(i had two co-workers burst out laughing at it. you totally win.)
Jul 3, 12 12:46 pm ·
·
uh, gawd...the people saying that you shouldn't work for free are idiots. If working for free works for you, then do it. Whatever it takes to be successful. How bad do you want it? Plenty of architects (and plenty of people in other careers/industries) have volunteered/sacrificed to get their foot in the door. Yeah, sure, it can suck (especially if $$$ is all you really care about) but sitting on your hands hands, not being an architect & not getting any closer to being an architect sucks even more.
Because why would anybody put money into an account with negative interest rates, yo!
In a deflationary economy, it's extremely difficult to grow revenues (sales), and as costs continue climbing inexorably, the only way to survive is to cut expenses so there is still some net for the owner/proprietor to live on. Consider the tax burden on a sole proprietor who might want to hire someone. The 15.3% Social Security/Medicare tax starts with dollar one. After the usual standard deductions, the Federal income tax is 15%, and 25% on all earned income above $34,800. My state tax is around 5%. Since every other advanced democracy pays basic healthcare coverage out of tax revenues, the $12,000/year we pay for barebones healthcare insurance is the equivalent of a tax. That's 15% of our income. Property tax is also $12,000 annually, so that's another 15%.
Above $35,000 in income, my tax burden is 15% + 25% + 5% + 15% + 15% = 75%. You can imagine how much money I would need to clear to be able to afford hiring someone. The number of businesses that generate huge sums of profit are few and far between, and the number of businesses that scale up from a one-person shop to mega-millions in revenues is also extremely limited.
The potential employer is faced with this reality: the money to hire a new employee will come out of my pay
As a general rule of thumb, take your salary, multiply it by two, and that's what you really cost your employer per year. If you can't generate at least that much revenue, then it doesn't make sense to hire you.
(also, the sharper among you may note: your real "salary", or gross compensation, is actually twice what you think it is. You just automatically lose half of it right out of the gate to goverment...and that's before you get taxed on the remainder.)
Jul 3, 12 2:59 pm ·
·
Yeah no kidding. Somebody needs to learn how to cite/link their sources. Or at the very least put it in quotes. Unless, of course, culture vulture is Charles Hugh Smith.
As a general rule of thumb, take your salary, multiply it by two, and that's what you really cost your employer per year. If you can't generate at least that much revenue, then it doesn't make sense to hire you.
That is true, and that is why IDP is a crock of shit! How can we rely on employers (with no incentive) to hire people as interns. Grads are being held back because of this shit. gw, are you for getting rid of the experiance mandate? If not, how do you justify your comment?
Licensure requirements are pure guild socialism. If you're going to have them, go all the way and make it a true master-apprentice system with all the duties and obligations entailed in that. We know that works. It was practiced for thousands of years with good results. Then we broke it in order to try and be like doctors or lawyers.
If you're not going to go full master-apprentice, then do away with the internship/licensure system entirely.
The half-assed mixture of quasi-professionalism, "free" marketeering, and guild rent-seeking we currently have is only hurting all of us: firm owners, established professionals, and interns alike.
No, Will. IDP exists to provide cover for a highly exploitative labor scam by which firms get cheap, highly educated workers to abuse for three years, yet have no real obligation to train or provide for them. There are several other threads here on Archinect that discuss this problem in depth.
As a general rule of thumb, take your salary, multiply it by two, and that's what you really cost your employer per year.
Please break that figure down for us, gw. Not buying it.
Jul 3, 12 10:08 pm ·
·
I don't know what gwharton's break down is (although probably something similar to the numbers in the C H Smith link) but when you figure the low salary of an arch intern and the high price of the AutoDesk software license (and a desk and a chair!) needed for each of these CAD monkeys, then that's probably enough to multiply by two.
Yes you should volunteer and do things, go looking for problems that a designer may be able to solve or alleviate. Look into neighborhood associations, especially historic neighborhoods, can you document historic buildings draft floor plans and elevations so they can be registered on the national register, I think you can you know what is in a wall section you know how to take measurements. You should show up to a neighborhood association meeting and offer your help, be prepared for lots of meetings. You might get a chance to do some challenging work and get to know people who have power and influence.
Yes you should join or form a group for young architects in your area to meet up once a month and network
No I don’t think you need to revisit your portfolio before trying the two options listed above
Yes you should treat your portfolio as a living growing thing and not get hung up on what it lacks as long as you have a plan to fill in those gaps.
