Architect friends of mine around my age (early thirties) are doing just fine, from boutique firms to big corporate ones.
A friend of a friend who works for a well known corporate firm (with a 3 letter acronym) just got a $25K holiday bonus. There's plenty of money to be made in this profession, it just depends of what your priority is...
Today, I left the home/office at 8:30 and returned around 5:00. I never made a dime, but I had one hell of a day. Poking around this old building, which is a bakery. There was a stream of people moving thru there today. The Area Health Sanitarian, Bakery Equipment Guys, Tile Subcontractor, Heating Contractor, various carpenters, ceiling sub-contractor, computer guy, and the owner.
Lots and lots of action, good action....things coming together.
Looking across the top of a 5'-0 X 12'-0 long maple butcher block bread table, just refinished....oh what a beautiful site.
Listening to the banter between the Sanitarian and the Bakery Equipment Guy, as they say Priceless. Everyone respecting one another in the very best way.
After all settles away the owner and myself drive off to another location where he has the carved oak cafe counter which I have been hearing about for months. 15' feet of oak glory....almost wet my pants....cause it is so beautiful...
Ah....hell with making alot of money.....knowing I can help bring a few great loaves of bread to the people.....by helping a small businessman make his dream come true. I do know one thing when the day is done.....their will always be a free loaf of bread waiting for me as long as his door is open, along with a great deal of respect for a job well done. So go drive your porche.....cause you will never find the finer meaning of life racing down the road at 160 mph.
i think, contrary to many of the students on this board, that it is architects who don't fully appreciate the value of architecture.
I couldn't agree more. Also don't understand much of the whining about money. We make decent wages, everyone. Welcome to the working world. It ain't given to you. Do you see architects living in public housing? No. Do you see architects wearing Old Navy clothes and shopping at WalMart--not by choice? No. Stop being so snobby about your money.
One of the first things I put on my parents' grocery list was raw almonds. Actually, it was the very first thing. Second was a whole lot of fruit and cheese. mmm... there are some advantages to living at home. Someone else pays the grocery bill!
i tried a recipe for an artichoke risotto i found on the food section of the newspaper...that thing called for pecorino romano, artichokes with one inch diameter stems, pinot grigio, and arborio rice...
wow. gone for two days and already this thread is packed. I guess I touched a nerve with this topic. Glad to hear I'm not the only one thinking about this, although it started to deteriorate at the end there. im eating roasted almonds as im reading this. mmmmmm
Architects should study some business in architecture school. Make certain business electives mandatory in college.
Marketing, Micro-economics, Real Estate Valuation...
Just "Marketing" alone will save the industry somewhat from undercutting each other. The concept of "Positioning". You cannot be all things to everybody. You need to position yourself. When you don't position yourself, the only business advantage then becomes price. Apple and BMW doesn't give a shit if their phones/cars are more expensive. Price is what you pay, value is what you get. If you are a Toyota, be the economical option - Low price, high volume. Or you can be the premium option - high price, low (sales) volume. But you cannot be both at the same time.
If architects don't understand Real Estate Valuation, how can they design something VALUABLE as what THE MARKET wants? (What the market wants, not what you want. What the market wants is what they will pay a premium for, and it is the only leverage you have for your services.). What is a "Grade A" office space? I was shocked to see none of my directors could answer me when I asked while working in a commercial firm. Yet, these are terminology that property developers use. We HAVE control over it, but we as designers just choose to ignore it. We should leverage it. Make $.
Economics - know how a market works. How pricing is determined in the market with no central committee determining them.
Pareto Principle (Law of Diminishing Marginal Returns) in Economics - it will stop the (unnecessary) all-nighters. Which means to say, 80% effort is somewhat ideal. Anything more than that, you are not being efficient. Because the graph for effort-to-returns is an S-curve.
Sales - you can't really "learn" sales from a class unless you apprentice and do it in a sales team. But the ability to sell your design, your firm, your expertise to the client is so crucial. Why choose you? Why choose a design over another one? Whatever you learned in crit sessions in school is not applicable in the Board Room at the Property Developer's office. You need to subtly suggest (not tell) the client why are you worth paying the money, why the design is worth the money invested and why they shouldn't go for the cheap option.
