I've decided that I can't take it anymore. I don't know what to do with myself, and I'm just counting down the days till my internship is over and I'm back to school.
What have I learned? I've learned that I hate what I do, and I don't do a good job at it as a result. I can't work on stair details every hour for 50hr/wk for 4+ weeks (I try to work much less than that each week as I can).
Actually, all this has taught me is that I don't care to work in architecture (at least not the architecture that I'm involved in). I hate the environment, that gross commercialism and economic driven mindset. So you do some quality buildings, but you're being fed by retail and office hash outs. It's sickening and I know I know, it's how the world is. Well if that's how it is, I don't want to be involved in it, period.
Please, my fellow archinecters, does anyone have any suggestions? I just don't know if I can afford more education after my M.Arch and to just go into teaching (although that is my prefered option at this point in my life). I have another internship coming up in half a year (and I'm looking to get OUT of the states to do it) and I need to do some better research this time around. I don't want work space buildings, or cold university labs, or over-budgeted museums and institutions. I want to go home at night with the feeling that I DID NOT just sell my soul.
If you love architecture, pay your dues, then find your niche. Nothing truly rewarding comes easy. I have been out of school for 10yrs and still have not found mine yet, but I can see that it is getting closer.
why does everyone who hates architecture or are still in school think they have something to teach immediately upon finishing school? like what and why do you think you have anything to offer? good maya skills? brilliant designer? or are you going to go around teaching people what a miserable career path they have choosen?
sounds like you were in a corporate hell hole - so you would be so suprised how different every practice is - its an onxymoron to work in a practice lots of hours making the world a better place when you dont ever get time to have a life to experience that world.
dont go back to that place for your next session [and stay far away from ANY firm that wants to call you 'an intern']
if you are serious about teaching narrow it down a bit - history + theory? then maybe you go work in a museum something that will build diverse skills. what about construction?
i've talked on other posts about going into an urban sociology/architecture type of teaching path. What I would like is for some suggestions of firms to look at both in the States and outside that offer personal growth and interest and specialize in things such as urban renewal and research, or affordable or community sustainable housing.
If you don't give a damn - get out. But discontent is a powerful factor in change - so maybe it's not you that needs to change - maybe it's the profession. What are you going to do about it?
SBD - I am in the same boat as you are, I really like architecture just not practicing it. I don't think I'm weak for wanting to get out, I think it's smart.
For those that suggest waiting till the satisfaction comes, how long do you really have to wait?
you wait until you get your own project. or, you work for a project you like to work on. or, you find an office where the worthy projects are done according to your values.
i don't think there is ever satisfaction... but some days are better than others.
Hey super, i am trying to give you a little hand here.
i think you should change the place of work. if you can afford it, there is no reason to have your dreams and aspirations abused by some architecture office which doesn't move you. do yourself a favor and get out of there so you can feel better about yourself (it happened to me too).
and, the job could be filled by someone who really needs it and don't mind doing what you hate. you'll be surprised to find how many young people would love to have a job.
maybe being impatient is the way of some youth. but, if you want to age gracefully, you have to learn to deal with impatience i am afraid.
After graduating from what was then called Grad. Design at the AA in London, I endured a decade of... hell, kindof, which I largely escaped/ exacerbated by becoming a full-blown alcoholic. My Grand Plan was to steer away from Glamour Architecture for awhile in order to learn nuts'n'bolts construction and to get my professional accreditation. But my heart wasn't in it. I resented it; resented everything technical, commercial, legal and office-junior-style.
I'm now out the other end: a sobered-up, happy human being with the job title 'architect' running an international team of people. It's still more commercial and less 'meaningful' than my heart likes. I exorcise that creative/expressive need through writing journals, slurping up every kind of cultural enterprise like a vampire and conspicuously spending the modest income I earn pretending I'm some sort of movie star at deluxe hotels around the planet.
There's something distinctly weedy still in the garden of my soul but I excuse it, shamelessly, as experiment. It keeps me sane and, if I get bored with that, I have plenty of memories of insanity to draw on of a dark night.
I'm articulate enough to divide up my delusions into neat little bundles and process them one by one. So what I have is plenty of stuff. My time will come. And so will yours.
you know what though, from experience i can tell you that working for a name is not what it seems, they are many times a royal pain and don't give a shit about your ideas or have no ideas of their own and rely on you to give them a name. i know someone that sent out resumes to several types of firms in minneapolis; small creative types with one or two names, larger corporate firms, generic firms, creative mid-size corporate type, and a couple of larger a&e design build firms. by and large the single proprietors never called - even though they were hiring. when my friend called the few firms that he targeted the acted like they were not worth their time and were for the most part dismissive. i reminded him about the ego's and suggested that they stay away, get their license and do what makes them happy instead of trying to please someone else.
i have a question for the practicing architects on this site; how do you treat unsolicited or solicited job applicants? do you give them the time of day? are you immediately throwing into the do not call pile someone with experience in other project types, simply because you are doing primarily housing? what are you looking for?
beatle what kind of design/architecture are you interested in... commercial, housing, urban design... I know of some quality places to work that are hiring soon. drop me a note
Thanks for the 2 cents everyone. I've just been feeling rather jaded today. The firm that I'm working at (and the internship ends in 1 month) isn't a BAD place to work, per say (I won't name who it is, but it is a large corp. firm). They are probably the best corp. firm out there, they treat their employees well, and they promote growth. But I can't find anything that I feel passionate about there, and as a result I just count how many hours I have left every day.
