i've got a gensler interview coming up.
m.arch with lots of 3D experience at old firm.
finished idp.
lots of front-end of project experience, cause of economy.
not much focus on CD's.
1.5 yr of master planning.
3 yr total experience.
Sounds a little high. I don't think you'd get that in DC but I don't know how competitive LA is to DC. Check the salary polls and see what people in LA are making.
take them for all they are worth! if you say 55k the worst thing that can happen is they won't match it right? and give you something closer to 50k..... The lower you go, the lower they go.
However, I would also think that a large corp. arch firm has a rather firm pay scale so they might just make you an offer without even asking and not be really interested in negotiating. More of a prove yourself for 6 months and then we will start to give you more moola type scenario's.
55 is too much. Unlicensed with 3 yrs experience, I'd ask for 45 tops. Gensler is smart and they get lots of applicants. They'll show you the door if you ask for that.
i agree with /\
it's also not necessarily true that big corporate = more $$$.
although, you should definately do better on benefits.
you can also check you local AIA for a copy of the regional salary report. you can usually walk-in and take a peek at it.
Take a look at the salary poll on this site. It's a good indication of what people are making in diff parts of the country with diff experience levels.
Maybe I’m overly optimistic or maybe just frustrated with architect’s measly wages. Why shortchange yourself? Ask for 55. Hell, ask for 58. If your any good and the interview goes good, then they’ll make you an offer. It may not be what you asked for but it’ll be better than making assumptions beforehand and selling yourself short. Also you’re done with IPD (you didn’t need it in CA until ’05 anyways) and tell them that you’re going to start taking the licensing exam. That way they’ll look at you as a possible additional architect to have on staff. And being in LA, where housing costs are much higher than the rest of the nation you’ll need the extra money just to get by. My two cents.
45 is right on. you end up looking foolish if you ask for too much. I had about the exact experience as you (m.arch, 3 years exp. on front end, just licensed). It was 17 monthes ago in LA with a well to do corporate firm. I asked for 50 and the partners looked and each other in disbelief and then told me my experience didn't warrant that amount. I checked around, they were right. They did want me bad so I was able to sqeeze 45 out of them.
Detroit, it does't matter how good you think you are. Its a very specific market that doesn't bend around individuals.
with 3 years... i dont think so. they might offer 45, but probably not. expect something like 40K. someone with 3 years is going to be put on cd's because thats where the largest billings come from. at an office like that you aren't managing others and you certainly aren't leading the frontend design. be happy with 40 and ASK for projects in cd. gensler is huge and picks from a large applicant pool. they might be choosy but they will stick close to aia ranges, even with you're greatness on the table.
Figure out how you want to sell yourself. If you want to do 3D, say so and promote it, if not, then down play it, same goes for everything else. And DO NOT let them make you do a bunch of 3D if you aren't getting paid for it! Good 3D people are hard to find and are worth more than a similarly experienced architect (monetarily wise).
But remember, if you are doing something specialized, and are good, you are worth more. If you market yourself as a 'typical 3 yr experience' guy, then you get the number off their chart, period. It all comes down to deciding what you want to do, what you want to be good at, and presenting that.
Keep in mind Gensler's bizarre payment methods (actually, it's quite genius on their part), with bonuses. They'll say you get X amount, but they'll include your two bonuses. What they don't tell you is that bonuses are considered 'gifts' and you get taxed out the *ss for them! That, and it looks good for them that they are 'giving' so much. It's quite misleading. Many years down the road, though, they will matter and things will be more in your favor.
