hahahahahahahah good luck! the only way to know in the city of LA is togo through the plan check process, and they can be bastards. Seriously, they will not give hand-outs anymore because there might be "mistakes" in them. If you go to the bldg. dept. and ask what you'll need to submit, I guarantee they will give you wrong information or leave things out. You might have more luck by going to the bldg. dept. in Santa Monica though - smaller cities tend to be more forthcoming when it comes to this kind of info. I just started a project in West Hollywood and they seem very helpful, but the case load is obviously much smaller.

nonsense. have you visited ladbs web site? it should answer most of your questions and if not, go to the building dept. yourself and ask to a planchecker. contrarary to gossip, it is fairly simple to obtain a building permit in la, if you understand what the building dept. requires. same for santa monica with much more requirements. i am talking about small projects, ofcourse. i suggest go to building dept. as soon as you know the scope of work, verify zoning and property info. and find out the conditions unique to your project.
los angeles is becoming more and more site specific about its neighborhoods, often adding and subtracting requirements.
maybe we can be more helpful if you can give more info. about your work.

http://www.ci.la.ca.us/LADBS/index.htm

OA, have you worked on a project in a Hillside Ordinance zone recently(with substandard streets, etc)? They are seriously insane at the bldg. dept., that's been my experience. It is not easy AT ALL to get a permit... now, it depends on the project and complexity. Could be we have just had a string of unfortunate circumstances, and we were working with unusual lot shapes, multiple lots tied together, etc., but I would never ever say it is easy with them. To the contrary - most of the issues have been with structural or zoning. Generally they could give a rats ass about the design requirements. Also depends on which plan checker you get, the mood they are in, whether they get along with your structural. It may be that we've had bad luck with structural engineers as well 9not a lot of exp. in the hillside in LA) But I used to think I preferred working in LA because they have less restrictions in terms of FAR, Design Review, etc. Now I've completely changed my mind. I would rather work somewhere with more restrictions where the people working at the City actually know what they are talking about.One more thing - the less info you put on the dwgs the better, learned from experience. You almost want to just submit the structural set - add the architectural details to the bid set later.

ps. "verifying" the zoning info can be nearly impossible until you submit for plan check (if you have an abnormal situation, ex. substandard lot size, substandard street, non-conforming existing bldg, all of which are common occurances for old houses in LA). Speaking from experience...

Thanks - all very interesting.

So bottom line is that there is NO boilerplate checklist as a starting point for determining the contents of a plan check submittal? Obviously every submittal will vary depending on the scope, type, location, of individual projects - but it's amazing to me that there's not a 'typical plancheck submission guidelines' document that has been developed. LADBS at least has them, in pretty specific form too, for our consultants - see http://www.ci.la.ca.us/LADBS/faq/forms_correction_lists.htm - but not for Architectural submissions?! I'll continue to look, but am not optimistic - heck, who would dream of making plan check a straightforward, regulated, standardized process?

Tell you what - we'll develop a checklist, and then post it on Archinect for critical peer review. Now there's civil service for you.

R.A.,
i am just about to pull a permit for new two story 2500 sq/ft SFD in silverlake. it will be my second one after 15 years in that area.
i understand your frustrations about lot ties, lot cuts prior to 1940's, hillside substandart streets, grading issues, etc,etc.
seems like you had an either substandart or really restrictive site conditions, which i also had some of that, and i really understand your frustrations going thru and satisfying building dept. to get your project permitted.
however, i still maintain that, it is not that hard to get a building permit
once you deal with your site specific requirements.
i am also designing a house on the adjacent lot which a portion of it was sold to the neigbor in 1948, and i am in process of getting a "certificate of complience" for it.(a long process..)
i've also seen a lot of cases where people exploited the building dept and zoning requirements and i understand the conservative nature of these agencies because of it.
all the experiences you've written above is similar to mine but i also accept that this is not a rural town and every building strongly affects the adjacent physical conditions, specially on a hillside.
my drawings for the building permit are 7 sheets per house and the plan checker really liked it that simple (knew the engineer as well.)
good luck with your work. my project is on descanso dr. and the client wants to start "soon".

