this a selfish post but I am between a rock and hard place with hopes that the usual archinect mixture of cynicism, humor and wit will help my debate.
basically I am trying to decide between two job offers:
job a: boutique firm with a history of high-end retail and residential. i would be lead graphic designer and junior architect.
job b: construction firm mostly does non-profit and arts work. small, profit-sharing bonuses. owner is REALLY passionate about helping the client stay within budget and get their spaces built. totally earnest and sincere.
backgorund about me: worked for two years in a boutique firm during school, finished with a degree completely unrelated to architecture. took a job at a high-end residential construction firm instead of my other option, an exhibit design firm. felt that this would be a great way to give me a lot of hands on experience, see how a building comes together and give me experience in an area that even alot of architects don't have. currently miserable at my job, been applying for 3 weeks for other jobs. firm is unethical and fucked up although i know that all construction firms do not operate this way. i started as an assistant project manager, working under a great teacher who subsequently left the firm, frustrated wtih their operating procedures.
my dilemna comes from my own concern with ethics and desire to feel good about what i do everyday. and the fact that........... the guy I used to work under is the one who got me the interview at his new job, the nonprofit focused construction firm............ i happen to be in love with him and he's married. i feel evil but i can't just turn my attraction to him off. so, in my interview yesterday, the owner was like "(guy who i am in love with) loves you and thinks you're great, so I would partner you two up" ..... i have also shouted my live-in boyfriend's name when I was trying to call him one time when he still worked with us. what a freudian slip..... i've dreamed about him, the whole works.
so I see a lot of potential in both jobs but am concerned that i am putting myself into a situation where i might do something stupid.
well, i'm ten years younger than him so that probably means yes.
I am wondering if other people have been in this situation with the boss and also, what are the gut reactions to the jobs? it's hard to ask about ethics when i'm fantasizing about a married man but i tend to think that i would feel really good about what i do at the construction firm, but at the same time, i would be able to be creative at the architecture firm with other people's money. hmmmm
pomoinmono, i dont think these two ethical issues are related to each other
If i were you, i'd go to the boutique firm where you will get to be more creative - its not often that you get a chance to be really creative these days in our profession. There are a thousand non-profit opportunities that you can take up anytime in your life later.
And going for the creative firm might help take your head off the ex-boss you are attracted to.
saemolddoctor, i think you are right. i just wish i could be honest with him and say that i'm attracted to him and my refusal of their offer really has nothing to do with the job per se.
how do you neogtiate when you have a higher offer from another place and you want the job that's REALLY great to give you more?
your attraction to the ex-boss is a totally different issue from your job search, as i mentioned. Do whatever you want with your ex-boss depending on your feeling.
In the same vein, do whatever you want with your jobs, if I were you, id take the boutique designer, not because i dont like low-cost constructions etc., but at this stage of life (and i guess you are youngish), i'd rather do some 'cool' stuff and get the experience
a lot of people are acting like there's a choice. there is not.
you choose A. end of story.
why? because you're in love with someone who you would be working with at B. you will either do something you (and he) will regret or you will be eternally frustrated at B. you and your scottish paramour will either take what is probably a very electrically charged "platonic" relationship to the non-platonic level...
or you will be miserable because you either can't or won't have the object of your desire.
forget him -- he's married -- break up with your boyfriend and take job A.
however: i do have to admit that (female, mind you) scottish accents drive me crazy so i can sympathize. my wife does a reasonable impression of one and i let that suffice.
This post worries me. ochona has it absolutely right.
Don't tell a married man you are attracted to him out of some misguided and selfish attempt to be "honest" It is totally innappropriate. You need to stay away from him, period.
Remember he is not a single person anymore: he's half of a whole, and if you are inappropriate with him you are also fucking with another person's life.
