Well, its bad for bussiness to export toxins to the states, the consumers won't buy them. But our Chinese consumers, well, our country is overpopulated anyway. We will just use the safer, more expensive stuff on exports, and save money with our own people.
I think alot of us have been to China including me, and I find myself defending it frequently. Alot of Americans forget that 100 years ago we were in the same place, there was lead paint in everything, including toys, the air was toxic from heavy industry pollution, there was no EPA, there were hardly any consumer advocates, there were no unions. My parents played with toys that had lead paint in them and they haven't died of brain cancer. China is going through very similar processes today yet even at the teething stage of industrialization they've already given way more thought to sustainablity than the U.S. ever did in its early days as an industrial nation, and in some cases even today.
Yet despite the fact that the Chinese live in what many westerners see as a third-world, smokey, polluted, leaded hellhole, and they drink like fish and smoke like chimneys, they have the exact same life expectancy as we do: 72. Why? It definitely isn't their healthcare. Well maybe two reasons are that alot of them walk to get places and they don't eat huge amounts of shit like we do.
So am I saying that China's air is clean and its water fresh and we should put leaded paint in toys? Far, far from it. What I am saying is what China is going through is the same thing we went through. Hopefully they can learn from our lesson, and maybe we can stop acting like such raging assholes about how great America is and how the rest of the world is made of fail because they play with toys with lead paint in them, exactly like my parents used to.
the life expectancy is that high probably just because there are so many chinese - any per capita average is skewed. i agree with you that we're not able to consider china in their own context, but we're not criticizing them in their context. we're criticizing them based on what they're trying to be: a global player. there are some egregious conditions there that - in the 21stC global network in which they want to participate - should not be acceptable.
example: when we lose 6 miners, 4 miners, 2 miners, we all remember the search and rescue efforts that ensue and we can probably imagine the compensation that families receive because of the workings of regulation, unions, etc. when china loses 100 miners, there is no compensation, reports are suppressed as much as possible, and relatively few people pay much attention anyway. and it happens almost every day with thousands dead each year.
from a 2005 ny times article: the death toll from coal mine accidents on the mainland rose 20.8 per cent in the first quarter to 1,113, officials announced yesterday.
and for Steven: you have it exactly reversed - the fact that the life expectancy of China at 71 years is significant, is exactly because there are some many people - and yet they still average out to this figure. the per capita average is a true indication of a comparative with the USA and other western countries.
however, your focus on the number of miners is what is skewed. there, it is about a comparison of totals, where clearly the number of miners in china (not per capita) versus the number of miners in the USA and the number of deaths for each country, will always be skewed for a mining workforce as large as China's. see if you can find a 'per capita' of mining deaths for the USA and then for China.
the real question would be how come in the USA, with its sophisticated infrastructure, technology and governmental health and safety, are there still so many mining deaths? the fact that the self-absorption of American TV keeps it all on the screen for so long, is slightly deflated when the same amount of attention is devoted to Paris and OJ.
Steven could you get off your F***ING american high-horse? Talking of global players, here's an instance of what an american company did about 24 years ago: the bhopal gas tragedy
Total people dead to date: 15,000 to 22,000. (Total people dead in the 9/11 tragedy was about 3,000 for comparision)
Im sure you did not even know about this, thanks to CNN and Fox. But before one starts talking about other '3rd world' countries and their policies, look into your past and your backyard.
sameold, sameold, calm down a bit mate. I'm sure Steven knows about bhopal, no need to get upset now. Frankly, the way America acts abroad these days I don't think we have any "moral authority" to be a global player but then again no empire ever has, so why break balls with China?
Sep 22, 07 10:30 pm ·
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Lead paint + China
banning the paint on exports....
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070911/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/china_tainted_products
but not on those that stay in the country????
WTF????
Well, its bad for bussiness to export toxins to the states, the consumers won't buy them. But our Chinese consumers, well, our country is overpopulated anyway. We will just use the safer, more expensive stuff on exports, and save money with our own people.
lead paint closed down alot of playgrounds...wtf...... just dont eat the stuff
b
^ HAHA!! I was thinking the same thing.
