"Custom" versus "Premium" is a qualitative distinction in the AWI Architectural Woodwork Quality Standards. Premium Grade is a higher standard of quality and workmanship than "Custom". Both are grades applicable for Custom Cabinetry.
So, as I crack open my current edition, as an example for an exposed panel product with transparent finish:
"Premium" grade calls for an "AA" Face Veneer well matched for grain and color with a continuous vertical figure and selection of pleasing blend of figure and color per elevation.
"Custom" grade calls for an "A" Face Veneer with warehouse stock panels, compatible for color, with continuous vertical figure across doors of individual cabinet (may be without sequence matching).
It really is important to obtain the book and list the grade in your specifications because it is a great tool to define your expectations.
Thanks tyvek. That all sounds familiar from my last job, where we would list Custom grade and let the contractor price various manufacturers.
In my current office we rarely use specs. I do a basic 3-4 page outline spec for pricing that typically names the cabinet manufacturer we are using, and often an allowance, because we've already worked out with the owner what they want and have a budget number to work with, be it $15,000 for Kraftmaid or $75,000 for ArcLinea.
According to those specs, though, the Neff kitchen I just spec'd would be Premium or even higher (is there?), as it was all made to order: custom paint finish, custom wood sequence-matched horizontal grain. Quality is beautiful and service on the order has been tremendous. A more typical kitchen project for us would be Custom.
Ah. For context, our cabinetry section alone in our spec books are more than 5 pages.
I typically refer to any cabinetry that comes from a company (ie. Neff, Krafmade, Woodmode, Rutt etc) as a "Stock" cabinet. I realize that they say that they are custom and most of the world would consider them custom and I don't mean "stock" in a derogatory way.
We work in a little pocket of the world with an incredible amount of wealth, so all of our cabinetry is Custom, meaning we design whatever we want (ie. any profile shape that you can think of for the sticking, mixing wood/metals, single runs of cabinetry as long as you want without any breaks, etc.) and have a cabinetmaker make it to our design and specs. So, spec'ing the grade is very important to us. And, no, Premium is the highest grade.
The book is pretty interesting anyway, contains great info on not only cabinetry, but running trim.
It sounds like a book I could disappear into for an entire workday, like the Hafele catalogue...
Agreed, in truth all of our cabinet manufacturers make "stock" cabinets, in that they have predetermined box sizes, etc. We also do total custom kitchens, including the kitchen of my partner's house where I currently sit. There is nothing like total custom, but it tends to be not only expensive but a LOT more work for us. Though again, in that case we are working directly with the cabinet maker who we already have a relationship with ourselves, so we don't "need" a spec, though it never hurts. We just aren't that formal unless we are working with a contractor we don't know.
Sorry for the threadjacking guys but maybe this conversation about cabinets is now something someone can say they learned at work today? ;-)
My boss likes to use the word "neo-traditional" to describe the style that I am supposed to be designing too. he just used it about 9 times in our 15 minute conversation about design.
I believe our definitions of what "neo-traditional" means are entirely different.
Wow - thanks for the detailed explanation, tyvek. That's far more information than I could have provided to liberty bell's question. It was explained to me in this way in a recent lunch 'n learn by a premium veneer'er:
Custom: The veneer guy starts with a piece of wood and applies it in a semi-random fashion. There is no guarantee that the edges will be bookmatched (which was the case in your cabinet photo, liberty bell), but all of the wood comes from the same flitch.
Premium: All of the seams are bookmatched. Let's say you have a wall with 9 2' x 2' panels. Each joint (top, bottom, left, and right) will be bookmatched. And if a reception desk aligns with the end of the panel, the veneer on it will be bookmatched, too.
It seems counter-intuitive that "custom" would be less expensive than "premium," but it is.
On our interior finish schedule, we called for premium wood panels in the office lobby of the project I'm working on. I don't think our client understood the price difference between custom and premium when we offered it as a VE item, so he deleted exterior facade articulation instead. Bummer. But at least the lobby will look great.
I digress. Yes, I did learn something about wood this week from this discussion. Thanks.
wow, Thrifty Acres, that's sounds intriguing - can you elaborate? I've benefited immensely from the actual connective powers of Archinect, myself...