These things need to be skillfully implanted into the client's mind step by step. It is not automatic. (Marketing falls under "passive selling". Active selling is you going out there to convince the client he should choose a design that is more expensive but is good for him, as opposed to the cheap and ugly option which is not good for him. This takes SKILL. Because you cannot just talk down on your client. You must lead him into this conclusion himself. Don't be a used-car salesman. I recommend SPIN selling by Neil Rackham. I used his principles in negotiating with a Managing Director (the client) to trial our firm's innovative design option. It was innovative, but the client saw it as an untested solution - a risk. (She eventually did not use it, but I was already off the team and had no continual working relationship with this client.) Our Director (and Associate Director) were dumbfounded in the meeting when the client questioned our expensive and untested design option with a negative reaction. We worked really hard. There was an uncomfortable silence, and although I was supposed to be the guy who was there only to carry the presentation boards and the directors were there to sell the design, I just had to speak up. The client agreed partially (to trial with a full scale mockup on the south wing) instead of flat out rejection because I opened my mouth the right way. I earned the respect of my Director. The point is: Sales skills are important.
Jun 21, 17 7:31 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
Calm down junior. Most senior to intermediate architects a decent handle of what you list.
Jun 21, 17 8:36 am ·
·
archi_dude
HA! No they don't.
Jun 21, 17 11:19 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
Your mileage may differ, but I've certainly not of the same opini
on as the wanker above.
Architects are paid just fine. It's the effort vs pay that's out of whack. However this is totally self inflicted through a self masturbation education, needless redesigns at work to chase a perfect design, ridiculous work flows made by architects and PM's who can't even print from modern software and attention to detail in renderings and presentations that no client cares the slightest for.
I think the pay thing is pretty funny. I've gone through 4 jobs in the past 4 years, been working for about 10, 6 total firms. I made roughly the same amount for the first 6 years or so, but once I decided to demand better, my pay and responsibility level has risen quickly.
because when a client asks about structure and MEP, zoning, and code we all have consultants rather than actually knowing that stuff. Clients like answers, not a middleman.
Jun 22, 17 7:26 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
Really? Code and zoning consultants? That's sad. I do all my own and even dictate a large portion of M&E's scope. Gota keep them p.eng on a tight leash. But you're at least right about the client looking for answers. We've got a big repeat client and he'll chew you up live if you don't have good answers on the spot. Good thing for me is that I can roll qith the questions. My mechanical guy can barely
keep up.
It's decent pay and lifestyle as a freelancer where I can work my own hours. I have a newborn and go to doc's appointments often. The doc's make more than me obviously but I can sense their jealousy when they ask what I do and I say architecture and interior design. (Like HGTV?, they ask. Sometimes I say I don't know what HGTV is, ha.)
Nobody needs architects. We're like cosmetic surgery.
Jun 22, 17 3:12 pm ·
·
Jamb'd
"Nobody needs architects." I guess that is the problem.
The new housing industry has phased us out. But still, through commercial, industrial, institutional, multi-family - shouldn't there be a higher demand for architects. Am I missing something?
Jun 22, 17 4:01 pm ·
·
Wilma Buttfit
I think people just don't know what architects do. They think we draw some walls and print it out and hand it off. They don't know about the massive amount of paperwork and coordination it takes to make a project really work not to mention the extensive knowledge you must have. That stuff takes a lot of time. Most laypeople think what architects do is what we accomplish at about 75% schematics. "You're done!" They say. We laugh, then cry.
It's not just architects, but employees in general. To crack the top 10% of income earners you only need to make $135k a year. Not a pittance, but not a fortune either. Which means 90% of income earners make less than $135k/year.
Glad someone revived this thread. I have dwelled on this subject near daily since graduating as I'm sure many have. Like many, I imagine, I naively embarked on an expensive masters degree without fully researching the cost-potential salary until mid way through schooling. My only reason for it then, was the scare tactics of professors. Tellingly the same people who rarely have any real experience (I failed so you will too!) would proffer unpaid or nearly unpaid 'internships' to those foolish enough to think it a compliment.
I've spent the entire time I've worked constantly searching to understand the reason behind the 'dismal' pay in the industry.
Several others have made some good points but I wanted to add a few more.
