All i know is, I'm 21, and if my boss offered me 20% overtime I'd still be there at 7:30 at night and I HATE that job (i'm currently working at an insurance company over winter break). If I actually managed to get an internship in NYC that offered that I'd probably only leave the office to go to class and sleep. I'd much rather CAD till my eyes bleed than spend another minute in the insurance business, even if it is detailing a window.
i will chime in a little here - too busy with SP and ME to give a whole hell - i did at my last job go above and beyond, asked for more responsibility, had other members in my firm - same level - tell partners at reviews, that they did NOT want more responsibility, and to give it to me, and you know what happened? i moved to Saint Paul, MN. albeit i had my own motivations to wanting more responsibilty, mostly self serving, but i think i earned it, i was passing exams, working on prime - if you can call it that - work in the office, managed standards, doled out work, coordinated dwgs, did this did that and was a valued asset to the firm.
the problem as i see it is what principals think "responsibilty" is and what it is not. if i was going to be given responsibilty for a project and then have to sit in monday morning meetings trying to justify why this project was over budget, because of the fee and hours YOU negotiated, then perhaps bringing me in EARLY in the process - negotiation of fee, working on the contract, and scheduling of time [you know get my input as to what i think i and others can accomplish for that fee] is not only prudent but a necessary part of me accepting that responsibility.
you might be negotiating me into a nightmare scenario where the possible and likely result is my failure, but if at least i am brought in early i can at least voice some strategies on how to make it work for everyone, and manage my own expectations as well as yours.
location matters, as discussed ad nausium in lots of different threads. if your firm is located in the suburb, my urban bias says that you'd have a harder time finding the motivation of urban core seeking young-uns.
invest in your employees with training and professional development events. this is one of the great features of my current firm.
sit down with each employee and map out personal goals and the route to acheive them. then enable the cadmonkeys to move on up by balancing your needs as a tyrant/bossman and their goals. If you explain why you need them to do something boring and tedious, and then throw them a few bones that are what they want- moral/motivation will improve bigtime...
Jan 2, 07 8:44 pm ·
·
Originally...
"Please God, don't let Steve Lauf publish this picture." 2001.10.02
As if youngin's somehow have a monopoly on being unmotivated. From where I'm sitting there's still a whole lot for them to learn in that department.
archie
i still have much difficulty self-actualizing.
also, i don't respond well to jabs and disrespect.
"That's my only real motivation is not to be hassled; that, and the fear of losing my job. But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired."
Jan 2, 07 9:27 pm ·
·
Here's some major league lack-of-motivation:
At the second to last office I worked for I didn't even bother to pick up my final pay check.
At the last office I work for I was there 15 days, 5 of which I called in sick, and then I just didn't go in anymore. One of the partners called to see if I was coming in, and I simply answered no. I think I left a final paycheck there too. As I suspected, they needed the money more than me anyway.
The desire to have a good (great) project is what motivates me. Perhaps I picked up this personality trait from the few years that I sat on the owner's side of the table. Today I find myself going the extra mile and doing everything in my power to ensure that the project goes as smoothly.
Case in point: my project team (owner, GC, architect) received an email last Friday night from a sub-contractor stating that he had not received a response to his RFI and was thus going to proceed to fabricate the building component a certain way (the wrong way). Knowing that it would ruin my holiday weekend (via mental torment) if I did not act upon the information, I went into the office at 9 pm to craft a response and sketches. Mind you, I had not received the RFI formally from the GC, so I was not obligated to respond. However, if I had not responded, the pieces would have been fabricated improperly, and there would be more problems down the road. Thus, I thought it would be in the best interest of the PROJECT for me to answer the RFI because I knew the GC would not step-up to solve the situation.
Maybe I'm just stupid. Whatever the case, I think there is such a thing as being over-motivated to the extent of burn-out. So, archie, please take care of your motivated employees once you get them, and make sure that you don't ask TOO much of them.
Everyone here is bringing up some very interesting points. In the interest of full disclosure, let me identify myself as part of the 'unmotivated/guilty' under 30 crowd - I'm 29. First, I definetly think that what some people are dancing around and implying, basically that the current generation of under 35's or so are somewhat lazy and unmotivated, is a fairly true assessment. It's sad but true. For the most part, I'm fairly disgusted with my peers, and they are spoiled, which in turn tends to make them unmotivated. I think it has something to do with the way people my age were raised by their parents. They were raised to think they are the center of the universe. Granted, this is a gross generalization, but one I have found to be very true. Specifically, with regards to architecture, I think a large reason that many new architects/interns/people fresh out of school seem unmotivated is because they really don't want to be architects. The problem arises from the fact that people are herded right out of high school, into a college, where they decide to be architects, but haven't had any life experience, so they are making a career choice on shaky ground. I think this problem is way more common than people imagine or admit. We can all agree that the road to becoming an architect is a long and arduous one. It takes quite bit of schooling to get your cred. People choose this path at 18, and then 6-7 years down the road, they find that have 'grown up', or basically have seen something of adult life, and they are very different people than they were at 18. They are different people, but at this point they have invested so much time and money into becoming an architect that they don't have a choice, they basically have to go one with a career they may have very little interest in at this point in their lives. I think that's a huge reason for the perceived lack of motivation that Archie and others are experiencing. It's unrealistic to expect an 18 year old person to choose a career path that requires such a huge time commitment. I'll cite myself as an example. Right out of high school, I went to engineering school, graduated 5 years later and began working. After two years of working in the field, I knew my heart wasn't in it, because I had 'grown' up in the passing years, and wasn't interested in the same career I chose when I was 18 and had limited life experience. That's why I'm in architecture school now. I'm older, I've lived life and I know what I'd like to do and what type of career will me happy. In architecture school, I feel that I have a huge advantage over my peers because I'm about 8 years older than most of them, and I'm absolutely certain that it's the career I want. Many of these kids are clueless, and just decided that becoming an architect would be 'cool', or 'respectable', or a shortcut to a well paying professional job. They don't know what they want, they're too young. These are the kids that will end up shirking over time at Archie's firm. People thinking of going into a professional career with a long road of schooling and internships should be encouraged to take a few years off between high school and college so they can live life a bit and have a better idea what's out there.
i am over 35. my business/design partner is under 35. we get along fine. age don't matter.
i have been supporting myself since i finished high school when i was 17...that was normal where i grew up. but i had been working since i was 14, so wasn't much of a transition...also paid for uni myself and all the rest...blahblah blah whatever. old news.
i only bring it up cuz my partner did none of the above, and seems none the worse for it. we both ended up, foreigners both of us, in tokyo (which may or may not be significant) on scholarship to do phds, and we both wanted (and still want) to do cool things. so that is what we are working on. not sure if motivation really comes into it, at least not in the sense that is hinted at above.
as far as being an employer...we have tried to find young people to work with us on various projects, but in our uni, even the 20 year olds are working far too hard (mostly for starchitects, or for their profs) and we can't lure them away to work for us at the pay we can offer...at our school most of the kids are motivated beyond reason and live and breath architecture like it was prescious air. so we are a bit stuck for the opposite reasons to yorn. our only hope is to become absurdly famous quickly so that some cool kids will deign to work for us...am only half kidding.
as an aside, my partner is very clear about the idea that our future staff (fingers crossed it comes to that) should all be encouraged to work for us for a few years and then move on to bigger and better things (or become partners in our office). We don't want hangers on. which is i think an idea borne of his dutch perspective. being north american myself, i first found the idea a bit odd, but am now convinced he is right. it would be fantastic to have a great group of young kids doing very good work for us and then move on to become the future competition. it would keep us and our work fresh.
