Enter day 80 of the job hunt. Have contacted 60 firms, have heard from 8, which were nice enough to say no. The rest, no response. I have revised the good old resume twice, as well as samples. All in the hope that, by changing things up, I'll hit gold...so far, it ain't looking so hot.
So the question is, how long should I bother? How long did it take you to land a job after coming out of school? (Either from undergrad, or post-grad, which is where I am at? Granted, even with a post-grad, my work experience makes me look like I just finished my first degree...I'm awesome like that. :) )
There could be a lot of factors causing the long wait. In what region or city are you hoping to work? Local markets vary - both in terms of competition for jobs and current workloads for architects.
Are you located in or near the city you're hoping to work in? If not it can be much harder to generate interest in your candidacy, especially for an entry-level job. If you're applying to firms outside of your local area the best approach is often to plan a trip to that area and write the firms letting them know the dates that you'll be in their area and asking for an interview while you're in town. Call firms while you're in town too - often they're open to meeting with you on short notice if they know you're only in town for a limited period.
60 firms is really a lot. Are you able to research that many firms enough to write targeted, informed cover letters to each? If not then you may want to target your search more. Concentrate on 4 or 5 firms each week, do some research on them, and carefully craft a few paragraphs about why you will be a great fit for that particular firm.
Can you post your resume and/or samples? People here are good critics - (though sometimes harsh, so don't do it if you're thin-skinned). We can try to give some suggestions about how to better target your resume and work to the skills and experience that firms look for in promising entry-level people.
It took me about 4 months out of school, and I was in the first graduating class post-9/11. That was to get one job, which was really crappy, and which I only stayed at until I got the next job, which turned out only a little better.
Incidentally the economy has been pretty robust for the past few years but all of the talk now is not about *if* the economy is slowing down, but about how "hard or soft" the landing will be. My advice is to avoid companies that put all of their eggs in one basket.....target your search to firms that have a diversity of market segments, or that do work in China. For instance, the housing market is slowing down - has been - but it looks like retail is holding steady. Look for firms that maybe do some retail. And again, we can't design fast enough for China.
We made the decision to move to DC in August of 2001 when my husband landed a great job here. I had not yet moved here by 9/11 (the plan was for me to move in December). I came for Thanksgiving and interviewed for one firm. They offered me the job, and I accepted because I was anxious about the job market and the ramifications of 9/11 on the economy.
It turned out to be a dreadful cookie-cutter-residential job that I stayed at for one year. I like to think of it as a blip on my resume - luckily my previous and post experiences were/have been better. But at least it got me through a tough time with the certainty of a pay check.
dyee, you should weigh the importance of having a job versus the importance of having a GOOD job. Either option could be valid for you right now.
You may also want to research networking strategies and "informational interviews" as alternate ways of getting your foot in the door.
my post-graduation job search: three months, 50+ firms contacted and mailed CV, letter and samples, EIGHT interviews until I got a single job offer, (i realized what they were really looking for were some crappy CAD drawings.)
got an offer, which wasn't even at an architecture firm, but i was too desperate to care...it was a miserable but necessary experience, eight months and another 2 interviews later, I got in a firm, which is still less than ideal...my career interview batting average is a pitiful .200, even worse if you count total offers against total firm contact attempts. lame!
press on, there's light at the end of the professional sewer tunnel!
Well...I started off looking at NYC. I moved to Ithaca to stay with my brother while I looked...I stated that in my cover letter, notifying them that I was able to visit the city if an interview opportunity became available...
As for my cover letter, I start with a one sentence introduction of who I am, followed by a paragraph focusing on the firm, then a paragraph about my strengths. I try and research each firm online, and check out their online portfolio, usually referring to one or two projects from their portfolio in the second paragraph...
I'll have to figure out how to post my resume as a pdf somewhere...see what people think...I posted pics of the mailer I just started sending out to that last 10 firms I've contacted on my blog...you can check it out there....
a bit much ... i think you should become a writer, especially with such a nom de plum
i'm unsure of what size and caliber of firms you are sending to, but did you really refer to yourself as the silent observer in the letter? no principal has time to read the longwinded, overworded and slighty self-loathing (or promoting?) return letter that you sent, and I certainly hope it found hands in a human resource person. I'm not trying to be degrading here, nor do I disagree with you, but this is the real world, and getting someone to notice you isn't easy, and you need to be quite brief and direct when writing cover letters and organizing your resume and Portfolio ... edit.
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think dyee meant that (s)he was sending potential employers to the blog, I think just posting the mailer on it.....
But if you are sending employers to that, you should probably stop!
