i would be out of here if i wasn't going to grad school.... i swear...detroit sucks...... no work..... nothing creative here.... same ol' bull........ economy sucks...... firms tend to be picky on hiring and pass up the creative ones......... makes me wonder..... i don't blame all my shorties for leavin'...i should have left tooo...... maybe i should now....or what....wtf........ grad school or cali.....this or that..... winters or oceans...... nnnnn-zzzoottttttttttt
cheap cheap cheap........ look at most of the shyt going up too downtown...some is decent but the new stuff makes me wonder.....
we need more raves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and happy glow sticks and caprices and monties on 24" rizzims
i documented downtown since i was going to build a model to possibly sell to a large firm/university and took me about 4 months to cad it up and take pics.....but anyways, there is ALOT of vacant space down there...... just google earth it and you'll see......
yo - i never left. don't be a hater - , i'll come back and shoot you, plus i'll use my numchucks. go to gradschool. you and garza. don't go to sci-arc either, i'll stab you if you do. flock east.
actually if you can find a good job, detroit is great. its cheap, and it has pretty much everything, if your willing to drive. i'd compare my lifestyle in the detroit area to that of phoenix. that said, you are probably better off going somewhere where there are jobs. it took me a lot of interviews just to find one in a2. but detroit isn't that bad if you have a good job and some dough.
it was actually a surprisingly good job, and the architecture was surprisingly good. i was working on a new central bus/people mover station on michigan and cass...it was delayed 18 months though, so sometime in the next 4-6 months when they start construction they might be hiring.
it was great, design build stuff but they are professors so their office is really just a side thing and they don't pay a lot.
i interviewed here, in northville
http://v-gstudio.com/
that is my favorite firm in the area
be careful around a2, it is always saturated with recent graduates and it can be pretty cutthroat. the best work getting done is just by umich profs who tend to hire on a project to project basis, you know what i mean.
yeah, if you don't get lucky and find connections somehow it's really hard to find a good job here in detroit. this place is a hole and i can't wait to get out. speaking as someone who was born and raised in the area, i find the lack of energy and spirit to be very draining and disenchanting.
you would think with the open space, there would be projects..... but this city works backwards....... large historical building get torn down when shyt building go up...... road work and boulavards (sp)...for what.... street scape?..... and i heard the new ymca is falling apart already...... the one kennedy building sucks........campus martius makes me pissed when i get caught in the damn circle jerk...... not a bad idea but traffic still gets all bunched up there.......
and the loft spaces going for 300-400,000 for the cheapest...wtf.... it's detroit....... i can buy a building and open up shop for that price....
yeah, the loft boom is disgusting. i had this discussion with a friend of mine not too long ago. in any other city these things would be called apartments, and all these developers are going to saturate the market and not sell a single unit.
you would think a couple creative minds would be able to get together and do some really good stuff with all the empty/deteriorating lots, but i think it is impossible to get anything started. red tape/money/lack of interest kills anything worth doing, and all detroit ends up with is one kennedy square, compuware, and more empty lots. it is still a great place to explore, and you never know when you are going to find something beautiful among the trash. i am also leaving at the end of the summer, but i still hope detroit can turn the corner. i have only been here four years, but i have a special connection with the city that is hard to ignore. part of me is going to miss it, but i am sure it will be exactly the same as i left it if i ever decide to come back.
^ 'but i have a special connection with the city that is hard to ignore. part of me is going to miss it, but i am sure it will be exactly the same as i left it if i ever decide to come back'
erasmus, i felt the same way. that all changed when i got out of there. i think i had a similar mentality to how prisoners justify and even get attached to their life behind bars. oh the freedom after i escaped!
btw, lafayette park is amazing though. no other city i know of can you live in a mies building with a glass wall overlooking the downtowns of two cities in different countries (and a river to boot) for less than $400 a month.
the link is probably why i'm still here....like a force..... the more i try to leave, the more bad shyt happens to me..... one day ....... i could just open up a mini shop here and trick myself to move to cali for a minute then stay....... but i have a few reasons for staying now....
i had a few friends up in the towers and the only thing i hated was the smell of the place.........
and i thought the super was suppose to entice people to move to detroit....... and the other thing is that there really isn't any food/markets downtown to get something after 8pm..... eastern market on the weekends but you would think that a medium sized store downtown would make sense...