LEED doesn't approve of lead
Is buckshot made out of lead? How about musket ammunition? Are those still made of lead, or did we find a safe alternative?
lead roofs are nice
shot for waterfowl is made of steel so the lead don't leach into the waterways.
otherwise it's all lead baby....
I think alot of us have been to China including me, and I find myself defending it frequently. Alot of Americans forget that 100 years ago we were in the same place, there was lead paint in everything, including toys, the air was toxic from heavy industry pollution, there was no EPA, there were hardly any consumer advocates, there were no unions. My parents played with toys that had lead paint in them and they haven't died of brain cancer. China is going through very similar processes today yet even at the teething stage of industrialization they've already given way more thought to sustainablity than the U.S. ever did in its early days as an industrial nation, and in some cases even today.
Yet despite the fact that the Chinese live in what many westerners see as a third-world, smokey, polluted, leaded hellhole, and they drink like fish and smoke like chimneys, they have the exact same life expectancy as we do: 72. Why? It definitely isn't their healthcare. Well maybe two reasons are that alot of them walk to get places and they don't eat huge amounts of shit like we do.
So am I saying that China's air is clean and its water fresh and we should put leaded paint in toys? Far, far from it. What I am saying is what China is going through is the same thing we went through. Hopefully they can learn from our lesson, and maybe we can stop acting like such raging assholes about how great America is and how the rest of the world is made of fail because they play with toys with lead paint in them, exactly like my parents used to.
the life expectancy is that high probably just because there are so many chinese - any per capita average is skewed. i agree with you that we're not able to consider china in their own context, but we're not criticizing them in their context. we're criticizing them based on what they're trying to be: a global player. there are some egregious conditions there that - in the 21stC global network in which they want to participate - should not be acceptable.
example: when we lose 6 miners, 4 miners, 2 miners, we all remember the search and rescue efforts that ensue and we can probably imagine the compensation that families receive because of the workings of regulation, unions, etc. when china loses 100 miners, there is no compensation, reports are suppressed as much as possible, and relatively few people pay much attention anyway. and it happens almost every day with thousands dead each year.
from a 2005 ny times article:
the death toll from coal mine accidents on the mainland rose 20.8 per cent in the first quarter to 1,113, officials announced yesterday.
Unlike our parents, American kids are dumb now, we must protect them from themselves...
Steven
I have heard that you are a global playa'
Steven, I'm aware of that. All I'm saying is America made the same sacrifices to be a global player.
I don't agree with your life expectancy theory either. I saw an awful lot of old people over there.
for all of those of you who have been banging on about 'horrible old China' and its evil empire, maybe the following will be of help:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/21/business/worldbusiness/21cnd-toys.html
and for Steven: you have it exactly reversed - the fact that the life expectancy of China at 71 years is significant, is exactly because there are some many people - and yet they still average out to this figure. the per capita average is a true indication of a comparative with the USA and other western countries.
however, your focus on the number of miners is what is skewed. there, it is about a comparison of totals, where clearly the number of miners in china (not per capita) versus the number of miners in the USA and the number of deaths for each country, will always be skewed for a mining workforce as large as China's. see if you can find a 'per capita' of mining deaths for the USA and then for China.
the real question would be how come in the USA, with its sophisticated infrastructure, technology and governmental health and safety, are there still so many mining deaths? the fact that the self-absorption of American TV keeps it all on the screen for so long, is slightly deflated when the same amount of attention is devoted to Paris and OJ.
every american should travel to a 'developing' country once. and yes, at least the chinese dont have a ms. teen south carolina.
Steven could you get off your F***ING american high-horse? Talking of global players, here's an instance of what an american company did about 24 years ago:
the bhopal gas tragedy
Total people dead to date: 15,000 to 22,000. (Total people dead in the 9/11 tragedy was about 3,000 for comparision)
Im sure you did not even know about this, thanks to CNN and Fox. But before one starts talking about other '3rd world' countries and their policies, look into your past and your backyard.
sameold, sameold, calm down a bit mate. I'm sure Steven knows about bhopal, no need to get upset now. Frankly, the way America acts abroad these days I don't think we have any "moral authority" to be a global player but then again no empire ever has, so why break balls with China?
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