A detailed explanation of benefits; soon after I joined my firm they switched to a high-deductible ($1500) health care plan, and I have to pay for half my health insurance...no dental...no vision...and a rude awakening with the first $250 trip to the e-room.
at any rate, would be nice to see a portion of the poll that could detail benefits, because I'm curious if this is at all a trend in the AE world. and it's something most people don't consider when negotiating salary.
I would be in support of the schools attended...having first hand knowledge of specific state schools and specific Ivy league schools I am well aware of certain discourses that are present in one and totally absent in the other....and this goes both ways from the states to the ivys and vice versa so...depending on the type of job, who it was with, etc...the school the person attened would help explain the salary perhaps
That sounds like something a man would say... Keep gender as a required field. Wouldn't you like to know if there's a gender gap in architecture? I sure would.
As for including school: I think it's an awful idea. It would only amplify problems of competition and perception already extent in the field. There isn't a correlation between school and salary anyway, and if there is, there flat out shouldn't be and no one should encourage it. If you are talented, or a hard work, or lazy, or a bad designer, or what-have-you--that's what has a bearing on your employment, and your degree should not. Each school turns out plenty of each. And anyway different schools specialize in different parts of the field, of what use would it even be to attempt to compare them? I think this sort of thing just leads to further classism and divisiveness. That is a horrible, harmful idea.
I'm happy with the current system. It is interesting to be able to look through and see all the personal comments everyone has given. I think a few important items should be on there and be able to be sorted by. I also think it is important to leave an area for comments, and this is where people can add things such as where they went to school, their age, if they are m/f, or if they are just a lazy ass cad monkey who spends their days on archinect.
I agree with an earlier post (way up towards the top of this somewhere) that things like "school attended" and age should be voluntary slots on either member profiles or the salary poll. It would actually be interesting to give people the option to list what school they went to and see if they choose to.
As someone just finishing grad school I'd be interested to see salaries for more junior positions divided up by school. Myriam is right, there shouldn't be a correlation between school and salary... but I'd be interested to see if there is.
As a UK Archinecter I'd like to be able to filter results so that I only see other UK salaries. However, it'd also be interesting to be able to directly compare UK and US salaries (and other countries, of course). Would it be possible to link some form of currency converter into the system? That way we in the UK could type in our salaries and see a proper comparison with US 'necters, all in the same currency.
Could be complex, but could also show some interesting results...
For those like me that have the constant itch of moving it'd be nice to map opportunities like this except that the filters could be:
1. Location
2. Years of experiece
3. Type of work
So you'd be able to zero in on what a junior architect with 2 years of experience can expect in LA as compared to NYC for example. It'd be sweet if you can compare markets also. Like if you type in your variables it would map out what individuals with similar level are making across the city, country or world.
I would appreciate some input on this:
I am about to graduate with an M.Arch (3+). I have about eight years' experience doing corporate interiors (glorified space planning) and project management. To what extent, if at all, will this experience count toward determining my salary as an intern architect?
Survery needs some kind of tools to compare by age, area, etc.
Also, very imoprtantly, there is no date the salaries are posted so the numbers could be 6 years old. One can't reliably compare them to current salaries.
fantastic Paul (it's been some time for me to post)
Glad to see more useful information added to the site.
Location seems to be vital (even though some pointed out that it may not be) as I have heard in the news today that us in Los Angeles, earn about 15% less than those in the same position, elsewhere in the state of California. Quite unbeliveable....I wonder how our profession fairs in with this in mind!
I did skim the suggestions and most of them are pretty good. How to implement really becomes your challenge. I did not see a suggestion to separate those who were in ownership positions vs. those who are not. Setting your own salary and deciding how much of the profit to take off the table for your own use really puts you in a different position than those that need to negotiate their salary/benefit package based on skill, experience, location and fitting in with that particular team or environment.
Would you condsider opening the poll to Landscape Architects? As is frequently the case, we are a group that is often late in being asked to the table.
I think the data needs to be entered in a way that is more structured. As it stands it is mostly free form and everyone is filling in different information. Also it would be nice for you to be able to graph information automatically instead of having to basically do data entry with extracted information from each respondent. I would love to see the results of the survey thus far, but in order for the data to have more signifigance, there should be more data gathered from each area. Maybe information can be obtained from alumni organizations - some schools, (take Syracuse for example) take salary polls from its alumni on a regular basis. Also the AIA may be a source for information.