Detroit fascinates me. No other city in America has seen a population exodus like that town has. What do you expect from a city that lost 1 million residents in the past 50 years. It's a modern day ghost town...almost. 237 - don't feel bad about wanting to leave. Plenty have done it ahead of you.
le bossman....I would vote for NORTH DAKOTA....WHERE THE STATE TREE IS A TELEPHONE POLE. It is far better than New Jersey. It infact has even one over on Bruce it has Lawrence Welk.
Detroit is a pit, a total trainwreck of a city, every bad urban design decision overshadowed ten years later by another even worse urban design decision.
But if I had to choose where to live, I'd pick the Detroit metro area over any part of New Jersey in a heartbeat.
237, taking this post away from Detroit, let me ask you something about your website and portfolio, that i just saw thru your profile- i dont want to be sounding mean or condescending etc, just some frank questions-
It is really a surprise to me that you showcase only your modelmaking, furniture, product work on your site. Honestly, what is it on your website that a prospective employer will hire you for? Unless you are looking for work in a model shop or a furniture workshop....
Dont you think your portfolio should show some actual architectural design work that shows your design abilities, as well skills that would be desirable for an employer to hire you? You might have covered these bases in your print portfolio etc, but just my 2 cents.
i have some basic drawings i did when in the firms but that was in 1999-2001........ i left the firms and got into construction/model building/etc..... i figured the best way to learn about architecture was to actually do it...understand the built process and materials..... sure, we all can design it but do you actaully know the process of having something made or built and the see the reasons why budgets/architects/engineers/contracts are always fighting.......
i wanted to start a design/build shop/firm in detroit...... i started a mini shop and designed/built all the work on mite.... i became a registered builder in michigan and was insured for 2 mill..... i was trying to create something that wasn't really happening here..... due to slow work, i landed a carpentry job in ann arbor and worked out there for 2 years or so..... the client had a few houses and an unlimited budget.... i did rough/finish carpentry and a bit of this and that here and there........
after a knee surgury 1.5 years ago, i really couldnt go back into the construction side as much... so i'm searching for a creative office that can utilize my thought process that i have between construction/design ....... nothing in detroit
besides all that...it gets to me that a firm tends to pick at the bad side of things...such as...you don't know 3d studio/max...etc...... but yet i think i can hold my own in design/detailing....... i might not have all the presentation qualities to make a design look hot....... it's really frustrating when everyone around me says that they like my work and that i have some sort of talent but yet the field that i went to school for and tried to make it in doesn't really support at all...
i do the model building since i used to work for a local model shop.... i seen the cash and decided that i could do it to pay off my student loans... it's not like i was out to get him or anything, i just seen the cash that's all..... i'm more interested in design build/furniture design..... reason being is that with a model, it's really only used for presentation and display then tucked away in the closet or tossed out..... all that work for a short time period..... i want my furniture ideas to stay around and entice an interior........ furniture tends to be taken care of and passed on through generations/etc.... has more value really..... plus a better conversation piece...... look at all the furniture that was designed in the past by architects....but it seems to have gone to the i.d. people now
i'm sure we all have our own story but i'm at the point where i would just rather operate a forklift and get my weekly check and not struggle with design and creating ideas...... tooo stressful and at this point, money is a factor now.......
told her that i came from detroit city
and i played guitar in a long haired rock n roll band
she asked me why th e singers name was alice
i said listen baby you really wouldnt understand...
gotta leave the city to make something happen?..... seems like that tends to be the thing here.... get more support out of the city than in the city....wtf
well you can submit a resume to my firm if you want, we're kind of always hiring and never hiring. its good design-build work though, but you have to move to montana. our website isn't finished, but:
back to detroit.... we all know its such a crap hole and the finest example of automobility destroing a city (ironically the creation destroying its creator), but as architects and urban designers it should be our role to restore detroits urbarn fabric. What really pisses me off is when i ask people where they're going after school and they look at me like i'm crazy, then respond "new york, like who wouldn't go to new york!!!." Well F them up the a-- because new york is a great city... but already over-gentrified. Artists and designers (as well as gays) have traditionally been the catalysts for urban growth and gentrification, making areas safer/trendy for yuppies who then come and outprice the artist designers who move on to another dilapitated area, then the cycle repeats itself while minorities just seem to be displaced again and again in the process.