You need to talk to people and working full time and looking for a job is not easy.
Use your lunches try to take an architect out to lunch once a week or twice a week. Do it each day that starts with a T. Go to lectures at local universities and ask questions. Asking questions shows that you care about the subject and respect the speakers presenting it.
Garbage in/ garbage out. You forgot to list everything you can write off as a business. Businesses have always been taxed this way and enough, before free trade and economic collapse, got along swimmingly. I know of plenty of endured veterans in this field who are barely a hair better than an intern, yet demand what they're worth simply because they've been around the block and know better... and get it. It's just another excuse not to pay the naive underlings.
Taxation is not your problem. Rampant capitalism is.
Quentin, do you have a cover letter that you use, could you post it and just put Mr. or Ms. Architect and list the architecture firm as some fictitious name?
There may be something that could be improved or included that might grab the reader’s attention. You may be writing something that is working against you. For me this was a tricky thing to get right.
Be brave post it and see what we can come up with, it may get us off the topic of the causes of our problems and help us focus on your specific situation.
Your situation and the advice given may be applicable to a lot of folks who are not posting these questions but are looking for the same answers.
Your portfolio is a little bland. I cant decide if your renderings, drawings, and diagrams are the result of poor academic teaching or your failure as a student. In either case I think you should take the time to look through some of the work posted here. Pay attention to the argument of a project and its execution. Then find a way to represent it in a layout that doesn't make it look like a corporate handout about fire safety. Or hire a graphic designer to do that work.
A B.S. just isn't good enough. These days you need an MA or a BA (different than a BS). You cant just apply to ONE graduate school. Apply EVERYWHERE. Do your research on schools and ask yourself honestly is the work in your portfolio similar to the design work of the school
Get a website. You cant afford not to have one.
Why the hell did you turn down a job in South Korea? That's just fucking dumb. Take what you can get. Otherwise don't complain that you've applied to 400 places and cant find a job.
For the most part I agree with the above. I think you need to seriously review your work. Apply to smaller firms where the competition isnt that tough. Also your portfolio seems that it would be more appropriate for small suburban work rather than up and rising city work.
The bottom line is that expectations have risen considerably since the start of recession
fewer positions/too many architects = increased qualifications
do what it takes because your best is never good enough
many are leaving architecture - it takes an enormous amount of talent - not that you don't have it - you just have not demonstrated it and until you do, you will have a tough go of it.
Quentin - you see, I graduated in 07' with a portfolio similar to yours and got hired by SOM-SF only for my Revit Skills - when the bottom fell out in 08' I was in the first wave out the door - Nobody would hire me - Nobody - I had to face facts and redo my thesis project and everything else- really step up my game - and practice on Revit every day for 12 months to really have an in depth knowledge and then I was able to get some temp jobs and then work my way back to a permanent(albiet 1099) gig at a small office. Was it worth the effort?
When you see all the homeless people in downtown San Francisco pissing on the sidewalk - you got to ask yourself one thing "is this how I want to end up?
VS that South Korea job was not some miracle job. CAD drafting box buildings, and not for an architecture firm. Like I said from the firms and architects I've talked to, they don't really care all that much about your CAD experience, everyone has that. Oh and for the record they did not offically offer me the job, I just didn't continue in the process. Laslty,I can continue to do CAD projects here in the States rather than move to S. Korea.
Peter I'll message you my cover letter, so you can have a look at it.
I've already addressed the portfolio.
I will start improving my revit skills. Going to go pick up a book today. I only have a basic understanding, I know there is a lot more to know.
Again thanks for all the advice.
URS's Atlatna office called me the other day, hopefully I'll hear back from them. Fingers crossed. Seems like a sweet office they have down there.
What is the opinion of this forum about asking politely for justification for your rejection if you are so lucky to get a rejection email from a real person?
I honestly didn't think the undergrad portfolio was all that bad. Better than mine looked! And it got me into 5 grad schools too. Sounds like you've already updated though, so no need to keep going.
Think hard if you decide to go to grad school because it doesn't help your situation.(if its just to put on your resume) Like others have said, it comes down to connections. Like with any industry. 2 of my 3 intern jobs were from 5th degree connections. The other was just straight persistence and luck, which you have been doing.
I would definitely try to get a job with any kind of office for just a short period if possible first, before you go to grad school. You may not like it. Personally I found I liked the 3 years of doing carpentry work (in between school) way more gratifying and relaxing, but that's just me. (and why i'm there instead) You never know.
