That can't be your job, SBD1, that's moy job. Wait, I'm probably in a senior position, I get to plot and copy as well.

hey sbd, will you go run down and get a cup of coffee for me? thanks, bud.

weeeeeeeeeeeeee the real world! ugh, for real. if they want robots to do work then make robots. it's really silly to make people with two degrees do this type of thing.

I take it you work at firms that hire "interns" to do work that CAD techs should be doing.

seriously, this is my 5th firm! this is getting a bit old.

what should you be doing?

I should mention, there is hope. I did a survey of current conditions earlier this week (all by myself) of the department of education. I get the impression from the studio coordinator that I'm not done with this project and she kind of commented "so when when will you be done with these two projects, I want you starting feasibility studies". I think I'd be the only one working on this project, ergo it be kind of my project. I'm really hoping this to be true, otherwise I will lose it.

i SHOULD be getting you coffee vado.

ugh - i feel you. my last firm decided to consolidate "job titles" for everyone - i ended up with the lovely title of "construction document specialist" - if that doesn't read cad monkey, i don't know what does.

i really think they should have just labelled us "print room help." i think i knew the people down there better than the people i sat by.

What's an Xref? I am so tired of taking the company jet to useless meetings. And the champagne is crap!

bitch, bitch, bitch

SBD, aren't you still doing coop?

I happily do all tasks, from changing ink cartridges, to meeting solo with clients, to sketching on a stem wall to solve a problem on site. But that's because I eventually want to work directly for the clients (read as 'my own firm') and I never want to depend on an employee the way my current employer depends on me.

Why not hire your own 16 year old and sub the work out for 1/3-1/2 your wage, then get another job for your new found free time?

Hiring a college grad to run prints or do simple CAD text editing is a devaluation of our architectural education. Techincal colleges can graduate people for tasks like that.

Good managers should put interns into roles where they can learn and grow with the profession on their chosen career path. They'll become more productive and happy employees and lead to less employee turnover, which is quite costly.

Unfortunately the low entry level wages of this profession have a defacto way of making it acceptable to use college grads as a labor pool for jobs they don't want. Over supply of labor has made it normal practice, as well contribuiting to the low wages. Overall it's just a bad policy and doesn't help this profession.

At a past employer this simple industry fact was the basis for a large rearrangement on hiring policies and inclusion of IDP in the workplace. Hiring of new interns was very limited but they never got "pigeon holed" into menial tasks. They also didn't pack up and leave every year or two for a different firm. Pay scales weren't the highest in town, but the interns were happy and enjoying their career. That paid off in dividends.

its okay sbd. i made a fresh pot to wash down the brownies that were brought in today.

i don't know...i've had some youngsters (18-19 years olds) in some of the offices that i've worked in and, frankly, they didn't have the aptitude to import dwgs. in fact, i've seen them struggle with taking out the trash or even using tape measures when helping with field work...and that's when they're not falling asleep or trying sneak in text messages to their friends. maybe every teenager isn't that hapless...but i'm skeptical these days

good grief, i'm beginning to sound old

I'm a good and smart worker (however when I become despondent with my work, admitedly I also become less productive). I can do way more than many of the senior and junior designers there as far as technology, graphic abilities, and communication skills go, perhaps I keep type casting myself.

lb, yes, I'm still on co-op, but this is my 3rd one (including co-ops, 6th internship over 5 firms, 5 cities, and 2 countries, 2 schools, and almost 2 degrees). It's frustrating cause they could be getting hight quality work from an underpaid employee. It's like I'm giving it away for free (just like my HS prom date).

Wait, at your prom, did you give it away or did your date?

If this was a long-term gig, SBD, I'd recommend a chat with the higher ups to show them that you are not only motivated but skilled enough to handle more challenging work.

A noble sentiment which, unfortunately, tends to ignore the reality of modern day architectural practice. I'm not at all sure many design firms really have the aptitude, or the ability, to do as you suggest.