In America I think the attitude is to keep people complacent.
maybe in the past, the drafting floor weeded people out better.
ochona said this, and it had been something I was thinking of putting down as well. I do believe motivation is mostly a combination of genetics and of how you were raised--particularly if you were raised by hard-working parents who expected a lot from you. But motivation seems to come to some later in life, as well. Perhaps good mentorship can in some ways replace bad parenting? I'm not sure.
Archie, as for your example above--it's quite shocking, I cannot imagine treating an employer this way. I can't even imagine going into a work meeting and *not* taking notes, even if everyone else was too and I hadn't been specifically asked to produce meeting notes. What would I do in a meeting if not take notes??? Absurd.
Have you asked this employee about his/her motivation?
firstly, and aside from the usual mutually inconveient but expected 'gaining experience' bit, i find the division you make between old and young in terms of sense of responsibility and competence as nearly ridiculous as that between man and woman, white and black. actually, your generalizing 'ye young' antagonism might very well be what this younger person is picking up on. maybe s/he should be invited to post about what they percieve on their part. In retrospect, you might also learn something, inspite of the 'you can't teach old dogs new tricks'.
As opposed to archinect-nag, try to talk to the intern herself. And if you're still not satisfied with her work and you are a god at your firm, fire her...but please, if you must construe a holier-than-thou taxonomy of humans keep it to yourself.
hmmmm...... What motivates me?.........I just love the work. The process of getting there. The "HOW" Although I do like the end result its the work in btw that I love. I'm still a student but I also have been working construction since high school. I guess the experience of actually "doing" has helped me to appreciate the "creating" process of it.
as for my own motivations - (sim. to DCA) my main motivation to do it right/good is to avoid trouble down the road.
- wanting to succeed/excell for personal reasons (instilled in me by my upbringing)
But what may UNmotivate me? I have been unmotivated many times: If I feel I have been set up for failure by the manager: In my earliest days, i would always have to work on the crappiest, most unintereseting projects, the ones that had been in the office for 8 years (not kidding) and gone nowhere but in circles, the ones that were already 80k in the hole for us and every hour i spent on it got us further in the hole, yet I had to do it. Many times I would get excited about a project and a design, only to be told later that the manager didn't give me a key bit of info that makes my design unworkable and the last few days were a waste and it is 2:00 and i have to draw new plans and have them printed by 3:00 to take to the client meeting for a presentation (true story, well they all are). Many times I'd work on a design only to later have the PM tell me that he wanted something different all the while and he even had it already sketched out and I might as well have been practicing my lettering.
emilyrides hit on another thing i agree with, maybe we really don't want to be architects but feel stuck with it. I am there, even though I try to ignore it most days.
" maybe we really don't want to be architects but feel stuck with it" -Strawbeary
i definitely sense that sometimes as well, but then i think...well, if i was an assistant director and i was working on one of the endless- but not longer -series of friends (and i assume thats a really good thing to have on ur cv if u were)..and what will rachel do next???? well, its a completely different profession from that of peter greenaway's. i do believe architecture can be interesting, but no where around me...i can't blame 'Architecture' for being boring...i can blame boring minds for being boring.
Motivation is an organizational issue, not generational one I think.
I don't know that it is fair to say how do you motivate "young 'uns" these days, as if the output of an architectural education these days is somehow less passionate or less hard working than in "the good old days".
I am a young graduate in the field, and I can fully relate to this problem that many people are describing, but I'm not sure that you can pin motivation issues on young new employees.
I think this is a broader issue that relates to organization design, and organizational behaviour. How do you motivate your employees generally? One problem might be hierarchicy, bureaucracy, office politics. "Giving responsibility" is one thing. Dumping landmines and potential train wrecks on those overworked and underappreciated, always looking to discredited employees, play politics when that is the least concern especially of the ones with the least experience but the most enthusiasm who cannot help but try to diffuse whatever comes their way when everyone walks away and turns a blind eye- sure that can be labelled "an opportunity". But the issue is that when an organization has a general culture of landmine + survival rather than comradery + good work, and where communication is ambiguous and feedback always vague so as to maintain the status quo, remind employees of their place, it doesn't instil employee loyalty and passion generally.
It's easy to point a finger when something doesn't work. But that is the problem. Its the "me" mentality and laziness generally. Rather than the "us" work focused mentaility that is necessary to do good work, addressing the problem rather than dumping it on someone else. There's a problem of motivation if everyone young and old is on the verge of abandoning ship... That's just my 2 cents...
I think its partly a social and cultural problem. It's not an excuse, just an observation.
i might be overly sensative here but am i the only one who is a little confused by the assertion that there is something lacking from an ENTIRE generation?
is it not much more likely, that instead of us 'young 'uns' being lazy and uninterested, we are simply not replicates of the previous generation? Acting thinking feeling and working exactly how all you 'old fogeys' did 'back in the day'
responsability motivates... interest motivates... reinforcement motivates... and like LB said up top, trial by fire instills a sense that you're actually needed. give them something important to do, trust them, they will understand failing is not an option. and if they dont, you'll know they arent going to work out.
archie- I haven't read the entire thread so forgive me if someone already stated this. I am an under 35'er-though fastly approaching the cutoff. I consider myself highly motivated and have been extremely successful at my job. But, with that said, I put in overtime only when absolutely needed but not on a constant basis because my home life is important to me...I say on average I may work 4-5 nights overtime in a month, maybe more if it is extremely necessary.
Why do I do this? Why do I not devote everything to my career? Why is my generation considered "lazy"?
Because I watched my grandparents work themselves to death and barely have a home life. Because I watched my dad slave away at a job for 30+ years, working 12 hours + a day and weekends for what? To get laid off after 30 years of work and be out of a job.
My generation has seen companies lay off thousands of workers, so CEO's can make millions and even billions of dollars. People I know have worked their asses off only to be laid off. So what would motivate me to work hard for a company? Compensation and job security-neither of which is readily available in todays world.
So until our country learns to take care of employees and stop shipping jobs overseas or getting rid of someone so they can hire someone else in at a cheaper rate, then you are going to continue to get "lazy" employees.
when i took a break for grad school, i was very clear in telling my firm of 9 yrs that i intended to come back and that i was willing to work part time to hold my place. 'no problem.'
i worked 15-20 hrs/week for the first half of grad school but realized that this wouldn't be a reasonable thing to continue during the thesis. i again talked to the partners and told them that i'd like to take a leave of absence but come back when finished in the spring. 'no problem.'
in the spring i called and set up a meeting with the partners to discuss my reentry. they were dumbstruck. they had assumed that i was pursuing an academic/teaching direction and decided to replace me. they had just hired the week before i called. i was out.
if, at any time during these talks, they had said that i was creating a difficulty for them i would have either reconsidered my decision to pursue school right then or made the decision to leave the firm. but no question was ever raised and certainly no one ever talked to me about any change in direction/further pursuit of academia.
since then, it's been harder for me to commit to positions at other firms. i also feel less motivated and less likely to do extra work - beyond what's expected. i feel sort of not-anchored, like i can be set adrift any old time.
I would have to say that part of the problem has to deal with the sense of entitlement that I see in younger employees.
I find that those that entered the job market in the late eighties/early nineties are much more motivated and work harder/smarter than those that entered in the mid nineties. Anyone that entered the job market in the mid nineties (such as myself) really has not experienced a difficult job market. At least in the NorthEast, the job market has always been an employees market for younger architects.
