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W2D - I lived in a US suburb when I was a way (denver, Co). Too young for it to glaze my perception. However most of my adult life has been visiting this experience, and I've always found it removed and compartmentalised. Versus ofcourse travelling to more urban centres like nyc, boston/cambridge even south beach you appreciate much of what Suburban nation as their unqualified "good"

Jul 31, 07 6:19 pm  · 
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I'm getting depressed about transportation, guys. Even on treehugger, which projects great images like those above to a wider audience and consequently attracts people already interested in green ideals, when someone mentions that a person might not NEED to use a vehicle as much as they do, that there are better options, it's met with blatant selfishness, cheapness, laziness, and flat-out excuses. Some of the excuses include not riding the bus because people smoke at the bus stop, and that alternative formed of transportation "lack dignity." I'm sorry, but even Jesus Christ's dignity isn't so important that he can't hoof it. And you're probably breathing as many toxins trapped in your car as you are exposed to at the bus stop. Some of the excuses (lack of affordable housing within striking distance of work) are real, they are problems, but many of them are social constructs that are getting in the way of reality. And it's pissing me off.


What to Do- on your beef vs. cars study, I've been reading a lot of those lately that claim that going vegan is better than giving up your gas-guzzler for a prius. Aside from the flaw you pointed out (which is MAJOR), the other one that gets me is how the Prius is suddenly the standard for environmentally friendly transportation. Huh? When did that happen? Walking, biking, bussing, motorbike, and two-seater cars are ALL more effecient than the Prius, and yet it's held up as the ultimate standard of clean transport. It strikes me as incredibly narrow-minded.

Sorry I'm such a grouch today, guys.

Jul 31, 07 6:30 pm  · 
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rationalist, i'm with you about the whole Prius thing. I think it is a measure to retain global consumers desire for the "new" and semblence of environmental responsibility.

I was flipping through a copy a British periodical called CAR - about well, cars. They tested a list of SUV's that reported better gas mileage than hybrid cars. The list wasn't exhaustive at all but interesting nonetheless. I felt the importance of that article was due to the fact that they felt necessary not just to swallow the "green" but actually test it using the resources they had.

Oh the conclusion, that hybrids were better in the long run, particularly for urban driving because of the acceleration and maintenance of EPA during the life of the vehicle

Jul 31, 07 7:14 pm  · 
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hmmm, that sounds like LEED tried to do something good with the small homes credit/penalty, and suffered the backlash that occurs when you ask someone to do something substantial. I bet it would've been better without the changes. My position is that fine, go ahead and build your 5-bed, 3.5-bath, 3500 sq. ft. behemoth, but don't expect anyone to believe it's a sustainable building unless you're stuffing a very large family in there.

Jul 31, 07 7:46 pm  · 
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WonderK

I love that picture! Thanks architechno!

It's official. I'm going carless on Friday afternoon. I'm trading in my seatbelt for one of these:



I intend for my bike to be my primary form of transportation; Metro, secondary; and the scooter for when I want to visit my friends on the West Side, which is significantly harder to get to by both bike and Metro.

Jul 31, 07 8:51 pm  · 
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treekiller

r- great summary of credits & offsets.

cris- hope a folding bike means you ride it more.

over at the office, I'm compiling a list of sustainable design rating systems from around the world. I'll post them here when I get a chance - but I'd appreciate help especially with the names and agencies of the european sorts.

Jul 31, 07 10:00 pm  · 
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KEG

man...I missed a lot today and don't have time to catch up all the way but....

techno- I'm with rationalist in that it just seems that, in general, consciousness of both man and nature is higher on islands. Though you import a lot- I'm sure your society is more thoughtful in what they import- but maybe that's just my fantasy of Island life. Even though your experience here has been limited, I'm really interested in your perspective from the outside. To be fair, my disdain towards the 'burbs comes from 15 of my most formative years stuck there. I guess there must be something appealing to that lifestyle as millions of people embark on it. I just look at people who live in a "real" city, or the mountains, or an island, or the countryside (something other than suburban sprawl) and wonder why anyone would live in suburbia. Then again, if I had a family (children) I might have a totally different perspective.

rationalist- I think getting a prius is like picking the president- usually it comes down to the lessor of all evils. Every excuse you mentioned is something we've all said. That's why I think public transportation is one instance where it's important for government intervention. I am selfish, cheap, and lazy and if it is going to take me an hour to figure out how to travel for 2 hours by public transportation to get 5 miles, I'm just going to drive. On the other hand, if I could walk 15min to a metro stop and get to my destination in a reasonable amount of time, I would do it- heck, I'd prefer it. The lack of this sort of infrastructure is a huge reason I chose to leave LA for grad school- let's see how I feel after my first winter of walking in Philly.

