I know you would put any award you/your company recieved for a project you worked on on your resume, but what about a project that a person didnt work on but still employed there? I could never figure out if that was too much of a stretch, but it could still make sense if you think about it.
what do you think?
so you call attention to a project by highlighting it in your resume, then when you are asked at the interiew what your role was in that amazing project tell interviewer you actually had nothing to do with it.
It may be silly to list an award for a project you never worked on, but this thread does raise in my mind the issue of which projects should and should not make the cut for a resume. Should one list a project where their only involvement was holding the dumb end of a tape measure or some other minor/menial task? Marketing people would say yes - but I would say no.
one problem i see, i worked in a firm and the architect listed everyone in the office at the time the award was given as being part of that particular project, as well as the original project team. that was for an AIA Honor Award. is it right or wrong? i mean i am there because he listed me, so i put that in, now if asked i can explain. i experienced just the opposite too, was there for the design and documentation of the project, but not there for the construction, and when published did not get a credit. so should i call and ask for one?
The firm listing someone is just courteous...and quite different than you putting it on YOUR resume. As stated above, it is quite simple, if you worked on something and contributed you can probably put in on your resume.
The litmus test should be....are you able/willing to talk about the project on your resume and your role in bringing that project to it's built conclusion...if so..put it on there. If not...leave it off.
Imagine if your answer to..'what was your role on this project' was....well my company listed me in their credits for an AIA honor award..so I decided to give myself credit too. I actually didn't even work on it.
this isn't that hard....it is quite easy. Either you did or did not contribute.
...you know what, i must have realized the stupidity of my position over a year ago, i just checked my last resume and i did not even list the project or that it won an award, i did however list the project i was not credited with, but worked on. integrity intact.
Resume dishonesty seems rampant. I've seen senior partners at a national firm take credit for designing buildings seemingly in their first year at the firm even as a junior architect. Bruce Graham and Walter Netsch, and even later SOM partners, famously competed for credit for the Inland Steel Building. Other people claim credit for a building even if they were only a lowly CAD draftsperson.
A friend of mine is responsible for hiring at a large Chicago office. He commonly sees resumes and portfolios that indicate significant project experience and CAD knowledge (elaborate rendering capability, for instance) for a low-level or mid-level candidate. The candidate will speak knowledgeably about the projects or CAD programs, certainly enough to get hired by my friend. But once working in the studio, sometimes it rapidly becomes evident that the new hire has neither proficient knowledge of said rendering software programs or the ability to work independently on design and detailing for building project.
I did a lunch-intervew of one project manager candidate for another VP in my office. VP felt candidate was a solid prospect based on his resume; I thought resume was suspicious. During lunch, candidate was very nervous in conversation and not very knowledgeable. He represented himself as a PM at a large AE firm. But he bolted mid-lunch after 45 minutes, as if his lunch break was over. I called a senior-level friend at that AE firm, asked about candidate, and was told he was a CAD-jockey w/jr college "architectural" degree. I reported this back, but VP hired him. Hire was so disasterous that is was comical - guy lasted three months and created havoc for VP.
As an employer, if you don't carefully check resume and portfolio authenticity, you're going to get potluck.
If you didn't have clear responsibility for a project, or for a distinct component of that project, then you shouldn't take credit for work you didn't do and CAN'T YET DO. You should clear identify and define your role on projects listed on your resume. If you fake your resume, you'll eventually get caught.
one of the reasons I came up for thinking it would be ok would be to list out firm awards (this would be in a more CV situation though) to give an idea of the calibur of firm the person worked for. perhaps like personal awards and firm awards? but I suppose thats why I was asking. I had an idea as to what people were going to say, but still wanted to know anyway. I in no way wanted to fake my resume, and dont do that at all. I was just curious.... ok, and I'll give a deeper explaination... I look at the CV for college professors and it weems they list so much. so I was curious if having a firm award would look good when I was applying to phd programs. kinda one little extra bit of good info.
joe, at best you could explain as you just did. when you list the firm in your resume, something like:
project architect - 1999-2006, greg + josephine llc, the 2006 wyoming limestone council honor-award-winning firm for their st barnabas catholic church and carwash
I actually don't list awards... but I do list citations of my work in books, articles and exhibitions.