Here's the reality as I see it. Schools today really don't train graduating architects to independently prepare construction drawings or even know how buildings go together. The schools simply don't see that as their role. There are some few graduates who have rudimentary skills along these lines, but the vast majority don't. Please don't be insulted by this comment -- I'm speaking in a fairly global sense here and I base my opinion on a tremendous amount of resume reading and interviewing.

Sure, a firm can hire tech school grads to fill up a "drafting department" but this approach has been losing favor for many, many years. "Drafting departments" don't really work for us as a profession because they don't help us develop the technical skills needed by future generations of architects.

For that reason, most design firms don't have much choice but to devote the early years of a recent graduate's career to what we so lovingly call "cad monkey" work -- the idea being that a certain amount of technical skill and knowledge will be transferred through that process. I'm not going to defend this practice. But, I do understand how it comes to pass.

My advice to you is to either a) find a firm that can see what you have to offer beyond picking up redlines; or b) find a way to demonstrate to your current firm that you are able and willing to do more than basic drafting. I am stunned by the number of recent graduates who don't have that ability or, if they do, aren't willing to exert themselves or use any initiative.

the truth is the tech school grad don't know how to put a building together or even lay out a page where it looks good.

quizzical - you have a good point, and I have noticed that myself. I'm the first one to argue that college doesn't do enough to train students for the "real world" of architecture. Colleges churn out hundreds of grads thinking they'll be the "stararchitect" which is less than 1% of us. That's a problem for a different discussion.

In practice I conceed that everyone needs to put some time in doing CD's, which these days means CAD. And yes, even the tech school grad will also need some basic training on construction techniques. No matter what the position, skill comes with experience.

However, the point is still clear, taking an intern architect and never exposing them to the wider aspect of the profession doesn't develop the architects for the future generation either.

IDP was supposed to be this great apprenticeship program, however most firms don't embrace it. I don't remember the exact hours but CD's was maybe 40% of the hours - tops. The registration boards know that to become an architect you need a broad experience. For the future of this profession the firms need to look at the bigger picture.

i agree with aquapura. Doing cds sucks and most of the time is spent correcting type errors and being a robot. But if I never had those 6 months of office hell I honestly still wouldn't have any idea how buildings go together. It takes actually drawing those things to understand it, there's no getting around it..study the books all you want.. you need to do it yourself.

It's super super important to go through that, I'd say that that was the turning point between me being a dumb architecture kid and someone who actually has the slightest about what they're talking about.

i.e. why programs like university of cincinnati, which have mandatory co-ops, are really helpful in the long run. I hear a lot of theory from architecture kids who clearly have no idea what a building really is or how one is made. I hate to be practical but if you have no idea if your building could have a chance of standing up or how it might do that I'd say you're not an architect.. (which may be fine for some of you papers out there..)

i will comment much when i get back from my trip

no @ 16 i was finally allowed to emerge from the copy room (diazzo with its heavy scent of ammonia). The task to trace, by hand the details that had been drawn before for what purpose - i still don't know. But it made me stronger (alas after years of being bitter)

SBDI> usually that means u not getting along with others in the company.

as a supplement to my earlier post, consider your own behavior during the "cad monkey" phase.

we have some interns in our firm who stay in their workstation all day with their headphones on, totally oblivious to what's happening in the studio - some of these folks are reasonably productive, others seem to spend much of the day surfing, IM'ing, downloading music and visiting archinect. their boredom is obvious.

we have another group who pay attention to studio life, who express interest in what's going on, who volunteer to do stuff, who eagerly help out other teams chasing deadlines, who ask questions and visit construction sites and seek out knowledge.

which group do you think draws the attention of senior staff when an interesting assignment comes up?