Home Depot dismissal of the CEO then giving him over $200,000,000 just isn't right. No wonder young architects aren't motivated. It in general sends a message to the finacial aspects
of our social being, "Be a Failure and get Rich."
less than competative pay, no 401K, shitty health care, sitting in front of a computer all day, dealing with the building dept, no stock options, no holiday bonus, no raise in 2 yrs
Well – I have to ask – were the prospective hirees’ portfolios reflecting of work that would definitely show a large amount of commitment? I mean, lets face it – in our profession it seems like the most talented are usually (I said usually people) the most committed – and with the committed comes the idea that a ‘successful’ project is what motivates them. I think I’m very much committed to any project I involve myself in – and to show in any interview, my portfolio shows big projects that were timesaking and very involved. Not saying it was necessarily good or bad, but the point is that it shows a level of commitment …okay – and some traces of perfectionist neurosis. Its similar to what tm11 said – if the hire-ee doesn’t show any sign of commitment to a project’s successful outcome from their inception to the firm, then there’s a large chance that they’re not motivated easily, if at all. And by in large a chance that they’re not that into architecture to begin with.
That’s just from the end of the hiree, but in terms of the organization taking on the employee – it’s a simple idea that branches out to more complex concepts about the organizational breakdown of hierarchy, reward, and recognition for the given project. If a firm doesn’t recognize or reward, then it’ll be hard to find an employee that’s motivated enough to want to give their all for a big fat zero in return.
I agree with Per Corell...communication is key...but also, follow through...
I've had two experiences that led to two different outcomes...
the first, I free-lanced for a professor for a couple of months...it was informal...I started showing up, as the work required...worked as long as the work required...if it was a 12 hour day, I was there, it it wasn't, then I wasn't...we both seemed to understand the needs and responsibilities, and my boss was very clear about timelines without micromanaging me. I really enjoyed it, and would have happily worked there longer, if he had the projects to support me being there. Sadly, didn't work
The other, another professor, academic setting. We had a discussion before I took the job about what my motivations were for staying on and working there, what my goals were and what I wished to accomplish. My boss, at the time, assured me that I would be given the latitude and support to do what I had mapped out. Not one month later, I was being asked to put aside many of my original goals to be her personal assistant - something I had been assured I would not be treated as - and was micromanaged to death. Every decision, every conversation, had to be related, and action could only be taken after the boss had had the say....It is demoralizing to be treated as an idiot...and, believe me, my motivation to do the work my BOSS WANTED waned. Instead, I had to take personal time to pursue my own projects and accomplish the job I was originally told I was hired to do.
It is a two-way street. I like to think that, given the opportunity, I would prove the theory of being a part of an unmotivated generation wrong. My second boss might disagree. But then, the people I worked with would tell you the opposite.
tinydancer is exactly right. if there is any generational issue, it is that our generation understands that labor relations are a two-way street.
if companies are primarily looking out for their stockholders and executives, then we need to primarily look out for ourselves. hey, folks, THAT's real capitalism. every man for himself, right? why bust your ass for the brass ring when they can just take it away right as you ascend the ladder?
this doesn't excuse your intern, archie -- sounds more like a personal problem on the part of your intern. but it does explain, to a certain extent, why we aren't working late when we don't HAVE to, why the competitive bullshit that some managers try to instigate among their younger subordinates just doesn't work, and why we're more likely to bust out on our own, and make our own way, than be company (wo)men all our lives.
i sat in a firm my first year out of school and survived while long-term employees were sacked mercilessly. i survived because i was young and cheap. and the partners still flew first-class to europe and china on tickets purchased with two days' notice.
ain't that the truth...anybody who feels they are underpaid, take solace in that it implies at least a little bit of job security. sadly, as soon as you're making a decent wage, this is when you need to be concerned about being hacked in the next market downturn.
I am amazed that this thread has generated so much interest. I guess you do care! Thanks for all of the good insights. I did not intend to imply that the whole younger generation is a bunch of slackers. I just see a difference in priorities and desire to "get ahead" from my generation, also a lack of conceren about quality, and wondered if it was real or just my perception.
I do see the point of not wanting to spend all of your time at work. I raised kids and did spend too many evenings working on work stuff instead of playing tea party for the 345th time. I don't really expect young people to put in much more than 40 horus per week, but I would expect someone to come in every once in a while and put in extra time to meet a deadline.
The difference that concerns me is caring about the work. My firm pays decent wages. Not like you would get if you were a lawyer, but what architecture firm does? Did anyone get into this profession expecting to make mega bucks? You can make a decent wage at this- I raised a family in the business. I guess it might depend on what your "needs" are too- mine are pretty simple, but I feel like I have made enough money for a comfortable life and a comfortable retirement. But I don't do it for the money. I was always motivated by trying to produce the 'best quality' whatever that meant for the project. Even when I worked for someone else, I found myself waking up in the middle of the night worrying about some problem, or remembering some detail I had to work out. Not that I want my employees to wake up in the middle of the night, but I would like them to be responsible enough to care about what they are doing and really take pride in producing quality.
I realize I have a few people here who are just 'hopeless' and will never reach the level that I want them to attain. These are the ones that don't get the prime projects, don't get the huge bonuses. The will be the first ones to be laid off if things ever get slow. It's just too hard to find ANYONE to work to get rid of them now. It's frustrating for me, because I like to 'mentor' younger architects and see them progress. It has meant that a few have taken off and started their own firms based on what they learned here, but I actually prefer that for some bizarre reason to the ones who linger and never "reach their potential" Blame it on the yuppy phase I lived thru.
One thing which seems to not really have been touched on is if the generation is in fact less motivated, or if the motivated people of the generation have by in large found other fields to go in to.
I am somewhat under the age of 35 so I do not have a very good frame of reference, however the motivation peers in my generation have shown in the fields of computer science seem above and beyond what past generations have shown in other fields.
Another thing older generations have to keep in mind is that frankly the younger generations do not respect them in terms of there business sense. Most people in my generation will tell you it is there parents / bosses generation which has left us being less competitive with the world, the erosion of benifets and pay etc...
PLEASE KEEP IN MIND ON AVERAGE I EARN 17,5% LESS THAN I WOULD HAVE 25 YEARS AGO AND IT HAS ZERO TO DO WITH MY PRODUCTIVITY.
Me myself I consider myself fairly motivated and have never had a problem personally pulling all nighters at work if that is what is required. Reasons for this are I enjoy architecture, and I value that someone has sacrificed greatly to create a job for me to have. When I think about complaining about hours or motivation I just recall I had one real interview for a job coming out of school in seven months of busting my but trying to find one. I also recall I had put in 80 hour work weeks while in high school doing far worse things.
My only real answer though is that motivation comes from within the person. You can not give someone motivation.
As an under 35'er I have a different take. It's not a lack of motivation, but a lack of patience.
Modern society has conditioned us to want everything right away. Everything is so instant from cell phones to ATM's to jet travel. That has filtered down into our trade. Look at craftsmanship of construction. If you are an old fogey you must've noticed the steady erosion of that art.
Same goes for in architecture. Changing from hand drafting to CAD has eroded the quality of CD's. Students are learning programs like AutoCAD and Maya, not architecture. Even the fast tracked world of architecture is too slow to stay interested.
Many years back when I worked for a fellow in a smallish firm I felt like i was the number two guy as I had been there four years or so . things slowed down in the early 90's and all of a sudden i had to take time off just like any other newbie to the office. We elected to share the time off and work 3 days a week for a month and keep the staff but that was a staff decision not the bosses. It was the lowest point of my career ( newly married, first child enroute) I felt like all of a sudden I had no security.