A specific market that doesn’t bend around individuals? Hmm…looking at the salary poll it seems that there is no rhyme or reason whatsoever. There were three people in the first couple of pages that had 3 years or less of experience that were getting at least 40K in LA. If you add a couple years experience and if you’re done with IDP (and went through it pretty honestly) you should be pretty flexible in what you can do as well. And should be getting high 40’s. Ever wonder why there are so many ‘starving artists’ in this profession? It’s because architects have horrible business sense. Gensler is one of the largest firms out there and large corporate firms do pay more. If your happy getting paid a mediocre salary then walk in there with your lowest bid, you’ll get the job.
how did you finish your idp doing 1.5 years of master planning...
and only 3 years total experience...that 1.5 years of non-
master planning must have been very diverse...just wondering..
if you've got all that experience across the board though..
why not ask for the sky...you have more experience in various
areas than most people would at three years...
most often i like to hear their offer first...
and gensler isn't your normal corporate firm are they?..I mean
don't they have like ten offices?..they should be able to afford 55..
the only problem you may encounter is that they have a set
salary structure based on years of experience...unless you get
hired for 3d in which case you may just get pigeon-holed...
If a firm doesn’t offer you any extra salary upon getting licensed then you need to leave. Your license gives you creditability in front of the client, marketability and generally says that you have a general knowledge base and can be given any number of tasks or responsibilities. I know that this is not true in all cases. I’ve met many with the initials AIA or RA behind their name that haven’t been worth the paper their written on, but as a general rule most firms (that are not sweatshops) will give additional money and perks for licensure.
for everyone posting 40 - 45 k for three years, that is a disgrace!!
50 should totally be bottom line, no lower. i got 40 right out of school, in a bad market!! I better be at 50 by the time I am 3 years out, more if I am doing really well and we are all really busy around here. architects need to stand up for themselves. If you are working for a big firm and your employer works you hard and then reaps your benefits with weekends on their yacht and don't take care of you then you are in the wrong firm. an architect should always get the satisfaction of doing good work and learning and pushing themsleves with new and more responsibility as well as live a good life. is this too much to ask? maybe I still haven't come to the realization that I was meant to get screwed from the moment I walked into school.
I agree with the go high mentality. However, you must be able to back it up with some pretty good skills. If you don't you'll be out of there pretty quickly.
I worked there for 2 years (back in 2000-2002) and I got 48K with no IDP. They used to give good bonuses but after the market crashed things got tight.
There are some great people at the big red G - there are also some utter arses who wouldn't survive without the corporate structure.
Be warned Gensler tend to pay women far less than men. - can you say discrimination. I actually had a friend who left because one of the partners told her to her face that she was too ugly to present infront of the client and needed to have a makeover. - sadly on being told the story i wasn't surprised.
i can't believe that averyone is saying 45K being ok. you should definitely ask for at least 50k. if you're IDP is finished and you have 3D skills, you are on your way to getting licensed and can be very useful for getting projects. don't shortchange yourself.
Good to see some like-minded responses. I don’t think that many realize that if John Doe gets ‘x’ amount of dollars then that sets a precedent. Obviously talent, experience and drive have a lot to do with individuals earning, but expectations and precedents will help greatly. We should constantly push for more money, not for greed sake, but just for survival with today’s rate of inflation. If not, companies will continue to abuse and underpay individuals and won’t think twice about it.
Be aware that once you're keyed into a salary going in at Gensler, there's not much room for major improvement. Big raises just don't make sense when they can bill you out at more and keep you basically in the same place. If you're talented you might take less than you want and make a big stink about it later, but it might fall on deaf ears. It's not necessarily greedy to ask for alot -- you're just trying to get as much as their willing to give at the time. Assuming that you should ask some 'appropriate' amount is illustrative of the typical self-loathing architect. We've got to get over the starving artist diatribe and feed our families.
You should ask for 60. That would be smarter than asking for what you actually think they might give you. Well, that is unless you're really scared to be embarrassed by the Gensler people for asking for a half a lawyer's wage.
Ask what you think you should get. Most likely, they will just hand you a piece of paper with a number, regardless of what you ask. That's what they did for me and I am sure I am not alone.