I'll go back to school and I'll have another internship opportunity for 6 months starting in April. I need to start searching for quality opportunities, because if I don't have a positive experience next time, I'm just going to feel lost. I'm also open to ideas beyond Europe and English speaking countries (of course I don't really know any other languages). South Africa would be at the top of my list actually.
My solution to the professional path alternative is (as stated) to get my PhD or Masters in Urban Sociology when I finish my M.ARch. I'd love to teach and be creative that way, allowing me to only do the projects that I truly feel great about doing.
With that said, I feel that I need to be doing something for the community. Be that in affordable housing, high-density housing, sustainable architecture (and not just LEED certified buildings), or Urban redevelopment. Most of all, I love the research in demographics and social structures of communities, and how architecture helps to shape those. I always say that all architects need to be urban designers. A building needs to be designed within its context, and not just a physical, but a social one as well. I'm most fascinated in studying historical social tendencies of a community, their current economic network, and their welfare and need, and providing a solution, architecturally, to such a problem. As much as the design excites me, so does the preparation.
Above all, I need to feel good about myself and the affect my work has on people when I go home every day. I do not want to design poorly engineered spec office buildings that will one day house a multi-million dollar legal firm. I want something that I can design, have built, and when I'm done, go roll around in enjoyment like a dog in mud!
I find this conversation quite heartbreaking; I've been in the software engineering industry for a number of years and decided that I have to follow another path – architecture. On the other hand, when I read these stories I begin to question my decision – am I making the right choice? Folks, give me reassurance here…
SuperBeatledud - I feel your pain on repetitive and uninteresting work – on numerous occasions I've spent 60 hours a week buried in coding, all while trying to satisfy everyone's objectives (e.g. schedule, budget, requirements). I can't give you advice in the Architecture world, but in my instance, I decided to move to another organization and become a Project Manager & Computing Architect. At least I got out of the repetitive rut; I now work on some extremely interesting projects. I am happy where I am at now, but I still miss the creativity and other aspects of Architecture. That's why I am transitioning to another field. But if I were you, I would take the advice of others like TED and abracadabra - change the place of work. You have to find an architecture office that moves you, and gives you meaningful assignments. I am in the interviewing process and I've been on several interviews with different firms. I am very selective in finding the right firm to work for; and I can certainly spot the firms that would excite and move me – even better, they seem to have a genuine interest in developing new architects. This excites me. On the other hand, I've been on interviews where the firms work is uninspiring, and all they want from me is to sit in a corner and AutoCad all day – not my cup of tea. On the other side, like trace said, following the traditional path is not the only way to go…find you niche. BTW, how many internships have you completed? I hope you are not judging your decision on one or two instances?
Regardless, SuperBeatledud & Strawberry, I feel your pain, but please don't give up. You just need to find your own avenue – do something to change your path and seize the day.
-
I think the place you work for has a lot to do with your attitude. Obviously the position you are in now, it not doing anything for you. You need to move around as much as you can until you find something pleasing. I am 7 years out of school and already am in my 5th emplyment. Kinda sad but I think necessary for my sanity.
school is cool super-b. you might not like it though, once in it as a teacher. but at least it is insulated from the real world.
i don't believe in putting in your dues or any of that crap. at least not when it means you have to suffer and hate your job for ten years. far better to spend ten years suffering in UN studio than HOK or Gensler if you wanna do design...at least then the work will be interesting, though pay and hours will not be as good....
so move on, and be careful where you go...and have fun. life is far too short to hate your days.
SBD, I worked for ten years in a firm that did a lot of church work, a lot of small public historic preservation-renovation type work, nothing super sexy, but also nothing overtly commercial. Every project was unique. The upside of that is every project is new, every solution is specific, it was always interesting. The downside is it is a lot harder to make those jobs profitable, and I was making less salary than others with the same amount of experience in other, more commercial firms. But I felt good about the work I was doing at least 80% of the days I went home exhausted. And the partners were not commercially driven - I mean they wanted to make a decent living, but the sense in the office was much more that we were "fighting the good fight". That can be emotionally draining as well, but as I say, I could pretty much always feel good about the work I was putting out in the world. And that is a huge, huge psychic paycheck.
Those firms exist, but you'll have to find them. I don't know how your internship/school process works, but surely there is a way to define your interests when looking for your next position? You mentioned doing some more research, and that seems like the best way to start.
As for teaching, in Philly (and I imagine lots of other large metropolitan areas) there are lots of adjunct teaching opportunities, but they are contracted semester-to-semester, they don't have benefits, and they pay crap. But they are fun to do! Unfortunately for recent graduates looking to teach, those schools often want their adjuncts to be licensed, as it helps in their accreditation.