Clearly set my course for getting out of there and plotted a new direction to work for myself. It was a boner move for my boss as he lost a lot of respect from everyone and I think the turnover of staff was pretty big over the next few months. If you run a business especially a small one that's a great deal of money that has to go to learning the ropes which is expensive, and you don't build the skill and experience in the office. ie you can't tackle the bigger stuff, that's fine if you want to be stuck in your garage doing renos your whole life but if he wanted to grow the business its in the interest of the boss to work with people who want to grow.
I think there will always be those who are happy toiling away on details in the back of the office but you also need the young guns to build and stretch the firms capabilities into new areas. The firms that don't do that well really do die. I've seen a ton of the old guard firms who ruled the business when I graduated and won all the big commissions that have basically been eaten by newer younger firms or firms who adapted and have become big and successful ( both in design and business terms) those firms are very impressive and have found a way to be successful and still be the "in Place" for newbies to look for a job.
I know for us its about being entrepreurial with staff and support their desires not necessarily mine. ie technical training , graphics, or or landing a new client. I let them flounder but also give them the support on that when they need it, and they find that motivating.
Many years back when I worked for a fellow in a smallish firm I felt like i was the number two guy as I had been there four years or so . things slowed down in the early 90's and all of a sudden i had to take time off just like any other newbie to the office. We elected to share the time off and work 3 days a week for a month and keep the staff but that was a staff decision not the bosses. It was the lowest point of my career ( newly married, first child enroute) I felt like all of a sudden I had no security.
Clearly set my course for getting out of there and plotted a new direction to work for myself. It was a boner move for my boss as he lost a lot of respect from everyone and I think the turnover of staff was pretty big over the next few months. If you run a business especially a small one that's a great deal of money that has to go to learning the ropes which is expensive, and you don't build the skill and experience in the office. ie you can't tackle the bigger stuff, that's fine if you want to be stuck in your garage doing renos your whole life but if he wanted to grow the business its in the interest of the boss to work with people who want to grow.
I think there will always be those who are happy toiling away on details in the back of the office but you also need the young guns to build and stretch the firms capabilities into new areas. The firms that don't do that well really do die. I've seen a ton of the old guard firms who ruled the business when I graduated and won all the big commissions that have basically been eaten by newer younger firms or firms who adapted and have become big and successful ( both in design and business terms) those firms are very impressive and have found a way to be successful and still be the "in Place" for newbies to look for a job.
I know for us its about being entrepreurial with staff and support their desires not necessarily mine. ie technical training , graphics, or or landing a new client. I let them flounder but also give them the support on that when they need it, and they find that motivating.
Archie,
when you find out what the solution please let me know...seem to be heading down that road myself, u-35 with an obvious shift in focus beyond the work.
I think there is a point to the "employees market" impact on motivation, but I see this a little differently.
I'm not so sure that the employees market leads to a demotivated workforce simply because employees have alternatives exactly.
Rather, I think the problem is that the competitive labour market has actually created a general expectation of turnover by employers and employees alike. I think the key to motivation is the type of collaborative work environment that can only be fostered through a sense of belonging, ownership of work, trust, respect, comradery... people expecting to do good work with others.
If firms don't expect to retain employees, there won't be the loyalty. If employees don't trust and respect one another and expect to build lasting relationships with one another, then they won't do all that they can do.
Capitalism has its shortcomings. Motivation happens collectivey and can be easily sapped by a culture that looks out for number one... The difference is between work (which is a social creative act) and labour (which is an individual act for survival)...
i think these young architects went into the profession with many misconceptions about the profession...but reality is showing them otherwise...
this is going to be a leap...i seems the popularity of considering architecture as mainly art, attracted a different demographic of young people...people who wanted to make art...but the reality of the profession is that it's far from being art, especially during those training years when a young architect is on grunt work, these phases are more about being a craftsman and a builder...i think most young architects wanted to be first and foremost, artists...
autocad and specifying ovens and refrigerators and making door schedules and dealing with the building department is not the work of an artist...and that's a burn out...
only thing that I find motivating is trust, I believe people will raise up to the occasion if you make it clear to them that something depends on them.
You mention that offering pay incentives hasn't motivated your employees. What about advancement opportunities?
My previous post about lack of patience was only 1/2 cynical. I really want a promotion, an advancement of some kind. So I start my ARE's, get LEED AP done, offer to help on anything around the office and ask for more challenging projects. Sure I get the thanks and a pat on the back, but when is the real recognition coming? I think of myself as that motivated employee archie is looking for, but my patience is running thin.
I busted my ass at the last firm I worked for. Worked the 12 hour days and did everything best I could. For that I got a low salary with slim benefits and 3% pay raises for over 3 years. Always being told they expect more from me and that the "payoff" is coming soon. Eventually I got fed up, took that experience elsewhere for a major salary bump, but am still waiting for that promotion I really want. Was I wrong to "start over?" At least the pay raise qualified me for buying a house so I have somewhat a normal lifestyle now.
This architecture profession can be heartbreaking. We are in college anywhere from 5-8 years. Then there's 3+ year of indentured servitude called IDP. After that an enormously long registration exam. A good part of an architect's life is devoted to just "getting there." You mention getting the license 5 years out of college, but you also want young employees to work overtime. Remember young people in the profession have a lot on their plates with the demands of the profession alone. What about the rest of life - marriage, kids, etc.? Don't forget architects have high divorce rates, which I find apalling.
I'm not trying to whine about it, but compare us to the majority of the corporate world. With essentially the same years of schooling a MBA grad can go into the workforce with zero experience and get a 6 figure salary and straight into a management role. Have friends that have done it. Granted architecture could not work that way if we wanted it to, but it seems clear to me why one could get easily frusturated and apathetic about our profession.
i find the broad generalities thrown out about the >35 generation
to be fairly insulting. i'm 33 and have been working long days
for low pay for most of my career. I take responsibility for the
things i do and for mistakes i make. In return my employers have
shown fairly little appreciation...I guess assuming that I should
be content to earn a salary and give them my time. I work from 9-8
every weekday...i don't come in on weekends unless there's a HUGE
need for it because at this point i'm already giving about 700 hrs
in overtime by my estimation.
In past firms I did basically the same thing. I worked 9-7 on
weekdays at the minimum and put in a lot of overtime...typically
for low pay with little incentive. health care? bonuses? nah.
most small firms i've worked didn't offer a raise until asked..not
even a cost of living increase...and i don't think it's because i'm a
bad employee...i typicaly do most of the drawing, detailing, reviewing, etc of the projects i'm on.
also credit: i worked on one project for three years. there were three
of us on CA. Firm of about 14. The architect would review changes
and such, but trusted running of the project to the three of us. This
is a campus center that has since been published. In AR the project
team was not listed...not even the PM. There were quite a few people over the years, so i guess i understand. In his recent
monograph only the PM was mentioned. Every other project I worked
on I was mentioned..more or less. Seeing my name in print for the
first time was great...but for the project that was my pride and joy
there's no record of me at all...I know all the details and hours
and time I spent..but noone else outside that firm does.
maybe you work with a bunch of unmotivated young people..but
i find the kind of broad, stereotypical, 'in my day we worked so
much harder', generalities to be as lazy and disinterested as the
interns you're claiming you have. the more i think about it the
more infuriated i get.
what motivates you youngin's
All i know is, I'm 21, and if my boss offered me 20% overtime I'd still be there at 7:30 at night and I HATE that job (i'm currently working at an insurance company over winter break). If I actually managed to get an internship in NYC that offered that I'd probably only leave the office to go to class and sleep. I'd much rather CAD till my eyes bleed than spend another minute in the insurance business, even if it is detailing a window.