And to that I'd add, some option of showing every degree a person holds, not just their highest-level education (BS -- MArch -- PhD is a very different track than BFA -- PhD, or B.ARch -- MFA and so on)
Also, when tracking gender, please do include male/female/other. I'm curious to hear from anyone in the profession who falls outside of the binary gender system and would prefer to publicly take the stance of acknowledging the non-normative.
Susan, don't most "other" genders actually identify with a particular gender, whether biologically predisposed or not? I would imagine the question should be: "gender preference : m/f" although I guess you may as well leave "other" in there just in case.
can we have the school that the degree is from be included in the poll??? may help clear up once and for all the 'which architecture school is better????' question
just a thought
if this has already been posted above, sorry. I usually dont read the threads
uhhhhhhh...how does showing which school the degree was obtained show which school is better? Isn't that a very qualitatitve approach to a philosophical question? why not just read us news reports?
Virtually every job listing basically says, "It doesn't matter how much relevant experience you have, don't bother us if you aren't fluent in AutoCad"
I won't ran't about this situation, but it would help to know whether people can be gainfully employed - and how much they earn - if they don't fit the mold or use software from other vendors.
Cost of living is a huge factor, however, I have worked all across the country and it doesnt always come into play. I am most interested with who is getting rich if the worker bees are not. In other words, most firms may get 8 to 12 percent of the cost of construction of say of a million dollar home regardless of where in the country that house gets built, yet in the areas of lower cost of living the workers are getting less money. Who is pocketing that chunk of change? We are a boutique firm with rich clients and a resonable cost of living, low property taxes, yet build multi-million dollar projects. Most architects working for firms in the area are not making that much $$. Are the principles and owners the ones making out like bandits and hiding the fact? When I worked in Aspen, the cost of living was extrodinarily high, the clients extrodinarily rich, and the salary was excellent yet I still was poor, so I do believe regions are a factor, however, in my current situation I do not believe that to be true - we are basically an Aspen with low cost living and extrodinarily rich clients - so why are we not getting an excellent salary to enjoy in our low cost situation?
I'm also astounded to see that there are interns in their twenties making $50K plus a year. They may have exceptional computer skills but certainly do not have the experience to detail a building or run a job yet. The computer age has added value to the young computer genius intern who can produce incredible renderings and models. Yes they end up getting great money due to the marketing value of wonderful images, however, I have met of few of these folks that are frustrated after a few years because they are never given real world skills to become well rounded architects - in other words they become typecast as pretty-picture-makers and not designers, architects, job captains, or project managers. At 42 now I started by hand drafting and did not have computers in school. When I entered the job market employees were only interested in seeing our drafting skills and lettering abilities! I love seeing portfolios today - older generation architects hire these youngsters after being wowed by the wonderful 3D imagery. We hired a few such folk and once they are put in a drafting situation do not have any graphic ability to make everyday working drawings look good let alone even know how to draw a typical stud wall section. An architect friend of mine who has his own firm has the potential future employee draw a wall section by hand as part of the interview procees - nothing complicated, just a 6" frame wall on standard footings. Sorry to rant but being old school I'm always a bit sad to see some basics lost to technology.
caferacer - there is a big difference between an intern that's 23 ys/old and just out of a BArch and a 29 yr/old intern that's completed IDP, started the ARE's and has 6+ years of experience. And remember, $50k isn't exactly a "good" salary anymore. That won't qualify you to buy a house or condo in most any major American city. I understand you frusturation with recent grads lack of real world knowledge, but the "pretty picture" honeymoon fades quite quickly.
A decent accurate salary poll is good for letting people know their value in the market place. For years I was low paid while gaining experience. Come raise time I would hear from the principal how little he was paid at my age. After getting fed up with my wage I started job hunting and the salary offers blew me away. I had been getting used for the profit of a greedy principal for at least a year or more. That's who is making the money. And yes, you're gonna have to pay a 20 something intern $50k, I have been exceeding that for years.
caferacer
i'm 43 and when i got out of my march program i could not draw a 6" frame wall either .. but it doesn't really take very long to learn how to draw it does it? i hope for your sake that your computer skills are up to date because there is nothing sadder than a 40 year old architect who still can't open and print an (autocad) drawing
salary poll - the only problem with the salary pole is that's it's completely unreadable. all we need is graphs per major cities plotting age vs salary.