As far as the beef- yes, being vegan is great for a million and one reasons, no matter the individuals beliefs on eating meat. It's really difficult- there are so many things made from animals or animal byproducts that we don't think about, I am transitioning from being a pesco-vegetarian to a lacto-vegetarian and have cut out everything but shrimp- which, is one of the worst environmental offenders. I get down on myself but I have to look at it like my effort must of made some tiny difference, right? I haven't knowingly eaten any meat (red meat, poultry, etc) in a year and a half and I try to buy vegan products whenever possible too- but I'm not perfect. Who knows how long I'll keep it up, but for right now- it's the little difference I make.

btw, YAY DUBK- that's a really cute helmet!

Aug 1, 07 12:36 am  · 
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treekiller

my justification for driving 33 block each way to the office... parking is free, so the cost of gas is less then the cost of a bus ride, plus I get the freedom to do crap after work without being limited to stuff along the bus.

yeah these are selfish reasons, but I'm not adding to congestion (no traffic jams on my route). I walked/bussed for most of the past two years...

Aug 1, 07 10:09 am  · 
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The Daily Show

looks back at Live Earth...

Aug 1, 07 11:26 am  · 
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KEG

Q- you beat me to it! I just came on to post that as it had me dying with laughfter last night. That blonde chick was frighteningly dumb.

"12 hours
20 tones of trash
2000 gallons of fuel
42,000 plastic bottles of water later,
It was clear I helped heal earth...


What's next? The Coney Island hot dog eating contest to raise awareness for Darfur."

Aug 1, 07 11:46 am  · 
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treekiller

the LAtimes discusses the health hazards of laser printers- now you know why LEED certification requires separately ventilated rooms for printers & copiers.

Aug 1, 07 2:44 pm  · 
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KEG

I was just reading this TK..."Indoor levels reached as high as 625,986 particles per square inch, compared with 178,619 particles per square inch outside the building." Frightening considering I spent WAYYYY more time in my office than I do outside...

Aug 1, 07 2:48 pm  · 
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wow. My office just bought our first laser printer last friday.

Aug 1, 07 2:59 pm  · 
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rationalist; I love watching WEEDS on Showtime for various reasons. One of which is that I find it a brilliant criticism on surburban living. As the theme song says, "little boxes, little boxes."

Anyway...we have suburbs in the islands too - the larger the island the greater chance unfortunately to buck up into one. But one aren't so bad particularly because the developments are usually small - about 5 to 10 acres versus the hundreds of acres i was milled through whilst in the US. As well much of the older laws regarding domesticity makes the notion of the suburbs difficult to implement - thank goodness.

Aug 1, 07 5:58 pm  · 
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coedname-X

go green...!!!

Aug 4, 07 12:52 am  · 
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KEG

have you guys heard of blackle?

thoughts?

Aug 7, 07 11:38 pm  · 
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laurilan

ooookay, i'm going to try this whole posting a picture thing again. for some reason it doesn't like me. but maybe this time it will.



Aug 8, 07 8:15 am  · 
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laurilan

arrrrgh. i give up.

check out my new shopping bag!

maybe this will work.

Aug 8, 07 8:16 am  · 
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laurilan

okay, i mentioned it before, but i thought since i finally finished it, i'd post my little recycling project for you guys to see. it's a bag made out of plastic bags! i knitted it. i think i used up about 20-30 bags making it.

and it's pretty sturdy and stretchy. i've been pretty happy with it overall.

and a note on the "global warming is not a crisis" - i listened to this and i think the thing that hit me the most was michael crichton talking about doing away with the private jet. did anyone else listen to this?

Aug 8, 07 8:22 am  · 
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mightylittle™

W2D - funny you should've posted about blackle.

i think it had been posted here on GTC some time ago, and I was just forwarded this from the googleblog which basically refutes the idea that going black will save energy. i was on my way here to mention it!

greenwashing on someone's part? not sure, as i didn't dive too deeply yet into the stats page.

Aug 9, 07 5:44 pm  · 
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I had posted about blackle a few pages ago, and concluded that while it was a fine idea, the lack of the all-inclusive google features package (maps, images, gmail, etc.) which I use just as much as regular google, keeps it from being something easy enough that lots of people could/would use it. As for the energy use, yeah, lots of people are now saying that it really only works that way for CRT monitors. So it was a good idea that hasn't been fully developed, and by the time it could be, it would be nearly obsolete. So all that leaves Blackle dead in the water, really.