The funniest thing is, firms cite past awards won by their current (or even former employees) based on the FORMER firms of those employees all the time... talk about stretching it
4arch - ouch! your comment about "marketing people" made me cringe! I am a marketing director for a landscape arch firm and am constantly trying to work marketing into day to day activities of everyone! we're really not bad people! ;-)
here is my take on this - and this is based on our firm's philospophy of collaboration - we do not include projects or awards on people's resumes, unless they are awards for work that would complement their knowledge/expertise for work they do at the firm. Instead, we provide separate lists of awards, publications and projects, based on a project we are trying to go after. This separation invokes the idea of collaboration because with the size of our office, we'd be listing the same project on everyone's resume.
anyway. that's my two cents, without knowing addtional details. for example, if you are preparing a resume and you are a sole practitioner, then you probably want to include this information. But if you are representing a larger firm, then I would combine awards for projects together.
but, that is just one approach.
and DEFINITELY do not list awards for projects that you did not work on. it's not honest, and ethically incorrect.
Have you folks ever put awards on your resume that you received while working outside the field of architecture, such as for military service, outstanding leadership, pie eating contest, etc?
mkokimoto, as I understand the conventional wisdom rules of resume writing, military decorations may be included next to wherever you put your service info, rank, etc. That's what my dad did, if I remember correctly. Otherwise, include other awards only if relevant.
since we're talking about the ethics of self-promotion, I just wanted to use this opportunity to express my utter disdain and abhorrence for certain unnamed people who come from certain unnamed countries where wealthy students can outsource STUDENT work cheaply and then present said drawings/renderings in their portfolios as their own work, to gain admission and to and fellowship money from elite grad schools.
it is a pain though this whole credit thing. i did cool projects in offices i want to show now i am on my own...but can't for reasons above. we did a proposal for a train station recently but had to partner with my old office in order to meet qualification requirements...which sort of sucked. my partner and i did the design with our own design team but local office also gets credit if we move forward with project...sorta sucks that. cost of being small.
Oct 27, 07 7:35 am ·
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awards listed on resume
I know you would put any award you/your company recieved for a project you worked on on your resume, but what about a project that a person didnt work on but still employed there? I could never figure out if that was too much of a stretch, but it could still make sense if you think about it.
what do you think?
that would be silly.
so you call attention to a project by highlighting it in your resume, then when you are asked at the interiew what your role was in that amazing project tell interviewer you actually had nothing to do with it.
def wouldn't recommend it.
actually, that makes no sense.
i think george costanza tried it once.
what, are you kidding?! no way, jose.
yeah, no way. what would be the point?
maybe if you described the scenario a little better...in a way that would let us know why YOU think it MIGHT make sense?
It may be silly to list an award for a project you never worked on, but this thread does raise in my mind the issue of which projects should and should not make the cut for a resume. Should one list a project where their only involvement was holding the dumb end of a tape measure or some other minor/menial task? Marketing people would say yes - but I would say no.
one problem i see, i worked in a firm and the architect listed everyone in the office at the time the award was given as being part of that particular project, as well as the original project team. that was for an AIA Honor Award. is it right or wrong? i mean i am there because he listed me, so i put that in, now if asked i can explain. i experienced just the opposite too, was there for the design and documentation of the project, but not there for the construction, and when published did not get a credit. so should i call and ask for one?
The firm listing someone is just courteous...and quite different than you putting it on YOUR resume. As stated above, it is quite simple, if you worked on something and contributed you can probably put in on your resume.
The litmus test should be....are you able/willing to talk about the project on your resume and your role in bringing that project to it's built conclusion...if so..put it on there. If not...leave it off.
Imagine if your answer to..'what was your role on this project' was....well my company listed me in their credits for an AIA honor award..so I decided to give myself credit too. I actually didn't even work on it.
this isn't that hard....it is quite easy. Either you did or did not contribute.
to add to dierxap's litmus test:
what is a resume about?: is the awarded project a contributing factor in your work experience in any meaningful way?
good point. it comes off.
...you know what, i must have realized the stupidity of my position over a year ago, i just checked my last resume and i did not even list the project or that it won an award, i did however list the project i was not credited with, but worked on. integrity intact.
Resume dishonesty seems rampant. I've seen senior partners at a national firm take credit for designing buildings seemingly in their first year at the firm even as a junior architect. Bruce Graham and Walter Netsch, and even later SOM partners, famously competed for credit for the Inland Steel Building. Other people claim credit for a building even if they were only a lowly CAD draftsperson.