I am heartily surprised that you are having such a hard time finding a job in NYC. Take into account that employers on the island probably get plenty of people who want to work for them but can be selective in who they interview, and if they see that you are not in the city currently, that might be good enough reason to not call. I would take the whole bit about living in Ithaca off the resume and just make sure that you give yourself a 4 hour grace period to get to the interview if you get a phone call!
zero days to eight months... it's all in the economy and local scene.
I've learned the hard way that too much information can hurt more then help. Let the firms project their needs on you and be maliable enough to adapt to the situations.
Have you interned anywhere before grad school? Summer work? I was one of those first classes out after 9/11. Classmates that were graduating just a few years earlier in 1999, 2000 were getting signing bonuses and going anywhere in the nation. I sent resumes everywhere in the country. Got offered a job at slave wages out east. When I tried to negotiate a fair entry level salar ($30k min) they said they had plenty of resumes on file of recent grads willing to work for $26k. I walked on that offer and was finally able to land a job at the firm where I had worked summers. Not an ideal place. Got stuck doing CAD for about a year. Did get good experience and a few years later I took that experience to the job market, got several offers quickly and accepted a job with much more responsibility and about a 30% pay raise. Point is, don't worry about where you start out, it's more about gaining the experience to get you to where you eventually want to be. Still, have some self respect about the pay.
those eight months were in nyc post 9/11 - had to move to philly to land a job earning $10/hour (that sucked but had no pride left and just need the $$$)
Reading dyee's letter to the only architect who responded to her / his resume reminded me of the cultural shift that often occurs between academe and practice. By this, I mean that on the one hand you have someone with time, intelligence but no footing in the strictly business world and on the other you have an organisation that, in the rush of business, is composed of people who've largely long since sought to keep personal reflection to one side of the work environment. Rather cynically, I'd suggest that ramping up the personal aspect and the eloquence is going to further alienate the potential employee: by appealing to the personal they're maybe taking the potential employer out of their business comfort zone.
Mind you, if I were to receive such a letter I'd be inclined to write back. The person would be somewhere in my mind if an opprtunity became available. Personally, I spent about a year after grad school before I landed a job: the interview was offered out of the blue from someone I'd written to months previously. Then I got the job offer on the spot. Good wee office too.
Anyways, Dyee's models are beautiful, no? I'd like to make one in that style over the upcoming holidays...
P.S. Don't take all that implied rejection personally: it sucks, sure, but it's just the cold hand of supply and demand, nothing more: it's nothing to do with the quality of your work.
P.P.S. The fact that employers very rarely acknowledge receipt of carefully prepared CVs is an ongoing shame on the profession: for all the trumpeting of 'professional values' architects make, this casual incivility is indeed shocking.
It took me about 3 weeks to land a job. I contacted 8 firms and went on 3 interviews. I had just graduated and had no previous working experience in an architecture firm. This was in NYC, as well.
The job ended up being really cool. It was a small firm, so I got to do plenty of designing.
Dyee, something tells me that your approach could use refining. The mailer you made looks really awesome, but you have to make sure that the first thing your prospective employer sees is your cover letter, resume and maybe one nice image of your best project. It seems from the way you've set up your mailer, that there is no heirarchy, so employers may not know where to look first.
i second some of the other's comments.
do NOT send your resume to EVERYONE. be selective! know who is advertising for positions...with firms in another city you need to convince them you are going to be there.
remember when you are talking to an architecture firm you rarely (unless it is huge) talk to an HR person...usually you are talking directly to a principal who doesn't have the time for form letters etc.
to help them, you can try calling. first you need to talk to people you know. my first job out of college was from a nephew of a friend of one of my parents. especially for your first job it IS who you know. try all of your professors, parents friends, friends friends, college buddies, etc. you first job is a great risk to a firm. you cost A LOT of money to train!! do not feel you are owed a job...nor too good for any.
get your foot into the door with a job...then find the one you want in a year or so.
finally, when you interview...know the firm as well as you can. visit projects, see if you know people there, ask more questions about the firm then they ask about you! read a number of great books on how to get your first job out of college...use resources like at your university. find alumni groups...
i know this sucks! no one seems to help you once you finish...but if you are smart you can get a decent job that will set you up in the future for where you want to go!
Wow, I was just looking at your blog there. Those mailers are quite nice. All I've ever done is send out a standard envelope with cover letter and resume inside. Maybe a splash of color on the resume, but not much more. That's all and in my job hunts of past I've received formal rejection letters. Often signed by HR but some signed by principle's, presidents, partners. The postcard reject letters I received as one step above the non-response. Have things changed a lot in the past 5 years or is this a NYC thing. Almost all the firms in DC, Baltimore, Philly and Chicago sent me real rejection letters back in 2001.
Hey everyone...a definite thank you for the advice so far...
WonderK is correct...I only posted the link to my blog to show people the mailer I was sending...I DO NOT give that blog address out on my cover letter or resume, nor do I refer to in when I send out to employers...