Thanks for the description OA - it's good to know that is is indeed possible to go through it relatively painlessly, we just have not had that experience yet ourselves. I think the engineer knowing the plan checker makes a huge difference, but it is very difficult to find an experienced engineer who will take on smaller projects. I also feel that it is easier to get the permits for ground up construction rather than remodel/additions. In any case, I think knowing how to navigate the dept. comes with experience, but the luck of the draw plays in as well. We did get the permits for our recent headaches, but we've ended up with some monstrous foundations... I definitely will have to learn to get the permit set size down, 7 pages, does that include structural?

R.A,i wish seven pages included the structurals as well as in 'certified residential designers' drawings, an almost extinct generation, they have a beautiful way of combining architectural plans and framing design. but, hillside structurals tend to be fatter and well checked as you mentioned with your retaining walls. there are many structural engineers who are experienced in hillside construction. ask around. i sometimes use standart type V sheet from the city, for small remodels on a level lot. working with a familiar contractor saves a lot of time when it comes to detail information. remodels are harder to check sometimes, everything has to be verified.
in los angeles, empty buildable lots are dwindling, so there are alots of remodeling. sort of like,apartments and loft conversions in manhattan.
and jckii, i bet your checklist will be more useful than theirs.

As far as Santa Monica being easier...


there should be a big sign up on their door that reads "abandon hope all ye who enter here"

seriously, its the most bad-ass civil nightmare you will ever wish you could wake up from. Makes LA City seem like a nice big cuddle.

Santa Monica does suck, though not as bad as LA County. LA City at least has an extensive database with forms, codes, and facs. I've had no problems pulling permits at West LA. If you go there enough they will know you and if you aren't an asshole they might even help you get your permit. The real folks you need to worry about are the folks in LA Grading- If you have a Hillside project make sure you lube up before submitting your soils reports.

My partner and I tend to issue our permits set with the following sheets (about 8-10 total).

-cover sheet
-misc. forms (GPI, Title 24, BMP sheet, etc...)
-Site plan/demo plans/grading plans
-floor plans
-elevations
-sections
-roof plans
-door/window schedule/required stair/rail details and waterheater strapping.

+ Structurals.

We keep the detail info to min. and use the old corrections sheets to determine the necessary notes.

To our credit we have had plancheckers who have actually thanked us for making their job easier.

That said, you have to do a lot of work post-permit for the subs.

pomo that is some handy information . it sounds like second nature to you !!

I think working with the LADBS is pretty easy as long as you can maintain a sense of humor about the process. If you are just a little bit charming and persistent the people that work there are generally pretty helpful (as long as what you ask of them doesn't require a whole lot of additional work from them, they are lazy bureaucrats after all.)

As for a checklist they have a City of Los Angeles Single Family Dwelling/Duplex Plan Check List, and other such lists for other project types. These are the check lists that the plan checkers use when reviewing projects. They give you a copy of it when they issue corrections and it is rather extensive. Just use one from a previous project if they won't give you a new one and make sure you meet the requirements that apply. It is all spelled out in black and white. And if you cant meet the letter of the code, you can always negotiate.

Mmm Sam, would have loved you to sit on on the meeting where some of our clients were threatening to sue the city, the head of the bldg dept. and the plan checker over wrong information they gave us early on in the process, which we had "verified" several times with different people in the zoning dept.... You can imagine where that went.

We just got our permits for a project in the Mulholland Corridor. It took 2 years and 2 presentations to the Design Review Board. LA Grading lost our GPI and Soils Reports, but we kept at their throats everyday until they issued our permits.

Sam sung's got the right idea- a little charm goes a long, long way with the building dept. Only scream at them when you have proof they fucked up. The thing with LA is that the supervisors are all pretty cool, so if you have real problems ask to speak with one of them.