I took a look at your portfolio and I have to say your designs are not adventurous and i believe you need to take more risks, not only in design but in life. I got my bachelors in architecture and masters in construction management and not working in my field at the moment but will in the future.
Hang in there and be open to try new things and be willing to go out of your comfort zone. People will hire you based on your personality and then your skills. There is always light at the end of the tunnel <no matter how long that tunnel is> Keep at it and good luck.
i took a look at your portfolio and I agree with ekanem amba, but also it's not about being adventurous or not. i'm attending an architecture school in the dominican republic, and one of the things i learn in my second studio is how to design something that works because sometimes is not about designing something that looks good, it is also designing something that works for people, because the job of an architect is to design for people and make things easier for them. when i looked at your professional work on the last page of your portfolio i found things that in my perspective weren't right. but also as ekanem said take more risk, gain more experience go to grad school because sometimes a bachelor is not enough, we live in a time period where a master's degree is very important and when you start looking for a job once they see that you have a masters you will have more doors open.
1 demonstrate all of the techniques you are good at
Revit, CAD, SketchUp, Sketching, Rendering with markers and pencils, model building, Viz, 3d Studio, Rhino, and built things
2 have some flashy stuff
3 have some realistic stuff
4 have projects that cover the types of projects you would want to work on
5 have people in the renderings (unless the architecture is to be looked at and not lived in)
6 demonstrate restraint and careful editing, don’t throw everything into the portfolio.
7 also show that you can design the portfolio its self.
The portfolio is a snapshot in time of your work your sensibilities and your abilities as a designer, keep your old portfolios to remind yourself how far you have come. Remember portfolios are like hips they can and will be replaced if they stop working for you. You have to let go of the work that is not representing you very well.
Graduated 2009, still no job :(
you win.
(i had two co-workers burst out laughing at it. you totally win.)
uh, gawd...the people saying that you shouldn't work for free are idiots. If working for free works for you, then do it. Whatever it takes to be successful. How bad do you want it? Plenty of architects (and plenty of people in other careers/industries) have volunteered/sacrificed to get their foot in the door. Yeah, sure, it can suck (especially if $$$ is all you really care about) but sitting on your hands hands, not being an architect & not getting any closer to being an architect sucks even more.
Because why would anybody put money into an account with negative interest rates, yo!
In a deflationary economy, it's extremely difficult to grow revenues (sales), and as costs continue climbing inexorably, the only way to survive is to cut expenses so there is still some net for the owner/proprietor to live on. Consider the tax burden on a sole proprietor who might want to hire someone. The 15.3% Social Security/Medicare tax starts with dollar one. After the usual standard deductions, the Federal income tax is 15%, and 25% on all earned income above $34,800. My state tax is around 5%. Since every other advanced democracy pays basic healthcare coverage out of tax revenues, the $12,000/year we pay for barebones healthcare insurance is the equivalent of a tax. That's 15% of our income. Property tax is also $12,000 annually, so that's another 15%.
Above $35,000 in income, my tax burden is 15% + 25% + 5% + 15% + 15% = 75%. You can imagine how much money I would need to clear to be able to afford hiring someone. The number of businesses that generate huge sums of profit are few and far between, and the number of businesses that scale up from a one-person shop to mega-millions in revenues is also extremely limited.
The potential employer is faced with this reality: the money to hire a new employee will come out of my pay
Sounds like someone's been reading Charles Hugh Smith. ;-)
http://www.oftwominds.com/blogjuly12/why-cant-hire7-12.html
As a general rule of thumb, take your salary, multiply it by two, and that's what you really cost your employer per year. If you can't generate at least that much revenue, then it doesn't make sense to hire you.
(also, the sharper among you may note: your real "salary", or gross compensation, is actually twice what you think it is. You just automatically lose half of it right out of the gate to goverment...and that's before you get taxed on the remainder.)
Yeah no kidding. Somebody needs to learn how to cite/link their sources. Or at the very least put it in quotes. Unless, of course, culture vulture is Charles Hugh Smith.
Yo!
people who say things like "Aw gawd" are idiots.
As a general rule of thumb, take your salary, multiply it by two, and that's what you really cost your employer per year. If you can't generate at least that much revenue, then it doesn't make sense to hire you.