I learned that my tolerance for working out framing details on site is significantly longer and my contributions significantly stronger if I am wearing 2" heels instead of 3-1/2" heels.
lb - I like what you learned this week however, if you were to wear a pair of hot 3-1/2" heel boots to my job site, you may learn that everyone on site will figure it out for you...or ogle your ass. (sorry, it's true)
I can not elaborate but let's just say, it is a powerful tool that can either help you or hurt you...
Be carefull what you post...but don't hesitate either...
Thrifty, thanks for your concern, but I'm an old woman and can handle any potential for ogling as I need to. I was simply talking about comfort - there's a reason people who stand up all day wear comfortable shoes.
Plus, my most important jobsite rule is respect the craftsman which includes listening to their input when discussing how to do something. A cabinet installer saved me today by making a very simple suggestion - it doesn't matter what anyone wears as long as we are all listening to each other's expertise.
And I still want to know about your connected-ness experience.
I agree w/ mdler, i don't want to be an architect any longer also!
actually , doing real architecture on the side would be OK, i'm thinking of getting into te forensic architecture business, i have contacts there. what's more, there is no drawing!
i'm 48 and tired of the constant hurry up and slow down mentality, constant arguing with cm's, "value engineering", lousy benefits, bad job security, etc.
Developers have a new buzz word - "Psychodemographics".... I've heard it come out of a developers market analysis twice in two weeks...
Psychodemographics are the counterpart to demographics. Psychodemographics indicate the lifestyles of the demographics discusses, essentially allowing them to better understand WHO the consumers are, WHAT they are looking for and HOW they look for it..
This info is used to determine retail offerings that would be demanded at any given site or what type of consumer would be attracted to a given site based on the retail offerings..
so developers and communities are doing everything they can to figure out how to attract culturally sophisticated singles and young families that have money to spend...
I stumbled upon a Town that has a great planning tool a web based
mapping system where you can look at just about everything except the property owners wife....just kidding. Great inland wetland maps,
aieral photos, property distances, lot areas, abutting land owner information....just lots and lots of good information. Hoping to see alot of this stuff moving into other Towns and Cities in our area.
Going to start making cheese (the edible kind, not the JZ kind, although hopefully I will end up making the JZ kind by making the edible kind) and guitars
...this week I also learned that my boss trusts my opinion on hiring interns into our office, yet I'm still an intern...
...and that when someone fresh out of school asks you if you like what you do, it is incredibly difficult to restrain oneself from telling him to RUN far far away from this biz. and go to professional bar tending school...
Today, I admitted to the project architect on our team, "I just don't share your love of sheet metal details." In response, he said, "I just don't share your love of writing emails and memos."
Oh, on to the subject at hand. I learned that sometimes your boss appreciates you more than you realize. Some bosses are not good at recognition (verbal or otherwise) but today my boss said a lot of nice things about me in a staff meeting which made me all warm and fuzzy inside. Ok, I'm not buying it – (pessimistic side coming out) What's on the horizon…I have my suspicions it’s a shity assignment no one else wants to do:)
katze, i never buy anything my boss says....maybe some...he gave me a card for my birthday and it said some nice things in there...i bought it for a few minutes...but when it's back to work, i feel like he secretly wants to fire me...but that's psychological on my side
Pre BREEAM assesment for new build.
More AutoCAD 2007
More Buzzsaw
More Conisio management software
3 under par on the office attrium putting green (par 18)
Bots-
I've been looking for BREEAM Criteria on the web, but they keep it underlock and key till you register. Can you email me a copy of the guidelines? Many thanks.
I've learned that it's better to leave the salary figure up to the potential firm, then to provide a $$ amount early on. I scared too many firms away by stating what I'd be earning in another city and asking for their help translating that to the local market...
I learned today that it is not beyond my client to ascribe his own opinion of the contractor's failings to me in a letter to the contractor. In other words, my client said to me "I think Builder Bob is a dingnut", then wrote a letter to Builder Bob in which he says "liberty bell is wondering why you are such a dingnut on our job?" Sigh.