First we don't get paid that poorly. As a technically 'entry level' employee I'm making more than anyone in my blue collar family ever has. (Though I have a pile of debt I could have picked a cheaper school and been in the same position). Also there are plenty of higher ups as some have noted who make a very decent 6 figure salary, hitting that 135k mark plus a hefty bonus. They tend to be partners/high ranking project managers but it's entirely doable if you're willing to work for it and you don't necessarily need to start your own practice.
Comparing our profession to others is problematic. I know people in all the below and have researched quite a lot.
Doctors don't have it as easy as we'd like to think. I read a case study comparing lifetime earnings of a doctor to a public school teacher. In total it nearly evened out. That is doctors of all creed have a bigger mountain of debt than any architecture/teaching grad could amass. They spend 4 full years interning making peanuts. Once they are on their own they work upwards of 12 hour days pushing the hourly rate way down. They have endless insurance and overhead fees we don't (equipment speciality personnel legal etc). This is all beside the fact that it's an incredibly stressful profession and the burnout rate is high for the few admitted entry to begin with.
A lawyer comparison has its own host of issues. Again throw in 60+ hour work weeks on the regular. A key point is that there are hundreds of thousands of unemployed licensed lawyers who just don't make it. Ever. And wind up at non profits or as accountants, consultants etc. Again the work is highly stressful and generally unfun for the mind of someone who went into architecture.
Bankers are another easy target. Honestly if one isn't already wealthy/well connected the odds of striking it big are slim to none. The vast majority of them make about as much as any architect but still pull long nights for decades. Anything extra they might earn, they blow on expensive crap to keep up appearances. It's rare for an unconnected person to move up far. The rich bring in other rich clients like in any field but to an extreme. Also their entry level jobs are top of the list to be wiped out by robots so be grateful we're on the opposite end.
A productive comparison is engineers. Sure they only need 4 years of school and take 1 test instead of 6, and start out earning slightly more. But take a look at project management roles. The numbers start to even out (eng vs arch) and architects are in demand for these roles at hybrid companies. Sure the work isn't glamorous but neither is being a doctor lawyer or banker. Keep in mind most engineers work on upwards of 20 projects at a time and do very little with each within their speciality. They generally have little to no control of the project parameters (excluding civil or aero which also doesn't pay that much more at the higher ranks though it's more interesting) and they rarely interact with clients.
The major problem I keep hearing from the internet/archinect is in the profession having lost pieces and parts over the years. Construction managers and real estate developers are relatively new roles. They are a by product of mass production and the architectural profession's refusal to embrace the 'boring' stuff in favor of 'art'. Someone pointed out the other issue of architects simply not demanding more pay and constantly working free hours for a 'perfect' design. There is inherent value in having a live work balance which actually adds to efficiency and mental clarity in the workplace. What contributes more to this problem is droves of art school wannabes getting architecture degrees thinking it's somehow interchangeable or that even art isn't a business at its core.
If you want to play with someone else's money as we do you need to follow the financier's rules. If you want to make your own rules, save up, live responsibly, move companies for better pay doing something less 'interesting' so you can save, and take out a loan to do your own development project.
It's high time we as a profession begin to take back our share of the pie from the ever encroaching construction managers and developers (not to mention the interior designers). Roles the architect used to fill (which we are quite qualified for should we apply) and fees which are now dispersed with us often getting the least.
It is my hope that the forlorn most debt laden generation in history (millennials as we are obnoxiously dubbed) will put the many pieces of the puzzle together and recoup the loss of fees out of pure need for survival if nothing else. I've read quite a few others thinking along the lines that I have been- architecture: a mix of design, business development and construction. Make a decent living while enjoying your work and positively impacting the community.
Yes Architect make a little amount of money. In my experience I used to work as a site engineer in a construction company and I was the project manager. Then I started thinking to return back to design industry which is Architect. I found out many people they do love draw and design. they could get a diploma for 10 months and start working in the industry. The number of drafters and designers who could use our software are increasing yearly. Second, Architect should has his own office, work as a freelancer or in his business to start earning. Successful Architect should has his own website to introduce his or his company achievements. Otherwise you would earn the same amount or a bit more than Drafter. My suggest is to start thinking about how to start a business in your industry. "our industry could bring you to the top when you get to know the technique". love what you do.. And all the best for you :)
Becuase what most architects think their service is, is recreating the wheel like they were fought in school. Most clients aren’t asking for that thus they are only willing to pay for a copy paste job. Architects then try and provide above and beyond becuase they think that’s their value, providing good design. In reality their value in that situation is a solid set of coordinated drawings that can be built efficiently. Since the architect was so wrapped up in burning the budget making a bunch of sketchup renderings they shit our terrible drawings and the builder takes the lead in coordinating, VE-ing and otherwise accomplishing the project.
