope about how shitty i feel about the project that i am about to turn into the city...
sorry, now i feel like a jerk for not reading through all this thread...and just starting to type my sorrows away.
gotta treat architecture as a hobby...... it's just a damn job...... we all get depressed about design/hours/etc...... but i think it's a matter of separation really....... some people strive to create wonderfull work while others just want to "fill the void" and say "hey i work in an architecture firm"......
over the past few days i've been trying to figure out life and where i want to be..... but soon to realize that i do alot of things and for me to give my entire life to architecture would be stupid on my part...... but i am looking for an office job just to make ends meet right now.... but i'm still gonna have that border line of letting my emotions run my life over some work that is just "work"
b
Arch school really sets you up for a massive fall... you are filled with so much fun, fanciful, quasi-religous archi bullshit then booted out of the nest into a world where the dollar is king and no one gives a damn about what you know. Sad.
rodgerT! That is no lie! You are a gentleman and a scholar, my friend.
And just think, I thought architecture was going to be the answer to all my problems.
I hate my current job-I am treated like crap by my boss and coworkers, am constanly passed over for work and never given much credit for anything I do...but it looks like I will probably have the same problem in architecture or any other job I pursuit.
I have battled depression all my life and am still fighting it (and losing). I have very few friends, and the ones I do have tend to drop me after they have used me for all I'm worth.
I have a serious lack of self esteem that has prevented me from getting ahead in life-folks tell me I'm smart, I'm attractive, that I should go to architecture school-but I just know I'm going to f*** up, just like everything else I try to do.
Anyway, sorry for hijacking this thread-I am in a really ill mood right now, so please forgive me. 870
870,
Don't use past experience as the basis for future outcomes. Get help. You aren't alone; lots of people feel the same way.
Thanks Staghorn...I just need some reassurance...I am discouraged easily...
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