Also, I learned that excavation contractors are likely to think that a woman architect won't understand their little double entendre use of the words "Nice bush" when discussing which plant material is to be removed. It was so Beavis and Butthead-ish I didn't even get mad.
WTF. I can't wait for this job to be done. At least it's going to look cool.
Why are hardhats so juvenile? Do they want to get fired? It's not like they talk that way to their wives or daughters, so what makes it OK for them to say these things on the job???
Now I'm sounding like my radical girly-girl feminest wife, but these things piss off guys like me too.
Why are hardhats so juvenile? Do they want to get fired? It's not like they talk that way to their wives or daughters, so what makes it OK for them to say these things on the job???
Now I'm sounding like my radical girly-girl feminest wife, but these things piss off guys like me too.
I had a contractor ask me today I I had installed any Marvin Windows recently. I responded, "I have never installed any windows in my life." He just gave me a real blank look. I then said I have drawn alot of window installations in my life, so what is the problem. Turned out he didn't what the window installation instructions. Just the little sticker they put on the window, so I called the Marvin Distributor and he came out and low an behold they only send one set of installation instructions with all of the windows they send to the site, and the contractor hadn't found them before giving me a call. Used to be they sent out a set with each window. Hopefully he took them home to read this evening.
So what did we learn at the office this week??
...is there still money in the budget for the green neon's under the soffit because damn...that is going to look great from Lake Mich. as boats pass.
mhopkins, you wouldn't be talking about AGB, would you?
...this week I learned that I should change my username so meow doesn't know who i am
...and Chili Davis
Liberty Bell.
"Custom" versus "Premium" is a qualitative distinction in the AWI Architectural Woodwork Quality Standards. Premium Grade is a higher standard of quality and workmanship than "Custom". Both are grades applicable for Custom Cabinetry.
So, as I crack open my current edition, as an example for an exposed panel product with transparent finish:
"Premium" grade calls for an "AA" Face Veneer well matched for grain and color with a continuous vertical figure and selection of pleasing blend of figure and color per elevation.
"Custom" grade calls for an "A" Face Veneer with warehouse stock panels, compatible for color, with continuous vertical figure across doors of individual cabinet (may be without sequence matching).
It really is important to obtain the book and list the grade in your specifications because it is a great tool to define your expectations.
mhopkins is her name "Material Girl?"
Thanks tyvek. That all sounds familiar from my last job, where we would list Custom grade and let the contractor price various manufacturers.
In my current office we rarely use specs. I do a basic 3-4 page outline spec for pricing that typically names the cabinet manufacturer we are using, and often an allowance, because we've already worked out with the owner what they want and have a budget number to work with, be it $15,000 for Kraftmaid or $75,000 for ArcLinea.
According to those specs, though, the Neff kitchen I just spec'd would be Premium or even higher (is there?), as it was all made to order: custom paint finish, custom wood sequence-matched horizontal grain. Quality is beautiful and service on the order has been tremendous. A more typical kitchen project for us would be Custom.
Ah. For context, our cabinetry section alone in our spec books are more than 5 pages.
I typically refer to any cabinetry that comes from a company (ie. Neff, Krafmade, Woodmode, Rutt etc) as a "Stock" cabinet. I realize that they say that they are custom and most of the world would consider them custom and I don't mean "stock" in a derogatory way.
We work in a little pocket of the world with an incredible amount of wealth, so all of our cabinetry is Custom, meaning we design whatever we want (ie. any profile shape that you can think of for the sticking, mixing wood/metals, single runs of cabinetry as long as you want without any breaks, etc.) and have a cabinetmaker make it to our design and specs. So, spec'ing the grade is very important to us. And, no, Premium is the highest grade.
The book is pretty interesting anyway, contains great info on not only cabinetry, but running trim.
It sounds like a book I could disappear into for an entire workday, like the Hafele catalogue...
Agreed, in truth all of our cabinet manufacturers make "stock" cabinets, in that they have predetermined box sizes, etc. We also do total custom kitchens, including the kitchen of my partner's house where I currently sit. There is nothing like total custom, but it tends to be not only expensive but a LOT more work for us. Though again, in that case we are working directly with the cabinet maker who we already have a relationship with ourselves, so we don't "need" a spec, though it never hurts. We just aren't that formal unless we are working with a contractor we don't know.