Medical and legal get all the
workaholics who would be doing great anywhere. Architecture gets all
the artists who consider actual work selling out. There is no money
in being an artist unless you're going after the extreme high end
that can afford (and actually wants to) put artistic value at the top
of their priority list, and that is a very tiny niche that fills up
quickly.
Also, at a hospital, only the people
who are going to be diagnosing diseases and performing surgeries have
to have medical degrees. There is a whole separate training program
for nurses who perform all the routine tasks. But a lot of
architecture firms insist that people who are going to be drafters
and will not be in charge of designing anything be licensed
architects – maybe the schools are churning out too many graduates.
Nov 23, 18 11:21 am ·
·
randomised
Architecture school is a business, what's in the best interest of the school is not necessarily in the best interest of society or even the student.
Why do architects make so little money?
actually i make a little over that, but not much. plus, i'm still trying to put the nail in the coffin of the ARE, almost there.......
no, i'm not from serious cash, nor am i well connected. i just work hard, do quality work, and people notice it.
I'm not sure what all the fuss is about either.
Architect friends of mine around my age (early thirties) are doing just fine, from boutique firms to big corporate ones.
A friend of a friend who works for a well known corporate firm (with a 3 letter acronym) just got a $25K holiday bonus. There's plenty of money to be made in this profession, it just depends of what your priority is...
Your friend has been working at this firm for how long? and in what capacity?
Today, I left the home/office at 8:30 and returned around 5:00. I never made a dime, but I had one hell of a day. Poking around this old building, which is a bakery. There was a stream of people moving thru there today. The Area Health Sanitarian, Bakery Equipment Guys, Tile Subcontractor, Heating Contractor, various carpenters, ceiling sub-contractor, computer guy, and the owner.
Lots and lots of action, good action....things coming together.
Looking across the top of a 5'-0 X 12'-0 long maple butcher block bread table, just refinished....oh what a beautiful site.
Listening to the banter between the Sanitarian and the Bakery Equipment Guy, as they say Priceless. Everyone respecting one another in the very best way.
After all settles away the owner and myself drive off to another location where he has the carved oak cafe counter which I have been hearing about for months. 15' feet of oak glory....almost wet my pants....cause it is so beautiful...
Ah....hell with making alot of money.....knowing I can help bring a few great loaves of bread to the people.....by helping a small businessman make his dream come true. I do know one thing when the day is done.....their will always be a free loaf of bread waiting for me as long as his door is open, along with a great deal of respect for a job well done. So go drive your porche.....cause you will never find the finer meaning of life racing down the road at 160 mph.
supersupao, he's been there for about 7-8 years and is a project manager on some pretty big projects. Works his arse off....
I couldn't agree more. Also don't understand much of the whining about money. We make decent wages, everyone. Welcome to the working world. It ain't given to you. Do you see architects living in public housing? No. Do you see architects wearing Old Navy clothes and shopping at WalMart--not by choice? No. Stop being so snobby about your money.
I eat peanuts. But that's by choice.
Ahh, but do you eat honey roasted, or just them regular nuts??
Worse... I eat unsalted dry roasted. I love salt, but peanuts are so good on their own.
But raw almonds ae the best. I can done afford that.
One of the first things I put on my parents' grocery list was raw almonds. Actually, it was the very first thing. Second was a whole lot of fruit and cheese. mmm... there are some advantages to living at home. Someone else pays the grocery bill!
I'll be rght over.
and artichokes. I don't know whether those are fruits or vegetables but they were high up on the list.
Maybe architects make plenty of money but just have expensive tastes.*
*actually I really do think this is part of the "problem"
* I agree 100%.
myriam,ya know I gift very expensive things to women.
very expensive... like grapefruits?