Hang in there. You have school again soon, and you'll be able to find somehwere more enlightening to work next time around, I'm sure.
I work for a good firm, I love the people I work with, and the projects are interesting. But it has taken a long time to get to a point where I really began to get some satisfaction. The thing is, as an Architect I want control (don't we all?) and I didn't get it straight out of school, in fact I didn't get it for quite some time (I mean you never really have control it's all an illusion but...). Buildings just take too damn long to get built and require so much tedious work to just get it done right - I've spent the last four years on one project - and it wears you down. The profession lacks the immediate satisfaction of something like sculpture. but that is the nature of the profession.
However, seeing a project built after so much freaking work, after so much self doubt and occsional self loathing. When the people, the public, the user, your mom whatever, are in the space and they are excited, and pointing and talking and touching (the architecture that is) it really is a special moment. But, I have to say, you really need to find a way to make the process be as rewarding as the product, because as long as that building will exist and as proud of it as I may be, it's my life that is the work to be cherished.
Katze don't get down about the profession - it's a matter of understanding what you're working towards and patience. There's lots of grunt work and almost slave labor but I know what I'm working towards and it's want I want. I actually can't really imagine what else I'd do - the profession of architecture just encompasses too much of what I am.
Jump, I never said that I was unhappy with my first 10 yrs. That is the difference. It may not have been the romantic vision that I had coming out of school, but I enjoy all aspects of the profession. (All I have to do is picture myself in any other profession). I have worked in great offices with great people, but the architectural process involves many aspects, not just the "cool" stuff. I have a greater vision and am willing to work towards it.
I have also somewhat separated my passion from my profession. At least, by what I take home emotionally. I am able to use my passion for architecture to make clients happy, but most of my creative paycheck comes from side work and research.
To be honest, I would like to create a clientless architecture. One were buyers purchase finished products, like they would art.
I'm sitting here thinking to myself "Steven Ward is posting a youtube clip, it truly is the end of days..." and was so dismayed that I felt I had to actually watch the clip to see what would prompt him to stoop to youtube...
But oh my god!!! That is the most brilliant choreography I've ever seen! In ONE TAKE!!! Oh my god that was hilarious!!!!!
The simple idea, realized to its extreme: brilliant. Wonderful. Thank you Steven (and sorry vado that I never gush over your youtube clips this much but I admitted that keytar one was pretty funny).
I'm inspired to go to the gym today!! SBD, lie is too short, find your passion and follow it to its logical end even if that means treadmill choreography!!!
given your interested in sociology, affordable housing and urban design you could think about going to work for either a non-profit or government entity...
i know that there are grants given out every year for architects to partner with a non-profit, but i can't remember who issues them...
possibilities would include working your local housing authority in some capacity (maybe project/construction management or in-house architect), or with your city's housing or urban design department, or go work with Cameron Sinclair and AFH somewhere...
if you want to teach architecture, i would recommend finding an office that you can at least live with for a few years until you finish IDP and pass the ARE and then look into teaching... keep in mind that you can earn some IDP credits in the alternative settings, but you will need to work in a regular office for a while to get a lot of the credits (of course this only matters if you want to get licensed)
2nd Vado's comment. there is no job more boring then making a film except security. talk about sitting around doing nothing... and you get fat too with all the junk food at craft-services.
And filmmaking is not art, it is a big business where you have even less creative input then detailing toiet stalls. Stick with the real world of making buildings, you'll make a bigger impact with your life.
Anyone watch scrubs? JD reminds me of myself, with the way that he walks around and totaly day dreams skewed versions of his daily routine. However, he seems to enjoy his work.
SBD- Hang in there-if you are passionate about architecture, you will find your niche...but with that said, it will take work to get there, and dreams don't come easy- it takes time, perseverance, committment, constantly re-evaluating your goals. You may have to spend some time at a job you don't love to get to the job you want. But if you are willing to quit after one internship, maybe it's time for a new goal. You have to realize that this was an internship-they're not going to hand you the reins to take over.
Find a mentor, find someone that is doing what you want to do-find them through reading magazines, checking out websites, whatever, then contact them-most people would be flattered and willing to give advice. But if this is what you really want, don't be turned off by one internship.
Architecture is not all fun and glamorous-it is also a serious business, as is ANY business, whether it is medicine, law, computers, banking, whatever-EVERY career is out to make money, and it's not all fun getting there. Even non-profit work-they have to make money somehow to keep going-which means looking for grants-which involves a lot of tedious work, and finding donors.
I know stair details are not fun-but you won't be doing them forever and if you don't understand how to do that, how are you going to manage the rest of the building? Just don't get discouraged so easily-you've just begun-give it some time.
lifes a package and you cant draw clear lines between one and the other. the things that really count in life and should make us happy help us to manuever through the rest.
when you start to compare youself to someone who daydreams about their work stuff makes me wonder why your not day dreaming about someone who might be the REAL important thing in your life.
i have too many friends who arent really happy in their personal life and burry themselves into work.
and the chicks might not dig you because of the body hair thing.
