First off you need to look at your state's code. The "ADA manual" - by which you probably mean ANSI A117.0 1998 or 2000, or an ADAAG interpretation - is not in and of itself a code. So first off you'd have to tell us which of these is in use in your jurisdiction, or there's no way we can look anything up for you.
Second: it's up to the state to adopt an accessibility standard, enforce it, and make any relevant addendums, additions, or deletions. So you should check your state and local codes for anything like that
It's been my experience that some plan officials will be concerned not only with the public's use of the space but with the idea that a potential handicapped employee should be able to work in any space as well. Ultimately state and local codes usually include some clause that leaves all power of interpretation and enforcement up to the local officials.
In a situation where the local official is taking a hard stance on a very conservative reading of the code I've sometmes had some success with appealing to the state disability board - but this will slow down the project, and this board is also made up primarily of people with disabilities, so you have to come up with a very strong case for why it's an unreasonable hardship or an unreasonable interpretation of the code.

i think it is completely reasonable to provide hc access to not only the public but also employees. those with disabilities deserve to work too.

Some of these spaces need do need a judgement call from the local authorities -- it does seem odd to run a 21' x 3' ramp to a 10' x 3' space that almost no one will use -- and I'm guessing that manning the sound booth is an in-house need, and not really a paid position. If not then I suppose E would be right -- (By the way, E, thanks for the comments on the other thread...plus I saw your backyard garden photos -- wow, NICE...)

There are way too many variables open in your statement to come up with a readymade solution, but here are some things to think of in terms of a solution.

* If it is an existing building, and the raised spaces are part of the original building's design, generally you've got more leeway in terms of accessibility. Most rehabilitation codes have a section which essentially says that you can leave a condition as-is, but you can't make it "more" out of code. This is covered in ANSI 117.1 and most local codes.

* Your sound booth cannot be used by someone in a wheelchair anyway (its only 36" wide) - so you need to be careful with that, because if that space becomes accessible, you're going to have to tardis out two more feet in width.

* Your third raised platform space is unmentioned - its use should give you an idea of who would be accessing it - If its used for office supplies, it really should be accessible - but if its used for stage rigging or some other use which ambulatory motion (heavy, awkward or tall objects) you have a better shot at leniency.

* Check your locality (hopefully online) to see what addendums they they have to IBC, ANSI117.1 etc. (though, you really should have done that prior to now.)

* Build a compliant semi-temporary (steel) ramp. After the inspector leaves, remove it (but keep it handy - should they hire a employee in a wheelchair the owner better get out his allen wrench and put it back). This usually winds up costing more, unless that section of the building is already built.

i do agree that situations like this can become judgement calls especially when renovating existing buildings.

glad to help rim. anytime.

Thanks Aluminate, i will look into it- I ma sure it’s ANSI A117 latest edition
it's not that I don't want to design a facility that's accessible to all,
but there are certain circumstances where a 1:12 ramp is just not feasible do to the existing space.

my grief is that at the beginning I told the client I needed ramp to all platforms, after meeting with the Chief building official, he led me to believe that he would allow it otherwise.
E,
don’t get me wrong I totally agree with you- but when a building official has the last word. I just whish they were a bit more consistant on their interpretation that is all.

"I just whish they were a bit more consistant on their interpretation that is all."

And ruin all the fun?!

i hear you contrivium. bureaucracy can be frustrating.

when in doubt i have found that it is benifitial to make contact with your state board (as aluminate refered to) BEFORE you are finished with the drawings.

dont always rely on what the local building official tells you, even if you have it in writting.

example:
i was working on a small commercial project, in a small town in MA. the owner had it in his mind that he would do 'x' - we told him that x would not be compliant and that 'y' would be required. he did not believe us, so he made a visit to the local building inspector. the building inspector sided with the owner and stated that the less compliant solution, the one that the owner had originally wanted to move forward with, would be acceptable.

we were suspect of the local building inspectors interpretation so we sent in a request to the State's Architectural Access Board. the AAB agreed with us, and that is what we incorporated in our design.

Had we listened to the building inspector it would have been nothing but trouble in the future.

check the code, if you are unclear then contact the state's board, if that takes too long, or the answer is still unclear than opt for the greatest amount of accessibility.

also some more things to consider:
(all of which will trigger different sections of your states building code)

- how much is the cost of the renovations vs. value of the building?
- is the building listed on the national register?
- who will be using the space (already mentioned by others) but this is even further important as you will need more than a simple ramp. you will need to check all your clearances, turning radius, clear floor spaces at the door, egress, etc.

I agree that you should try to verify that the second guy is aware of what the first guy said... But do that carefully, because sometimes those code guys get difficult if they think you're trying to go over their head, or implying that they're wrong in their interpretation.