i will chime in a little here - too busy with SP and ME to give a whole hell - i did at my last job go above and beyond, asked for more responsibility, had other members in my firm - same level - tell partners at reviews, that they did NOT want more responsibility, and to give it to me, and you know what happened? i moved to Saint Paul, MN. albeit i had my own motivations to wanting more responsibilty, mostly self serving, but i think i earned it, i was passing exams, working on prime - if you can call it that - work in the office, managed standards, doled out work, coordinated dwgs, did this did that and was a valued asset to the firm.
the problem as i see it is what principals think "responsibilty" is and what it is not. if i was going to be given responsibilty for a project and then have to sit in monday morning meetings trying to justify why this project was over budget, because of the fee and hours YOU negotiated, then perhaps bringing me in EARLY in the process - negotiation of fee, working on the contract, and scheduling of time [you know get my input as to what i think i and others can accomplish for that fee] is not only prudent but a necessary part of me accepting that responsibility.
you might be negotiating me into a nightmare scenario where the possible and likely result is my failure, but if at least i am brought in early i can at least voice some strategies on how to make it work for everyone, and manage my own expectations as well as yours.
archie-
a few random musings:
location matters, as discussed ad nausium in lots of different threads. if your firm is located in the suburb, my urban bias says that you'd have a harder time finding the motivation of urban core seeking young-uns.
invest in your employees with training and professional development events. this is one of the great features of my current firm.
sit down with each employee and map out personal goals and the route to acheive them. then enable the cadmonkeys to move on up by balancing your needs as a tyrant/bossman and their goals. If you explain why you need them to do something boring and tedious, and then throw them a few bones that are what they want- moral/motivation will improve bigtime...
Originally...
"Please God, don't let Steve Lauf publish this picture."
2001.10.02
As if youngin's somehow have a monopoly on being unmotivated. From where I'm sitting there's still a whole lot for them to learn in that department.
archie
i still have much difficulty self-actualizing.
also, i don't respond well to jabs and disrespect.
"That's my only real motivation is not to be hassled; that, and the fear of losing my job. But you know, Bob, that will only make someone work just hard enough not to get fired."
Here's some major league lack-of-motivation:
At the second to last office I worked for I didn't even bother to pick up my final pay check.
At the last office I work for I was there 15 days, 5 of which I called in sick, and then I just didn't go in anymore. One of the partners called to see if I was coming in, and I simply answered no. I think I left a final paycheck there too. As I suspected, they needed the money more than me anyway.
The desire to have a good (great) project is what motivates me. Perhaps I picked up this personality trait from the few years that I sat on the owner's side of the table. Today I find myself going the extra mile and doing everything in my power to ensure that the project goes as smoothly.
Case in point: my project team (owner, GC, architect) received an email last Friday night from a sub-contractor stating that he had not received a response to his RFI and was thus going to proceed to fabricate the building component a certain way (the wrong way). Knowing that it would ruin my holiday weekend (via mental torment) if I did not act upon the information, I went into the office at 9 pm to craft a response and sketches. Mind you, I had not received the RFI formally from the GC, so I was not obligated to respond. However, if I had not responded, the pieces would have been fabricated improperly, and there would be more problems down the road. Thus, I thought it would be in the best interest of the PROJECT for me to answer the RFI because I knew the GC would not step-up to solve the situation.
Maybe I'm just stupid. Whatever the case, I think there is such a thing as being over-motivated to the extent of burn-out. So, archie, please take care of your motivated employees once you get them, and make sure that you don't ask TOO much of them.
Everyone here is bringing up some very interesting points. In the interest of full disclosure, let me identify myself as part of the 'unmotivated/guilty' under 30 crowd - I'm 29. First, I definetly think that what some people are dancing around and implying, basically that the current generation of under 35's or so are somewhat lazy and unmotivated, is a fairly true assessment. It's sad but true. For the most part, I'm fairly disgusted with my peers, and they are spoiled, which in turn tends to make them unmotivated. I think it has something to do with the way people my age were raised by their parents. They were raised to think they are the center of the universe. Granted, this is a gross generalization, but one I have found to be very true. Specifically, with regards to architecture, I think a large reason that many new architects/interns/people fresh out of school seem unmotivated is because they really don't want to be architects. The problem arises from the fact that people are herded right out of high school, into a college, where they decide to be architects, but haven't had any life experience, so they are making a career choice on shaky ground. I think this problem is way more common than people imagine or admit. We can all agree that the road to becoming an architect is a long and arduous one. It takes quite bit of schooling to get your cred. People choose this path at 18, and then 6-7 years down the road, they find that have 'grown up', or basically have seen something of adult life, and they are very different people than they were at 18. They are different people, but at this point they have invested so much time and money into becoming an architect that they don't have a choice, they basically have to go one with a career they may have very little interest in at this point in their lives. I think that's a huge reason for the perceived lack of motivation that Archie and others are experiencing. It's unrealistic to expect an 18 year old person to choose a career path that requires such a huge time commitment. I'll cite myself as an example. Right out of high school, I went to engineering school, graduated 5 years later and began working. After two years of working in the field, I knew my heart wasn't in it, because I had 'grown' up in the passing years, and wasn't interested in the same career I chose when I was 18 and had limited life experience. That's why I'm in architecture school now. I'm older, I've lived life and I know what I'd like to do and what type of career will me happy. In architecture school, I feel that I have a huge advantage over my peers because I'm about 8 years older than most of them, and I'm absolutely certain that it's the career I want. Many of these kids are clueless, and just decided that becoming an architect would be 'cool', or 'respectable', or a shortcut to a well paying professional job. They don't know what they want, they're too young. These are the kids that will end up shirking over time at Archie's firm. People thinking of going into a professional career with a long road of schooling and internships should be encouraged to take a few years off between high school and college so they can live life a bit and have a better idea what's out there.
i am over 35. my business/design partner is under 35. we get along fine. age don't matter.
i have been supporting myself since i finished high school when i was 17...that was normal where i grew up. but i had been working since i was 14, so wasn't much of a transition...also paid for uni myself and all the rest...blahblah blah whatever. old news.
i only bring it up cuz my partner did none of the above, and seems none the worse for it. we both ended up, foreigners both of us, in tokyo (which may or may not be significant) on scholarship to do phds, and we both wanted (and still want) to do cool things. so that is what we are working on. not sure if motivation really comes into it, at least not in the sense that is hinted at above.
as far as being an employer...we have tried to find young people to work with us on various projects, but in our uni, even the 20 year olds are working far too hard (mostly for starchitects, or for their profs) and we can't lure them away to work for us at the pay we can offer...at our school most of the kids are motivated beyond reason and live and breath architecture like it was prescious air. so we are a bit stuck for the opposite reasons to yorn. our only hope is to become absurdly famous quickly so that some cool kids will deign to work for us...am only half kidding.
as an aside, my partner is very clear about the idea that our future staff (fingers crossed it comes to that) should all be encouraged to work for us for a few years and then move on to bigger and better things (or become partners in our office). We don't want hangers on. which is i think an idea borne of his dutch perspective. being north american myself, i first found the idea a bit odd, but am now convinced he is right. it would be fantastic to have a great group of young kids doing very good work for us and then move on to become the future competition. it would keep us and our work fresh.
In America I think the attitude is to keep people complacent.
a lot of good comments in this thread.
maybe in the past, the drafting floor weeded people out better.
ochona said this, and it had been something I was thinking of putting down as well. I do believe motivation is mostly a combination of genetics and of how you were raised--particularly if you were raised by hard-working parents who expected a lot from you. But motivation seems to come to some later in life, as well. Perhaps good mentorship can in some ways replace bad parenting? I'm not sure.