+, stair details are so important that they don't give you a license unless you pass the stair design section and understand how they work.
yes, stairs have their own section all by themselves and it is the part most people bomb.
to be honest, the day they gave me the stair details to draw in my first job, it was presented to me sort of like a promotion. and it was...
: "and stay far away from ANY firm that wants to call you 'an intern' -- now TED, get serious ... how is that advice going to help anybody ?
by law, an unlicensed architectual graduate cannot be called an architect. the title act in our state includes the following language: "any person wishing to practice architecture in this State under the title of “Architect†shall, before being presented or known as an Architect and before undertaking in any manner to practice architecture in this State, shall make application to the State Board of Architects and Interior Designers and, upon being found qualified by the Board, secure there from a certificate of qualification to practice under the title “Architect†and be duly registered."
so, what else are we going to call 'em, if not 'an intern' ? if that's your criteria for choosing a place to work, you've got some serious "issues"
whatever they call you super, if they are giving you stair details to draw, you 'ARE' somebody.
sure beats making bluelines in the back room breathing amonia all day and being sent to davy jones liquor locker to pick up boss' phone order. oh, that was 6$ an hour... with stairs though, came .5 $ raise and i was given a spot in the vast parking lot and taken to meetings to take notes. the company did designs for hotel chains with bars, restaurants and many other facilities in them. bad designs but next starchitect hired me after one interview because i knew all about f&f design and detailing and stairs, how to apply textures onto walls, co- ordinate thousands of materials and finishes etc.
starchitect's design was looking different on the outside but the insides were all the same like the old firm.
25 years later, i still use the same principles when it comes to cabinets and such.
i think overblown lives of few rock star architects in the media has totally weird impact on new generation of architects. as there are millions of architects in the world, i can only count rock star architects with my fingers and i don't think their lives are so exciting that they trump mine.
hay babs of course i have issues. dont we all? so not a problem. but were not talking someone under the legalezze ramble bamble. and i can look myself in the mirror every day.[although some days i do it cautiously]
having my own practice and work for decades in very senior positions in corp-o-rama world the use of the term 'intern' not ony in architecture but across all industries is a derogatory, slanderous name generally associated with tagging newly or soon to be graduating professionals in order to 'award' that individual with either a no-paying or low-paying position.
i consider any employee gets the same shot to get the coffee, handle the print, do the design, fix the stair details or meet with the client reflecting their individual ability. infact i think some folks coming out of school are far more capable than 15-20 year licensed practictioners i have worked with perhaps because the question things and look freshly at issues.
hay babs of course i have issues. dont we all? so not a problem. but were not talking someone under the legalezze ramble bamble. and i can look myself in the mirror every day.[although some days i do it cautiously]
having my own practice and work for decades in very senior positions in corp-o-rama world the use of the term 'intern' not ony in architecture but across all industries is a derogatory, slanderous name generally associated with tagging newly or soon to be graduating professionals in order to 'award' that individual with either a no-paying or low-paying position.
i consider any employee gets the same shot to get the coffee, handle the print, do the design, fix the stair details or meet with the client reflecting their individual ability. infact i think some folks coming out of school are far more capable than 15-20 year licensed practictioners i have worked with perhaps because the question things and look freshly at issues.
hay babs of course i have issues. dont we all? so not a problem. but were not talking someone under the legalezze ramble bamble. and i can look myself in the mirror every day.[although some days i do it cautiously]
having my own practice and work for decades in very senior positions in corp-o-rama world the use of the term 'intern' not ony in architecture but across all industries is a derogatory, slanderous name generally associated with tagging newly or soon to be graduating professionals in order to 'award' that individual with either a no-paying or low-paying position.
i consider any employee gets the same shot to get the coffee, handle the print, do the design, fix the stair details or meet with the client reflecting their individual ability. infact i think some folks coming out of school are far more capable than 15-20 year licensed practictioners i have worked with perhaps because the question things and look freshly at issues.
speaking of rock stars, anyone hear mick jaegers voice lately?
he's doing his tour in uk now and all over the radio --
not at all the mick i heard in the past. that raspy smokey voice seems to have gone.
i dont think rock star architects age as gracefully either.
I'd like to give a Damn!
I've decided that I can't take it anymore. I don't know what to do with myself, and I'm just counting down the days till my internship is over and I'm back to school.
What have I learned? I've learned that I hate what I do, and I don't do a good job at it as a result. I can't work on stair details every hour for 50hr/wk for 4+ weeks (I try to work much less than that each week as I can).
Actually, all this has taught me is that I don't care to work in architecture (at least not the architecture that I'm involved in). I hate the environment, that gross commercialism and economic driven mindset. So you do some quality buildings, but you're being fed by retail and office hash outs. It's sickening and I know I know, it's how the world is. Well if that's how it is, I don't want to be involved in it, period.
Please, my fellow archinecters, does anyone have any suggestions? I just don't know if I can afford more education after my M.Arch and to just go into teaching (although that is my prefered option at this point in my life). I have another internship coming up in half a year (and I'm looking to get OUT of the states to do it) and I need to do some better research this time around. I don't want work space buildings, or cold university labs, or over-budgeted museums and institutions. I want to go home at night with the feeling that I DID NOT just sell my soul.