As architects we seem to transverse the artist yuppie bridge because we're are creative but also professional (im generalizing)and most importantly we have some power/say/understanding of the built environment. So when i tell my fellow artists to think of moving to a poorer city, or blighted area they think im crazy. Also since their parents are (mostly) wealthy (im generalizing the private art school body) they have the ability to be upwardly mobile and go to the city of their choice, which is usually new york because of its great oppurtunities, trendiness. This contrasts/ replaces "true" starving artists are the ones in the traditional role as the beginings of urban rennaisance or gentrification, depending on how postive/negativley you look at it.
I know im not making much sense and my thoughts are not really comming together but what im trying to say is that detroit can make a come back just as easily (difficult) as new york did from the rough 1970's, or various other cities did: providence, chicago, etc. I guess im just upset that people are bashing detroit, instead of looking at it as an oppurtunity to be architects with a social responsibility instead of just seeking recognition in a city like new york. And i do understand there are a varitey of forces in detroit that are prohibiting architects from working there yet from this thread the reall reasons architects turn their back on the city has to do with their on elitist attitudes.
rizzdizzl, while i'm all for the restoration of detroit, the problem is a lot more complex than just the automobile factor, or one that architects and designers can solve spatially. true, after 40 years of "renaissance," urban renewal in detroit is finally starting to make some headway. but detroit has a long way to go. the problems that detroit has involve racism, class, industry, government policy, culture, planning, perception, it goes on and on. solutions to these problems are way beyond what most architects are capable of. i think architects have a hand in the solution to detroit's problem, but it is a relatively small contribution. there are plenty of idealistic designers who've attempted to set up shop in detroit with the best of intentions who've gone bust. and plenty of students and faculty from the detroit area's four architecture schools (some of the best in the country) have tried to propose schemes that seek to solve these issues or at least bring them to light, but inevitably most of them are hair brained schemes that could never possibly come to fruition in the real Detroit. i love detroit, i know i'll keep going back in some way or another, but it is a real, solid mess, along with all of eastern michigan for that matter. it basically results from 50 years of bad decisions and lack of foresight on the behalf of the citizens, governmental agencies, unions, and the business community which ended up ruining it for everybody. detroit will eventually make a comeback, but a detroit that is comparable even to cleveland is probably 20 years way and to toronto or minneapolis is perhaps 50 or even 100 years off. i also don't know if i agree with your views on elitism...i respect your attempt to defend detroit, but it is one of the most elitist cities in the country. despite all of the poverty, the urban blight, and so on, it continues to have a worldwide influence (for better or worse) on technology and manufacturing, and a lot of people in detroit posses incredible amounts of money. if detroit is one of the most poor cities, it is also easily one of the wealthiest. it is also one of the most segregated, in more ways than one. there are people bashing detroit, and this does upset me, but have you ever lived or worked there? it can be incredibly depressing and frustrating, not just in detroit but all over eastern michigan. just finding a job can take weeks if you're not lucky. that said i can understand some of the sentiment of people on this thread who would like to see detroit become a great city but only feel as though they are a passenger on a sinking ship.
the only way to really get a job in detroit is to know someone working there......
i tried everything from kahn/hamilton anderson/smith group/rossettii/etc........
can't say i didn't try.... but then again i'm sure if i had money, this city might not be bad..... maybe a career change out of the design field in general.........
i thought the relationship between berlin and detroit were that they are both post-war, post-industrialized cities acquiring similar contexts because of it. and, yeah. . . the techno. industry. shrinking cities, is my thought of relativity between the two.
Richie Hawtin built his own mythology in the ’90s by creating and nurturing a Detroit/Windsor-based international scene. Plus 8 churned out a twisted parade of dance 12s featuring Plastikman, F.U.S.E., Cybersonik (a three-headed monster with Hawtin, Acquaviva and Daniel Bell, who preceded Hawtin to Berlin several years ago), Kenny Larkin, Kooky Scientist, Speedy J and others. Those records, from 1990 to 1997, are contained on three volumes known as the Plus 8 Classics series. They have proved influential to many younger producers and DJs, who continue to mine the vertiginous, mind-expanding acid style favored by Hawtin and his cohorts. Even the song titles reveal cultural influence: Elements of Time, Technarchy, Motion, Vortex, Evolution, Substance Abuse and Rise can be read as a poetical blueprint for an underground society formed in the imagination but made actual in sufferscapes like Detroit and Berlin.
Hawtin then uses three words that apply to the two cities that have allowed him room to grow as an artist: Will to survive.