Ha ha yeah not oranges. Phhh...
mangos
no myriam... passionfruits
i tried a recipe for an artichoke risotto i found on the food section of the newspaper...that thing called for pecorino romano, artichokes with one inch diameter stems, pinot grigio, and arborio rice...
the last raw almond i ate cost me a thousand bucks as it broke my fricking tooth.
vado, you're falling apart.
because only a few architects can design well. Most only talk, but can't back them up. Remember, let you speak for itself.
"Maybe architects make plenty of money but just have expensive tastes."
or we just have to live in expensive places...if i lived anywhere outside of ny making what i do, i'd be completely set.
but who needs to actually live anywhere anyway, maybe i'll make the big downgrade in apartments and become homeless.
wow. gone for two days and already this thread is packed. I guess I touched a nerve with this topic. Glad to hear I'm not the only one thinking about this, although it started to deteriorate at the end there. im eating roasted almonds as im reading this. mmmmmm
I don't think architects are underpaid, I think many others are severely OVERpaid (bankers, brokers, professional athletes, to name a few).
Anyone agree?
deteriorate? Naww, it only got much, much better!
And Strawbeary, I agree.
Architects should study some business in architecture school. Make certain business electives mandatory in college.
Marketing, Micro-economics, Real Estate Valuation...
Just "Marketing" alone will save the industry somewhat from undercutting each other.
The concept of "Positioning". You cannot be all things to everybody. You need to position yourself. When you don't position yourself, the only business advantage then becomes price. Apple and BMW doesn't give a shit if their phones/cars are more expensive. Price is what you pay, value is what you get. If you are a Toyota, be the economical option - Low price, high volume. Or you can be the premium option - high price, low (sales) volume. But you cannot be both at the same time.
If architects don't understand Real Estate Valuation, how can they design something VALUABLE as what THE MARKET wants? (What the market wants, not what you want. What the market wants is what they will pay a premium for, and it is the only leverage you have for your services.). What is a "Grade A" office space? I was shocked to see none of my directors could answer me when I asked while working in a commercial firm. Yet, these are terminology that property developers use. We HAVE control over it, but we as designers just choose to ignore it. We should leverage it. Make $.
Economics - know how a market works. How pricing is determined in the market with no central committee determining them.
Pareto Principle (Law of Diminishing Marginal Returns) in Economics - it will stop the (unnecessary) all-nighters. Which means to say, 80% effort is somewhat ideal. Anything more than that, you are not being efficient. Because the graph for effort-to-returns is an S-curve.
Sales - you can't really "learn" sales from a class unless you apprentice and do it in a sales team.
But the ability to sell your design, your firm, your expertise to the client is so crucial. Why choose you? Why choose a design over another one? Whatever you learned in crit sessions in school is not applicable in the Board Room at the Property Developer's office. You need to subtly suggest (not tell) the client why are you worth paying the money, why the design is worth the money invested and why they shouldn't go for the cheap option.
These things need to be skillfully implanted into the client's mind step by step. It is not automatic. (Marketing falls under "passive selling". Active selling is you going out there to convince the client he should choose a design that is more expensive but is good for him, as opposed to the cheap and ugly option which is not good for him. This takes SKILL. Because you cannot just talk down on your client. You must lead him into this conclusion himself. Don't be a used-car salesman. I recommend SPIN selling by Neil Rackham. I used his principles in negotiating with a Managing Director (the client) to trial our firm's innovative design option. It was innovative, but the client saw it as an untested solution - a risk. (She eventually did not use it, but I was already off the team and had no continual working relationship with this client.) Our Director (and Associate Director) were dumbfounded in the meeting when the client questioned our expensive and untested design option with a negative reaction. We worked really hard. There was an uncomfortable silence, and although I was supposed to be the guy who was there only to carry the presentation boards and the directors were there to sell the design, I just had to speak up. The client agreed partially (to trial with a full scale mockup on the south wing) instead of flat out rejection because I opened my mouth the right way. I earned the respect of my Director. The point is: Sales skills are important.
Calm down junior. Most senior to intermediate architects a decent handle of what you list.
HA! No they don't.
Your mileage may differ, but I've certainly not of the same opini on as the wanker above.