Of the sixty I have sent out, I would say a majority of them were for postings on either archinect or newyork-architects.com. Usually for entry-level/junior architect positions that were posted.
As for using friends...contacted all of them from my class that are in the city working...had a couple of leads that dead-ended. As for professors, well...contacted two of my closest, but they didn't have any leads for me in the city. Am now using friends of friends...but again, that isn't the strongest connection around.
As for work experience...what amounts to two summer internships, and a lot of experience in academic contexts...which I think is hard for firms to understand....
BTW...I really want to know what people think about all the firms that post "NO PHONE CALLS". I mean, they don't respond to email, and it sounds like if I make a phone call, I'll already make a bad impression....
I don't recall the source, but I remember a statement something like it takes a month of job searching for every $10,000 you want to make. Not sure how accurate it is but just thought I would pass it along - and like others have stated, it has a lot to do with the economy, being in the right place at the right time, etc. Don't give up.
Dyee, it took me about four weeks and 12 applications (New York also) - things were slow at first (and I also started to think that I must suck), but really changed as soon as I posted some of my work online. I posted just a few images showing a range of work, and started to get responses almost immediately. Also, don't be intimidated by the "no calls" thing - call up the firm, introduce yourself and explain that you are applying for a position there and that you want the name of the person you should address your letter to. No questions, no long talk, but immediately you are more than an unknown quantity.
I also visited New York for a few days, and stated in in my applications that I would be in the city for interviews during those specific dates. This, too, worked, perhaps because it makes one appear assertive and proactive, and even if you don't have other interviews lined up, they might think that you have - which ups the desirability factor.
This is a slow time of year for landing a job. if you can relax till next year, take a break and enjoy life a little. January will be here soon enough and firms will start to think about staffing again.
right now, the principals are focused on dealing with year end taxes, bookkeeping, the holiday party, getting tipsy at the holiday party (and tipsy employees at the party), shopping for gifts, going on vacation, and dealing with employees going on vacation.
barry makes good point here. nobody's ever looking to hire during the holiday season (december & probably most of november too)...most are just thinking of surviving till the end of the year and those last two months happen so quickly.
the silver lining to this is that january and the early part of the new year is usually a good time for opportunities to open up. principles, clients, and all of the assorted big shots spent lots of time chatting at holiday parties and on the ski-lifts new years day so this is a good opportunity for them to gauge the barometer of the business climate for the coming year. these people drink alot, new ideas abound and come january it's time to get back to work achieveing the reality of all this big talk...and that usually means some help is needed.
it took me 4 weeks to find a job with a firm i really didn't want to work at, and still have issues with. i am not being utilized for my skills/experience, and the firm really doesn't have any interest in advanced building skins - i dunno why i am sticking around.
but yeah, wait a month and there will be more opportunities, especially at smaller firms just floating through the winter break/xmas paries until the new clients walk in the door (new year's resolution, christmas gift for wife, whatever) also, send me an email on the seattle firms you looked at, i can throw some others that might be hiring at you as well.
It's frustrating, only because I've tried to follow the "rules" as such...I try to make the cover letter personal, I did visit NYC nearer the beginning of my search, notifying the first ten firms I contacted of the times I would be there and my availability. I followed each letter up by email, which 1 of 5 may have responded to, and everything has ended in a dead end. Thus, well, the feeling that I truly suck...cause really, it doesn't seem like it should take this long....bad timing, perhaps....
Yeah...I am gonna take some time off while the holidays are around, and then regroup...I have a set of 6 or so that I need to follow up on, but other than that, I'll lay low....
holz.box...I'll shoot you an email...I appreciate you offering to send some other ideas my way...and if anyone reading this knows of NYC firms, I'm more than willing to entertain names...
Again, thanks everyone for giving me some much appreciated input into this :) Archinectors ROCK!
The "January Phenomenon" that is discussed above is something that I never considered, but it is a fantastic observation. (However, I landed my past 3 jobs during the months of November and December.)
Another thing to consider:
While I don't agree with the practice, some employees "take their holiday bonuses and run." They are gone by January. This gives you an opportunity to fill their vacancy in the early part of the new year. (However, you'd have to consider why they would have wanted to leave the firm, I suppose.)
if i had any choice to quit in september or january, i'd wait until january 20th so I could cash that bonus. I figure that I'm down at least $800, if not more, because I missed out getting the bonus from my old firm because I had to split in september.
ours is a mid-sized firm without a dedicated HR person, much less a HR department. for that reason, I personally deal with most, if not all HR matters - including all recruiting matters.
in any given week, I probably receive 20-30 unsolicited resumes, most of which I review right away. when we have a job ad posted, I probably receive twice that number in a week.
many of the submittals I receive are addressed to 'whom it may concern' or 'hiring manager' - rarely does the submittal convey any indication the sender knows anything specific about our firm.
when we do have a job posted, 80% of the resumes responding specifically to the ad are not remotely close to meeting the stated job requirements.
now, I make a genuine effort to reply to all resumes, but sometimes the press of other duties causes delays. for that, I am regretful.
however, I read often in this space complaints about employers never responding to employment inquiries. given what we face on our end and the huge amount of time we already are called on to waste, that criticism seems largely misplaced.
