as a child, not having any idea I'd want to be an architect one day, I thought doctors, lawyers, and architects were "on par" in how they were compensated and respected.
The fast-food manager numbers are telling about "worth," and I'm not surprised. Why wouldn't larger corporations (larger than the typical architecture firm, anyway) pay competitively for a high-performing general manager? I know we architects are skilled, but there are other valuable skills out there, like running a unit of a complex business and keeping it profitable.
my first job out of undergrad (after doing a summer internship there the year before) they paid me $10/hr. i asked for $15 and they refused. a couple months later i got a $2 raise.
My first job out of college in '99, the offer was $500 lower than the low end of what I asked for. I thought that the bosses were either a bit stingy or just making an annoying little show of power. I took it, though, because I had no other offers on the table. Fortunately, they bumped me up a bit at my scheduled two month preliminary review so I was in my original range.
Are lots of places making CAD or BIM tests part of the hiring process? I haven't had to take one but have heard people talking about them recently and wonder if I should be concerned.
i passed up a 50g a year job in the exhibit industry.... not sure if that was a good idea....but they were trying to get me in during their rush months (the 4 months before the autoshow) and trying to work me 60-80 hours a week on a salary...... i skipped that idea...... i always ask for hourly rate plus OT......... i have tooo much going on in my life to work crazy hours if i'm not getting paid for that time....
sloring,
i spoke to my boss recently... got very good responses to the work i have done so far, had a very positive review. I asked for a bit over 20%, and will likely get close to what i asked for though i have yet to hear concrete confirmation. The important thing i learned through the course of the conversation was to remember that when a firm hires you straight out of school they are taking a chance on a person with potential, who has yet to realize any of it. Through no fault of our own as we havent been able to work as intensely as will be expected.
once we have worked a year and proven our value, i think its important to stress that the discussion be looked at more as a renegotiation of salary... sort of like your interviewing for the job again, this time however, your boss knows what you can do and what your really worth to them. Dont worry so much about a large jump in salary, remember that you are no longer as much a risk, and you may have even shown more potential than your boss expected, and so you can leverage that into a more fair salary. dont threaten or get inflammatory... most bosses dont just give raises for the hell of it... you have to prove you are really worth the investment. tell them you want more responsibility, tell them your ready for it, and ask them to test you... passion really comes through in face to face meetings... at least i felt like it did in mine.
hope it goes well.
According to the department of labor, the average architect reports earning only 4% less than the average doctor, or 3.5% less than teh average lawyer.
So I'd really like to hear from the individuals who are setting the curve.
Was making crap. I had a job offer for 50% more (which was slightly above average), and another one for 30% more (this would bring me up to reasonable). I told my boss I really liked working there, but I really couldnt' afofrd teh rent in LA combined with my student loans on what I was making and would in the not to distant future have to accept one of these offers... though as I recall they had told me when they hired me that it was sort of a trial and we'd re-negotiate in 90 days... and we never did even though I asked. I was underpaid for what I was doing and what my abilities were and I had worked there long enough that they knew it. So when I told them about my job offers (I was head hunted I wasn't looking for a job) they said they couldn't do the %50 but they really wanted me to stay and would match the 30%.
I was very tactful and complimentary, not quite ass kissing, in the discussion, I wasn't trying to play it like they were screwing me even if they were.
… when a firm hires you straight out of school they are taking a chance on a person with potential, who has yet to realize any of it. Through no fault of our own as we haven’t been able to work as intensely as will be expected. Once we have worked a year and proven our value, I think its important to stress that the discussion be looked at more as a renegotiation of salary... sort of like your interviewing for the job again, this time however, your boss knows what you can do and what your really worth to them.
That is the approach that we take when we hire. Pretty much we start at scale: - our own weighted average off of the AIA salary pole which we publish in our employee handbook that is given to you on your first day.
We hire everyone on a trial basis - six months. If things are going well – read: that you are earning your keep, we look at your compensation again and adjust. If you are doing an incredible job we have no problem giving a 10-15% or more raise.
However, if you are not getting a bump at that time it means that we are paying you more than you are worth to our firm. We will meet and talk about your strengths and weaknesses and what you can do to improve. At the end of one year we assess again. If you are still marginal you will pretty much be at scale.
Due to different levels of contribution and skill set, there can be people working side by side with the same amount of “experience” but one could be making 20%-25% or more than the other
dsc_arch makes an important point that seems lost on a lot of architects - i.e. that architectural talent and labor are not commodities. we're not buying a bushel of wheat or corn here, where pretty much every kernal or ear is pretty much the same.
firms that are paying attention and making an effort to treat their employees fairly take this into consideration - that means two interns with similar amounts of work experience are not going to be paid the same.
I recognize not all firms pay attention to this - go find one that does - but recognize that any firm is going to have a hard time assessing your "true worth" until they have some experience with you in their office - this is not a precise science, but an exercise that involves judgement and a high level of honest interaction between employee and employer.
i'm just saying, "value" and "worth" are a function of how many things you can do well - it's not just about being able to do a few things and having a decent attitude
ask for what you're worth!
as a child, not having any idea I'd want to be an architect one day, I thought doctors, lawyers, and architects were "on par" in how they were compensated and respected.
I couldn't have been more wrong.
oh well, at least my mom thinks I'm "a star".
hmmm...I wonder how much the architect makes that designs the in-n-outs?
shit! i just realized there probably aren't in-n-outs in philly...
The fast-food manager numbers are telling about "worth," and I'm not surprised. Why wouldn't larger corporations (larger than the typical architecture firm, anyway) pay competitively for a high-performing general manager? I know we architects are skilled, but there are other valuable skills out there, like running a unit of a complex business and keeping it profitable.
lletdownl, i'm in a similar situation, did you ever find a solution?
my first job out of undergrad (after doing a summer internship there the year before) they paid me $10/hr. i asked for $15 and they refused. a couple months later i got a $2 raise.