I am quite versatile at the computer and take pride in making beautiful drawing sets. I'm starting to sound like my paraents when griping about technological advances. I learn on a need to know basis so I still can't program a VCR and the clock on my microwave is still blinking. Yes - charts, graphs, regions, ages, etc.....will really paint the picture. I choose to live where I am instead of moving to where I can make double the money. Money has never been a driving force for me but I do believe one should be compensated fairly regardless. It is naturally a slap in the face to allow yourself to be taken advantage of. On a lighter note, I work for a boutique firm and may projects are my projects - not the egos that own the company. That in itself is a MAJOR perk. No more spineless agreeing with the principals because they sign your checks.
Be able to search certain locations to find comp salaries without searching through every page. Perhaps there is a way to do this, unfortunately I have not found it yet.
I think it would be interesting to see educational information, such as the grad school attended and type of degree attained, in addition to salary and experience.
Personally, I really like the information that is already provided. However, I would really like to see a sort function... you know the kind.. Click on age and it sorts all the entries by age, click on salary and it sorts all the entries by salary. And most importantly, click on location and it sorts by location. It can be quite difficult to find relevant data (to you personally), but I think this could be remedied by a simple sort function, rather than graphs. Or, if everyone really wanted graphs, then perhaps we could have both.
although this may be difficult to do, i would love (LOVE) to see an interactive datascape of salary information.
imagine the possibilites archinectors: one datascape based on type of degree vs salary; another for age vs salary; oh, oh what about gender vs salary; geographical location vs salary. comeon', we are all datascape lovers here.
on a more realistic note, i would like to see a section for the rate of hourly freelance work. although i am a corporate whore in the architecture world, i do plenty of freelance work to support my passion for international travel (read: crack money). i am interested to know what other people charge hourly for good 'ol fashioned freelance work.
Only licensed, suspender and bow-tie clad AIA members deserve more than 50K per year. They are more creative thus resulting in much better architecture. Of course, computer mad text-message freaks that can cut-and-paste fashion models on their computer renderings of beaver dam stick piles and crumpled foil to in order to bring some reality to otherwise inplausible structures also deserve much higher salaries straight out of school. I personaly think those who are dressed or act like Dieter, Nooni or Nuni ( as from SNL's Sprockets or Art dealer skits) are far more likely to receive the big bucks since they definitely come across as highly creative individuals.
I don't deal with clients if they don't at least have some Prada or Gaultier in their wardrobe but will make an exception for the odd individual who says they know Paris Hilton. Anyway, back to salaries...we certainly are not in it for the money - even the best paid liars are claiming 100k per year which certainly doesnt make for much wealth in this day and age. I need a drink.
New Archinect Salary Poll
Another pro of the rolling salary poll is that every time you get a new job or job offer you can go and record it right away.
A detailed explanation of benefits; soon after I joined my firm they switched to a high-deductible ($1500) health care plan, and I have to pay for half my health insurance...no dental...no vision...and a rude awakening with the first $250 trip to the e-room.
at any rate, would be nice to see a portion of the poll that could detail benefits, because I'm curious if this is at all a trend in the AE world. and it's something most people don't consider when negotiating salary.
might be extremely detailed...but helpful.
I would be in support of the schools attended...having first hand knowledge of specific state schools and specific Ivy league schools I am well aware of certain discourses that are present in one and totally absent in the other....and this goes both ways from the states to the ivys and vice versa so...depending on the type of job, who it was with, etc...the school the person attened would help explain the salary perhaps
$USD v. £ v. €, etc... cause you have members all over the NAFTA, Eurozone and beyond.
Members only. (To reduce on garbage data.)
Gender is relevant, but maybe should be optional entry. (Other fields should be mandatory for most part.)
That sounds like something a man would say... Keep gender as a required field. Wouldn't you like to know if there's a gender gap in architecture? I sure would.
Ha, I agree with rationalist.