You should go it at 60. Assume they will talk you down at any price. If they like you, and you assume they are decent people, why would they not take part in negotiations, or at least a conversation? Ask for 60, you probably won't get it, but you should be getting at least 50 with your experience.
My rule:
The side that first puts down a figure loses.
Get them to commit, don't be afraid of brief pauses in the conversation.
I worked for an architect a while back that suggested that his ability to allow long silences without showing discomfort was his best negotiating tool.
Before you pop the question about salary,
exhaust all of the other questions you have about the position that you are interviewing for. If you ask about $ last, they might give you a little more latitude.
Try to feel them out...if the interview is going well and you think
they like you, go for the mid 50. Extend the interview as much
as possible. Walk around the office ask people questions that are already there...even better if you can go out to lunch with some of them.
nowadays films don't break even on boxoffice, but eventually profit from video/dvd sales. i'm sure Brad's agent insists on a % of the video/dvd sales, and you should be sure to demand that too!
I worked for Gensler back in the dot-com era and I would make a suggestion from my point of view. I wanted to work for Gensler and I loved working there. The people, projects, the whole environment was great. The learning and teaching culture is excellent.
The problem for me was accepting a fairly low salary with the bonuses figured in and hoping to prove my worth, thus a raise. What I did not have any control over was the dot-com bust and the economy. We also had our birth of our first son and started a family. I had to leave for the sake of supporting my family since a raise was not going to happen. The bonuses were awesome but I couldn't afford to mortgage our finances because we weren't making ends meet while waiting for a bonus.
Oct 30, 05 11:51 am ·
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gensler interview
i've got a gensler interview coming up.
m.arch with lots of 3D experience at old firm.
finished idp.
lots of front-end of project experience, cause of economy.
not much focus on CD's.
1.5 yr of master planning.
3 yr total experience.
what should i ask for? 55k too much?
Which location?
los angeles location.
Sounds a little high. I don't think you'd get that in DC but I don't know how competitive LA is to DC. Check the salary polls and see what people in LA are making.
take them for all they are worth! if you say 55k the worst thing that can happen is they won't match it right? and give you something closer to 50k..... The lower you go, the lower they go.
However, I would also think that a large corp. arch firm has a rather firm pay scale so they might just make you an offer without even asking and not be really interested in negotiating. More of a prove yourself for 6 months and then we will start to give you more moola type scenario's.
55 is too much. Unlicensed with 3 yrs experience, I'd ask for 45 tops. Gensler is smart and they get lots of applicants. They'll show you the door if you ask for that.
i agree with /\
it's also not necessarily true that big corporate = more $$$.
although, you should definately do better on benefits.
you can also check you local AIA for a copy of the regional salary report. you can usually walk-in and take a peek at it.
Take a look at the salary poll on this site. It's a good indication of what people are making in diff parts of the country with diff experience levels.
Maybe I’m overly optimistic or maybe just frustrated with architect’s measly wages. Why shortchange yourself? Ask for 55. Hell, ask for 58. If your any good and the interview goes good, then they’ll make you an offer. It may not be what you asked for but it’ll be better than making assumptions beforehand and selling yourself short. Also you’re done with IPD (you didn’t need it in CA until ’05 anyways) and tell them that you’re going to start taking the licensing exam. That way they’ll look at you as a possible additional architect to have on staff. And being in LA, where housing costs are much higher than the rest of the nation you’ll need the extra money just to get by. My two cents.
45 is right on. you end up looking foolish if you ask for too much. I had about the exact experience as you (m.arch, 3 years exp. on front end, just licensed). It was 17 monthes ago in LA with a well to do corporate firm. I asked for 50 and the partners looked and each other in disbelief and then told me my experience didn't warrant that amount. I checked around, they were right. They did want me bad so I was able to sqeeze 45 out of them.