My first job out of college in '99, the offer was $500 lower than the low end of what I asked for. I thought that the bosses were either a bit stingy or just making an annoying little show of power. I took it, though, because I had no other offers on the table. Fortunately, they bumped me up a bit at my scheduled two month preliminary review so I was in my original range.
Are lots of places making CAD or BIM tests part of the hiring process? I haven't had to take one but have heard people talking about them recently and wonder if I should be concerned.
i passed up a 50g a year job in the exhibit industry.... not sure if that was a good idea....but they were trying to get me in during their rush months (the 4 months before the autoshow) and trying to work me 60-80 hours a week on a salary...... i skipped that idea...... i always ask for hourly rate plus OT......... i have tooo much going on in my life to work crazy hours if i'm not getting paid for that time....
b
fuck
i hate it when i tell people that i'm going to school for architecture and they say, "wow, you'll be rich pretty soon."
they have no idea...
sloring,
i spoke to my boss recently... got very good responses to the work i have done so far, had a very positive review. I asked for a bit over 20%, and will likely get close to what i asked for though i have yet to hear concrete confirmation. The important thing i learned through the course of the conversation was to remember that when a firm hires you straight out of school they are taking a chance on a person with potential, who has yet to realize any of it. Through no fault of our own as we havent been able to work as intensely as will be expected.
once we have worked a year and proven our value, i think its important to stress that the discussion be looked at more as a renegotiation of salary... sort of like your interviewing for the job again, this time however, your boss knows what you can do and what your really worth to them. Dont worry so much about a large jump in salary, remember that you are no longer as much a risk, and you may have even shown more potential than your boss expected, and so you can leverage that into a more fair salary. dont threaten or get inflammatory... most bosses dont just give raises for the hell of it... you have to prove you are really worth the investment. tell them you want more responsibility, tell them your ready for it, and ask them to test you... passion really comes through in face to face meetings... at least i felt like it did in mine.
hope it goes well.
According to the department of labor, the average architect reports earning only 4% less than the average doctor, or 3.5% less than teh average lawyer.
So I'd really like to hear from the individuals who are setting the curve.
maybe a lawyer/doctor on an unpaid intership
Does anyone know where I can find yearly COLA increases based on cities?
lletdownl
I had a similar situation.
Was making crap. I had a job offer for 50% more (which was slightly above average), and another one for 30% more (this would bring me up to reasonable). I told my boss I really liked working there, but I really couldnt' afofrd teh rent in LA combined with my student loans on what I was making and would in the not to distant future have to accept one of these offers... though as I recall they had told me when they hired me that it was sort of a trial and we'd re-negotiate in 90 days... and we never did even though I asked. I was underpaid for what I was doing and what my abilities were and I had worked there long enough that they knew it. So when I told them about my job offers (I was head hunted I wasn't looking for a job) they said they couldn't do the %50 but they really wanted me to stay and would match the 30%.
I was very tactful and complimentary, not quite ass kissing, in the discussion, I wasn't trying to play it like they were screwing me even if they were.
beatbox - this may be what you need - Bureau of Labor Statistics - CPI-U
Similar to iletdown1 comments toward:
… when a firm hires you straight out of school they are taking a chance on a person with potential, who has yet to realize any of it. Through no fault of our own as we haven’t been able to work as intensely as will be expected. Once we have worked a year and proven our value, I think its important to stress that the discussion be looked at more as a renegotiation of salary... sort of like your interviewing for the job again, this time however, your boss knows what you can do and what your really worth to them.
That is the approach that we take when we hire. Pretty much we start at scale: - our own weighted average off of the AIA salary pole which we publish in our employee handbook that is given to you on your first day.
We hire everyone on a trial basis - six months. If things are going well – read: that you are earning your keep, we look at your compensation again and adjust. If you are doing an incredible job we have no problem giving a 10-15% or more raise.
However, if you are not getting a bump at that time it means that we are paying you more than you are worth to our firm. We will meet and talk about your strengths and weaknesses and what you can do to improve. At the end of one year we assess again. If you are still marginal you will pretty much be at scale.
Due to different levels of contribution and skill set, there can be people working side by side with the same amount of “experience” but one could be making 20%-25% or more than the other
dsc_arch makes an important point that seems lost on a lot of architects - i.e. that architectural talent and labor are not commodities. we're not buying a bushel of wheat or corn here, where pretty much every kernal or ear is pretty much the same.
firms that are paying attention and making an effort to treat their employees fairly take this into consideration - that means two interns with similar amounts of work experience are not going to be paid the same.
I recognize not all firms pay attention to this - go find one that does - but recognize that any firm is going to have a hard time assessing your "true worth" until they have some experience with you in their office - this is not a precise science, but an exercise that involves judgement and a high level of honest interaction between employee and employer.
knowing of what u worth.
& asking for how much for salary
is two different thing.
& normally u do not ask for what u worth,
u just demand a payment to get the shit done.
at our firm, "u worth 0" with those communication skills
is ok, no one is asking to work at your firm, no need to waste time on unnecessary assessment on the internet.
besides, good atittude is often more important to survive in the office (especially in the construction site).
i'm just saying, "value" and "worth" are a function of how many things you can do well - it's not just about being able to do a few things and having a decent attitude
don't be naive, ur value/worth in the market are in accordance with what other's cannot do and not how well u can do.
u think u worth anything if ur damn good at 3dmax/autocad in china??
a decent altitude lead to better networking which is often more valuable than do well and have no friends in the field.
whatever gets you through the night!
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