You'll need the plat and an aerial photo from city hall
Building drawings - harder to get. Where did the Gross Point drawings come from?
Clevland has a good city hall website - complete with interactive zoning maps Clevland Zoning as well as links to their planning criteria for the downtown district planning commission
Anyone do freedom of Info search? The property is owned by the county now, so it should be public record, I think this may be the PIN...
PARCEL ID 101-36-052
OWNERS NAME NINTH STREET-EUCLIDLTD PART
ADDRESS 00900-00916 EUCLID AVE
CITY CLEVELAND
ZIP 44115
the breuer building is a significant example of the kind of 50s crap that most people besides modernistas find kinda yucky. though destroying it would be a waste of resources, just like the bullshit with the cleveland building...cant either of these thingys become landmarks in environmentally responsible architectural renovations while maintaining significant examples of the kind of 50s crap that most people besides modernistas find kinda yucky...doesnt breuer's cultural contribution extend well beyond the mere material contribution of these buildings? and look at the popularity of dwell and other anemic modernist retail fantasies like west elm, its a retro-volution! someday these piles could be sought after condos! or the paris hilton memorial library! i'm sad...and when da fuk did parking become the overt driving force behind architecture and community planning? oh right, just about the time when this little 'ol library was built...but whatnever! thats so fifties! just like this little...i'm sad...remind me if i had point.
i am the first person in this spool to use the word yucky...therefore my description regarding the general attitudinal differences between design aficionados, designers, and lay people is an innovation. but my comment regarding the general attitudinal differences between design aficionados, designers, and lay people is not. thanks for keepin' it real.
while your comment about a "general attitudinal differences between design aficionados, designers, and lay people" would/could be on the mark in a lot of situations, not without, in [i]this[i/] situation, we've seen that there is a lot of love for breuer's library among members of the community. and they have expressed to us that they are glad that our noisemaking has gained more attention for the situation and enlarged the community conversation about the buildings' future.
not without... so your point is you think the library is 'kinda yucky' but you still think it should not be torn down? just to get your point right.
because i can live with that. i totally disagree with your assessment of the library, but basically, yours is a judgment on taste. if subjective taste was what determined good/bad architecture, i'd be out of a job [arch. teacher]. fortunately, there are other, more objective parameters to decide what makes a building good or bad. and by those general parameters, this building is good:
- is nicely proportioned. geometrically proportioned, and in accordance with programmatic needs
- it has good detailing and use of material- materials have been chosen that adjust to their purpose and context.
- its spaces are functional and if they don't serve current needs, they can be easily adapted.
- it has good lighting strategies- a good amount of windows in the appropriate places and they serve their purpose well
- good structure detailing and expression. good strategies for base, membrane, structure and hearth.
so, i'm not even taking it further. its a good building but like every object on the face of the earth, some people might subjectively find it yucky. that's not the point.
squirrelly: I will take Leo's throw backs......think you can line me up with Jazzelle....the Victoria Secret Model. Damn she looks finer than any Calder or Klandinsky....I will let Grosse Pointe Keep them long as I end up with Leo's "X"
so your point is you think the library is 'kinda yucky' but you still think it should not be torn down? just to get your point right.
no, thats not right. and an expanded conversation does not mean a single voice. the disavowal of subjectivity is exactly what makes some aspects of the profession, and some professionals, distasteful. nice, accord, good, ease, and more good are subjective parameters. but with the reinforcement of either like-minded bloggers, institutions, or friends you can be exonerated of all subjectivity, and yucky voices can be drowned out. its subjective mythological metanarratives and our own constructed sense of self that fuels passion, desire, and design. we constantly negotiate between desire and design, strive to give our wishes materiallity, and look for friendly affirmation. hegemonic group hugs are a gas, yet beware of cultural coat tails. but that doesnt mean i dont want people to like what i like...and i kinda like the little ol' library.
Beside being a libray there are houses that shuld be cared like any other feature object ,be spared and enjoy but, --- This story maybe tell what I mean ; I was once at a place of these cosy type of houses yet, in a corner of the huge space the meeting room , the roof seemed to have dropped down and weathered wuite obvious ,and this is inside the structure with it's grat huge windows and almost curtain wall aproach, yet the selected group of people working there ,at dayli basis , doing something irelevant to the discussion yet, none of this crowd, perople with a nice job did newer, newer did one single person or one particular group get together, to repair the trivial gypsum sheets loft. no one and the years passed by.
Then when I first encounterd the obvious dameage to the basic building then the source had been there since the building was assembled and prepared so --- I agrea to a lot of these 70' huses ,the Legoness and Rigitity in them , not around , I love the great spaces and how in fact cheap this is build, I agrea to that and yet, how boring isn't a lot of it so , hope we agrea ; there must be others than just that trend , that design around and there are problems --- one of them, the fact that people working in it know so little about what it is realy made of , while it's not their job to even get the electrics off, before it all blow itself into the air by construction foults. The fact that decay can alter more than halve the building, before someone blow the whissle.