Both Detroit and Berlin have people with an incredibly strong will to survive,†he says. “Out of decay and pain comes this strength; you see it in both cities. You put (the music) out there, and it’s like there’s nothing they can’t understand.â€
~ the above words are all borrowed from my dear friend walter wasacz
of course...i'm purely speculating as to the validity of this comparison since i haven't really been to either detroit or berlin...i only day dream about them...ooh la la
minor fyi...although the shrinking cities exhibit debuted in berlin, it did not feature berlin. rather, halle/leipzig served as germany's representative. here's a short write up of the exhibit, again by my friend walter
detroit ....yeah right
i would be out of here if i wasn't going to grad school.... i swear...detroit sucks...... no work..... nothing creative here.... same ol' bull........ economy sucks...... firms tend to be picky on hiring and pass up the creative ones......... makes me wonder..... i don't blame all my shorties for leavin'...i should have left tooo...... maybe i should now....or what....wtf........ grad school or cali.....this or that..... winters or oceans...... nnnnn-zzzoottttttttttt
crizzle
go urbexing
detroit sucks. i pissed away three years of my life in that miserable city.
i don't mind detroit. but i do hear you on not much creativeness in the job field. it's all about cheap as possible.
cheap cheap cheap........ look at most of the shyt going up too downtown...some is decent but the new stuff makes me wonder.....
we need more raves!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
and happy glow sticks and caprices and monties on 24" rizzims
i documented downtown since i was going to build a model to possibly sell to a large firm/university and took me about 4 months to cad it up and take pics.....but anyways, there is ALOT of vacant space down there...... just google earth it and you'll see......
b
yo - i never left. don't be a hater - , i'll come back and shoot you, plus i'll use my numchucks. go to gradschool. you and garza. don't go to sci-arc either, i'll stab you if you do. flock east.
got my money......
pimpin' aint easy these days
actually if you can find a good job, detroit is great. its cheap, and it has pretty much everything, if your willing to drive. i'd compare my lifestyle in the detroit area to that of phoenix. that said, you are probably better off going somewhere where there are jobs. it took me a lot of interviews just to find one in a2. but detroit isn't that bad if you have a good job and some dough.
i wouldnt mind a job in a2 if i could find one...used to drive out there for 3 years doing carpentry on some renovations...nice job......
i havent heard of many firms in a2 so if you can drop me a few, that would be cool.....
i really don't mind detroit but the job scene is rough now.....
b
well, this is who i worked for in d
www.pbworld.com
it was actually a surprisingly good job, and the architecture was surprisingly good. i was working on a new central bus/people mover station on michigan and cass...it was delayed 18 months though, so sometime in the next 4-6 months when they start construction they might be hiring.
i've also worked for these guys
www.peg-ola.com
it was great, design build stuff but they are professors so their office is really just a side thing and they don't pay a lot.
i interviewed here, in northville
http://v-gstudio.com/
that is my favorite firm in the area
be careful around a2, it is always saturated with recent graduates and it can be pretty cutthroat. the best work getting done is just by umich profs who tend to hire on a project to project basis, you know what i mean.
there are a LOT of firms in ann arbor though
maybe i'm looking on the wrong lists or something.
b
yeah, if you don't get lucky and find connections somehow it's really hard to find a good job here in detroit. this place is a hole and i can't wait to get out. speaking as someone who was born and raised in the area, i find the lack of energy and spirit to be very draining and disenchanting.
only a couple months and i'm gone :)
you would think with the open space, there would be projects..... but this city works backwards....... large historical building get torn down when shyt building go up...... road work and boulavards (sp)...for what.... street scape?..... and i heard the new ymca is falling apart already...... the one kennedy building sucks........campus martius makes me pissed when i get caught in the damn circle jerk...... not a bad idea but traffic still gets all bunched up there.......
and the loft spaces going for 300-400,000 for the cheapest...wtf.... it's detroit....... i can buy a building and open up shop for that price....
b
yeah, the loft boom is disgusting. i had this discussion with a friend of mine not too long ago. in any other city these things would be called apartments, and all these developers are going to saturate the market and not sell a single unit.
you would think a couple creative minds would be able to get together and do some really good stuff with all the empty/deteriorating lots, but i think it is impossible to get anything started. red tape/money/lack of interest kills anything worth doing, and all detroit ends up with is one kennedy square, compuware, and more empty lots. it is still a great place to explore, and you never know when you are going to find something beautiful among the trash. i am also leaving at the end of the summer, but i still hope detroit can turn the corner. i have only been here four years, but i have a special connection with the city that is hard to ignore. part of me is going to miss it, but i am sure it will be exactly the same as i left it if i ever decide to come back.