On a slight tangent here, but I just wanted to point something out about the usage of word 'honesty'
Majority of the people i know misuse the term 'honesty' when they should be using the expression 'bluntness'. Though both words imply an element of truth, the consequences of using them are miles apart. For example, an honest person is conscientious, empathetic and considerate of the other party's emotions, circumstances and their unique situation, an honest person will think twice about his/her own actions as it affects the OTHER party. On the contrary, a blunt person is unconscientious, apathetic and inconsiderate of the other party, and he/she only cares about one's OWN emotions and immediate benefits of their actions.
i can relate to your dilemma, i really can, from personal experience. had a mindblowingly intense crush on someone in my office (this was back before i got engaged).
she was not married but in very much a long-term relationship. it affected my work, i can tell you this.
you have probably already experienced it: something like, you're supposed to be thinking about, say, a detail...and then that person walks by...or they're talking to someone who sits near you and you sense their presence...and you suddenly cannot concentrate on anything else but that person and fifteen minutes later you're still fixated on them and there's nothing that you can do to remove the frustration because they're TAKEN. no possible outlet from that road.
when the person whom i was in love with was laid off (she happened to be a student intern, one year younger than me...i had just graduated) i took that as a sign that there was no future there. frankly, you have been given that sign, you just need to read it. it's hard, i know, but you have to do this for you and as LB so eloquently said, for him...and his wife.
I kind of don't believe this is a legitimate dilemna - I kind of think we're being put on.
But assuming this is for real: if it weren't for the whole infatuation issue choice b would be the better choice, because the design-build experience and construction admin knowledge will help you immeasurably in the future, while choice a is very likely to get you pigeon-holed as a graphics person and leave you uninvolved with construction aspects of the projects, which is a hard role to wiggle out of later.
So my advice is don't take either job, but look for something else more like choice b, but absolutely, positively NOT in this guy's firm!!!!
eeayeeayo, this is a REAL dilemma for me. i wonder who would take the time to make up such a ridiculous scenario?
regardless, I've already decided to take the job at the boutique firm in part because of the very strong response against working in the construction firm situation.
hard choices
this a selfish post but I am between a rock and hard place with hopes that the usual archinect mixture of cynicism, humor and wit will help my debate.
basically I am trying to decide between two job offers:
job a: boutique firm with a history of high-end retail and residential. i would be lead graphic designer and junior architect.
job b: construction firm mostly does non-profit and arts work. small, profit-sharing bonuses. owner is REALLY passionate about helping the client stay within budget and get their spaces built. totally earnest and sincere.
backgorund about me: worked for two years in a boutique firm during school, finished with a degree completely unrelated to architecture. took a job at a high-end residential construction firm instead of my other option, an exhibit design firm. felt that this would be a great way to give me a lot of hands on experience, see how a building comes together and give me experience in an area that even alot of architects don't have. currently miserable at my job, been applying for 3 weeks for other jobs. firm is unethical and fucked up although i know that all construction firms do not operate this way. i started as an assistant project manager, working under a great teacher who subsequently left the firm, frustrated wtih their operating procedures.
my dilemna comes from my own concern with ethics and desire to feel good about what i do everyday. and the fact that........... the guy I used to work under is the one who got me the interview at his new job, the nonprofit focused construction firm............ i happen to be in love with him and he's married. i feel evil but i can't just turn my attraction to him off. so, in my interview yesterday, the owner was like "(guy who i am in love with) loves you and thinks you're great, so I would partner you two up" ..... i have also shouted my live-in boyfriend's name when I was trying to call him one time when he still worked with us. what a freudian slip..... i've dreamed about him, the whole works.
so I see a lot of potential in both jobs but am concerned that i am putting myself into a situation where i might do something stupid.
so which situation do you want us to help with?
- the part about wanting to sleep with boss?
- of the job choices?
anyways, one question - are you hot?
well, i'm ten years younger than him so that probably means yes.
I am wondering if other people have been in this situation with the boss and also, what are the gut reactions to the jobs? it's hard to ask about ethics when i'm fantasizing about a married man but i tend to think that i would feel really good about what i do at the construction firm, but at the same time, i would be able to be creative at the architecture firm with other people's money. hmmmm
S.O.D...
student/dancer
chili,
you caught me! i am a dancer, that's what my degree is in. What is s.o.d?
also, the guy is scottish. accents are always a bonus.
to hell with the job- give the live-in bf the dignity of a break up.
pomoinmono, i dont think these two ethical issues are related to each other
If i were you, i'd go to the boutique firm where you will get to be more creative - its not often that you get a chance to be really creative these days in our profession. There are a thousand non-profit opportunities that you can take up anytime in your life later.
And going for the creative firm might help take your head off the ex-boss you are attracted to.
pomoinmoni,
My boss is scottish, but I don't think I wanna shack up with him.