------- Sorry but sometimes there are things you ofcaurse support, yet things rather shuld be about doing it better.
sure snooker....let me get my people to call Leo and set that up for you! ok?
hehe
not without, I understand what you are saying, but at the same time I have to throw this into the mix:
my question to you is, if you do find such faults (from what I am reading) in the way some are approaching this 'type' of effort, then where o where is your solution? I mean (going on a tangent myself) arent' we in a profession where people will come to us/give us a problem and we are meant to resolve, or come back with solutions or options? This rather obtuse and convoluted speech is not serving anything other than your thoughts that don't really serve a purpose other than what you are trying to express, which I must add, is a bit trite.
Now, this is just my opinion and I am in no way attacking you, but I am asking you to just be straight forward and express your concerns coupled with solutions. Don't talk about it just to talk about it.
We all got together because rather than just talking about it, we wanted to be INVOLVED...and hence we have been in some form.
Wow, the author of the article makes it seem as if they are going to make a decision to raze it before the end of the year! I thought that this decision had been stayed, at least for some time!
this was a very poorly written article describing the events of the last few months, inexplicably, featuring the case for demolition and downplaying the importance of the charrette to the preservation effort. the charrette was instrumental in changing a lot of local people's perception of the library. the library board at their march meeting delayed their request for millage funds from november, 2007 until at least may, 2008, a major step towards saving the library from demolition. while laura bartell is the board president her views are not a fair reflection of the boards position on the whole.
yikes...it's already been a full year since this started. thanks again to everybody that contributed. it took a little bit of time but all of the "virtual activism" definitely was a success and for all intents and purposes we did manage to play a significant role in saving the breuer from demolition.
A bit off subject but when I was home over Christmas I visted the St. Francis de Sales church in Muskegon, another project in Michigan by Breuer. These quicktimes are nice but don't really do it any justice.
for marcel breuer's admirers
You'll need the plat and an aerial photo from city hall
Building drawings - harder to get. Where did the Gross Point drawings come from?
Clevland has a good city hall website - complete with interactive zoning maps Clevland Zoning as well as links to their planning criteria for the downtown district planning commission
LAYER: ZONING
ZONE_CODE GR-E5
ZONE_USE GR
ZONE_DESC General Retail Business
ZONE_DIST E
ZONE_HGT 5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ZONE_CODE GR-E6
ZONE_USE GR
ZONE_DESC General Retail Business
ZONE_DIST E
ZONE_HGT 6
the grosse pointe library let us reproduce the original blueprints.
Very nice of them; I doubt Ameritrust would even let us see them.
Whats the status quo on microfilms? Do you think the city would allow reproduction of the permit drawings for a high rise downtown?
I have a hard enough time getting them for a drive up bank in nowhere USA
Anyone do freedom of Info search? The property is owned by the county now, so it should be public record, I think this may be the PIN...
PARCEL ID 101-36-052
OWNERS NAME NINTH STREET-EUCLIDLTD PART
ADDRESS 00900-00916 EUCLID AVE
CITY CLEVELAND
ZIP 44115
However i thought the county owned it
the breuer building is a significant example of the kind of 50s crap that most people besides modernistas find kinda yucky. though destroying it would be a waste of resources, just like the bullshit with the cleveland building...cant either of these thingys become landmarks in environmentally responsible architectural renovations while maintaining significant examples of the kind of 50s crap that most people besides modernistas find kinda yucky...doesnt breuer's cultural contribution extend well beyond the mere material contribution of these buildings? and look at the popularity of dwell and other anemic modernist retail fantasies like west elm, its a retro-volution! someday these piles could be sought after condos! or the paris hilton memorial library! i'm sad...and when da fuk did parking become the overt driving force behind architecture and community planning? oh right, just about the time when this little 'ol library was built...but whatnever! thats so fifties! just like this little...i'm sad...remind me if i had point.
this kinda yucky comment was made on page one...
i am the first person in this spool to use the word yucky...therefore my description regarding the general attitudinal differences between design aficionados, designers, and lay people is an innovation. but my comment regarding the general attitudinal differences between design aficionados, designers, and lay people is not. thanks for keepin' it real.
while your comment about a "general attitudinal differences between design aficionados, designers, and lay people" would/could be on the mark in a lot of situations, not without, in [i]this[i/] situation, we've seen that there is a lot of love for breuer's library among members of the community. and they have expressed to us that they are glad that our noisemaking has gained more attention for the situation and enlarged the community conversation about the buildings' future.
not without... so your point is you think the library is 'kinda yucky' but you still think it should not be torn down? just to get your point right.
because i can live with that. i totally disagree with your assessment of the library, but basically, yours is a judgment on taste. if subjective taste was what determined good/bad architecture, i'd be out of a job [arch. teacher]. fortunately, there are other, more objective parameters to decide what makes a building good or bad. and by those general parameters, this building is good:
- is nicely proportioned. geometrically proportioned, and in accordance with programmatic needs
- it has good detailing and use of material- materials have been chosen that adjust to their purpose and context.