As for including school: I think it's an awful idea. It would only amplify problems of competition and perception already extent in the field. There isn't a correlation between school and salary anyway, and if there is, there flat out shouldn't be and no one should encourage it. If you are talented, or a hard work, or lazy, or a bad designer, or what-have-you--that's what has a bearing on your employment, and your degree should not. Each school turns out plenty of each. And anyway different schools specialize in different parts of the field, of what use would it even be to attempt to compare them? I think this sort of thing just leads to further classism and divisiveness. That is a horrible, harmful idea.
I'm happy with the current system. It is interesting to be able to look through and see all the personal comments everyone has given. I think a few important items should be on there and be able to be sorted by. I also think it is important to leave an area for comments, and this is where people can add things such as where they went to school, their age, if they are m/f, or if they are just a lazy ass cad monkey who spends their days on archinect.
Of course, I wasn't talking about myself in the comment above. Ha!!!
I agree with an earlier post (way up towards the top of this somewhere) that things like "school attended" and age should be voluntary slots on either member profiles or the salary poll. It would actually be interesting to give people the option to list what school they went to and see if they choose to.
As someone just finishing grad school I'd be interested to see salaries for more junior positions divided up by school. Myriam is right, there shouldn't be a correlation between school and salary... but I'd be interested to see if there is.
As a UK Archinecter I'd like to be able to filter results so that I only see other UK salaries. However, it'd also be interesting to be able to directly compare UK and US salaries (and other countries, of course). Would it be possible to link some form of currency converter into the system? That way we in the UK could type in our salaries and see a proper comparison with US 'necters, all in the same currency.
Could be complex, but could also show some interesting results...
For those like me that have the constant itch of moving it'd be nice to map opportunities like this except that the filters could be:
1. Location
2. Years of experiece
3. Type of work
So you'd be able to zero in on what a junior architect with 2 years of experience can expect in LA as compared to NYC for example. It'd be sweet if you can compare markets also. Like if you type in your variables it would map out what individuals with similar level are making across the city, country or world.
"longitudinal studies"
get some guinea pigs, er uh volunteers
i doubt only 5 guinea pigs would give good stats.
is www.salary.com useless?
If there is a way to filter the search it would be much more help (i.e. location, education)
danka
haven't read the other suggestions, but i am sure they are all very suggestive.
I think you need a search function, and also what currency are we quoting in? this is probably the biggest issue. and a graph, and a map. good work.
I would appreciate some input on this:
I am about to graduate with an M.Arch (3+). I have about eight years' experience doing corporate interiors (glorified space planning) and project management. To what extent, if at all, will this experience count toward determining my salary as an intern architect?
Survery needs some kind of tools to compare by age, area, etc.
Also, very imoprtantly, there is no date the salaries are posted so the numbers could be 6 years old. One can't reliably compare them to current salaries.
size of company / number of architects on staff.
type of work - college & University, healthcare, international, etc...
give us a way to filter results based on location/salary/experience/firm type. this would be very helpful
fantastic Paul (it's been some time for me to post)
Glad to see more useful information added to the site.
Location seems to be vital (even though some pointed out that it may not be) as I have heard in the news today that us in Los Angeles, earn about 15% less than those in the same position, elsewhere in the state of California. Quite unbeliveable....I wonder how our profession fairs in with this in mind!
I did skim the suggestions and most of them are pretty good. How to implement really becomes your challenge. I did not see a suggestion to separate those who were in ownership positions vs. those who are not. Setting your own salary and deciding how much of the profit to take off the table for your own use really puts you in a different position than those that need to negotiate their salary/benefit package based on skill, experience, location and fitting in with that particular team or environment.
Would you condsider opening the poll to Landscape Architects? As is frequently the case, we are a group that is often late in being asked to the table.
Sort by location. City, state or country.
I think the data needs to be entered in a way that is more structured. As it stands it is mostly free form and everyone is filling in different information. Also it would be nice for you to be able to graph information automatically instead of having to basically do data entry with extracted information from each respondent. I would love to see the results of the survey thus far, but in order for the data to have more signifigance, there should be more data gathered from each area. Maybe information can be obtained from alumni organizations - some schools, (take Syracuse for example) take salary polls from its alumni on a regular basis. Also the AIA may be a source for information.