Couple other words of advice:
1: Before you send to a firm, call first (I guess unless an ad says no phone calls and is very specific about the following)! Ask whomever you talk to, "who should I address my resume to?" and, "how does he/she/you like to receive them?" No one wants to read a letter addressed to "Sir/Madame" or "HR Dept." And some people just let mail pile up on their desk, some never check the fax machine, some either don't check email or have an agressive spam filter. All these can and will add to the reasons why you have not heard from some people.
2: Always follow up with a phone call. This is kind of obvious but cannot be stressed too much. Atleast to confirm that they even got your resume, then ask if you can possibly set up a meeting, whether they are hiring or not. Even if they say they are not hiring, try to set up a meeting anyway. Worst case, you get some interview experience, best case you get a job.
That's all I got. And yes, New York is difficult. I may be wrong but there seems to be a bit of Ivy League snobbery going around. I guess I shouldn't say snobbery, but more like preference.
Sue, there is some "Ivy League snobbery" out there. On the other hand, NYC is in the middle of a huge buiding boom and "The Architects Newspaper" claimed recently that there are approximately 2000 unfilled positions in architecture firms in the greater metropolitan area right now. Of course not all of these are entry-level, and some are not very desirable jobs... But there aren't that many Ivy leaguer architects currently in NYC and unemployed or looking, so there should be plenty of jobs to go around.
I do agree with those mentioning that December isn't the best time to look. In addition to reasons given above, I'd also add that for many firms January is a prime time for new clients to appear (New Year's resolutions to finally get their projects done).
The distance issue is probably hurting you. A few years ago when I was job-hunting in NYC from a non-NYC address I got a cell phone with a NYC number and rented a mailbox in NYC, then set up forwarding from it to my real address. That seemed to help a great deal. I'd advise that you stop mentioning in your cover letter that you're not local. Emphasize that you're "available to interview locally". Firms often eliminate candidates purely based on the perception that hiring them will be a hassle and a long wait while they relocate, due to remote location.
Finally: what employers screen for most in entry-level candidates are basic skills (from model-building to software to photography - basically anything that can be useful to the firm) and some minimal understanding of construction practices. If you have any of these then lead with those facts. If you've got lots of skills then prioritize those that are more directly related to billable hours - for example previous experience with construction drawings and an understanding of building construction rank higher than graphic design, web design, photography, etc because the former are directly related to what is billable to clients, while the latter are desirable skills for the firm to have but utilized most during "downtime" when things are slow. For example a firm will often send a skilled intern to take project photos or have him update the website - but not at times when there are deadlines and/or billable tasks to put him on. Since firms tend to hire most when deadlines are looming or big projects need staffing, they're looking most for immediately profitable skills and knowledge.
some quick things to think about.
first off. if you want to work in nyc, most offices want to see that you're here already. i know it seems ridiculous, but most offices hire intern level people in crunches.....even if you have to lie and drive down that day, say that you are in the nyc area....maybe get a cell phone with a nyc number or something to make it legit.
also, try going to offices and just dropping stuff off. it sounds slightly rude, but most offices appreciate a bit of pavement stomping as part of the process....i was surprised at the number of people i caught wanting to "take a break" and look at my work. it can actually be a nice unplanned thing for someone in an office to view a nice portfolio....if nothing else, they may know someone to refer you to. (when i was first in new york i stopped by michael sorkin's office and we had a great 1/2 hour chat and then recommeded some people for me to talk with).
it seems like you're playing it too safe. it might work for other cities in the country, but nyc is run by the hyper-ambitious and brutally forward....so it's not necessarily a bad thing to be a bit pushy.
oh, just to round out my story about getting my first job in nyc...the office that finally hired me did so after i barged into their office requesting an on the spot interview and about 5 phone calls over the following week and half till they finally offered me a position. they actually respected my perseverence.
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How long did it take?
Enter day 80 of the job hunt. Have contacted 60 firms, have heard from 8, which were nice enough to say no. The rest, no response. I have revised the good old resume twice, as well as samples. All in the hope that, by changing things up, I'll hit gold...so far, it ain't looking so hot.
So the question is, how long should I bother? How long did it take you to land a job after coming out of school? (Either from undergrad, or post-grad, which is where I am at? Granted, even with a post-grad, my work experience makes me look like I just finished my first degree...I'm awesome like that. :) )
There could be a lot of factors causing the long wait. In what region or city are you hoping to work? Local markets vary - both in terms of competition for jobs and current workloads for architects.