I WANT TO GIVE A DAMN!
If you love architecture, pay your dues, then find your niche. Nothing truly rewarding comes easy. I have been out of school for 10yrs and still have not found mine yet, but I can see that it is getting closer.
best advice anyone gave me...
dont get attached emotionally to work.
i say dont get emotionally attached to other peoples work.
beer.
why does everyone who hates architecture or are still in school think they have something to teach immediately upon finishing school? like what and why do you think you have anything to offer? good maya skills? brilliant designer? or are you going to go around teaching people what a miserable career path they have choosen?
sounds like you were in a corporate hell hole - so you would be so suprised how different every practice is - its an onxymoron to work in a practice lots of hours making the world a better place when you dont ever get time to have a life to experience that world.
dont go back to that place for your next session [and stay far away from ANY firm that wants to call you 'an intern']
if you are serious about teaching narrow it down a bit - history + theory? then maybe you go work in a museum something that will build diverse skills. what about construction?
i've talked on other posts about going into an urban sociology/architecture type of teaching path. What I would like is for some suggestions of firms to look at both in the States and outside that offer personal growth and interest and specialize in things such as urban renewal and research, or affordable or community sustainable housing.
If you don't give a damn - get out. But discontent is a powerful factor in change - so maybe it's not you that needs to change - maybe it's the profession. What are you going to do about it?
"patients young man patients. it is a slow moving craft in most cases, you know..."
SBD - I am in the same boat as you are, I really like architecture just not practicing it. I don't think I'm weak for wanting to get out, I think it's smart.
For those that suggest waiting till the satisfaction comes, how long do you really have to wait?
you wait until you get your own project. or, you work for a project you like to work on. or, you find an office where the worthy projects are done according to your values.
i don't think there is ever satisfaction... but some days are better than others.
why do I have to wait, how about I search until I find it...
good idea.
what can I say, I'm young and impatient. So is the way of the youth.
Hey super, i am trying to give you a little hand here.
i think you should change the place of work. if you can afford it, there is no reason to have your dreams and aspirations abused by some architecture office which doesn't move you. do yourself a favor and get out of there so you can feel better about yourself (it happened to me too).
and, the job could be filled by someone who really needs it and don't mind doing what you hate. you'll be surprised to find how many young people would love to have a job.
maybe being impatient is the way of some youth. but, if you want to age gracefully, you have to learn to deal with impatience i am afraid.
After graduating from what was then called Grad. Design at the AA in London, I endured a decade of... hell, kindof, which I largely escaped/ exacerbated by becoming a full-blown alcoholic. My Grand Plan was to steer away from Glamour Architecture for awhile in order to learn nuts'n'bolts construction and to get my professional accreditation. But my heart wasn't in it. I resented it; resented everything technical, commercial, legal and office-junior-style.
I'm now out the other end: a sobered-up, happy human being with the job title 'architect' running an international team of people. It's still more commercial and less 'meaningful' than my heart likes. I exorcise that creative/expressive need through writing journals, slurping up every kind of cultural enterprise like a vampire and conspicuously spending the modest income I earn pretending I'm some sort of movie star at deluxe hotels around the planet.
There's something distinctly weedy still in the garden of my soul but I excuse it, shamelessly, as experiment. It keeps me sane and, if I get bored with that, I have plenty of memories of insanity to draw on of a dark night.
I'm articulate enough to divide up my delusions into neat little bundles and process them one by one. So what I have is plenty of stuff. My time will come. And so will yours.
you know what though, from experience i can tell you that working for a name is not what it seems, they are many times a royal pain and don't give a shit about your ideas or have no ideas of their own and rely on you to give them a name. i know someone that sent out resumes to several types of firms in minneapolis; small creative types with one or two names, larger corporate firms, generic firms, creative mid-size corporate type, and a couple of larger a&e design build firms. by and large the single proprietors never called - even though they were hiring. when my friend called the few firms that he targeted the acted like they were not worth their time and were for the most part dismissive. i reminded him about the ego's and suggested that they stay away, get their license and do what makes them happy instead of trying to please someone else.
i have a question for the practicing architects on this site; how do you treat unsolicited or solicited job applicants? do you give them the time of day? are you immediately throwing into the do not call pile someone with experience in other project types, simply because you are doing primarily housing? what are you looking for?
beatle what kind of design/architecture are you interested in... commercial, housing, urban design... I know of some quality places to work that are hiring soon. drop me a note
Be creative. If you don't like the traditional path, find or make a new one. Working at an architecture firm is not the only choice you have.
ANOTHER CAD MONKEY GONE MAD. HA HA HA
Thanks for the 2 cents everyone. I've just been feeling rather jaded today. The firm that I'm working at (and the internship ends in 1 month) isn't a BAD place to work, per say (I won't name who it is, but it is a large corp. firm). They are probably the best corp. firm out there, they treat their employees well, and they promote growth. But I can't find anything that I feel passionate about there, and as a result I just count how many hours I have left every day.