<<Suggestions for sorting categories:
4. Degree (none; BA/BS; BArch; MA/MS; MArch; PhD)>>
And to that I'd add, some option of showing every degree a person holds, not just their highest-level education (BS -- MArch -- PhD is a very different track than BFA -- PhD, or B.ARch -- MFA and so on)
Also, when tracking gender, please do include male/female/other. I'm curious to hear from anyone in the profession who falls outside of the binary gender system and would prefer to publicly take the stance of acknowledging the non-normative.
let the Archinet Salary Poll change requests flow!!!! :)
Susan, don't most "other" genders actually identify with a particular gender, whether biologically predisposed or not? I would imagine the question should be: "gender preference : m/f" although I guess you may as well leave "other" in there just in case.
can we have the school that the degree is from be included in the poll??? may help clear up once and for all the 'which architecture school is better????' question
just a thought
if this has already been posted above, sorry. I usually dont read the threads
uhhhhhhh...how does showing which school the degree was obtained show which school is better? Isn't that a very qualitatitve approach to a philosophical question? why not just read us news reports?
I've been trying to get a better idea of teaching salaries @ universities. Hard info to come by.
i think there should be a search query for the salary poll. or a filter by region at least. just my two cents.
Software skills and use.
Virtually every job listing basically says, "It doesn't matter how much relevant experience you have, don't bother us if you aren't fluent in AutoCad"
I won't ran't about this situation, but it would help to know whether people can be gainfully employed - and how much they earn - if they don't fit the mold or use software from other vendors.
Thanks
I appreciate Susan's concern for those who don't fall under the traditional m/f category.
In fact, I once saw a monkey doing CAD work!
m/f/monkey!
Cost of living is a huge factor, however, I have worked all across the country and it doesnt always come into play. I am most interested with who is getting rich if the worker bees are not. In other words, most firms may get 8 to 12 percent of the cost of construction of say of a million dollar home regardless of where in the country that house gets built, yet in the areas of lower cost of living the workers are getting less money. Who is pocketing that chunk of change? We are a boutique firm with rich clients and a resonable cost of living, low property taxes, yet build multi-million dollar projects. Most architects working for firms in the area are not making that much $$. Are the principles and owners the ones making out like bandits and hiding the fact? When I worked in Aspen, the cost of living was extrodinarily high, the clients extrodinarily rich, and the salary was excellent yet I still was poor, so I do believe regions are a factor, however, in my current situation I do not believe that to be true - we are basically an Aspen with low cost living and extrodinarily rich clients - so why are we not getting an excellent salary to enjoy in our low cost situation?
I'm also astounded to see that there are interns in their twenties making $50K plus a year. They may have exceptional computer skills but certainly do not have the experience to detail a building or run a job yet. The computer age has added value to the young computer genius intern who can produce incredible renderings and models. Yes they end up getting great money due to the marketing value of wonderful images, however, I have met of few of these folks that are frustrated after a few years because they are never given real world skills to become well rounded architects - in other words they become typecast as pretty-picture-makers and not designers, architects, job captains, or project managers. At 42 now I started by hand drafting and did not have computers in school. When I entered the job market employees were only interested in seeing our drafting skills and lettering abilities! I love seeing portfolios today - older generation architects hire these youngsters after being wowed by the wonderful 3D imagery. We hired a few such folk and once they are put in a drafting situation do not have any graphic ability to make everyday working drawings look good let alone even know how to draw a typical stud wall section. An architect friend of mine who has his own firm has the potential future employee draw a wall section by hand as part of the interview procees - nothing complicated, just a 6" frame wall on standard footings. Sorry to rant but being old school I'm always a bit sad to see some basics lost to technology.
caferacer - there is a big difference between an intern that's 23 ys/old and just out of a BArch and a 29 yr/old intern that's completed IDP, started the ARE's and has 6+ years of experience. And remember, $50k isn't exactly a "good" salary anymore. That won't qualify you to buy a house or condo in most any major American city. I understand you frusturation with recent grads lack of real world knowledge, but the "pretty picture" honeymoon fades quite quickly.
