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Rem demands boycott

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a-f

Yep, of course Nervi would like the beams to be following the curvature of the roof, otherwise there would be a lot of "bending and fiddeling" at the connection beam/roof, like with 3D-H.

Jan 25, 07 1:43 pm  · 
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PerCorell

a-f you Know , that if 3D-H is bended only then there will be problems assembling it , there are no trouble assembling the 3D-H structure, contrary fighting the materials form and in detail decide the volums , Binging it with a Huge Hammer --- would it then do a difference if this was done in real or schetched on a 3D piece of paper. Now making Lego building more and more efficient is bound to end with a square, the presant is just one direction to develob efficient production of all sorts of things. --- 3D-H is smarter for a whole lot of things, architecture among these Go make a space station in river stones be build a rocket in bricks Gee ofcaurse 3D-H would be perfect blueprinted to assemble space safe building volume.

A paragime shift , the sudden discovery of the fire the same impac, why shuldn't that happen ,why shuld it be strange if computers acturly could build a house at a third the cost and in a compleatly different fasion. this time not only the warmth of the fire as as a nice side effects ,now this time ,the first digital tool to make space ships on location --- silentio , 3D-H will deliver that , transport the first assembly robot into space then even I (PHWSSA) would suggest a workable spacelift.
As long it is allowed in the forbidden building method I will throw workable sketch.
Try that in Concrete or try it in bricks it will fail, they will not send bricklayers to the Moon.

Jan 25, 07 3:05 pm  · 
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Per, it's called egg crate, you didn't invent it, people use it all the time, if it were forgotten tomorrow, it'd immediately get rediscovered by the next architecture student to get within five feet of a laser cutter. Get over it.

Jan 25, 07 4:47 pm  · 
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PerCorell

Eh ???

http://www.google.com/patents?id=8hhPAAAAEBAJ

Jan 25, 07 8:33 pm  · 
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PerCorell

Now I know what you mean -- egg crate for square eggs , mut realy this is not what the tread is about ;

Jan 26, 07 6:15 am  · 
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French

Indeed
It was about Rem boycotting giant superstar competitions. By the way, has anybody noticed how more and more provocative his project gets? I mean, this tower project for la defense could have been designed by Albert Speer himself, not to mention the boxy Gazprom not-so-much a tower project. I think he is angry and tired because whenever he thinks he is getting to the point where something really impressive will get built, it's either cancelled, refused by the client or given to Renzo Piano to get something built, even if it's just the same old efficient, good looking but sort of boring kind of architecture....

Jan 26, 07 7:03 am  · 
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PerCorell

When you call for a revision with these resons it shuld be obvious that you put yourself in focus rather than the issue.
And it is true that the intire competition system is fundamentaly rotten , but there are so many nasional and internasional rules for these competitions ,beside anyone can calculate this from any bigger competition ; how on earth can it again and again happen that the same ones win or get the goodwill prices , ---- you don't have to be paranoid to reconise that with a competition with say 200 entries then the top 50 will all be equal quality then how come, it is allway's the academics and in a particular order , that get the first second and third price and allway's the perifere top grade student that get the good will prices --- Now you proberly also put me in focus and doubt my resons for this critic , but when this woth on nasional plane in each contry where the settled academica forced their influence upon every serious competition, and the results is that the progress and visions are kept within particular circles, then how do you expect these facts to influence internasional competitions ; these competitions all have crome plated words to ensure fresh winds blowing but it newer happen , and any artist in denmark know that the yearly prices are allway's given by the rules of the academic barometer ; artists who don't even ask for founds are again and again given the good will prices even they didn't ask, while evolving arts count minus on the academic barometer --- With Rem's origine I personaly would newer trust his intentions , I would newer trust the danish architects org, fame Dutch favourists , I simply heard so much dull talks and weaving academic circle nonsense over the years and seen how perifere artists without their own engagement been chosen for yet another good will price, ---- the basic competition system are simply bottom rotten but I do not think it is those who graduated with a gold spoon in their mouth that shuld complain , --- this system simply corrupted by core academic arogance towerds the very same crome plated words , that shuld ensure the fresh air.

Jan 26, 07 7:42 am  · 
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Archigod

Vindpust, please elborate on the set academics and how they control competition. Who are they? How do they control what and why would they do that? And, is this good or bad? Are they unfair in their practice and how? Can't it be challenged?

I have a feeling that you rather hold a romantic 19th century of idea of an untouchable elite, without really elaborating on they are structured and therewith how it can be changed. Do you think it is possible that this kind of Dr. Evil elite only exists in your head? Perhaps triggered by an exclusion?