Aug 9, 07 5:56 pm  · 
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mightylittle™

R.I.P. Blackle : We Hardly Knew Ya'

Aug 9, 07 6:15 pm  · 
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green cars

<- a worthwhile link. Fuel is measured in uk gallons, and only includes cars made in 2007

Aug 9, 07 6:17 pm  · 
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as green as you can be:

a vegan nudist that grows their own and lives in a stone or hay house

Aug 9, 07 8:08 pm  · 
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WonderK

Hi GTC!

I've been gone for a while so I haven't had the chance to keep bringing up green issues, or find them, for that matter. I thought I would let you all know that the "great urban car-less in LA" experiment has started though, so we will see how it goes for me.

Also I was wondering if anyone has any opinions or experiences with parking scooters on sidewalks. I am trying to figure out if it will work as I was going to lock it up just like a bike, and I found this in the California Vehicle Code earlier today:

"The operator of a motorized scooter shall not do any of the
following:....
(i) Leave a motorized scooter lying on its side on any sidewalk,
or park a motorized scooter on a sidewalk in any other position, so
that there is not an adequate path for pedestrian traffic."

Which leads me to believe that it's OK.....

I know I've asked this before but I can't remember where or when.

Aug 14, 07 4:48 pm  · 
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not sure if anyone has seen the the site for Design for Sustainability

Aug 14, 07 6:47 pm  · 
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treekiller

WK get the super heavy motorcycle/bike kryptonite bike chain. at home, try to mount an eyebolt to the sidewalk to keep crooks from picking up your babe and cutting the lock at their convenience. (use a hilti epoxy to fasten the eye down).

The critical phrase is 'adequate path for pedestrian traffic.' make sure to leave one and you'll be fine...




So after several years of depravity, my wife and I have broken down and gotten cable tv installed. Now we've really expanded our carbon footprint!

Aug 14, 07 9:23 pm  · 
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Climate Profiteering
Aug 16, 07 12:56 pm  · 
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WonderK

I would like to take a moment to pimp this bag.....

I bought the one on the left, which is a nylon bag the size of a plastic grocery bag, and it folds up to a size smaller than a wallet in its own pouch. It's light and strong and fits comfortably in my pocket and I take it everywhere. I think I've probably saved about 10 plastic bags in the last week alone by using this bag instead. It's so easy....if you ever see one, I think it only cost me $10, I highly recommend it.



Aug 17, 07 3:23 pm  · 
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So today we had to clean the office (see here)

I was a little saddened when we had to discard nearly 5 boxes of once used paper - we usually write/sketch on the blank side. But we had to bite our tongue and play ball.

Also I collect an entire box of blank paper that was rejected by the copiers either because of the thickness or sheen.

Aug 17, 07 11:18 pm  · 
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liberty bell

DubK, which bag? I see three in the link.

This thread seemed the appropriate place to post what was the best part of my recent drive to Chicago and is no doubt one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen. I do believe it's a wind turbine blade:



This was actually one of three I saw, each on a separate truck bed. For one, it's enormous - I mean stunningly enormous. Second, it's incredibly graceful and *fluid* - I mean it looks like a whale or a dolphin, and it looks exactly, specifically, beautifully designed to function at maximum power and efficiency.

I was not only entranced, but nearly obsessed, with this thing - I couldn't stop looking at it. It's sublime.

And later, when I looked at the amorphous NURBs-ey shape of a proposed nature center column, well, it looked completely clunky and contrived.

I'm going to post this exact thing on Thread Central, so don't be confused if you see it twice. I imagine I may post this picture a lot in the coming months.

Aug 19, 07 11:08 pm  · 
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They certainly are beautiful, lb.




I came here for a rant, that hopefully you guys will understand. As you know, I bike to work every day. I store my bike in a closet inside the office, so when I come out of the building at the end of the day I'm wearing my helmet and pushing my bike. Well today, I exit the office past the usual crowd of smokers, and this total bitch from another suite (verified from other incidents witnessed) says to another girl out there in a catty voice, "Hey look, it's your roomie. Do you want to carpool?!" and laughs uproariously. She raised her voice as she asked the last question so I thought it might have been directed at me, but wasn't sure at the time. But I thought about it on the ride home, and just couldn't work out a way to view this that would indicate that they were not laughing at me for riding to work.