Architects are paid just fine. It's the effort vs pay that's out of whack. However this is totally self inflicted through a self masturbation education, needless redesigns at work to chase a perfect design, ridiculous work flows made by architects and PM's who can't even print from modern software and attention to detail in renderings and presentations that no client cares the slightest for.
It's a 10-year old thread.
Your a 10-year old thread.
*dammit! You're
awesome!
I think the pay thing is pretty funny. I've gone through 4 jobs in the past 4 years, been working for about 10, 6 total firms. I made roughly the same amount for the first 6 years or so, but once I decided to demand better, my pay and responsibility level has risen quickly.
because when a client asks about structure and MEP, zoning, and code we all have consultants rather than actually knowing that stuff. Clients like answers, not a middleman.
Really? Code and zoning consultants? That's sad. I do all my own and even dictate a large portion of M&E's scope. Gota keep them p.eng on a tight leash. But you're at least right about the client looking for answers. We've got a big repeat client and he'll chew you up live if you don't have good answers on the spot. Good thing for me is that I can roll qith the questions. My mechanical guy can barely keep up.
It's decent pay and lifestyle as a freelancer where I can work my own hours. I have a newborn and go to doc's appointments often. The doc's make more than me obviously but I can sense their jealousy when they ask what I do and I say architecture and interior design. (Like HGTV?, they ask. Sometimes I say I don't know what HGTV is, ha.)
Maybe I should get into freelancing...the flexible hours sound great.
I'm an employee in a small-ish design-build firm and the pay is also decent.
But this is what I will never understand:
Number of Licensed Architects: 110,000
Number of Licensed Lawyers: 1,315,000
Number of Licensed Doctors: +1,000,000
And yet, we make far less than both professions.
Everybody needs doctors.
Lawyers only exist to create a need for lawyers.
Nobody needs architects. We're like cosmetic surgery.
"Nobody needs architects." I guess that is the problem.
The new housing industry has phased us out. But still, through commercial, industrial, institutional, multi-family - shouldn't there be a higher demand for architects. Am I missing something?
I think people just don't know what architects do. They think we draw some walls and print it out and hand it off. They don't know about the massive amount of paperwork and coordination it takes to make a project really work not to mention the extensive knowledge you must have. That stuff takes a lot of time. Most laypeople think what architects do is what we accomplish at about 75% schematics. "You're done!" They say. We laugh, then cry.
Soo...true.
It's not just architects, but employees in general. To crack the top 10% of income earners you only need to make $135k a year. Not a pittance, but not a fortune either. Which means 90% of income earners make less than $135k/year.
Really rich people don't work for a living.
I've spent the entire time I've worked constantly searching to understand the reason behind the 'dismal' pay in the industry.
Several others have made some good points but I wanted to add a few more.
First we don't get paid that poorly. As a technically 'entry level' employee I'm making more than anyone in my blue collar family ever has. (Though I have a pile of debt I could have picked a cheaper school and been in the same position). Also there are plenty of higher ups as some have noted who make a very decent 6 figure salary, hitting that 135k mark plus a hefty bonus. They tend to be partners/high ranking project managers but it's entirely doable if you're willing to work for it and you don't necessarily need to start your own practice.
Comparing our profession to others is problematic. I know people in all the below and have researched quite a lot.
Doctors don't have it as easy as we'd like to think. I read a case study comparing lifetime earnings of a doctor to a public school teacher. In total it nearly evened out. That is doctors of all creed have a bigger mountain of debt than any architecture/teaching grad could amass. They spend 4 full years interning making peanuts. Once they are on their own they work upwards of 12 hour days pushing the hourly rate way down. They have endless insurance and overhead fees we don't (equipment speciality personnel legal etc). This is all beside the fact that it's an incredibly stressful profession and the burnout rate is high for the few admitted entry to begin with.
A lawyer comparison has its own host of issues. Again throw in 60+ hour work weeks on the regular. A key point is that there are hundreds of thousands of unemployed licensed lawyers who just don't make it. Ever. And wind up at non profits or as accountants, consultants etc. Again the work is highly stressful and generally unfun for the mind of someone who went into architecture.
Bankers are another easy target. Honestly if one isn't already wealthy/well connected the odds of striking it big are slim to none. The vast majority of them make about as much as any architect but still pull long nights for decades. Anything extra they might earn, they blow on expensive crap to keep up appearances. It's rare for an unconnected person to move up far. The rich bring in other rich clients like in any field but to an extreme. Also their entry level jobs are top of the list to be wiped out by robots so be grateful we're on the opposite end.