I think that the image your given is that 'academics' first of all can't be 'artistic' and second are automaticly inferior to them. I think it is a bit naive to think that 'academics' would never listen to good ideas. Maybe it would be a good idea for the artists to get up to speed and compete with the 'academics'. If their ideas really are good and presented well, I really think they will be heard. Most 'academics' I know are pretty openminded people and the image you present isn't very openminded since you despise all academia.

By the way it were the 'settled architects' who stepped out of the Gazprom jury. Try to have some faith. Many of the starchitects weren't born with a golden spoon in their mouth but worked very hard to get there position. Just like you can do. It is not fair to acuse people of things just because you failed at them.

Jan 28, 07 5:29 am  · 
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PerCorell

"Vindpust, please elborate on the set academics and how they control competition. Who are they? How do they control what and why would they do that? And, is this good or bad? Are they unfair in their practice and how? Can't it be challenged?"

I think it will be difficult to challance , they are theoretics more than practicians ,some are themself artists but allway's from the wide middle of the amature academic based arts --- it don't realy mean anything if they sell a picture , it don't realy mean anything that their hero's are architects from 80 years ago as they are teachers anyway , and as allway's computers are something that was not used by the greandious so why support autodidacts who dare say thei make art when THAT is not art , no I do not think and last time I checked it was cirtainly not the new tools the new architecture it was about and I seen , participated contests that loudly seeked out the (grandious dull acadimic words about the Digital) cutting edge artists did not have a chance not if they was autodidact not if their tools was digital, not if they seriously took the computer apart put it back together again and then used it as the tool it is.
Anyway I promised myself to answer your serious questions --- no the sustems are allready made so that no one shuld think it could be corupted but thy are, proberly becaurse it is the same selected group of judges that circulate , proberly becaurse the judges are chosen so that there newer will be an artist among them who did newer profit from the social goods of artistry and academics.


"I have a feeling that you rather hold a romantic 19th century of idea of an untouchable elite, without really elaborating on they are structured and therewith how it can be changed. Do you think it is possible that this kind of Dr. Evil elite only exists in your head? Perhaps triggered by an exclusion?"

You perhaps and yes most proberly --- but that is just the thing you need to acturly test the system, or wouldn't you say ? I mean if not I would just be one who forces to get my mouthfull wouldn't I.
But Dr.Evil do not exist in my head only , beside I don't think these are evil people , they are just well fed and academic and their entrance to arts are newer that one of the real artist, --- for most they could just aswell had a job within administration.many allready have. --- So no see, in Dk. for dusins of years you could follow the same and same group get all the supports even a truck full of skilled young artists forced the reality to deliver more, but newer newer newer would you see one outside the selected circle get even the spoils, whith these --- when the budget was nearly used --- some old friend allway's was given the spoils often one and the same year after year and allway's one who did not file. And yet today you see the hollow cry for spetacular exebitions newer the distribuation of the near or the quality, the celebrated allway's those with a huge production newer the one who do a painting in tree years, allway's the ones who can fuel arts as a celebrated roadshow and their creations ; Well I am not an architect and I can allow myself to have an oppinion about art so, their works well ---- please ,even I shuld not afford the comford I am not goung to use dull words to exchouse the silli canvas , no I am outside these obvious circles and you shuld rather apriciate my critic , just by my fact role ---- but I don't think it is nessery to point fingers ; there are plenty to point to, how museums and academic rule, the fact it don't mean anything if you have tallents, visions or skills as long as you share the social comford and can there allway's be enough dull words to cover the fact --- the result of this system that from the start was visionary but soon got corrupted by academic interests , by combining museums and academic interests ------- to answer your question , do you think yourself ,that art is what hang on the walls of the museums and artists are those dead guy's who made those paintings on the walls of the museums ?


"I think that the image your given is that 'academics' first of all can't be 'artistic' and second are automaticly inferior to them. I think it is a bit naive to think that 'academics' would never listen to good ideas."

Well I tried for years --- a new fantastic, visionary acturly working method, that allow computers to work in a yet unseen way ; now I participated many contests where the call was for exactly these digital visions and may I address myself ; I acturly made it work combining the crafts and the science , I did point to both picturs and text --- but I guess that was not art, anyway ; And please interpatate thiis as you want, but with the contests I participated under the danish architect administration, my projects was allway's hung upside down, left in a corner upside down as the only participant, or refused even the only digital based suggestion among 200 others where the computer was there only to plot the drawings, refused becaurse the area was not written on a particular piece of paper, even written on another piece of paper exactly as wanted but the paper being another color, --- there it was no argument that a digital drawing do not need to follow the conventions and linetypes of a 2D drawing No. Dr Evil xist. And I can point to othe competitions; you are welcome to question my privileage to exactly be in the situation where I can give this critic, but it don't change the fact.