Detroit, it does't matter how good you think you are. Its a very specific market that doesn't bend around individuals.
with 3 years... i dont think so. they might offer 45, but probably not. expect something like 40K. someone with 3 years is going to be put on cd's because thats where the largest billings come from. at an office like that you aren't managing others and you certainly aren't leading the frontend design. be happy with 40 and ASK for projects in cd. gensler is huge and picks from a large applicant pool. they might be choosy but they will stick close to aia ranges, even with you're greatness on the table.
Figure out how you want to sell yourself. If you want to do 3D, say so and promote it, if not, then down play it, same goes for everything else. And DO NOT let them make you do a bunch of 3D if you aren't getting paid for it! Good 3D people are hard to find and are worth more than a similarly experienced architect (monetarily wise).
But remember, if you are doing something specialized, and are good, you are worth more. If you market yourself as a 'typical 3 yr experience' guy, then you get the number off their chart, period. It all comes down to deciding what you want to do, what you want to be good at, and presenting that.
Keep in mind Gensler's bizarre payment methods (actually, it's quite genius on their part), with bonuses. They'll say you get X amount, but they'll include your two bonuses. What they don't tell you is that bonuses are considered 'gifts' and you get taxed out the *ss for them! That, and it looks good for them that they are 'giving' so much. It's quite misleading. Many years down the road, though, they will matter and things will be more in your favor.
A specific market that doesn’t bend around individuals? Hmm…looking at the salary poll it seems that there is no rhyme or reason whatsoever. There were three people in the first couple of pages that had 3 years or less of experience that were getting at least 40K in LA. If you add a couple years experience and if you’re done with IDP (and went through it pretty honestly) you should be pretty flexible in what you can do as well. And should be getting high 40’s. Ever wonder why there are so many ‘starving artists’ in this profession? It’s because architects have horrible business sense. Gensler is one of the largest firms out there and large corporate firms do pay more. If your happy getting paid a mediocre salary then walk in there with your lowest bid, you’ll get the job.
being licensed doesn't usually = increased salary at larger firms.
how did you finish your idp doing 1.5 years of master planning...
and only 3 years total experience...that 1.5 years of non-
master planning must have been very diverse...just wondering..
if you've got all that experience across the board though..
why not ask for the sky...you have more experience in various
areas than most people would at three years...
most often i like to hear their offer first...
and gensler isn't your normal corporate firm are they?..I mean
don't they have like ten offices?..they should be able to afford 55..
the only problem you may encounter is that they have a set
salary structure based on years of experience...unless you get
hired for 3d in which case you may just get pigeon-holed...
If a firm doesn’t offer you any extra salary upon getting licensed then you need to leave. Your license gives you creditability in front of the client, marketability and generally says that you have a general knowledge base and can be given any number of tasks or responsibilities. I know that this is not true in all cases. I’ve met many with the initials AIA or RA behind their name that haven’t been worth the paper their written on, but as a general rule most firms (that are not sweatshops) will give additional money and perks for licensure.
for everyone posting 40 - 45 k for three years, that is a disgrace!!
50 should totally be bottom line, no lower. i got 40 right out of school, in a bad market!! I better be at 50 by the time I am 3 years out, more if I am doing really well and we are all really busy around here. architects need to stand up for themselves. If you are working for a big firm and your employer works you hard and then reaps your benefits with weekends on their yacht and don't take care of you then you are in the wrong firm. an architect should always get the satisfaction of doing good work and learning and pushing themsleves with new and more responsibility as well as live a good life. is this too much to ask? maybe I still haven't come to the realization that I was meant to get screwed from the moment I walked into school.
I agree with the go high mentality. However, you must be able to back it up with some pretty good skills. If you don't you'll be out of there pretty quickly.
55K minimum with Gensler.
I worked there for 2 years (back in 2000-2002) and I got 48K with no IDP. They used to give good bonuses but after the market crashed things got tight.
There are some great people at the big red G - there are also some utter arses who wouldn't survive without the corporate structure.