A productive comparison is engineers. Sure they only need 4 years of school and take 1 test instead of 6, and start out earning slightly more. But take a look at project management roles. The numbers start to even out (eng vs arch) and architects are in demand for these roles at hybrid companies. Sure the work isn't glamorous but neither is being a doctor lawyer or banker. Keep in mind most engineers work on upwards of 20 projects at a time and do very little with each within their speciality. They generally have little to no control of the project parameters (excluding civil or aero which also doesn't pay that much more at the higher ranks though it's more interesting) and they rarely interact with clients.
The major problem I keep hearing from the internet/archinect is in the profession having lost pieces and parts over the years. Construction managers and real estate developers are relatively new roles. They are a by product of mass production and the architectural profession's refusal to embrace the 'boring' stuff in favor of 'art'. Someone pointed out the other issue of architects simply not demanding more pay and constantly working free hours for a 'perfect' design. There is inherent value in having a live work balance which actually adds to efficiency and mental clarity in the workplace. What contributes more to this problem is droves of art school wannabes getting architecture degrees thinking it's somehow interchangeable or that even art isn't a business at its core.
If you want to play with someone else's money as we do you need to follow the financier's rules. If you want to make your own rules, save up, live responsibly, move companies for better pay doing something less 'interesting' so you can save, and take out a loan to do your own development project.
It's high time we as a profession begin to take back our share of the pie from the ever encroaching construction managers and developers (not to mention the interior designers). Roles the architect used to fill (which we are quite qualified for should we apply) and fees which are now dispersed with us often getting the least.
It is my hope that the forlorn most debt laden generation in history (millennials as we are obnoxiously dubbed) will put the many pieces of the puzzle together and recoup the loss of fees out of pure need for survival if nothing else. I've read quite a few others thinking along the lines that I have been- architecture: a mix of design, business development and construction. Make a decent living while enjoying your work and positively impacting the community.
sorry bros... to late but a great decision.
Left Archirltecture last month and having the best time of my life....^-^ so u too...
What you doing?
Yes Architect make a little amount of money. In my experience I used to work as a site engineer in a construction company and I was the project manager. Then I started thinking to return back to design industry which is Architect. I found out many people they do love draw and design. they could get a diploma for 10 months and start working in the industry. The number of drafters and designers who could use our software are increasing yearly. Second, Architect should has his own office, work as a freelancer or in his business to start earning. Successful Architect should has his own website to introduce his or his company achievements. Otherwise you would earn the same amount or a bit more than Drafter. My suggest is to start thinking about how to start a business in your industry. "our industry could bring you to the top when you get to know the technique". love what you do.. And all the best for you :)
Becuase what most architects think their service is, is recreating the wheel like they were fought in school. Most clients aren’t asking for that thus they are only willing to pay for a copy paste job. Architects then try and provide above and beyond becuase they think that’s their value, providing good design. In reality their value in that situation is a solid set of coordinated drawings that can be built efficiently. Since the architect was so wrapped up in burning the budget making a bunch of sketchup renderings they shit our terrible drawings and the builder takes the lead in coordinating, VE-ing and otherwise accomplishing the project.
I believe all architecture students should have some basic courses in business and contract negotiation starting in Freshman.
Courses should be about how to negotiate and propose small interior remodeling and small addition jobs during the first two years .
The last few years, students should expand to learn about contracts and negotiations on small commercial jobs or SFR.
Medical and legal get all the workaholics who would be doing great anywhere. Architecture gets all the artists who consider actual work selling out. There is no money in being an artist unless you're going after the extreme high end that can afford (and actually wants to) put artistic value at the top of their priority list, and that is a very tiny niche that fills up quickly.
Also, at a hospital, only the people who are going to be diagnosing diseases and performing surgeries have to have medical degrees. There is a whole separate training program for nurses who perform all the routine tasks. But a lot of architecture firms insist that people who are going to be drafters and will not be in charge of designing anything be licensed architects – maybe the schools are churning out too many graduates.
Architecture school is a business, what's in the best interest of the school is not necessarily in the best interest of society or even the student.
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