"Maybe it would be a good idea for the artists to get up to speed and compete with the 'academics'. If their ideas really are good and presented well, I really think they will be heard. Most 'academics' I know are pretty openminded people and the image you present isn't very openminded since you despise all academia."

Not the ones I know by distance, true many of them are nice people close on, but no ---- you can not argue with academics , they say Nervi allready did it, and omit halve a life works with computers. Among academics there simply are no room for exactly the same hero's of today, who's presessors work 80 years ago they praise. In their mind the computer thruout halve my life been the Devil , the artists who challanced it was denied their work that offcaurse soon would be lightyears ahead refused while it was difficult to understand and, even their own pets talk was dull enough , then even results was at display even halve books was the entries , then no -- Nervi did this while one particular building abong hundreds suggested could show resemblance.

But allow me to rest the discussion ; I will show something that I don't see as art, it is just a grafitti that promote a new building method but, each and every day people walk along and _everyone get a good feeling from it, it is different unique , and from some reson everyone I ask without telling I am the "artist, say that this picture give them something they apriciate ;



You guess right if you think it is much better in real. --- See that is my "art" but I newer expect academics to apriciate the deepths in it, ordanary people passing , on the other hand they apriciate some even highly.

"By the way it were the 'settled architects' who stepped out of the Gazprom jury. Try to have some faith. Many of the starchitects weren't born with a golden spoon in their mouth but worked very hard to get there position. Just like you can do. It is not fair to acuse people of things just because you failed at them."

I don't feel the stararchitects failed me --- they failed architecture and brought architecture the cold edgy , spetacular architecture that is not the quality architecture that today shuld be delivered ; they failed those hundred of thousands who lost homes , by staying with containers for 40 years, aided by academics with no interest other than supporting the board. No I blame the ones who shuld support the newbreaking and bold, the obvious unique and newer before seen ---- true I blame them as I newer seen one word supporting what architecture shuld deliver --- the humble hard work , the cheap nice houses no, that was newer the agenda. This is as you recon not about me, I have grown up and know what it consist of, I realised from contest after contest no , it is not the stararchitects that shall be blamed , they just pray from artists who will newer get a chance .

Sorry I don't feel I can come it any closer , See I belive in other values and I payed my price for my privileage m you see I am or been closer to the celebrated than you might think, and as you guess it is easy to down my work , to say my visions and results are not art is not architecture -- you see there are a whole crowd who wouldn't like my stories.

Jan 28, 07 8:15 am  · 
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PerCorell

P.s.

"Many of the starchitects weren't born with a golden spoon in their mouth but worked very hard to get there position. Just like you can do."

No I can not, that's where you are wrong --- the intire system support the opposite of what I tried to share and deliver, there are no room for the artist for whom money is not the fuel, for those few who started when the computer was the Devil but stayed with the challance , I am not an architect but a designer and nomatter the answer and the real vision would have been new building technikes and a change in production, then what hold these competitions in the air is the expertations for the stararchitect not the call for openly sharing good idears and recivint the honest credits , artists like I would never have a chance to ever make my bread by my visions see, I am not an architect and my years with them , don't realy fuel my drive to become one.

Beside REM proberly shuld be glad to recive the challance, --- if he are that great an artist he must have learned how to turn the table, how to use this to enforce other qualities, ralise the changes and deliver to concour. I did why shuldn't he.
------- If I was an architect I would ask myself what other messeage lay therin , I seriously would examine the expertations for this contest and ask myself if architecture realy do profit from such projects, ask if this is better than try to deliver where architecture and sharing mean the whole difference. Realy I would see this as a warning , a pointer that I lost my trail , I to proberly would call for a boycut . But I would not make that my desteny , I would look again at the "messeage ,and then start think about what architecture shuld realy deliver and if the reson I was rejected could be, that architecture must change m truely I would blame others but I would also look to see if this was a pointer to change my own perception, turn the table.

Jan 28, 07 11:16 am  · 
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PerCorell

Ok then let's try turn it but not nessery the way REM want ;

See what I find wrong is not the intire thing but this paragraf and that paragraf ---- with the realy big contests it simply shuld be not allowed with a fee , this fee is what filter out the projects that could have challanced the settled crowd and ontop I guess a few reconised "competitions" where you wonder if a 100 Eur fee, is all what the competition is about --- as long as this is "allowed" accepted , there will be competitions for only the celebrated and competitions that is fraud to get the money put down just to participate.

Now there proberly be other paragraphs , but if this tread shal deliver, then what about taking the thing apart and put it together in a way where it work.

Jan 30, 07 6:28 am  · 
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