Sorry for the threadjacking guys but maybe this conversation about cabinets is now something someone can say they learned at work today? ;-)
My boss likes to use the word "neo-traditional" to describe the style that I am supposed to be designing too. he just used it about 9 times in our 15 minute conversation about design.
I believe our definitions of what "neo-traditional" means are entirely different.
Wow - thanks for the detailed explanation, tyvek. That's far more information than I could have provided to liberty bell's question. It was explained to me in this way in a recent lunch 'n learn by a premium veneer'er:
Custom: The veneer guy starts with a piece of wood and applies it in a semi-random fashion. There is no guarantee that the edges will be bookmatched (which was the case in your cabinet photo, liberty bell), but all of the wood comes from the same flitch.
Premium: All of the seams are bookmatched. Let's say you have a wall with 9 2' x 2' panels. Each joint (top, bottom, left, and right) will be bookmatched. And if a reception desk aligns with the end of the panel, the veneer on it will be bookmatched, too.
It seems counter-intuitive that "custom" would be less expensive than "premium," but it is.
On our interior finish schedule, we called for premium wood panels in the office lobby of the project I'm working on. I don't think our client understood the price difference between custom and premium when we offered it as a VE item, so he deleted exterior facade articulation instead. Bummer. But at least the lobby will look great.
I digress. Yes, I did learn something about wood this week from this discussion. Thanks.
...I learned about the actual connective powers of Archinect...
wow, Thrifty Acres, that's sounds intriguing - can you elaborate? I've benefited immensely from the actual connective powers of Archinect, myself...
I learned that my tolerance for working out framing details on site is significantly longer and my contributions significantly stronger if I am wearing 2" heels instead of 3-1/2" heels.
lb - I like what you learned this week however, if you were to wear a pair of hot 3-1/2" heel boots to my job site, you may learn that everyone on site will figure it out for you...or ogle your ass. (sorry, it's true)
I can not elaborate but let's just say, it is a powerful tool that can either help you or hurt you...
Be carefull what you post...but don't hesitate either...
that I dont want to be an architect any longer
Start teaching yoga, perhaps, mdler?
Thrifty, thanks for your concern, but I'm an old woman and can handle any potential for ogling as I need to. I was simply talking about comfort - there's a reason people who stand up all day wear comfortable shoes.
Plus, my most important jobsite rule is respect the craftsman which includes listening to their input when discussing how to do something. A cabinet installer saved me today by making a very simple suggestion - it doesn't matter what anyone wears as long as we are all listening to each other's expertise.
And I still want to know about your connected-ness experience.
I agree w/ mdler, i don't want to be an architect any longer also!
actually , doing real architecture on the side would be OK, i'm thinking of getting into te forensic architecture business, i have contacts there. what's more, there is no drawing!
i'm 48 and tired of the constant hurry up and slow down mentality, constant arguing with cm's, "value engineering", lousy benefits, bad job security, etc.
Developers have a new buzz word - "Psychodemographics".... I've heard it come out of a developers market analysis twice in two weeks...
Psychodemographics are the counterpart to demographics. Psychodemographics indicate the lifestyles of the demographics discusses, essentially allowing them to better understand WHO the consumers are, WHAT they are looking for and HOW they look for it..
This info is used to determine retail offerings that would be demanded at any given site or what type of consumer would be attracted to a given site based on the retail offerings..
so developers and communities are doing everything they can to figure out how to attract culturally sophisticated singles and young families that have money to spend...
sorry typo above... the "Psychodemographics are the counterpart to the demographics discusseD"
I stumbled upon a Town that has a great planning tool a web based
mapping system where you can look at just about everything except the property owners wife....just kidding. Great inland wetland maps,
aieral photos, property distances, lot areas, abutting land owner information....just lots and lots of good information. Hoping to see alot of this stuff moving into other Towns and Cities in our area.
Going to start making cheese (the edible kind, not the JZ kind, although hopefully I will end up making the JZ kind by making the edible kind) and guitars
that the word 'masturbate' is in the predictive-text text message dictionary on my cel phone
that I spent more time on Archinect than Auto-Cad
...this week I also learned that my boss trusts my opinion on hiring interns into our office, yet I'm still an intern...