- its spaces are functional and if they don't serve current needs, they can be easily adapted.
- it has good lighting strategies- a good amount of windows in the appropriate places and they serve their purpose well
- good structure detailing and expression. good strategies for base, membrane, structure and hearth.
so, i'm not even taking it further. its a good building but like every object on the face of the earth, some people might subjectively find it yucky. that's not the point.
squirrelly: I will take Leo's throw backs......think you can line me up with Jazzelle....the Victoria Secret Model. Damn she looks finer than any Calder or Klandinsky....I will let Grosse Pointe Keep them long as I end up with Leo's "X"
so your point is you think the library is 'kinda yucky' but you still think it should not be torn down? just to get your point right.
no, thats not right. and an expanded conversation does not mean a single voice. the disavowal of subjectivity is exactly what makes some aspects of the profession, and some professionals, distasteful. nice, accord, good, ease, and more good are subjective parameters. but with the reinforcement of either like-minded bloggers, institutions, or friends you can be exonerated of all subjectivity, and yucky voices can be drowned out. its subjective mythological metanarratives and our own constructed sense of self that fuels passion, desire, and design. we constantly negotiate between desire and design, strive to give our wishes materiallity, and look for friendly affirmation. hegemonic group hugs are a gas, yet beware of cultural coat tails. but that doesnt mean i dont want people to like what i like...and i kinda like the little ol' library.
Beside being a libray there are houses that shuld be cared like any other feature object ,be spared and enjoy but, --- This story maybe tell what I mean ; I was once at a place of these cosy type of houses yet, in a corner of the huge space the meeting room , the roof seemed to have dropped down and weathered wuite obvious ,and this is inside the structure with it's grat huge windows and almost curtain wall aproach, yet the selected group of people working there ,at dayli basis , doing something irelevant to the discussion yet, none of this crowd, perople with a nice job did newer, newer did one single person or one particular group get together, to repair the trivial gypsum sheets loft. no one and the years passed by.
Then when I first encounterd the obvious dameage to the basic building then the source had been there since the building was assembled and prepared so --- I agrea to a lot of these 70' huses ,the Legoness and Rigitity in them , not around , I love the great spaces and how in fact cheap this is build, I agrea to that and yet, how boring isn't a lot of it so , hope we agrea ; there must be others than just that trend , that design around and there are problems --- one of them, the fact that people working in it know so little about what it is realy made of , while it's not their job to even get the electrics off, before it all blow itself into the air by construction foults. The fact that decay can alter more than halve the building, before someone blow the whissle.
------- Sorry but sometimes there are things you ofcaurse support, yet things rather shuld be about doing it better.
sure snooker....let me get my people to call Leo and set that up for you! ok?
hehe
not without, I understand what you are saying, but at the same time I have to throw this into the mix:
my question to you is, if you do find such faults (from what I am reading) in the way some are approaching this 'type' of effort, then where o where is your solution? I mean (going on a tangent myself) arent' we in a profession where people will come to us/give us a problem and we are meant to resolve, or come back with solutions or options? This rather obtuse and convoluted speech is not serving anything other than your thoughts that don't really serve a purpose other than what you are trying to express, which I must add, is a bit trite.
Now, this is just my opinion and I am in no way attacking you, but I am asking you to just be straight forward and express your concerns coupled with solutions. Don't talk about it just to talk about it.
We all got together because rather than just talking about it, we wanted to be INVOLVED...and hence we have been in some form.
u get my drift??
thanks steven.
Wow, the author of the article makes it seem as if they are going to make a decision to raze it before the end of the year! I thought that this decision had been stayed, at least for some time!
this was a very poorly written article describing the events of the last few months, inexplicably, featuring the case for demolition and downplaying the importance of the charrette to the preservation effort. the charrette was instrumental in changing a lot of local people's perception of the library. the library board at their march meeting delayed their request for millage funds from november, 2007 until at least may, 2008, a major step towards saving the library from demolition. while laura bartell is the board president her views are not a fair reflection of the boards position on the whole.
yikes...it's already been a full year since this started. thanks again to everybody that contributed. it took a little bit of time but all of the "virtual activism" definitely was a success and for all intents and purposes we did manage to play a significant role in saving the breuer from demolition.
puddles....my caldner sculpture hasn't arrived yet....i am so dissapointed.
A bit off subject but when I was home over Christmas I visted the St. Francis de Sales church in Muskegon, another project in Michigan by Breuer. These quicktimes are nice but don't really do it any justice.
http://home.comcast.net/~wayne.degner/Panos/ALTERUPA.mov
http://home.comcast.net/~wayne.degner/Panos/alterfinal.mov
recent update in gpl board minutes. designlab/miklos appear to be doing a good job!
http://www.gp.lib.mi.us/information/about/minutes/bominut092407.pdf
hate to say it, steven, but those minutes are from '07. the library expansion as far as i know is on hold indefinitely (if not worse).
crap. shoulda paid more attention.
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