Are you located in or near the city you're hoping to work in? If not it can be much harder to generate interest in your candidacy, especially for an entry-level job. If you're applying to firms outside of your local area the best approach is often to plan a trip to that area and write the firms letting them know the dates that you'll be in their area and asking for an interview while you're in town. Call firms while you're in town too - often they're open to meeting with you on short notice if they know you're only in town for a limited period.
60 firms is really a lot. Are you able to research that many firms enough to write targeted, informed cover letters to each? If not then you may want to target your search more. Concentrate on 4 or 5 firms each week, do some research on them, and carefully craft a few paragraphs about why you will be a great fit for that particular firm.
Can you post your resume and/or samples? People here are good critics - (though sometimes harsh, so don't do it if you're thin-skinned). We can try to give some suggestions about how to better target your resume and work to the skills and experience that firms look for in promising entry-level people.
It took me about 4 months out of school, and I was in the first graduating class post-9/11. That was to get one job, which was really crappy, and which I only stayed at until I got the next job, which turned out only a little better.
Incidentally the economy has been pretty robust for the past few years but all of the talk now is not about *if* the economy is slowing down, but about how "hard or soft" the landing will be. My advice is to avoid companies that put all of their eggs in one basket.....target your search to firms that have a diversity of market segments, or that do work in China. For instance, the housing market is slowing down - has been - but it looks like retail is holding steady. Look for firms that maybe do some retail. And again, we can't design fast enough for China.
Ah, yes, the post-9/11 economy...
We made the decision to move to DC in August of 2001 when my husband landed a great job here. I had not yet moved here by 9/11 (the plan was for me to move in December). I came for Thanksgiving and interviewed for one firm. They offered me the job, and I accepted because I was anxious about the job market and the ramifications of 9/11 on the economy.
It turned out to be a dreadful cookie-cutter-residential job that I stayed at for one year. I like to think of it as a blip on my resume - luckily my previous and post experiences were/have been better. But at least it got me through a tough time with the certainty of a pay check.
dyee, you should weigh the importance of having a job versus the importance of having a GOOD job. Either option could be valid for you right now.
You may also want to research networking strategies and "informational interviews" as alternate ways of getting your foot in the door.
my post-graduation job search: three months, 50+ firms contacted and mailed CV, letter and samples, EIGHT interviews until I got a single job offer, (i realized what they were really looking for were some crappy CAD drawings.)
got an offer, which wasn't even at an architecture firm, but i was too desperate to care...it was a miserable but necessary experience, eight months and another 2 interviews later, I got in a firm, which is still less than ideal...my career interview batting average is a pitiful .200, even worse if you count total offers against total firm contact attempts. lame!
press on, there's light at the end of the professional sewer tunnel!
Well...I started off looking at NYC. I moved to Ithaca to stay with my brother while I looked...I stated that in my cover letter, notifying them that I was able to visit the city if an interview opportunity became available...
As for my cover letter, I start with a one sentence introduction of who I am, followed by a paragraph focusing on the firm, then a paragraph about my strengths. I try and research each firm online, and check out their online portfolio, usually referring to one or two projects from their portfolio in the second paragraph...
I'll have to figure out how to post my resume as a pdf somewhere...see what people think...I posted pics of the mailer I just started sending out to that last 10 firms I've contacted on my blog...you can check it out there....
www.archi-hell.blogspot.com
oh...and thanks for the input so far!
a bit much ... i think you should become a writer, especially with such a nom de plum
i'm unsure of what size and caliber of firms you are sending to, but did you really refer to yourself as the silent observer in the letter? no principal has time to read the longwinded, overworded and slighty self-loathing (or promoting?) return letter that you sent, and I certainly hope it found hands in a human resource person. I'm not trying to be degrading here, nor do I disagree with you, but this is the real world, and getting someone to notice you isn't easy, and you need to be quite brief and direct when writing cover letters and organizing your resume and Portfolio ... edit.
Truely there's light at the end of the professional sewer tunnel, but its coming from the work train thats gonna knock you down.
all the best dyee,
Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think dyee meant that (s)he was sending potential employers to the blog, I think just posting the mailer on it.....
But if you are sending employers to that, you should probably stop!
I am heartily surprised that you are having such a hard time finding a job in NYC. Take into account that employers on the island probably get plenty of people who want to work for them but can be selective in who they interview, and if they see that you are not in the city currently, that might be good enough reason to not call. I would take the whole bit about living in Ithaca off the resume and just make sure that you give yourself a 4 hour grace period to get to the interview if you get a phone call!
zero days to eight months... it's all in the economy and local scene.