...and that when someone fresh out of school asks you if you like what you do, it is incredibly difficult to restrain oneself from telling him to RUN far far away from this biz. and go to professional bar tending school...
lb - can't, sorry
that an In-and-Out double double animal style gives me the farts...
SMACK YA? No, SMACNA
Today, I admitted to the project architect on our team, "I just don't share your love of sheet metal details." In response, he said, "I just don't share your love of writing emails and memos."
Well played, Mr. PA.
In-in-out kicks butt…
Oh, on to the subject at hand. I learned that sometimes your boss appreciates you more than you realize. Some bosses are not good at recognition (verbal or otherwise) but today my boss said a lot of nice things about me in a staff meeting which made me all warm and fuzzy inside. Ok, I'm not buying it – (pessimistic side coming out) What's on the horizon…I have my suspicions it’s a shity assignment no one else wants to do:)
It's all relative. i love my job.
katze, i never buy anything my boss says....maybe some...he gave me a card for my birthday and it said some nice things in there...i bought it for a few minutes...but when it's back to work, i feel like he secretly wants to fire me...but that's psychological on my side
dammson, I don't want to fire you.
Ah ha ha ha ha!!! I kid I kid.
But seriosly folks. If you want to type aimlessly like me. Do it safely from your home. Not behind a wheel. And vote.
This week
Pre BREEAM assesment for new build.
More AutoCAD 2007
More Buzzsaw
More Conisio management software
3 under par on the office attrium putting green (par 18)
you are right dammson - bosses shouldn't be trusted :)
Bots-
I've been looking for BREEAM Criteria on the web, but they keep it underlock and key till you register. Can you email me a copy of the guidelines? Many thanks.
I've learned that it's better to leave the salary figure up to the potential firm, then to provide a $$ amount early on. I scared too many firms away by stating what I'd be earning in another city and asking for their help translating that to the local market...
I'll see what i can find on the system
Enjoying what you do is more important than any other aspect of a job. Having coffee readily available is a close second.
garpike, some wise words there.
I learned today that it is not beyond my client to ascribe his own opinion of the contractor's failings to me in a letter to the contractor. In other words, my client said to me "I think Builder Bob is a dingnut", then wrote a letter to Builder Bob in which he says "liberty bell is wondering why you are such a dingnut on our job?" Sigh.
Also, I learned that excavation contractors are likely to think that a woman architect won't understand their little double entendre use of the words "Nice bush" when discussing which plant material is to be removed. It was so Beavis and Butthead-ish I didn't even get mad.
WTF. I can't wait for this job to be done. At least it's going to look cool.
Why are hardhats so juvenile? Do they want to get fired? It's not like they talk that way to their wives or daughters, so what makes it OK for them to say these things on the job???
Now I'm sounding like my radical girly-girl feminest wife, but these things piss off guys like me too.
Why are hardhats so juvenile? Do they want to get fired? It's not like they talk that way to their wives or daughters, so what makes it OK for them to say these things on the job???
Now I'm sounding like my radical girly-girl feminest wife, but these things piss off guys like me too.
its not a bush, its a shrub...
i learned the word 'dingnut' and how to use it with reference to contractors. that should come in handy.
Ha, Steven, that's an Angus word...
I had a contractor ask me today I I had installed any Marvin Windows recently. I responded, "I have never installed any windows in my life." He just gave me a real blank look. I then said I have drawn alot of window installations in my life, so what is the problem. Turned out he didn't what the window installation instructions. Just the little sticker they put on the window, so I called the Marvin Distributor and he came out and low an behold they only send one set of installation instructions with all of the windows they send to the site, and the contractor hadn't found them before giving me a call. Used to be they sent out a set with each window. Hopefully he took them home to read this evening.
that a spinach / steak / breakfast burrito gives me the farts
mdler, did your coworkers also learn that lesson?
that I look good naked
You've learned a lot recently, Mdler.
I learned that i really don't play well with others and am really tired of being an intern already. But I love my job.
it sucks when I'm having a good day and everyone else has PMS.
Chili, my copy of that image flat-out says "Architect" above the all-white guy!
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