Be warned Gensler tend to pay women far less than men. - can you say discrimination. I actually had a friend who left because one of the partners told her to her face that she was too ugly to present infront of the client and needed to have a makeover. - sadly on being told the story i wasn't surprised.
i can't believe that averyone is saying 45K being ok. you should definitely ask for at least 50k. if you're IDP is finished and you have 3D skills, you are on your way to getting licensed and can be very useful for getting projects. don't shortchange yourself.
Good to see some like-minded responses. I don’t think that many realize that if John Doe gets ‘x’ amount of dollars then that sets a precedent. Obviously talent, experience and drive have a lot to do with individuals earning, but expectations and precedents will help greatly. We should constantly push for more money, not for greed sake, but just for survival with today’s rate of inflation. If not, companies will continue to abuse and underpay individuals and won’t think twice about it.
Be aware that once you're keyed into a salary going in at Gensler, there's not much room for major improvement. Big raises just don't make sense when they can bill you out at more and keep you basically in the same place. If you're talented you might take less than you want and make a big stink about it later, but it might fall on deaf ears. It's not necessarily greedy to ask for alot -- you're just trying to get as much as their willing to give at the time. Assuming that you should ask some 'appropriate' amount is illustrative of the typical self-loathing architect. We've got to get over the starving artist diatribe and feed our families.
thanks all of you for your comments. i'll actually ask fo 60k.
that will get you funny looks and you will be embarrased when they come back at you (if even at all) for a questionable 45k.
satan, it was a joke.
You should ask for 60. That would be smarter than asking for what you actually think they might give you. Well, that is unless you're really scared to be embarrassed by the Gensler people for asking for a half a lawyer's wage.
Ask what you think you should get. Most likely, they will just hand you a piece of paper with a number, regardless of what you ask. That's what they did for me and I am sure I am not alone.
You could go in and ask for 60K. Then come back and tell us what happened.
You should go it at 60. Assume they will talk you down at any price. If they like you, and you assume they are decent people, why would they not take part in negotiations, or at least a conversation? Ask for 60, you probably won't get it, but you should be getting at least 50 with your experience.
mbr, did that happen to you at gensler?
why stop at 60k, ask the interviewer what he/she makes and say at least ten percent higher than you.
My rule:
The side that first puts down a figure loses.
Get them to commit, don't be afraid of brief pauses in the conversation.
I worked for an architect a while back that suggested that his ability to allow long silences without showing discomfort was his best negotiating tool.
Good luck
i agree, it is an art, and it means a lot in poker too
for your experience in a big firm in a big city 50-55 is not unreasonable.....architects are great at lowballing themselves
YOU ARE A PROFESSIONAL!!
If money is what you want, go to Jerde and they will give you $70k without blinking.
Before you pop the question about salary,
exhaust all of the other questions you have about the position that you are interviewing for. If you ask about $ last, they might give you a little more latitude.
Try to feel them out...if the interview is going well and you think
they like you, go for the mid 50. Extend the interview as much
as possible. Walk around the office ask people questions that are already there...even better if you can go out to lunch with some of them.
Good luck.
nowadays films don't break even on boxoffice, but eventually profit from video/dvd sales. i'm sure Brad's agent insists on a % of the video/dvd sales, and you should be sure to demand that too!
(just a little flick-architect wisdom!)
wtf?
I worked for Gensler back in the dot-com era and I would make a suggestion from my point of view. I wanted to work for Gensler and I loved working there. The people, projects, the whole environment was great. The learning and teaching culture is excellent.
The problem for me was accepting a fairly low salary with the bonuses figured in and hoping to prove my worth, thus a raise. What I did not have any control over was the dot-com bust and the economy. We also had our birth of our first son and started a family. I had to leave for the sake of supporting my family since a raise was not going to happen. The bonuses were awesome but I couldn't afford to mortgage our finances because we weren't making ends meet while waiting for a bonus.
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