I've learned the hard way that too much information can hurt more then help. Let the firms project their needs on you and be maliable enough to adapt to the situations.
Have you interned anywhere before grad school? Summer work? I was one of those first classes out after 9/11. Classmates that were graduating just a few years earlier in 1999, 2000 were getting signing bonuses and going anywhere in the nation. I sent resumes everywhere in the country. Got offered a job at slave wages out east. When I tried to negotiate a fair entry level salar ($30k min) they said they had plenty of resumes on file of recent grads willing to work for $26k. I walked on that offer and was finally able to land a job at the firm where I had worked summers. Not an ideal place. Got stuck doing CAD for about a year. Did get good experience and a few years later I took that experience to the job market, got several offers quickly and accepted a job with much more responsibility and about a 30% pay raise. Point is, don't worry about where you start out, it's more about gaining the experience to get you to where you eventually want to be. Still, have some self respect about the pay.
those eight months were in nyc post 9/11 - had to move to philly to land a job earning $10/hour (that sucked but had no pride left and just need the $$$)
Reading dyee's letter to the only architect who responded to her / his resume reminded me of the cultural shift that often occurs between academe and practice. By this, I mean that on the one hand you have someone with time, intelligence but no footing in the strictly business world and on the other you have an organisation that, in the rush of business, is composed of people who've largely long since sought to keep personal reflection to one side of the work environment. Rather cynically, I'd suggest that ramping up the personal aspect and the eloquence is going to further alienate the potential employee: by appealing to the personal they're maybe taking the potential employer out of their business comfort zone.
Mind you, if I were to receive such a letter I'd be inclined to write back. The person would be somewhere in my mind if an opprtunity became available. Personally, I spent about a year after grad school before I landed a job: the interview was offered out of the blue from someone I'd written to months previously. Then I got the job offer on the spot. Good wee office too.
Anyways, Dyee's models are beautiful, no? I'd like to make one in that style over the upcoming holidays...
P.S. Don't take all that implied rejection personally: it sucks, sure, but it's just the cold hand of supply and demand, nothing more: it's nothing to do with the quality of your work.
P.P.S. The fact that employers very rarely acknowledge receipt of carefully prepared CVs is an ongoing shame on the profession: for all the trumpeting of 'professional values' architects make, this casual incivility is indeed shocking.
wow. i am glad i working part time when i am in fourth year of undergrad.
had no idea it was hard to land a job, since i've seen bunch of my class mates having part-time jobs.
it's not a bad idea to go to school in a city
It took me about 3 weeks to land a job. I contacted 8 firms and went on 3 interviews. I had just graduated and had no previous working experience in an architecture firm. This was in NYC, as well.
The job ended up being really cool. It was a small firm, so I got to do plenty of designing.
Dyee, something tells me that your approach could use refining. The mailer you made looks really awesome, but you have to make sure that the first thing your prospective employer sees is your cover letter, resume and maybe one nice image of your best project. It seems from the way you've set up your mailer, that there is no heirarchy, so employers may not know where to look first.
I'm curious to see your cover letter and resume.
i second some of the other's comments.
do NOT send your resume to EVERYONE. be selective! know who is advertising for positions...with firms in another city you need to convince them you are going to be there.
remember when you are talking to an architecture firm you rarely (unless it is huge) talk to an HR person...usually you are talking directly to a principal who doesn't have the time for form letters etc.
to help them, you can try calling. first you need to talk to people you know. my first job out of college was from a nephew of a friend of one of my parents. especially for your first job it IS who you know. try all of your professors, parents friends, friends friends, college buddies, etc. you first job is a great risk to a firm. you cost A LOT of money to train!! do not feel you are owed a job...nor too good for any.
get your foot into the door with a job...then find the one you want in a year or so.
finally, when you interview...know the firm as well as you can. visit projects, see if you know people there, ask more questions about the firm then they ask about you! read a number of great books on how to get your first job out of college...use resources like at your university. find alumni groups...
i know this sucks! no one seems to help you once you finish...but if you are smart you can get a decent job that will set you up in the future for where you want to go!
Wow, I was just looking at your blog there. Those mailers are quite nice. All I've ever done is send out a standard envelope with cover letter and resume inside. Maybe a splash of color on the resume, but not much more. That's all and in my job hunts of past I've received formal rejection letters. Often signed by HR but some signed by principle's, presidents, partners. The postcard reject letters I received as one step above the non-response. Have things changed a lot in the past 5 years or is this a NYC thing. Almost all the firms in DC, Baltimore, Philly and Chicago sent me real rejection letters back in 2001.
Hey everyone...a definite thank you for the advice so far...
WonderK is correct...I only posted the link to my blog to show people the mailer I was sending...I DO NOT give that blog address out on my cover letter or resume, nor do I refer to in when I send out to employers...