Actually ANSI 1998 is still in force in many more places than the newer edition - and it's better if it is 1998 because in general it's more lenient. I don't have the 2000 edition but I'll see if I can see anything relevant in 1998.
But as I said before: almost all states have addendums and deletions and such that make things slightly different everywhere. For example: in my state no room at all, regardless of use, is allowed not to be accessible, unless it is a storage closet under 10 square feet - even though it doesn't say any such thing in ANSI or ADAAG. Of course, since this basically means that no closet can be a size between 10 and 60 square feet, it's usually possible to get the local guys to sign off on exceptions - because that particular rule is crazy. On the other hand, they're often quite sticky about anything that could involve an employee - for instance saying a janitor's closet needs to be fully accessible because the janitor might have a disability...

Ok... I looked through the code books here. ANSI A117.0 1998 doesn't have any exceptions listed. Basically it deals only with rules for accessibility, and tends to assume that all spaces will be accessible.
ADAAG - which is more of a an interpretive volume than a standard and is not usually referenced in local codes - does not specifically mention sound booths or the situation of multiple levels of platforms. But it does mention that their must be accessibility for performers to all performance areas, dressing rooms, dugouts, etc. So the second guy's reading really seems to be more in keeping with the spirit of the code.
But again, I would check your state's code - specifically the part that references ANSI or whatever the accessibility standard is there. Also read carefully the part of your state code involving renovations to existing buildings. In some states the project's estimated construction cost is the determining factor in whether it must meet accessibility standards at all!

Someone correct me if I am wrong here:

Everything must be accessible except Utility Rooms (Janitor, Sprinkler, Electrical, Mechanical...) and non required building exits.

cf: It's state specific. And sometimes also locally/municipally specific too.

You always have to remember that "ADA" is not a code. States have to adopt an accessibility standard, and in doing so the states sometimes modify the rules. In general they usually go toward the more restrictive - because while ADA is not a code, it is a federal law - but it's a law that is enforced only upon complaint about non-conformance. In other words the federal govt. doesn't care until a person with a disability complains about a specific instance of inaccessibility.
In a few cases - most notably in California - the state's own accessibility code differs substantially from the federal standars, and is in some cases in direct contradiction on certain points. That's a tricky situation because while it is the state's laws that the local officials must enforce, it still leaves archiects open to complaints filed by people with disabilities, on the basis of ADA.

Ya know I'm thinking it would maybe be easier to eliminate all level floors and just make the whole building one big ramp?

Just to espand on what Aluminate said above about ADA not being a code: it became much clearer to me when I understood that. The ADA is a civil rights act, not a prescriptive set of regulations. It comes into play when someone feels they have been denied basic rights because of someone else's built facilities. Local municipalities from states on down enact their own rules - aka codes - that quantify what the ADA recommends - sometimes a little more, sometimes a little less.

crowbert's advice to build a temporary ramp may also work as a variance measure. I did a project in Philly - building in a historic district - in which the Owner had a small steeply-sloped steel ramp made that could be stored next to the back door and brought out when necessary. We were approved (in part because the neighborhood really wanted that backyard outdoor seating area).

what is the deleuziandelanda take on this code thing???

...that is why you have to know what ADAAG says before you have any discussions with city officials. If a handicap person takes you to court, ADAAG will be part of the trial. And then you will be at the mercy of the Jury...

Get the city official's interpretation of the condition, write it down, have the official read and sign, place in job file, your done.

Above all ,thanks to all of you that responded to my dilemma yesterday- It truly help me out. Specially aluminate, J,e, and cln1.

So here is how it’s panning out- found the section in the ADAAG that I was looking for, to all those of you interested is section 4.1.3 exception (c).
“to provide access to incidental occupiable spaces and rooms which are not open to the general public and which house no more than five persons, including but not limited to Equipment control rooms and projection booth.” This took care of the sound booth dilemma.

Also the IBC 2000 – 1103.2.7 raised areas- "Raised areas used primarily for purposes of security, life safety, or fire safety including, but not limited to observation galleries…..
… are not required to be accessible."

made my case- they bought it, got the church to write a letter saying that if there is a complain regarding accessibility to the raised platforms I would be indemnified and that they will pay for any needed modifications.
Thanks again.

i just realized something. may not be relevant in your state, but in ky churches are not required to meet ada at all. though most choose to anyway.

to clarify, based on what liberty said earlier, ky has adopted ada as part of the code, so it is enforced. but then they excepted churches...

steven, do you know why?

contrivium: that's great. Make sure to assemble a good paper trail from both the church and the plan inspectors!

Steve,
as always you are a men of few but powerful words- I call the ADA specialist at the department of Justices, you are correct, ADA 28 CFR Title III section 36102 (e)
religious entity


Unfortunately the state were we are doing this project (NE) has amended this section-according to the city’s chief building inspector-

I call the State Fire Marshal’s office to see if someone there can get me a copy of the amendment to this exception.

We will have to wait and see-

don't know why for sure, but i THINK some churches claimed hardship/$$$. since they're not (most of the time) money-making entities and many (think the mom-and-pop churches in houses, of which we have many) just don't have any money.

like it said, most churches with which i've worked bend over backwards to meet it anyway. most try to exceed ADAAG, especially those with aging membership.