I'll go back to school and I'll have another internship opportunity for 6 months starting in April. I need to start searching for quality opportunities, because if I don't have a positive experience next time, I'm just going to feel lost. I'm also open to ideas beyond Europe and English speaking countries (of course I don't really know any other languages). South Africa would be at the top of my list actually.
My solution to the professional path alternative is (as stated) to get my PhD or Masters in Urban Sociology when I finish my M.ARch. I'd love to teach and be creative that way, allowing me to only do the projects that I truly feel great about doing.
With that said, I feel that I need to be doing something for the community. Be that in affordable housing, high-density housing, sustainable architecture (and not just LEED certified buildings), or Urban redevelopment. Most of all, I love the research in demographics and social structures of communities, and how architecture helps to shape those. I always say that all architects need to be urban designers. A building needs to be designed within its context, and not just a physical, but a social one as well. I'm most fascinated in studying historical social tendencies of a community, their current economic network, and their welfare and need, and providing a solution, architecturally, to such a problem. As much as the design excites me, so does the preparation.
Above all, I need to feel good about myself and the affect my work has on people when I go home every day. I do not want to design poorly engineered spec office buildings that will one day house a multi-million dollar legal firm. I want something that I can design, have built, and when I'm done, go roll around in enjoyment like a dog in mud!
I find this conversation quite heartbreaking; I've been in the software engineering industry for a number of years and decided that I have to follow another path – architecture. On the other hand, when I read these stories I begin to question my decision – am I making the right choice? Folks, give me reassurance here…
SuperBeatledud - I feel your pain on repetitive and uninteresting work – on numerous occasions I've spent 60 hours a week buried in coding, all while trying to satisfy everyone's objectives (e.g. schedule, budget, requirements). I can't give you advice in the Architecture world, but in my instance, I decided to move to another organization and become a Project Manager & Computing Architect. At least I got out of the repetitive rut; I now work on some extremely interesting projects. I am happy where I am at now, but I still miss the creativity and other aspects of Architecture. That's why I am transitioning to another field. But if I were you, I would take the advice of others like TED and abracadabra - change the place of work. You have to find an architecture office that moves you, and gives you meaningful assignments. I am in the interviewing process and I've been on several interviews with different firms. I am very selective in finding the right firm to work for; and I can certainly spot the firms that would excite and move me – even better, they seem to have a genuine interest in developing new architects. This excites me. On the other hand, I've been on interviews where the firms work is uninspiring, and all they want from me is to sit in a corner and AutoCad all day – not my cup of tea. On the other side, like trace said, following the traditional path is not the only way to go…find you niche. BTW, how many internships have you completed? I hope you are not judging your decision on one or two instances?
Regardless, SuperBeatledud & Strawberry, I feel your pain, but please don't give up. You just need to find your own avenue – do something to change your path and seize the day.
-
I think the place you work for has a lot to do with your attitude. Obviously the position you are in now, it not doing anything for you. You need to move around as much as you can until you find something pleasing. I am 7 years out of school and already am in my 5th emplyment. Kinda sad but I think necessary for my sanity.
school is cool super-b. you might not like it though, once in it as a teacher. but at least it is insulated from the real world.
i don't believe in putting in your dues or any of that crap. at least not when it means you have to suffer and hate your job for ten years. far better to spend ten years suffering in UN studio than HOK or Gensler if you wanna do design...at least then the work will be interesting, though pay and hours will not be as good....
so move on, and be careful where you go...and have fun. life is far too short to hate your days.
what is your major malfunction superbeatledud????
SBD, I worked for ten years in a firm that did a lot of church work, a lot of small public historic preservation-renovation type work, nothing super sexy, but also nothing overtly commercial. Every project was unique. The upside of that is every project is new, every solution is specific, it was always interesting. The downside is it is a lot harder to make those jobs profitable, and I was making less salary than others with the same amount of experience in other, more commercial firms. But I felt good about the work I was doing at least 80% of the days I went home exhausted. And the partners were not commercially driven - I mean they wanted to make a decent living, but the sense in the office was much more that we were "fighting the good fight". That can be emotionally draining as well, but as I say, I could pretty much always feel good about the work I was putting out in the world. And that is a huge, huge psychic paycheck.
Those firms exist, but you'll have to find them. I don't know how your internship/school process works, but surely there is a way to define your interests when looking for your next position? You mentioned doing some more research, and that seems like the best way to start.
As for teaching, in Philly (and I imagine lots of other large metropolitan areas) there are lots of adjunct teaching opportunities, but they are contracted semester-to-semester, they don't have benefits, and they pay crap. But they are fun to do! Unfortunately for recent graduates looking to teach, those schools often want their adjuncts to be licensed, as it helps in their accreditation.
Hang in there. You have school again soon, and you'll be able to find somehwere more enlightening to work next time around, I'm sure.