Of the sixty I have sent out, I would say a majority of them were for postings on either archinect or newyork-architects.com. Usually for entry-level/junior architect positions that were posted.
As for using friends...contacted all of them from my class that are in the city working...had a couple of leads that dead-ended. As for professors, well...contacted two of my closest, but they didn't have any leads for me in the city. Am now using friends of friends...but again, that isn't the strongest connection around.
As for work experience...what amounts to two summer internships, and a lot of experience in academic contexts...which I think is hard for firms to understand....
BTW...I really want to know what people think about all the firms that post "NO PHONE CALLS". I mean, they don't respond to email, and it sounds like if I make a phone call, I'll already make a bad impression....
Maybe you should broaden your search to more cities.
yeah...the last six I sent were to firms in seattle...
dyee,
Stop counting the days, it will only lead to more frustration.
Research the firms, write good cover letters and be persistent; You'll see, something good will come along.
Good luck!
It's a common phrase, and my father often reiterated it: the best jobs are not advertised.
Once a job is listed in the Sunday newspaper classifieds, there may be something fishy about it.
I don't recall the source, but I remember a statement something like it takes a month of job searching for every $10,000 you want to make. Not sure how accurate it is but just thought I would pass it along - and like others have stated, it has a lot to do with the economy, being in the right place at the right time, etc. Don't give up.
Dyee, it took me about four weeks and 12 applications (New York also) - things were slow at first (and I also started to think that I must suck), but really changed as soon as I posted some of my work online. I posted just a few images showing a range of work, and started to get responses almost immediately. Also, don't be intimidated by the "no calls" thing - call up the firm, introduce yourself and explain that you are applying for a position there and that you want the name of the person you should address your letter to. No questions, no long talk, but immediately you are more than an unknown quantity.
I also visited New York for a few days, and stated in in my applications that I would be in the city for interviews during those specific dates. This, too, worked, perhaps because it makes one appear assertive and proactive, and even if you don't have other interviews lined up, they might think that you have - which ups the desirability factor.
Good luck!
This is a slow time of year for landing a job. if you can relax till next year, take a break and enjoy life a little. January will be here soon enough and firms will start to think about staffing again.
right now, the principals are focused on dealing with year end taxes, bookkeeping, the holiday party, getting tipsy at the holiday party (and tipsy employees at the party), shopping for gifts, going on vacation, and dealing with employees going on vacation.
barry makes good point here. nobody's ever looking to hire during the holiday season (december & probably most of november too)...most are just thinking of surviving till the end of the year and those last two months happen so quickly.
the silver lining to this is that january and the early part of the new year is usually a good time for opportunities to open up. principles, clients, and all of the assorted big shots spent lots of time chatting at holiday parties and on the ski-lifts new years day so this is a good opportunity for them to gauge the barometer of the business climate for the coming year. these people drink alot, new ideas abound and come january it's time to get back to work achieveing the reality of all this big talk...and that usually means some help is needed.
it took me 4 weeks to find a job with a firm i really didn't want to work at, and still have issues with. i am not being utilized for my skills/experience, and the firm really doesn't have any interest in advanced building skins - i dunno why i am sticking around.
but yeah, wait a month and there will be more opportunities, especially at smaller firms just floating through the winter break/xmas paries until the new clients walk in the door (new year's resolution, christmas gift for wife, whatever) also, send me an email on the seattle firms you looked at, i can throw some others that might be hiring at you as well.
Thanks everyone for dropping some tips by....
It's frustrating, only because I've tried to follow the "rules" as such...I try to make the cover letter personal, I did visit NYC nearer the beginning of my search, notifying the first ten firms I contacted of the times I would be there and my availability. I followed each letter up by email, which 1 of 5 may have responded to, and everything has ended in a dead end. Thus, well, the feeling that I truly suck...cause really, it doesn't seem like it should take this long....bad timing, perhaps....
Yeah...I am gonna take some time off while the holidays are around, and then regroup...I have a set of 6 or so that I need to follow up on, but other than that, I'll lay low....
holz.box...I'll shoot you an email...I appreciate you offering to send some other ideas my way...and if anyone reading this knows of NYC firms, I'm more than willing to entertain names...
Again, thanks everyone for giving me some much appreciated input into this :) Archinectors ROCK!
The "January Phenomenon" that is discussed above is something that I never considered, but it is a fantastic observation. (However, I landed my past 3 jobs during the months of November and December.)