That is true, and that is why IDP is a crock of shit! How can we rely on employers (with no incentive) to hire people as interns. Grads are being held back because of this shit. gw, are you for getting rid of the experiance mandate? If not, how do you justify your comment?
"IDP? thats not for you - we hired you just to model in Revit"
eh, the new IDP is stupid easy to fill though...
Licensure requirements are pure guild socialism. If you're going to have them, go all the way and make it a true master-apprentice system with all the duties and obligations entailed in that. We know that works. It was practiced for thousands of years with good results. Then we broke it in order to try and be like doctors or lawyers.
If you're not going to go full master-apprentice, then do away with the internship/licensure system entirely.
The half-assed mixture of quasi-professionalism, "free" marketeering, and guild rent-seeking we currently have is only hurting all of us: firm owners, established professionals, and interns alike.
idp is about getting experience in setting where decisions matter, unlike school.
it may be frustrating at times, but basically that is all it is for. no need to add old demons to the mix.
eh, the worst part is the limitations on accepted corporate structures. ny is particularly harsh.
No, Will. IDP exists to provide cover for a highly exploitative labor scam by which firms get cheap, highly educated workers to abuse for three years, yet have no real obligation to train or provide for them. There are several other threads here on Archinect that discuss this problem in depth.
As a general rule of thumb, take your salary, multiply it by two, and that's what you really cost your employer per year.
Please break that figure down for us, gw. Not buying it.
I don't know what gwharton's break down is (although probably something similar to the numbers in the C H Smith link) but when you figure the low salary of an arch intern and the high price of the AutoDesk software license (and a desk and a chair!) needed for each of these CAD monkeys, then that's probably enough to multiply by two.
Buy that, yo!
So back to the original question
Yes you should volunteer and do things, go looking for problems that a designer may be able to solve or alleviate. Look into neighborhood associations, especially historic neighborhoods, can you document historic buildings draft floor plans and elevations so they can be registered on the national register, I think you can you know what is in a wall section you know how to take measurements. You should show up to a neighborhood association meeting and offer your help, be prepared for lots of meetings. You might get a chance to do some challenging work and get to know people who have power and influence.
Yes you should join or form a group for young architects in your area to meet up once a month and network
No I don’t think you need to revisit your portfolio before trying the two options listed above
Yes you should treat your portfolio as a living growing thing and not get hung up on what it lacks as long as you have a plan to fill in those gaps.
You need to talk to people and working full time and looking for a job is not easy.
Use your lunches try to take an architect out to lunch once a week or twice a week. Do it each day that starts with a T. Go to lectures at local universities and ask questions. Asking questions shows that you care about the subject and respect the speakers presenting it.
Garbage in/ garbage out. You forgot to list everything you can write off as a business. Businesses have always been taxed this way and enough, before free trade and economic collapse, got along swimmingly. I know of plenty of endured veterans in this field who are barely a hair better than an intern, yet demand what they're worth simply because they've been around the block and know better... and get it. It's just another excuse not to pay the naive underlings.
Taxation is not your problem. Rampant capitalism is.
I think wee are going in a slightly different direction. The guy has no job, who cares about tax in that case
Quentin, do you have a cover letter that you use, could you post it and just put Mr. or Ms. Architect and list the architecture firm as some fictitious name?
There may be something that could be improved or included that might grab the reader’s attention. You may be writing something that is working against you. For me this was a tricky thing to get right.
Be brave post it and see what we can come up with, it may get us off the topic of the causes of our problems and help us focus on your specific situation.
Your situation and the advice given may be applicable to a lot of folks who are not posting these questions but are looking for the same answers.
Over and OUT
Peter N
Honest answer:
Your portfolio is a little bland. I cant decide if your renderings, drawings, and diagrams are the result of poor academic teaching or your failure as a student. In either case I think you should take the time to look through some of the work posted here. Pay attention to the argument of a project and its execution. Then find a way to represent it in a layout that doesn't make it look like a corporate handout about fire safety. Or hire a graphic designer to do that work.
A B.S. just isn't good enough. These days you need an MA or a BA (different than a BS). You cant just apply to ONE graduate school. Apply EVERYWHERE. Do your research on schools and ask yourself honestly is the work in your portfolio similar to the design work of the school
Get a website. You cant afford not to have one.
Why the hell did you turn down a job in South Korea? That's just fucking dumb. Take what you can get. Otherwise don't complain that you've applied to 400 places and cant find a job.