Archie, as for your example above--it's quite shocking, I cannot imagine treating an employer this way. I can't even imagine going into a work meeting and *not* taking notes, even if everyone else was too and I hadn't been specifically asked to produce meeting notes. What would I do in a meeting if not take notes??? Absurd.
Have you asked this employee about his/her motivation?
Also--as for that moonlighting job--I'll take it!
Archie, A Fully stocked bar inside the studio would motivate me and heck Im talented when Im thus motivated.
firstly, and aside from the usual mutually inconveient but expected 'gaining experience' bit, i find the division you make between old and young in terms of sense of responsibility and competence as nearly ridiculous as that between man and woman, white and black. actually, your generalizing 'ye young' antagonism might very well be what this younger person is picking up on. maybe s/he should be invited to post about what they percieve on their part. In retrospect, you might also learn something, inspite of the 'you can't teach old dogs new tricks'.
As opposed to archinect-nag, try to talk to the intern herself. And if you're still not satisfied with her work and you are a god at your firm, fire her...but please, if you must construe a holier-than-thou taxonomy of humans keep it to yourself.
irritatedly
hmmmm...... What motivates me?.........I just love the work. The process of getting there. The "HOW" Although I do like the end result its the work in btw that I love. I'm still a student but I also have been working construction since high school. I guess the experience of actually "doing" has helped me to appreciate the "creating" process of it.
remember we live in a world of medocrity.
as for my own motivations - (sim. to DCA) my main motivation to do it right/good is to avoid trouble down the road.
- wanting to succeed/excell for personal reasons (instilled in me by my upbringing)
But what may UNmotivate me? I have been unmotivated many times: If I feel I have been set up for failure by the manager: In my earliest days, i would always have to work on the crappiest, most unintereseting projects, the ones that had been in the office for 8 years (not kidding) and gone nowhere but in circles, the ones that were already 80k in the hole for us and every hour i spent on it got us further in the hole, yet I had to do it. Many times I would get excited about a project and a design, only to be told later that the manager didn't give me a key bit of info that makes my design unworkable and the last few days were a waste and it is 2:00 and i have to draw new plans and have them printed by 3:00 to take to the client meeting for a presentation (true story, well they all are). Many times I'd work on a design only to later have the PM tell me that he wanted something different all the while and he even had it already sketched out and I might as well have been practicing my lettering.
emilyrides hit on another thing i agree with, maybe we really don't want to be architects but feel stuck with it. I am there, even though I try to ignore it most days.
I have serious motivation problems today, by the way. I will try to identify why.
" maybe we really don't want to be architects but feel stuck with it" -Strawbeary
i definitely sense that sometimes as well, but then i think...well, if i was an assistant director and i was working on one of the endless- but not longer -series of friends (and i assume thats a really good thing to have on ur cv if u were)..and what will rachel do next???? well, its a completely different profession from that of peter greenaway's. i do believe architecture can be interesting, but no where around me...i can't blame 'Architecture' for being boring...i can blame boring minds for being boring.
in the sense that 'Architecture' doesn't exist fot it to be boring...
Motivation is an organizational issue, not generational one I think.
I don't know that it is fair to say how do you motivate "young 'uns" these days, as if the output of an architectural education these days is somehow less passionate or less hard working than in "the good old days".
I am a young graduate in the field, and I can fully relate to this problem that many people are describing, but I'm not sure that you can pin motivation issues on young new employees.
I think this is a broader issue that relates to organization design, and organizational behaviour. How do you motivate your employees generally? One problem might be hierarchicy, bureaucracy, office politics. "Giving responsibility" is one thing. Dumping landmines and potential train wrecks on those overworked and underappreciated, always looking to discredited employees, play politics when that is the least concern especially of the ones with the least experience but the most enthusiasm who cannot help but try to diffuse whatever comes their way when everyone walks away and turns a blind eye- sure that can be labelled "an opportunity". But the issue is that when an organization has a general culture of landmine + survival rather than comradery + good work, and where communication is ambiguous and feedback always vague so as to maintain the status quo, remind employees of their place, it doesn't instil employee loyalty and passion generally.
It's easy to point a finger when something doesn't work. But that is the problem. Its the "me" mentality and laziness generally. Rather than the "us" work focused mentaility that is necessary to do good work, addressing the problem rather than dumping it on someone else. There's a problem of motivation if everyone young and old is on the verge of abandoning ship... That's just my 2 cents...
I think its partly a social and cultural problem. It's not an excuse, just an observation.
GET TO WORK, BITCHES
i might be overly sensative here but am i the only one who is a little confused by the assertion that there is something lacking from an ENTIRE generation?
is it not much more likely, that instead of us 'young 'uns' being lazy and uninterested, we are simply not replicates of the previous generation? Acting thinking feeling and working exactly how all you 'old fogeys' did 'back in the day'
responsability motivates... interest motivates... reinforcement motivates... and like LB said up top, trial by fire instills a sense that you're actually needed. give them something important to do, trust them, they will understand failing is not an option. and if they dont, you'll know they arent going to work out.
archie- I haven't read the entire thread so forgive me if someone already stated this. I am an under 35'er-though fastly approaching the cutoff. I consider myself highly motivated and have been extremely successful at my job. But, with that said, I put in overtime only when absolutely needed but not on a constant basis because my home life is important to me...I say on average I may work 4-5 nights overtime in a month, maybe more if it is extremely necessary.
Why do I do this? Why do I not devote everything to my career? Why is my generation considered "lazy"?
Because I watched my grandparents work themselves to death and barely have a home life. Because I watched my dad slave away at a job for 30+ years, working 12 hours + a day and weekends for what? To get laid off after 30 years of work and be out of a job.
My generation has seen companies lay off thousands of workers, so CEO's can make millions and even billions of dollars. People I know have worked their asses off only to be laid off. So what would motivate me to work hard for a company? Compensation and job security-neither of which is readily available in todays world.
So until our country learns to take care of employees and stop shipping jobs overseas or getting rid of someone so they can hire someone else in at a cheaper rate, then you are going to continue to get "lazy" employees.
leave it to mdler to always bring some humor into things.
cheers mate
2way communication is hugely impt.
when i took a break for grad school, i was very clear in telling my firm of 9 yrs that i intended to come back and that i was willing to work part time to hold my place. 'no problem.'
i worked 15-20 hrs/week for the first half of grad school but realized that this wouldn't be a reasonable thing to continue during the thesis. i again talked to the partners and told them that i'd like to take a leave of absence but come back when finished in the spring. 'no problem.'
in the spring i called and set up a meeting with the partners to discuss my reentry. they were dumbstruck. they had assumed that i was pursuing an academic/teaching direction and decided to replace me. they had just hired the week before i called. i was out.
if, at any time during these talks, they had said that i was creating a difficulty for them i would have either reconsidered my decision to pursue school right then or made the decision to leave the firm. but no question was ever raised and certainly no one ever talked to me about any change in direction/further pursuit of academia.
since then, it's been harder for me to commit to positions at other firms. i also feel less motivated and less likely to do extra work - beyond what's expected. i feel sort of not-anchored, like i can be set adrift any old time.
well said, tinydancer
I would have to say that part of the problem has to deal with the sense of entitlement that I see in younger employees.
I find that those that entered the job market in the late eighties/early nineties are much more motivated and work harder/smarter than those that entered in the mid nineties. Anyone that entered the job market in the mid nineties (such as myself) really has not experienced a difficult job market. At least in the NorthEast, the job market has always been an employees market for younger architects.