^ 'but i have a special connection with the city that is hard to ignore. part of me is going to miss it, but i am sure it will be exactly the same as i left it if i ever decide to come back'
erasmus, i felt the same way. that all changed when i got out of there. i think i had a similar mentality to how prisoners justify and even get attached to their life behind bars. oh the freedom after i escaped!
btw, lafayette park is amazing though. no other city i know of can you live in a mies building with a glass wall overlooking the downtowns of two cities in different countries (and a river to boot) for less than $400 a month.
the link is probably why i'm still here....like a force..... the more i try to leave, the more bad shyt happens to me..... one day ....... i could just open up a mini shop here and trick myself to move to cali for a minute then stay....... but i have a few reasons for staying now....
i had a few friends up in the towers and the only thing i hated was the smell of the place.........
and i thought the super was suppose to entice people to move to detroit....... and the other thing is that there really isn't any food/markets downtown to get something after 8pm..... eastern market on the weekends but you would think that a medium sized store downtown would make sense...
b
Detroit fascinates me. No other city in America has seen a population exodus like that town has. What do you expect from a city that lost 1 million residents in the past 50 years. It's a modern day ghost town...almost. 237 - don't feel bad about wanting to leave. Plenty have done it ahead of you.
detroit....biggest dump in america
i would have to argue and say that new jersey is worse
new jersey is one of the most beautiful states i've been to
le bossman....I would vote for NORTH DAKOTA....WHERE THE STATE TREE IS A TELEPHONE POLE. It is far better than New Jersey. It infact has even one over on Bruce it has Lawrence Welk.
Detroit is a pit, a total trainwreck of a city, every bad urban design decision overshadowed ten years later by another even worse urban design decision.
But if I had to choose where to live, I'd pick the Detroit metro area over any part of New Jersey in a heartbeat.
Sorry to be mean.
besides the architecture, i got a product line out...belt buckles with changable face plates..... got the patent in process but that takes a while
www.cypherwhere.com and there's a detroit section in there.....
since i can't find work in detroit, i have to make some sort of side cash......
if anyone hears of any openings, let me know........
b
237, taking this post away from Detroit, let me ask you something about your website and portfolio, that i just saw thru your profile- i dont want to be sounding mean or condescending etc, just some frank questions-
It is really a surprise to me that you showcase only your modelmaking, furniture, product work on your site. Honestly, what is it on your website that a prospective employer will hire you for? Unless you are looking for work in a model shop or a furniture workshop....
Dont you think your portfolio should show some actual architectural design work that shows your design abilities, as well skills that would be desirable for an employer to hire you? You might have covered these bases in your print portfolio etc, but just my 2 cents.
all i really have is built work....
i have some basic drawings i did when in the firms but that was in 1999-2001........ i left the firms and got into construction/model building/etc..... i figured the best way to learn about architecture was to actually do it...understand the built process and materials..... sure, we all can design it but do you actaully know the process of having something made or built and the see the reasons why budgets/architects/engineers/contracts are always fighting.......
i wanted to start a design/build shop/firm in detroit...... i started a mini shop and designed/built all the work on mite.... i became a registered builder in michigan and was insured for 2 mill..... i was trying to create something that wasn't really happening here..... due to slow work, i landed a carpentry job in ann arbor and worked out there for 2 years or so..... the client had a few houses and an unlimited budget.... i did rough/finish carpentry and a bit of this and that here and there........
after a knee surgury 1.5 years ago, i really couldnt go back into the construction side as much... so i'm searching for a creative office that can utilize my thought process that i have between construction/design ....... nothing in detroit
besides all that...it gets to me that a firm tends to pick at the bad side of things...such as...you don't know 3d studio/max...etc...... but yet i think i can hold my own in design/detailing....... i might not have all the presentation qualities to make a design look hot....... it's really frustrating when everyone around me says that they like my work and that i have some sort of talent but yet the field that i went to school for and tried to make it in doesn't really support at all...