A friend of mine is responsible for hiring at a large Chicago office. He commonly sees resumes and portfolios that indicate significant project experience and CAD knowledge (elaborate rendering capability, for instance) for a low-level or mid-level candidate. The candidate will speak knowledgeably about the projects or CAD programs, certainly enough to get hired by my friend. But once working in the studio, sometimes it rapidly becomes evident that the new hire has neither proficient knowledge of said rendering software programs or the ability to work independently on design and detailing for building project.
I did a lunch-intervew of one project manager candidate for another VP in my office. VP felt candidate was a solid prospect based on his resume; I thought resume was suspicious. During lunch, candidate was very nervous in conversation and not very knowledgeable. He represented himself as a PM at a large AE firm. But he bolted mid-lunch after 45 minutes, as if his lunch break was over. I called a senior-level friend at that AE firm, asked about candidate, and was told he was a CAD-jockey w/jr college "architectural" degree. I reported this back, but VP hired him. Hire was so disasterous that is was comical - guy lasted three months and created havoc for VP.
As an employer, if you don't carefully check resume and portfolio authenticity, you're going to get potluck.
If you didn't have clear responsibility for a project, or for a distinct component of that project, then you shouldn't take credit for work you didn't do and CAN'T YET DO. You should clear identify and define your role on projects listed on your resume. If you fake your resume, you'll eventually get caught.
one of the reasons I came up for thinking it would be ok would be to list out firm awards (this would be in a more CV situation though) to give an idea of the calibur of firm the person worked for. perhaps like personal awards and firm awards? but I suppose thats why I was asking. I had an idea as to what people were going to say, but still wanted to know anyway. I in no way wanted to fake my resume, and dont do that at all. I was just curious.... ok, and I'll give a deeper explaination... I look at the CV for college professors and it weems they list so much. so I was curious if having a firm award would look good when I was applying to phd programs. kinda one little extra bit of good info.
joe, at best you could explain as you just did. when you list the firm in your resume, something like:
project architect - 1999-2006, greg + josephine llc, the 2006 wyoming limestone council honor-award-winning firm for their st barnabas catholic church and carwash
...or something.
sounds good actually. thanks steven
but you'd probably want/need to do a similar/parallel description of the other places you list...
I actually don't list awards... but I do list citations of my work in books, articles and exhibitions.
The funniest thing is, firms cite past awards won by their current (or even former employees) based on the FORMER firms of those employees all the time... talk about stretching it
yeah urbanist, I've also seen that done several times. and I would agree thats a big stretch.
Some times it has as much merit as, "First Baby of the Year Award"
i would just put "award winning firm." even doing as stephen says they will still ask you about it.
4arch - ouch! your comment about "marketing people" made me cringe! I am a marketing director for a landscape arch firm and am constantly trying to work marketing into day to day activities of everyone! we're really not bad people! ;-)
here is my take on this - and this is based on our firm's philospophy of collaboration - we do not include projects or awards on people's resumes, unless they are awards for work that would complement their knowledge/expertise for work they do at the firm. Instead, we provide separate lists of awards, publications and projects, based on a project we are trying to go after. This separation invokes the idea of collaboration because with the size of our office, we'd be listing the same project on everyone's resume.
anyway. that's my two cents, without knowing addtional details. for example, if you are preparing a resume and you are a sole practitioner, then you probably want to include this information. But if you are representing a larger firm, then I would combine awards for projects together.
but, that is just one approach.
and DEFINITELY do not list awards for projects that you did not work on. it's not honest, and ethically incorrect.
Have you folks ever put awards on your resume that you received while working outside the field of architecture, such as for military service, outstanding leadership, pie eating contest, etc?
how about listing not as much as an award but being selected to participate in some project that never happens?
mkokimoto, as I understand the conventional wisdom rules of resume writing, military decorations may be included next to wherever you put your service info, rank, etc. That's what my dad did, if I remember correctly. Otherwise, include other awards only if relevant.
since we're talking about the ethics of self-promotion, I just wanted to use this opportunity to express my utter disdain and abhorrence for certain unnamed people who come from certain unnamed countries where wealthy students can outsource STUDENT work cheaply and then present said drawings/renderings in their portfolios as their own work, to gain admission and to and fellowship money from elite grad schools.
it is a pain though this whole credit thing. i did cool projects in offices i want to show now i am on my own...but can't for reasons above. we did a proposal for a train station recently but had to partner with my old office in order to meet qualification requirements...which sort of sucked. my partner and i did the design with our own design team but local office also gets credit if we move forward with project...sorta sucks that. cost of being small.
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