Home Depot dismissal of the CEO then giving him over $200,000,000 just isn't right. No wonder young architects aren't motivated. It in general sends a message to the finacial aspects
of our social being, "Be a Failure and get Rich."
less than competative pay, no 401K, shitty health care, sitting in front of a computer all day, dealing with the building dept, no stock options, no holiday bonus, no raise in 2 yrs
mdler, get another job then, buddy. me senses you not exactly happy.
strabeary....that's why he graces us with his presence here on good ole archinect each and everyday!
what would we do without mdler! I tell ya I think I would just be completely unMOTIVATED!!!
U're right, what was I thinking?!? mdler, stay put.
Well – I have to ask – were the prospective hirees’ portfolios reflecting of work that would definitely show a large amount of commitment? I mean, lets face it – in our profession it seems like the most talented are usually (I said usually people) the most committed – and with the committed comes the idea that a ‘successful’ project is what motivates them. I think I’m very much committed to any project I involve myself in – and to show in any interview, my portfolio shows big projects that were timesaking and very involved. Not saying it was necessarily good or bad, but the point is that it shows a level of commitment …okay – and some traces of perfectionist neurosis. Its similar to what tm11 said – if the hire-ee doesn’t show any sign of commitment to a project’s successful outcome from their inception to the firm, then there’s a large chance that they’re not motivated easily, if at all. And by in large a chance that they’re not that into architecture to begin with.
That’s just from the end of the hiree, but in terms of the organization taking on the employee – it’s a simple idea that branches out to more complex concepts about the organizational breakdown of hierarchy, reward, and recognition for the given project. If a firm doesn’t recognize or reward, then it’ll be hard to find an employee that’s motivated enough to want to give their all for a big fat zero in return.
I agree with Per Corell...communication is key...but also, follow through...
I've had two experiences that led to two different outcomes...
the first, I free-lanced for a professor for a couple of months...it was informal...I started showing up, as the work required...worked as long as the work required...if it was a 12 hour day, I was there, it it wasn't, then I wasn't...we both seemed to understand the needs and responsibilities, and my boss was very clear about timelines without micromanaging me. I really enjoyed it, and would have happily worked there longer, if he had the projects to support me being there. Sadly, didn't work
The other, another professor, academic setting. We had a discussion before I took the job about what my motivations were for staying on and working there, what my goals were and what I wished to accomplish. My boss, at the time, assured me that I would be given the latitude and support to do what I had mapped out. Not one month later, I was being asked to put aside many of my original goals to be her personal assistant - something I had been assured I would not be treated as - and was micromanaged to death. Every decision, every conversation, had to be related, and action could only be taken after the boss had had the say....It is demoralizing to be treated as an idiot...and, believe me, my motivation to do the work my BOSS WANTED waned. Instead, I had to take personal time to pursue my own projects and accomplish the job I was originally told I was hired to do.
It is a two-way street. I like to think that, given the opportunity, I would prove the theory of being a part of an unmotivated generation wrong. My second boss might disagree. But then, the people I worked with would tell you the opposite.
tinydancer is exactly right. if there is any generational issue, it is that our generation understands that labor relations are a two-way street.
if companies are primarily looking out for their stockholders and executives, then we need to primarily look out for ourselves. hey, folks, THAT's real capitalism. every man for himself, right? why bust your ass for the brass ring when they can just take it away right as you ascend the ladder?
this doesn't excuse your intern, archie -- sounds more like a personal problem on the part of your intern. but it does explain, to a certain extent, why we aren't working late when we don't HAVE to, why the competitive bullshit that some managers try to instigate among their younger subordinates just doesn't work, and why we're more likely to bust out on our own, and make our own way, than be company (wo)men all our lives.
i sat in a firm my first year out of school and survived while long-term employees were sacked mercilessly. i survived because i was young and cheap. and the partners still flew first-class to europe and china on tickets purchased with two days' notice.
ain't that the truth...anybody who feels they are underpaid, take solace in that it implies at least a little bit of job security. sadly, as soon as you're making a decent wage, this is when you need to be concerned about being hacked in the next market downturn.
take out student loans to go to school to get the degree to get the job to pay back the student loans..
boobies
you called mdler???
I am amazed that this thread has generated so much interest. I guess you do care! Thanks for all of the good insights. I did not intend to imply that the whole younger generation is a bunch of slackers. I just see a difference in priorities and desire to "get ahead" from my generation, also a lack of conceren about quality, and wondered if it was real or just my perception.
I do see the point of not wanting to spend all of your time at work. I raised kids and did spend too many evenings working on work stuff instead of playing tea party for the 345th time. I don't really expect young people to put in much more than 40 horus per week, but I would expect someone to come in every once in a while and put in extra time to meet a deadline.
The difference that concerns me is caring about the work. My firm pays decent wages. Not like you would get if you were a lawyer, but what architecture firm does? Did anyone get into this profession expecting to make mega bucks? You can make a decent wage at this- I raised a family in the business. I guess it might depend on what your "needs" are too- mine are pretty simple, but I feel like I have made enough money for a comfortable life and a comfortable retirement. But I don't do it for the money. I was always motivated by trying to produce the 'best quality' whatever that meant for the project. Even when I worked for someone else, I found myself waking up in the middle of the night worrying about some problem, or remembering some detail I had to work out. Not that I want my employees to wake up in the middle of the night, but I would like them to be responsible enough to care about what they are doing and really take pride in producing quality.
I realize I have a few people here who are just 'hopeless' and will never reach the level that I want them to attain. These are the ones that don't get the prime projects, don't get the huge bonuses. The will be the first ones to be laid off if things ever get slow. It's just too hard to find ANYONE to work to get rid of them now. It's frustrating for me, because I like to 'mentor' younger architects and see them progress. It has meant that a few have taken off and started their own firms based on what they learned here, but I actually prefer that for some bizarre reason to the ones who linger and never "reach their potential" Blame it on the yuppy phase I lived thru.
One thing which seems to not really have been touched on is if the generation is in fact less motivated, or if the motivated people of the generation have by in large found other fields to go in to.
I am somewhat under the age of 35 so I do not have a very good frame of reference, however the motivation peers in my generation have shown in the fields of computer science seem above and beyond what past generations have shown in other fields.
Another thing older generations have to keep in mind is that frankly the younger generations do not respect them in terms of there business sense. Most people in my generation will tell you it is there parents / bosses generation which has left us being less competitive with the world, the erosion of benifets and pay etc...
PLEASE KEEP IN MIND ON AVERAGE I EARN 17,5% LESS THAN I WOULD HAVE 25 YEARS AGO AND IT HAS ZERO TO DO WITH MY PRODUCTIVITY.
Me myself I consider myself fairly motivated and have never had a problem personally pulling all nighters at work if that is what is required. Reasons for this are I enjoy architecture, and I value that someone has sacrificed greatly to create a job for me to have. When I think about complaining about hours or motivation I just recall I had one real interview for a job coming out of school in seven months of busting my but trying to find one. I also recall I had put in 80 hour work weeks while in high school doing far worse things.
My only real answer though is that motivation comes from within the person. You can not give someone motivation.
As an under 35'er I have a different take. It's not a lack of motivation, but a lack of patience.
Modern society has conditioned us to want everything right away. Everything is so instant from cell phones to ATM's to jet travel. That has filtered down into our trade. Look at craftsmanship of construction. If you are an old fogey you must've noticed the steady erosion of that art.
Same goes for in architecture. Changing from hand drafting to CAD has eroded the quality of CD's. Students are learning programs like AutoCAD and Maya, not architecture. Even the fast tracked world of architecture is too slow to stay interested.
archie
at 27, it is hard to pay the bills on my salary...let alone put $$$ away or think about supporting a family
Many years back when I worked for a fellow in a smallish firm I felt like i was the number two guy as I had been there four years or so . things slowed down in the early 90's and all of a sudden i had to take time off just like any other newbie to the office. We elected to share the time off and work 3 days a week for a month and keep the staff but that was a staff decision not the bosses. It was the lowest point of my career ( newly married, first child enroute) I felt like all of a sudden I had no security.