I work for a good firm, I love the people I work with, and the projects are interesting. But it has taken a long time to get to a point where I really began to get some satisfaction. The thing is, as an Architect I want control (don't we all?) and I didn't get it straight out of school, in fact I didn't get it for quite some time (I mean you never really have control it's all an illusion but...). Buildings just take too damn long to get built and require so much tedious work to just get it done right - I've spent the last four years on one project - and it wears you down. The profession lacks the immediate satisfaction of something like sculpture. but that is the nature of the profession.
However, seeing a project built after so much freaking work, after so much self doubt and occsional self loathing. When the people, the public, the user, your mom whatever, are in the space and they are excited, and pointing and talking and touching (the architecture that is) it really is a special moment. But, I have to say, you really need to find a way to make the process be as rewarding as the product, because as long as that building will exist and as proud of it as I may be, it's my life that is the work to be cherished.
Katze don't get down about the profession - it's a matter of understanding what you're working towards and patience. There's lots of grunt work and almost slave labor but I know what I'm working towards and it's want I want. I actually can't really imagine what else I'd do - the profession of architecture just encompasses too much of what I am.
Thanks for the encouragement LIS...
K
so far i've been resisting the youtube temptation, but this crisis of confidence for superbeatledud is serious.
he needs a little burst of ADRENALIN.
Jump, I never said that I was unhappy with my first 10 yrs. That is the difference. It may not have been the romantic vision that I had coming out of school, but I enjoy all aspects of the profession. (All I have to do is picture myself in any other profession). I have worked in great offices with great people, but the architectural process involves many aspects, not just the "cool" stuff. I have a greater vision and am willing to work towards it.
I have also somewhat separated my passion from my profession. At least, by what I take home emotionally. I am able to use my passion for architecture to make clients happy, but most of my creative paycheck comes from side work and research.
To be honest, I would like to create a clientless architecture. One were buyers purchase finished products, like they would art.
Oh my god! Oh my GOD!!!!!
I'm sitting here thinking to myself "Steven Ward is posting a youtube clip, it truly is the end of days..." and was so dismayed that I felt I had to actually watch the clip to see what would prompt him to stoop to youtube...
But oh my god!!! That is the most brilliant choreography I've ever seen! In ONE TAKE!!! Oh my god that was hilarious!!!!!
The simple idea, realized to its extreme: brilliant. Wonderful. Thank you Steven (and sorry vado that I never gush over your youtube clips this much but I admitted that keytar one was pretty funny).
I'm inspired to go to the gym today!! SBD, lie is too short, find your passion and follow it to its logical end even if that means treadmill choreography!!!
Steven, great youtube link...however all it has done is encouraged me to drop architecture and follow my passion for film!!!!
if u think workin in an office is boring go work on a film set if you are not the director. god how tedious and usually cold.
given your interested in sociology, affordable housing and urban design you could think about going to work for either a non-profit or government entity...
i know that there are grants given out every year for architects to partner with a non-profit, but i can't remember who issues them...
possibilities would include working your local housing authority in some capacity (maybe project/construction management or in-house architect), or with your city's housing or urban design department, or go work with Cameron Sinclair and AFH somewhere...
if you want to teach architecture, i would recommend finding an office that you can at least live with for a few years until you finish IDP and pass the ARE and then look into teaching... keep in mind that you can earn some IDP credits in the alternative settings, but you will need to work in a regular office for a while to get a lot of the credits (of course this only matters if you want to get licensed)
oops-youtube is banned at work...I just got the 'mature content prohibited' screen...someone from IT will probably be by shortly...
S-bug:
2nd Vado's comment. there is no job more boring then making a film except security. talk about sitting around doing nothing... and you get fat too with all the junk food at craft-services.
And filmmaking is not art, it is a big business where you have even less creative input then detailing toiet stalls. Stick with the real world of making buildings, you'll make a bigger impact with your life.
TK, former h-wood slave 1995-2001
great thread. I have similar day to day issues with my place of employment, but I'm confident that I'm in the right profession...
abra, lb and others, your comments encouraging and helpful.
solidred, I enjoyed your story as well. thanks for sharing.
Anyone watch scrubs? JD reminds me of myself, with the way that he walks around and totaly day dreams skewed versions of his daily routine. However, he seems to enjoy his work.
hmmm.....are you certain this is not a woman [man] problem or perhaps a lack of one?
those nasty stair details look mighty fine when the rest of your world is in check!
Maybe I should change my profession to a chain smoken, alcoholic, bike rider.
TED...what makes you say that?
SBD- Hang in there-if you are passionate about architecture, you will find your niche...but with that said, it will take work to get there, and dreams don't come easy- it takes time, perseverance, committment, constantly re-evaluating your goals. You may have to spend some time at a job you don't love to get to the job you want. But if you are willing to quit after one internship, maybe it's time for a new goal. You have to realize that this was an internship-they're not going to hand you the reins to take over.
Find a mentor, find someone that is doing what you want to do-find them through reading magazines, checking out websites, whatever, then contact them-most people would be flattered and willing to give advice. But if this is what you really want, don't be turned off by one internship.