I agree that firms have an obligation to teach and provide all employees with interesting, challenging work. but, while it's a cliché, remember the old saw "you can lead a horse to water..."

i don't think firms have any obligation to provide their employess with interesting,challenging work.

now vado ... you're just being provocative !

whattothink- yeah, it's superimportant to go through six months of it.... but some people get stuck in it for YEARS. I would say that a lot of people do, and that's probably who's complaining about it here, not people who only have to do it for six months.

quizzical hit it on the head.

The reality here is that 90% of the people "stuck in CAD money jobs" or can "only find shitty jobs" are there by their own doing; either your work sucks/you suck, you are lazy, or you don't take architecture that seriously.

Heres the rubric I use:
If you really feel you are getting "screwed", fucking quit.
If "there are no good jobs here", move to a real city, revamp that turd of a portfolio you've been throwing around and don't forget to brush your teech before interviews.
If you "don't get paid enough", either waitch your spending or go to b school.

I don't mean to get all Coach Man McDad here, but c'mon, "hard work" is not a difficult concept to grasp unless you think that there is a magical golden road paved with chocolate and money waiting for you when you graduate from arch. school. If you want good work, you have to bust ass for it. In that respect, architecture is just like any other "job", except architecture is awesome.

Now, get back to work.

-andrew

woops, teech = teeth/teef

COMPLETLY agree with rabbits and quizzical.

Quizzical says it right, Rabbits is somewhat off the mark in this specific case.

Having met MR SBD (and had the fucker sleeping on my sofa for a week, bless his heart) I expect he could quite easily fall into the work patterns that Quizzical describes but he is clearly NOT the kind of idle bastard Rabbits is talking about.

Also, SBD is genuinely getting shafted for money. The poor bugger's just moved to one of the most expensive cities in the world & is barely getting a living wage! Pity the soul on that count.

However, the fact that I see so many posts on Archinect from SBD1, SBD2 & Superbeatledud, many posted during working hours.... switch off that 'net connection, m'boy & (when not specifically doing a boring-arse window schedule) get away from your desk & meet & shmooze the rest of your office. Hell, if you're lucky you may even accidentally talk your way into running a shit scary onsite project all on your own (as I did)... it's hell, but it's what we signed up for, eh.

Heck, 16..... why not at least a 20 yr. old who is interested? I am begging for experience! At this point I just feel like a wanna-be. What is going to happen when someone else ,like me, is getting nothing but the shaft..... Honestly, probably nothing.

I truly don't care about having to get coffee. As long as the people I work with take me seriously, and don't think they can get a donut anytime they feel like it. Otherwise, the next time you see that coffee, it will be in your lap.

Forget the money....... Yes, we all need it, even me. But I legitimately enjoy this business. I want to get immersed. Everyone tells me I'll be disappointed once I'm in it. I say "BULLSHIT''! Come on! Give me something!!!

All I want is someone that will let me learn. I'm more than willing to be taught.

I'll sign-up for anything...

I'm trying desperately hard to get on this project that currently has no one working on it. Our studio manager eluded to the fact that I'd be the only one doing it (at least initially) so that's really exciting. Sadly I keep getting pulled into "can you convert my documents" "can you change my page numbers" "can you make a quick sketchup model for me to sketch over" and it's tough for me to say "I have an important project to do, and can't be bothered doing your busy work you don't want to bother with". On a side note, who are these people that aren't using object snap when doing CAD?! I take these plans into sketchup to extrude for them, and there are holes EVERYWHERE! I even went to help a team leader with an AutoCAD question and noticed they didn't have object snap on the whole time they were drawing...no wonder your drawing is full of holes! I waste most of my day fixing their drawings to even import into anything (i.e. sketchup or illustrator). By the time I get done, I have l like an hour to work on my REAL project.

And for the record, I'm using my own computer at work since our office doesn't have software like SketchUp or Acrobat Pro or InDesign, so I bring in my macbook so they can mooch off of my programs. As a result all my stupid little programs and messengers and alerts are running all around me, and I get easily distracted (wahooo! widget time!)