I'd also like to get a degree in dance, but I am a stocky white dude.
S.O.D. = sameolddoctor
boredom---->excitement!
saemolddoctor, i think you are right. i just wish i could be honest with him and say that i'm attracted to him and my refusal of their offer really has nothing to do with the job per se.
how do you neogtiate when you have a higher offer from another place and you want the job that's REALLY great to give you more?
chili,
that's disgusting. thank you for that. :-P
your attraction to the ex-boss is a totally different issue from your job search, as i mentioned. Do whatever you want with your ex-boss depending on your feeling.
In the same vein, do whatever you want with your jobs, if I were you, id take the boutique designer, not because i dont like low-cost constructions etc., but at this stage of life (and i guess you are youngish), i'd rather do some 'cool' stuff and get the experience
let us know how it goes!
i am not concerned about what kind of work you will choose. i just hope you make a wise decision.
it is ultimately your decision, but i think if you are afraid to do something stupid, you should stay away from the temptation.
i hope you make a decision that you will not regret.
s. park,
you will be reassured to know that i've decided to go with the architecture firm. hopefully it's everything i dreamed it would be.....
But no William Wallace.
a lot of people are acting like there's a choice. there is not.
you choose A. end of story.
why? because you're in love with someone who you would be working with at B. you will either do something you (and he) will regret or you will be eternally frustrated at B. you and your scottish paramour will either take what is probably a very electrically charged "platonic" relationship to the non-platonic level...
or you will be miserable because you either can't or won't have the object of your desire.
forget him -- he's married -- break up with your boyfriend and take job A.
however: i do have to admit that (female, mind you) scottish accents drive me crazy so i can sympathize. my wife does a reasonable impression of one and i let that suffice.
This post worries me. ochona has it absolutely right.
Don't tell a married man you are attracted to him out of some misguided and selfish attempt to be "honest" It is totally innappropriate. You need to stay away from him, period.
Remember he is not a single person anymore: he's half of a whole, and if you are inappropriate with him you are also fucking with another person's life.
On a slight tangent here, but I just wanted to point something out about the usage of word 'honesty'
Majority of the people i know misuse the term 'honesty' when they should be using the expression 'bluntness'. Though both words imply an element of truth, the consequences of using them are miles apart. For example, an honest person is conscientious, empathetic and considerate of the other party's emotions, circumstances and their unique situation, an honest person will think twice about his/her own actions as it affects the OTHER party. On the contrary, a blunt person is unconscientious, apathetic and inconsiderate of the other party, and he/she only cares about one's OWN emotions and immediate benefits of their actions.
think i've said enough...
you are all much wiser and more honest than i am ... your advice is strongly appreciated.
i can relate to your dilemma, i really can, from personal experience. had a mindblowingly intense crush on someone in my office (this was back before i got engaged).
she was not married but in very much a long-term relationship. it affected my work, i can tell you this.
you have probably already experienced it: something like, you're supposed to be thinking about, say, a detail...and then that person walks by...or they're talking to someone who sits near you and you sense their presence...and you suddenly cannot concentrate on anything else but that person and fifteen minutes later you're still fixated on them and there's nothing that you can do to remove the frustration because they're TAKEN. no possible outlet from that road.
when the person whom i was in love with was laid off (she happened to be a student intern, one year younger than me...i had just graduated) i took that as a sign that there was no future there. frankly, you have been given that sign, you just need to read it. it's hard, i know, but you have to do this for you and as LB so eloquently said, for him...and his wife.
I kind of don't believe this is a legitimate dilemna - I kind of think we're being put on.
But assuming this is for real: if it weren't for the whole infatuation issue choice b would be the better choice, because the design-build experience and construction admin knowledge will help you immeasurably in the future, while choice a is very likely to get you pigeon-holed as a graphics person and leave you uninvolved with construction aspects of the projects, which is a hard role to wiggle out of later.
So my advice is don't take either job, but look for something else more like choice b, but absolutely, positively NOT in this guy's firm!!!!
eeayeeayo, this is a REAL dilemma for me. i wonder who would take the time to make up such a ridiculous scenario?
regardless, I've already decided to take the job at the boutique firm in part because of the very strong response against working in the construction firm situation.
ochona, thanks for the empathy and experience in an identical situation...........
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