Architecture is not all fun and glamorous-it is also a serious business, as is ANY business, whether it is medicine, law, computers, banking, whatever-EVERY career is out to make money, and it's not all fun getting there. Even non-profit work-they have to make money somehow to keep going-which means looking for grants-which involves a lot of tedious work, and finding donors.
I know stair details are not fun-but you won't be doing them forever and if you don't understand how to do that, how are you going to manage the rest of the building? Just don't get discouraged so easily-you've just begun-give it some time.
lifes a package and you cant draw clear lines between one and the other. the things that really count in life and should make us happy help us to manuever through the rest.
when you start to compare youself to someone who daydreams about their work stuff makes me wonder why your not day dreaming about someone who might be the REAL important thing in your life.
i have too many friends who arent really happy in their personal life and burry themselves into work.
and the chicks might not dig you because of the body hair thing.
If you want to 'design like you give a damn', why not go do some work for Architecture for Humanity?
+, stair details are so important that they don't give you a license unless you pass the stair design section and understand how they work.
yes, stairs have their own section all by themselves and it is the part most people bomb.
to be honest, the day they gave me the stair details to draw in my first job, it was presented to me sort of like a promotion. and it was...
: "and stay far away from ANY firm that wants to call you 'an intern' -- now TED, get serious ... how is that advice going to help anybody ?
by law, an unlicensed architectual graduate cannot be called an architect. the title act in our state includes the following language: "any person wishing to practice architecture in this State under the title of “Architect†shall, before being presented or known as an Architect and before undertaking in any manner to practice architecture in this State, shall make application to the State Board of Architects and Interior Designers and, upon being found qualified by the Board, secure there from a certificate of qualification to practice under the title “Architect†and be duly registered."
so, what else are we going to call 'em, if not 'an intern' ? if that's your criteria for choosing a place to work, you've got some serious "issues"
Cameron, are you hiring?
whatever they call you super, if they are giving you stair details to draw, you 'ARE' somebody.
sure beats making bluelines in the back room breathing amonia all day and being sent to davy jones liquor locker to pick up boss' phone order. oh, that was 6$ an hour... with stairs though, came .5 $ raise and i was given a spot in the vast parking lot and taken to meetings to take notes. the company did designs for hotel chains with bars, restaurants and many other facilities in them. bad designs but next starchitect hired me after one interview because i knew all about f&f design and detailing and stairs, how to apply textures onto walls, co- ordinate thousands of materials and finishes etc.
starchitect's design was looking different on the outside but the insides were all the same like the old firm.
25 years later, i still use the same principles when it comes to cabinets and such.
i think overblown lives of few rock star architects in the media has totally weird impact on new generation of architects. as there are millions of architects in the world, i can only count rock star architects with my fingers and i don't think their lives are so exciting that they trump mine.
hay babs of course i have issues. dont we all? so not a problem. but were not talking someone under the legalezze ramble bamble. and i can look myself in the mirror every day.[although some days i do it cautiously]
having my own practice and work for decades in very senior positions in corp-o-rama world the use of the term 'intern' not ony in architecture but across all industries is a derogatory, slanderous name generally associated with tagging newly or soon to be graduating professionals in order to 'award' that individual with either a no-paying or low-paying position.
i consider any employee gets the same shot to get the coffee, handle the print, do the design, fix the stair details or meet with the client reflecting their individual ability. infact i think some folks coming out of school are far more capable than 15-20 year licensed practictioners i have worked with perhaps because the question things and look freshly at issues.
and
hay babs of course i have issues. dont we all? so not a problem. but were not talking someone under the legalezze ramble bamble. and i can look myself in the mirror every day.[although some days i do it cautiously]
having my own practice and work for decades in very senior positions in corp-o-rama world the use of the term 'intern' not ony in architecture but across all industries is a derogatory, slanderous name generally associated with tagging newly or soon to be graduating professionals in order to 'award' that individual with either a no-paying or low-paying position.
i consider any employee gets the same shot to get the coffee, handle the print, do the design, fix the stair details or meet with the client reflecting their individual ability. infact i think some folks coming out of school are far more capable than 15-20 year licensed practictioners i have worked with perhaps because the question things and look freshly at issues.
and speaking of
hay babs of course i have issues. dont we all? so not a problem. but were not talking someone under the legalezze ramble bamble. and i can look myself in the mirror every day.[although some days i do it cautiously]
having my own practice and work for decades in very senior positions in corp-o-rama world the use of the term 'intern' not ony in architecture but across all industries is a derogatory, slanderous name generally associated with tagging newly or soon to be graduating professionals in order to 'award' that individual with either a no-paying or low-paying position.
i consider any employee gets the same shot to get the coffee, handle the print, do the design, fix the stair details or meet with the client reflecting their individual ability. infact i think some folks coming out of school are far more capable than 15-20 year licensed practictioners i have worked with perhaps because the question things and look freshly at issues.
and speaking of rock
ooops. computer [user] gone crazy!
speaking of rock stars, anyone hear mick jaegers voice lately?
he's doing his tour in uk now and all over the radio --
not at all the mick i heard in the past. that raspy smokey voice seems to have gone.
i dont think rock star architects age as gracefully either.
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