Another thing to consider:
While I don't agree with the practice, some employees "take their holiday bonuses and run." They are gone by January. This gives you an opportunity to fill their vacancy in the early part of the new year. (However, you'd have to consider why they would have wanted to leave the firm, I suppose.)
dca-
if i had any choice to quit in september or january, i'd wait until january 20th so I could cash that bonus. I figure that I'm down at least $800, if not more, because I missed out getting the bonus from my old firm because I had to split in september.
dyee, and others.
let me share some views, as an employer.
ours is a mid-sized firm without a dedicated HR person, much less a HR department. for that reason, I personally deal with most, if not all HR matters - including all recruiting matters.
in any given week, I probably receive 20-30 unsolicited resumes, most of which I review right away. when we have a job ad posted, I probably receive twice that number in a week.
many of the submittals I receive are addressed to 'whom it may concern' or 'hiring manager' - rarely does the submittal convey any indication the sender knows anything specific about our firm.
when we do have a job posted, 80% of the resumes responding specifically to the ad are not remotely close to meeting the stated job requirements.
now, I make a genuine effort to reply to all resumes, but sometimes the press of other duties causes delays. for that, I am regretful.
however, I read often in this space complaints about employers never responding to employment inquiries. given what we face on our end and the huge amount of time we already are called on to waste, that criticism seems largely misplaced.
Couple other words of advice:
1: Before you send to a firm, call first (I guess unless an ad says no phone calls and is very specific about the following)! Ask whomever you talk to, "who should I address my resume to?" and, "how does he/she/you like to receive them?" No one wants to read a letter addressed to "Sir/Madame" or "HR Dept." And some people just let mail pile up on their desk, some never check the fax machine, some either don't check email or have an agressive spam filter. All these can and will add to the reasons why you have not heard from some people.
2: Always follow up with a phone call. This is kind of obvious but cannot be stressed too much. Atleast to confirm that they even got your resume, then ask if you can possibly set up a meeting, whether they are hiring or not. Even if they say they are not hiring, try to set up a meeting anyway. Worst case, you get some interview experience, best case you get a job.
That's all I got. And yes, New York is difficult. I may be wrong but there seems to be a bit of Ivy League snobbery going around. I guess I shouldn't say snobbery, but more like preference.
Sue, there is some "Ivy League snobbery" out there. On the other hand, NYC is in the middle of a huge buiding boom and "The Architects Newspaper" claimed recently that there are approximately 2000 unfilled positions in architecture firms in the greater metropolitan area right now. Of course not all of these are entry-level, and some are not very desirable jobs... But there aren't that many Ivy leaguer architects currently in NYC and unemployed or looking, so there should be plenty of jobs to go around.
I do agree with those mentioning that December isn't the best time to look. In addition to reasons given above, I'd also add that for many firms January is a prime time for new clients to appear (New Year's resolutions to finally get their projects done).
The distance issue is probably hurting you. A few years ago when I was job-hunting in NYC from a non-NYC address I got a cell phone with a NYC number and rented a mailbox in NYC, then set up forwarding from it to my real address. That seemed to help a great deal. I'd advise that you stop mentioning in your cover letter that you're not local. Emphasize that you're "available to interview locally". Firms often eliminate candidates purely based on the perception that hiring them will be a hassle and a long wait while they relocate, due to remote location.
Finally: what employers screen for most in entry-level candidates are basic skills (from model-building to software to photography - basically anything that can be useful to the firm) and some minimal understanding of construction practices. If you have any of these then lead with those facts. If you've got lots of skills then prioritize those that are more directly related to billable hours - for example previous experience with construction drawings and an understanding of building construction rank higher than graphic design, web design, photography, etc because the former are directly related to what is billable to clients, while the latter are desirable skills for the firm to have but utilized most during "downtime" when things are slow. For example a firm will often send a skilled intern to take project photos or have him update the website - but not at times when there are deadlines and/or billable tasks to put him on. Since firms tend to hire most when deadlines are looming or big projects need staffing, they're looking most for immediately profitable skills and knowledge.
some quick things to think about.
first off. if you want to work in nyc, most offices want to see that you're here already. i know it seems ridiculous, but most offices hire intern level people in crunches.....even if you have to lie and drive down that day, say that you are in the nyc area....maybe get a cell phone with a nyc number or something to make it legit.
also, try going to offices and just dropping stuff off. it sounds slightly rude, but most offices appreciate a bit of pavement stomping as part of the process....i was surprised at the number of people i caught wanting to "take a break" and look at my work. it can actually be a nice unplanned thing for someone in an office to view a nice portfolio....if nothing else, they may know someone to refer you to. (when i was first in new york i stopped by michael sorkin's office and we had a great 1/2 hour chat and then recommeded some people for me to talk with).
it seems like you're playing it too safe. it might work for other cities in the country, but nyc is run by the hyper-ambitious and brutally forward....so it's not necessarily a bad thing to be a bit pushy.
oh, just to round out my story about getting my first job in nyc...the office that finally hired me did so after i barged into their office requesting an on the spot interview and about 5 phone calls over the following week and half till they finally offered me a position. they actually respected my perseverence.
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