i do the model building since i used to work for a local model shop.... i seen the cash and decided that i could do it to pay off my student loans... it's not like i was out to get him or anything, i just seen the cash that's all..... i'm more interested in design build/furniture design..... reason being is that with a model, it's really only used for presentation and display then tucked away in the closet or tossed out..... all that work for a short time period..... i want my furniture ideas to stay around and entice an interior........ furniture tends to be taken care of and passed on through generations/etc.... has more value really..... plus a better conversation piece...... look at all the furniture that was designed in the past by architects....but it seems to have gone to the i.d. people now
i'm sure we all have our own story but i'm at the point where i would just rather operate a forklift and get my weekly check and not struggle with design and creating ideas...... tooo stressful and at this point, money is a factor now.......
b
and i'm taking any offers for a plane ticket out of here ... will return payment plus a few extra bucks once i find a job....seriously....
b
told her that i came from detroit city
and i played guitar in a long haired rock n roll band
she asked me why th e singers name was alice
i said listen baby you really wouldnt understand...
alice cooper?
gotta leave the city to make something happen?..... seems like that tends to be the thing here.... get more support out of the city than in the city....wtf
b
well you can submit a resume to my firm if you want, we're kind of always hiring and never hiring. its good design-build work though, but you have to move to montana. our website isn't finished, but:
www.intrinsikarchitecture.com
back to detroit.... we all know its such a crap hole and the finest example of automobility destroing a city (ironically the creation destroying its creator), but as architects and urban designers it should be our role to restore detroits urbarn fabric. What really pisses me off is when i ask people where they're going after school and they look at me like i'm crazy, then respond "new york, like who wouldn't go to new york!!!." Well F them up the a-- because new york is a great city... but already over-gentrified. Artists and designers (as well as gays) have traditionally been the catalysts for urban growth and gentrification, making areas safer/trendy for yuppies who then come and outprice the artist designers who move on to another dilapitated area, then the cycle repeats itself while minorities just seem to be displaced again and again in the process.
As architects we seem to transverse the artist yuppie bridge because we're are creative but also professional (im generalizing)and most importantly we have some power/say/understanding of the built environment. So when i tell my fellow artists to think of moving to a poorer city, or blighted area they think im crazy. Also since their parents are (mostly) wealthy (im generalizing the private art school body) they have the ability to be upwardly mobile and go to the city of their choice, which is usually new york because of its great oppurtunities, trendiness. This contrasts/ replaces "true" starving artists are the ones in the traditional role as the beginings of urban rennaisance or gentrification, depending on how postive/negativley you look at it.
I know im not making much sense and my thoughts are not really comming together but what im trying to say is that detroit can make a come back just as easily (difficult) as new york did from the rough 1970's, or various other cities did: providence, chicago, etc. I guess im just upset that people are bashing detroit, instead of looking at it as an oppurtunity to be architects with a social responsibility instead of just seeking recognition in a city like new york. And i do understand there are a varitey of forces in detroit that are prohibiting architects from working there yet from this thread the reall reasons architects turn their back on the city has to do with their on elitist attitudes.
Urban Pioneers Unite!!!!!
rizzdizzl, while i'm all for the restoration of detroit, the problem is a lot more complex than just the automobile factor, or one that architects and designers can solve spatially. true, after 40 years of "renaissance," urban renewal in detroit is finally starting to make some headway. but detroit has a long way to go. the problems that detroit has involve racism, class, industry, government policy, culture, planning, perception, it goes on and on. solutions to these problems are way beyond what most architects are capable of. i think architects have a hand in the solution to detroit's problem, but it is a relatively small contribution. there are plenty of idealistic designers who've attempted to set up shop in detroit with the best of intentions who've gone bust. and plenty of students and faculty from the detroit area's four architecture schools (some of the best in the country) have tried to propose schemes that seek to solve these issues or at least bring them to light, but inevitably most of them are hair brained schemes that could never possibly come to fruition in the real Detroit. i love detroit, i know i'll keep going back in some way or another, but it is a real, solid mess, along with all of eastern michigan for that matter. it basically results from 50 years of bad decisions and lack of foresight on the behalf of the citizens, governmental agencies, unions, and the business community which ended up ruining it for everybody. detroit will eventually make a comeback, but a detroit that is comparable even to cleveland is probably 20 years way and to toronto or minneapolis is perhaps 50 or even 100 years off. i also don't know if i agree with your views on elitism...i respect your attempt to defend detroit, but it is one of the most elitist cities in the country. despite all of the poverty, the urban blight, and so on, it continues to have a worldwide influence (for better or worse) on technology and manufacturing, and a lot of people in detroit posses incredible amounts of money. if detroit is one of the most poor cities, it is also easily one of the wealthiest. it is also one of the most segregated, in more ways than one. there are people bashing detroit, and this does upset me, but have you ever lived or worked there? it can be incredibly depressing and frustrating, not just in detroit but all over eastern michigan. just finding a job can take weeks if you're not lucky. that said i can understand some of the sentiment of people on this thread who would like to see detroit become a great city but only feel as though they are a passenger on a sinking ship.