For the most part I agree with the above. I think you need to seriously review your work. Apply to smaller firms where the competition isnt that tough. Also your portfolio seems that it would be more appropriate for small suburban work rather than up and rising city work.
The bottom line is that expectations have risen considerably since the start of recession
fewer positions/too many architects = increased qualifications
do what it takes because your best is never good enough
many are leaving architecture - it takes an enormous amount of talent - not that you don't have it - you just have not demonstrated it and until you do, you will have a tough go of it.
Quentin - you see, I graduated in 07' with a portfolio similar to yours and got hired by SOM-SF only for my Revit Skills - when the bottom fell out in 08' I was in the first wave out the door - Nobody would hire me - Nobody - I had to face facts and redo my thesis project and everything else- really step up my game - and practice on Revit every day for 12 months to really have an in depth knowledge and then I was able to get some temp jobs and then work my way back to a permanent(albiet 1099) gig at a small office. Was it worth the effort?
When you see all the homeless people in downtown San Francisco pissing on the sidewalk - you got to ask yourself one thing "is this how I want to end up?
VS that South Korea job was not some miracle job. CAD drafting box buildings, and not for an architecture firm. Like I said from the firms and architects I've talked to, they don't really care all that much about your CAD experience, everyone has that. Oh and for the record they did not offically offer me the job, I just didn't continue in the process. Laslty,I can continue to do CAD projects here in the States rather than move to S. Korea.
Peter I'll message you my cover letter, so you can have a look at it.
I've already addressed the portfolio.
I will start improving my revit skills. Going to go pick up a book today. I only have a basic understanding, I know there is a lot more to know.
Again thanks for all the advice.
URS's Atlatna office called me the other day, hopefully I'll hear back from them. Fingers crossed. Seems like a sweet office they have down there.
You go Quentin! Way to keep focused with positive energy and maturity.
the author for Revit I recommend is Daniel John Stine
What is the opinion of this forum about asking politely for justification for your rejection if you are so lucky to get a rejection email from a real person?
I honestly didn't think the undergrad portfolio was all that bad. Better than mine looked! And it got me into 5 grad schools too. Sounds like you've already updated though, so no need to keep going.
Think hard if you decide to go to grad school because it doesn't help your situation.(if its just to put on your resume) Like others have said, it comes down to connections. Like with any industry. 2 of my 3 intern jobs were from 5th degree connections. The other was just straight persistence and luck, which you have been doing.
I would definitely try to get a job with any kind of office for just a short period if possible first, before you go to grad school. You may not like it. Personally I found I liked the 3 years of doing carpentry work (in between school) way more gratifying and relaxing, but that's just me. (and why i'm there instead) You never know.
I took a look at your portfolio and I have to say your designs are not adventurous and i believe you need to take more risks, not only in design but in life. I got my bachelors in architecture and masters in construction management and not working in my field at the moment but will in the future.
Hang in there and be open to try new things and be willing to go out of your comfort zone. People will hire you based on your personality and then your skills. There is always light at the end of the tunnel <no matter how long that tunnel is> Keep at it and good luck.
i took a look at your portfolio and I agree with ekanem amba, but also it's not about being adventurous or not. i'm attending an architecture school in the dominican republic, and one of the things i learn in my second studio is how to design something that works because sometimes is not about designing something that looks good, it is also designing something that works for people, because the job of an architect is to design for people and make things easier for them. when i looked at your professional work on the last page of your portfolio i found things that in my perspective weren't right. but also as ekanem said take more risk, gain more experience go to grad school because sometimes a bachelor is not enough, we live in a time period where a master's degree is very important and when you start looking for a job once they see that you have a masters you will have more doors open.
Portfolio checklist
1 demonstrate all of the techniques you are good at
Revit, CAD, SketchUp, Sketching, Rendering with markers and pencils, model building, Viz, 3d Studio, Rhino, and built things
2 have some flashy stuff
3 have some realistic stuff
4 have projects that cover the types of projects you would want to work on
5 have people in the renderings (unless the architecture is to be looked at and not lived in)
6 demonstrate restraint and careful editing, don’t throw everything into the portfolio.
7 also show that you can design the portfolio its self.
The portfolio is a snapshot in time of your work your sensibilities and your abilities as a designer, keep your old portfolios to remind yourself how far you have come. Remember portfolios are like hips they can and will be replaced if they stop working for you. You have to let go of the work that is not representing you very well.
8 Process sketches and notes
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