Clearly set my course for getting out of there and plotted a new direction to work for myself. It was a boner move for my boss as he lost a lot of respect from everyone and I think the turnover of staff was pretty big over the next few months. If you run a business especially a small one that's a great deal of money that has to go to learning the ropes which is expensive, and you don't build the skill and experience in the office. ie you can't tackle the bigger stuff, that's fine if you want to be stuck in your garage doing renos your whole life but if he wanted to grow the business its in the interest of the boss to work with people who want to grow.
I think there will always be those who are happy toiling away on details in the back of the office but you also need the young guns to build and stretch the firms capabilities into new areas. The firms that don't do that well really do die. I've seen a ton of the old guard firms who ruled the business when I graduated and won all the big commissions that have basically been eaten by newer younger firms or firms who adapted and have become big and successful ( both in design and business terms) those firms are very impressive and have found a way to be successful and still be the "in Place" for newbies to look for a job.
I know for us its about being entrepreurial with staff and support their desires not necessarily mine. ie technical training , graphics, or or landing a new client. I let them flounder but also give them the support on that when they need it, and they find that motivating.
Many years back when I worked for a fellow in a smallish firm I felt like i was the number two guy as I had been there four years or so . things slowed down in the early 90's and all of a sudden i had to take time off just like any other newbie to the office. We elected to share the time off and work 3 days a week for a month and keep the staff but that was a staff decision not the bosses. It was the lowest point of my career ( newly married, first child enroute) I felt like all of a sudden I had no security.
Clearly set my course for getting out of there and plotted a new direction to work for myself. It was a boner move for my boss as he lost a lot of respect from everyone and I think the turnover of staff was pretty big over the next few months. If you run a business especially a small one that's a great deal of money that has to go to learning the ropes which is expensive, and you don't build the skill and experience in the office. ie you can't tackle the bigger stuff, that's fine if you want to be stuck in your garage doing renos your whole life but if he wanted to grow the business its in the interest of the boss to work with people who want to grow.
I think there will always be those who are happy toiling away on details in the back of the office but you also need the young guns to build and stretch the firms capabilities into new areas. The firms that don't do that well really do die. I've seen a ton of the old guard firms who ruled the business when I graduated and won all the big commissions that have basically been eaten by newer younger firms or firms who adapted and have become big and successful ( both in design and business terms) those firms are very impressive and have found a way to be successful and still be the "in Place" for newbies to look for a job.
I know for us its about being entrepreurial with staff and support their desires not necessarily mine. ie technical training , graphics, or or landing a new client. I let them flounder but also give them the support on that when they need it, and they find that motivating.
Archie,
when you find out what the solution please let me know...seem to be heading down that road myself, u-35 with an obvious shift in focus beyond the work.
I think there is a point to the "employees market" impact on motivation, but I see this a little differently.
I'm not so sure that the employees market leads to a demotivated workforce simply because employees have alternatives exactly.
Rather, I think the problem is that the competitive labour market has actually created a general expectation of turnover by employers and employees alike. I think the key to motivation is the type of collaborative work environment that can only be fostered through a sense of belonging, ownership of work, trust, respect, comradery... people expecting to do good work with others.
If firms don't expect to retain employees, there won't be the loyalty. If employees don't trust and respect one another and expect to build lasting relationships with one another, then they won't do all that they can do.
Capitalism has its shortcomings. Motivation happens collectivey and can be easily sapped by a culture that looks out for number one... The difference is between work (which is a social creative act) and labour (which is an individual act for survival)...
for now...
speculation about the unmotivated youngin's:
i think these young architects went into the profession with many misconceptions about the profession...but reality is showing them otherwise...
this is going to be a leap...i seems the popularity of considering architecture as mainly art, attracted a different demographic of young people...people who wanted to make art...but the reality of the profession is that it's far from being art, especially during those training years when a young architect is on grunt work, these phases are more about being a craftsman and a builder...i think most young architects wanted to be first and foremost, artists...
autocad and specifying ovens and refrigerators and making door schedules and dealing with the building department is not the work of an artist...and that's a burn out...
Archie,
by the way..whats the name of your firm and where is it ?
only thing that I find motivating is trust, I believe people will raise up to the occasion if you make it clear to them that something depends on them.
You mention that offering pay incentives hasn't motivated your employees. What about advancement opportunities?
My previous post about lack of patience was only 1/2 cynical. I really want a promotion, an advancement of some kind. So I start my ARE's, get LEED AP done, offer to help on anything around the office and ask for more challenging projects. Sure I get the thanks and a pat on the back, but when is the real recognition coming? I think of myself as that motivated employee archie is looking for, but my patience is running thin.
I busted my ass at the last firm I worked for. Worked the 12 hour days and did everything best I could. For that I got a low salary with slim benefits and 3% pay raises for over 3 years. Always being told they expect more from me and that the "payoff" is coming soon. Eventually I got fed up, took that experience elsewhere for a major salary bump, but am still waiting for that promotion I really want. Was I wrong to "start over?" At least the pay raise qualified me for buying a house so I have somewhat a normal lifestyle now.
This architecture profession can be heartbreaking. We are in college anywhere from 5-8 years. Then there's 3+ year of indentured servitude called IDP. After that an enormously long registration exam. A good part of an architect's life is devoted to just "getting there." You mention getting the license 5 years out of college, but you also want young employees to work overtime. Remember young people in the profession have a lot on their plates with the demands of the profession alone. What about the rest of life - marriage, kids, etc.? Don't forget architects have high divorce rates, which I find apalling.
I'm not trying to whine about it, but compare us to the majority of the corporate world. With essentially the same years of schooling a MBA grad can go into the workforce with zero experience and get a 6 figure salary and straight into a management role. Have friends that have done it. Granted architecture could not work that way if we wanted it to, but it seems clear to me why one could get easily frusturated and apathetic about our profession.
i find the broad generalities thrown out about the >35 generation
to be fairly insulting. i'm 33 and have been working long days
for low pay for most of my career. I take responsibility for the
things i do and for mistakes i make. In return my employers have
shown fairly little appreciation...I guess assuming that I should
be content to earn a salary and give them my time. I work from 9-8
every weekday...i don't come in on weekends unless there's a HUGE
need for it because at this point i'm already giving about 700 hrs
in overtime by my estimation.
In past firms I did basically the same thing. I worked 9-7 on
weekdays at the minimum and put in a lot of overtime...typically
for low pay with little incentive. health care? bonuses? nah.
most small firms i've worked didn't offer a raise until asked..not
even a cost of living increase...and i don't think it's because i'm a
bad employee...i typicaly do most of the drawing, detailing, reviewing, etc of the projects i'm on.
also credit: i worked on one project for three years. there were three
of us on CA. Firm of about 14. The architect would review changes
and such, but trusted running of the project to the three of us. This
is a campus center that has since been published. In AR the project
team was not listed...not even the PM. There were quite a few people over the years, so i guess i understand. In his recent
monograph only the PM was mentioned. Every other project I worked
on I was mentioned..more or less. Seeing my name in print for the
first time was great...but for the project that was my pride and joy
there's no record of me at all...I know all the details and hours
and time I spent..but noone else outside that firm does.
maybe you work with a bunch of unmotivated young people..but
i find the kind of broad, stereotypical, 'in my day we worked so
much harder', generalities to be as lazy and disinterested as the
interns you're claiming you have. the more i think about it the
more infuriated i get.
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.