A decent accurate salary poll is good for letting people know their value in the market place. For years I was low paid while gaining experience. Come raise time I would hear from the principal how little he was paid at my age. After getting fed up with my wage I started job hunting and the salary offers blew me away. I had been getting used for the profit of a greedy principal for at least a year or more. That's who is making the money. And yes, you're gonna have to pay a 20 something intern $50k, I have been exceeding that for years.
caferacer
i'm 43 and when i got out of my march program i could not draw a 6" frame wall either .. but it doesn't really take very long to learn how to draw it does it? i hope for your sake that your computer skills are up to date because there is nothing sadder than a 40 year old architect who still can't open and print an (autocad) drawing
salary poll - the only problem with the salary pole is that's it's completely unreadable. all we need is graphs per major cities plotting age vs salary.
graphs/maps that show the relationships between these 4 factors:
1. firm fees (per employee?)
2. salary (including bonuses)
3. years worked (total.. not just at one firm)
4. cost of living (linked to geography)
these are the most important factors, as far as i'm concerned...
school, age, sex... none of these things mean anything when it really comes down to it.
I am quite versatile at the computer and take pride in making beautiful drawing sets. I'm starting to sound like my paraents when griping about technological advances. I learn on a need to know basis so I still can't program a VCR and the clock on my microwave is still blinking. Yes - charts, graphs, regions, ages, etc.....will really paint the picture. I choose to live where I am instead of moving to where I can make double the money. Money has never been a driving force for me but I do believe one should be compensated fairly regardless. It is naturally a slap in the face to allow yourself to be taken advantage of. On a lighter note, I work for a boutique firm and may projects are my projects - not the egos that own the company. That in itself is a MAJOR perk. No more spineless agreeing with the principals because they sign your checks.
Be able to search certain locations to find comp salaries without searching through every page. Perhaps there is a way to do this, unfortunately I have not found it yet.
any updates on when the salary poll section will be updated with some new changes or organization? .... (hopefully with a search option)
I think it would be interesting to see educational information, such as the grad school attended and type of degree attained, in addition to salary and experience.
Personally, I really like the information that is already provided. However, I would really like to see a sort function... you know the kind.. Click on age and it sorts all the entries by age, click on salary and it sorts all the entries by salary. And most importantly, click on location and it sorts by location. It can be quite difficult to find relevant data (to you personally), but I think this could be remedied by a simple sort function, rather than graphs. Or, if everyone really wanted graphs, then perhaps we could have both.
although this may be difficult to do, i would love (LOVE) to see an interactive datascape of salary information.
imagine the possibilites archinectors: one datascape based on type of degree vs salary; another for age vs salary; oh, oh what about gender vs salary; geographical location vs salary. comeon', we are all datascape lovers here.
on a more realistic note, i would like to see a section for the rate of hourly freelance work. although i am a corporate whore in the architecture world, i do plenty of freelance work to support my passion for international travel (read: crack money). i am interested to know what other people charge hourly for good 'ol fashioned freelance work.
OK, Archintect, it's been almost a year. Where's the new and improved salary survey?
Respectfully,
Citizen
Damn it, I hate when I misspell during indignation ;)
"OK, Archinect..."
Only licensed, suspender and bow-tie clad AIA members deserve more than 50K per year. They are more creative thus resulting in much better architecture. Of course, computer mad text-message freaks that can cut-and-paste fashion models on their computer renderings of beaver dam stick piles and crumpled foil to in order to bring some reality to otherwise inplausible structures also deserve much higher salaries straight out of school. I personaly think those who are dressed or act like Dieter, Nooni or Nuni ( as from SNL's Sprockets or Art dealer skits) are far more likely to receive the big bucks since they definitely come across as highly creative individuals.
I don't deal with clients if they don't at least have some Prada or Gaultier in their wardrobe but will make an exception for the odd individual who says they know Paris Hilton. Anyway, back to salaries...we certainly are not in it for the money - even the best paid liars are claiming 100k per year which certainly doesnt make for much wealth in this day and age. I need a drink.
Key filter items:
-Years experience
-Location
-Licensure
-Size of firm
i would really like to be able to sort through different subjects. i spend too much time sifting through other cities that aren't relevant.
Having a way to edit your own posted information (or delete entirely) would be good.
Why might one want to do this you might ask. Oh, because I just got my final ARE pass letter from NCARB!
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