So I'm sorry, I just can't work out what's funny. Is the fact that I'm getting exercise funny? Is doing my part to alleviate traffic congestion funny? Or is it the reduction in demand for gas contributing to the low cost of gas in this country that's so hilarious? I would think that any reasonable person would be HAPPY about these things, except perhaps if they were so shallow as to laugh at the fact that I happen to need the exercise. This is just one of the most blatantly unecessarily mean things I've ever experienced- I've literally never said a word to this girl, or her to me. There should be no beef here. At least most of the time when someone's a jerk, I've done something, no matter how small, to irk them. But I just don't get this one.

Aug 21, 07 1:28 am  · 
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ok, a much more positive post this time around, I swear.

I know we talked quite a while ago about green bags, and I mentioned Alchemy goods in Seattle. I had an opportunity to see these in a shop last week, and they are really very nice. In addition, I noticed today on Treehugger that Alchemy is partnering with Whole Foods to turn old WF banners into reusable shopping bags. A bit pricey, but it's nice to see anyways, since I know they'll get bought.

Aug 23, 07 8:23 pm  · 
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WonderK

So I recently redid my carbon footprint to accommodate my new lifestyle and I was dismayed to learn that it didn't change much. It changed for sure, but I still need 2.5 earths.

Isn't there a better calculator than this? I mean, I don't even own a car anymore.....I feel as if I am being unfairly punished for eating turkey every other day.

PS. In response to liberty bell's post above from days ago: the tote bag on the left, the blue one, is the one I was referring to. And I too, love that picture of the wind-wing. So cool.

Aug 28, 07 12:20 am  · 
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treekiller

*bump*



LAtimes reports on the hypocrisy of carbon credits.

Sep 2, 07 5:25 pm  · 
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mad+dash

Who has seen 11th Hour? http://wip.warnerbros.com/11thhour/

I'm going to see it tonight or possibly tomorrow morning.

Sep 2, 07 6:14 pm  · 
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WonderK

Excellent graphic, tk.

stinky carpenter, how was the movie?

This is my favorite thing of the day, from Inhabitat:

God bless the Dutch

Peace! Gotta finish my homework....and wine.....

Sep 3, 07 1:50 am  · 
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more from Inhabitat, UK Channel 4 unveils Dumped

Sep 3, 07 6:16 pm  · 
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mightylittle™

*bump again*

DubK - the folks from GreenDimes are in the NYTimes today...

Sep 6, 07 4:13 pm  · 
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architecture 2030 update

(sorry quillian for posting this first.)

Sep 6, 07 9:18 pm  · 
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yikes. Makes me taking a car off the road into nothing, just like that.

Honestly, I'm confused about what they're trying to achieve. Most of the people I know would read that ad, and say to themselves, "So why bother using CFLs or buying an efficient vehicle? Now they're saying that it doesn't make a difference anyway!"

Sep 6, 07 9:26 pm  · 
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Think You’re Making a Difference?
Think Again.

Sep 6, 07 9:50 pm  · 
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WonderK

I'm glad to see GreenDimes made the NYT.

And yeah, that ad gets the point across, but it aggravates me a bit. So why don't you tell me what I can do to not get coal power plants built then? Because I'm doing everything else you tell me to do, and that's as much as *I* can do, right now.


On a side note, if anyone has any mad video-producing skills, there are a couple of competitions that might interest you:

- This one, from Al Gore, is a competition to produce an ad which will be played on Current TV, his new endeavor. Grand prize is a Toyota Highlander Hybrid, the runner up prizes aren't too shabby either

- The Vespa Go Green Video Challenge invites participants to create a video about how much carbon emissions we would save if a ton of people switched to scooters for commuting. I was actually going to try to do this one but with my schedule being so crazy, I am not sure if it will get done. Still the grand prize is a Vespa, so I'd like to try!

Sep 7, 07 3:30 pm  · 
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n_

Ladies and Gentleman of Green Thread Central,

I present to you Blackle.com.

It is essentially a more sustainable version of google.com solely through the use of its black background color. The standard white background found on google.com (and archinect for that matter) consumes more energy than a darker background.

Their simple solution to this energy consumption is to use to the same google search format but provide it in a black background therefore using less energy. It keeps a running tab of the amount of kilowatt hours have been saved by using this darker format of google.

I dig it.

Sep 11, 07 12:02 am  · 
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Katze

Bravo n_ How the heck did you find this??? Coming from the computing industry I am quite embarrassed not knowing of its existence. I digg it, but it does take some getting use to visually, agreed?

Sep 11, 07 2:14 am  · 
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WonderK

We talked about Blackle a few pages ago, actually. I really appreciate its mission.... although I find the word "blackle" a bit awkward. Made me think twice about making my web site with a white background, for sure....

Sep 11, 07 3:19 am  · 
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