had enough of detroit's "sufferscape?"
then move to berlin, natürlich!
personally,. i do not enjoy lower michigan at all. but there is definitely some great architecture going on,
my friend works here..
www.biddison-ad.com
job captain: ever get your things back from tcaup? are you looking for workers?... i love bozeman.
the only way to really get a job in detroit is to know someone working there......
i tried everything from kahn/hamilton anderson/smith group/rossettii/etc........
can't say i didn't try.... but then again i'm sure if i had money, this city might not be bad..... maybe a career change out of the design field in general.........
b
yeah, what is up with the detroit-berlin connection?
khmay, what do you mean get my things back from tcaup?
techno......
berlin is like the european detroit
i dunno, berlin sure seemed cleaner and less abandoned than detroit
and it has a public-transit system...actually, when i was there, it had two, the east and west systems hadn't quite been re-linked
not direct similarities but they have the same outlooks on music
b
captain. i seem to remember a very large crate of metal on the first floor of the building for quite some time marked Intrinsik
i thought the relationship between berlin and detroit were that they are both post-war, post-industrialized cities acquiring similar contexts because of it. and, yeah. . . the techno. industry. shrinking cities, is my thought of relativity between the two.
...it's not just the techno music, but also the ambience, attitude & feeling of the respective places. witness below...
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“People (in Berlin) were determined to make something out of nothing. There were thousands of nomads, kids who didn’t fit in, who found themselves in this crazy after-hours lifestyle,†Hawtin says, sipping his second coffee at a sidewalk café in Mitte, not far from where he shares an apartment with Magda. The space also doubles as the Berlin office for Minus/Plus 8, which is still run out of a building in Windsor’s Walkerville neighborhood. “We were doing the same thing in Detroit, putting on parties at the Packard Plant and the Bankel Building, getting people together who were living on the fringe.â€
Richie Hawtin built his own mythology in the ’90s by creating and nurturing a Detroit/Windsor-based international scene. Plus 8 churned out a twisted parade of dance 12s featuring Plastikman, F.U.S.E., Cybersonik (a three-headed monster with Hawtin, Acquaviva and Daniel Bell, who preceded Hawtin to Berlin several years ago), Kenny Larkin, Kooky Scientist, Speedy J and others. Those records, from 1990 to 1997, are contained on three volumes known as the Plus 8 Classics series. They have proved influential to many younger producers and DJs, who continue to mine the vertiginous, mind-expanding acid style favored by Hawtin and his cohorts. Even the song titles reveal cultural influence: Elements of Time, Technarchy, Motion, Vortex, Evolution, Substance Abuse and Rise can be read as a poetical blueprint for an underground society formed in the imagination but made actual in sufferscapes like Detroit and Berlin.
Hawtin then uses three words that apply to the two cities that have allowed him room to grow as an artist: Will to survive.
Both Detroit and Berlin have people with an incredibly strong will to survive,†he says. “Out of decay and pain comes this strength; you see it in both cities. You put (the music) out there, and it’s like there’s nothing they can’t understand.â€
~ the above words are all borrowed from my dear friend walter wasacz
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of course...i'm purely speculating as to the validity of this comparison since i haven't really been to either detroit or berlin...i only day dream about them...ooh la la
survival i guess....... making something out of nothing...... the drive just makes you stronger
b
minor fyi...although the shrinking cities exhibit debuted in berlin, it did not feature berlin. rather, halle/leipzig served as germany's representative. here's a short write up of the exhibit, again by my friend walter
hey,
i noticed a few superstarr names in there.....
sort of funny cause it's like that whol idea of suburbanites/out of towners that come to detroit and think they understand it......
cruise the streets at night... hang at the clubs..... go to bell isle.... see the pimp and hoes.....etc......
superstarr..........
makes me wonder sometimes how people take statistics/pictures/and tour detroit think that they knows whats going on...
"send him to detroit..."
is that from the kentucky fried movie?
it is... I guess I just dated myself.
need a link for that......
ah yes...we have gotten most of our crap back.
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