well there is the benefit that condo developers can use the potentially dramatic reductions in energy costs for the buyers as a selling point.

The USGBC has a lot of research on its website:
http://www.usgbc.org/DisplayPage.aspx?CMSPageID=78&

I would say that you may talk about the fact that a lot of people want to buy green, people are making Whole Foods the fastest growing supermarket chain in America although it costs more, i believe that in the housing market that is an untapped market.

plus green buildings don't always cost more upfront.

High rise residential:
The Solaire
The Helena
Any Battery Park City project built in the last 5 yrs

I'm currently working on a 60-story high rise with rentals going for LEED
My roommate is working on a Battery Park City high rise condo, also going for LEED

I know of at least 2-3 more high rise residential buildings going for LEED, which don't have the rating yet

I also working on a 8 story condo project where the developer is building a "green" building, unsure about LEED rating.

Another selling point, which, in NYC is HUGE, is indoor air quality. Talk about (and build buildings) with better ventilation and filtration. Talk about health of the indoor materials: low-VOC paints, adhesives, sealants, etc.

Also, there is an affordable/low-income rental (and perhaps condo) project up in Harlem, that used geothermal heating/cooling, and achieved LEED gold (?). 1400 5th Ave.

Besides, +q is right. There are a number of things developers can do which don't cost more money upfront: 100% recycled content gypsum, 45% (by volume) slag in concrete, high recycled content steel, low-voc paints.

make sure the cops dont get you

good one mdler... :)

pick it, pack it, fire it up
come along, and take a hit from the bong...

I am currently trying to build a "green" home for myself and in some areas the desire to acheive some of the inital green targets are compromised by scale and cost. Just today I am having to back off some green targets I had set for my self due to cost / benefit. As much as I am trying certain things are just not going to be practical.

My efforts are an honest attempt to do the right thing but also practical in saying that where it doesn't make sense for me I am making decisions to report back to the local authority and say that some of their "ideals" about building certain things into a project are just not realistic. Its been a good experience. So far the green roof is in but the geothermal heating system is not! I am on to Photovoltaic's next.

Thanks for all these great suggestions, samsonoio & +q.

I've already looked at many of the studies that USGBC lists. The key is quantifying the cost benefits to the developer client. Their attitude is minimizing upfront costs to maximize profit. Even if most green features have a long-term returns on investment, we're dealing with a short-term mentality that doesn't care what long term returns are.

So I need to find a pitch that equates spending $X will increase their profit by $2X. Just because something will pay for itself in the sales price of a condo, the cost of financing limits what these guys will spring for.

Some background on the project: Los Angeles area, almost 300 units on 1.6 acres, concrete frame/slab (probably), 4 levels of parking, thats going through entitlement right now. The client is excited about roof gardens and terraces as a highly profitable feature. So they have shown some interest in designing outside the typical condo box. We have a few months before starting SD and needing to get serious with going for LEED registration or not. I want to get my case for going whole-hog green, net zero carbon lined up early.

Without adding PV panels/wind turbines or any superfancy wastewater systems, it looks like we could probably get LEED-NC2.1 Silver. I want to go for the gold/platinum and make this an precedent setting project for LA. Recycled gypsum doesn't happen easily out west (we don't have enough coal-fired power plants), but the other materials are already anticipated to be included in the specs. Air quality/health is major issue at the project's location, so really good filters to stop the PM5 & PM10s are a no-brainer.

What LEED credits do apartment dwellers accept or demand? This is my first residential tower & I'm afraid to suggest composting toilets...

We've had some experience with some "outside the box" developers on some modern condo/loft/townhouses that are marketing the green aspects of the design as "added features" to potential buyers, therefore they charge more per unit. There's a growing market out there (see the Whole Foods reference above) that people are willing to pay a price premium for green, better IAQ, less energy consumption, etc.

It's not that hard to get a LEED silver - most of the points can be had during the construction process (minimizing waste/runoff) and being smart about the HVAC system. "Greenwashing" won't rack up a lot of points - One project that I worked on has one of the largest Green roofs on the west coast and it only got like two LEED credits, and using products with high recycled content had little effect on the overall LEED rating. We were shooting for silver and ended up getting a gold...

The most enivonmentaly friendly move one can make is suicide

I'm working on a condo building in SE, DC where we are using a green roof to skirt the storm water management requirments. Ultimately I think the cost difference will be a wash, but it's certainly a good way to introduce these aspects to developers and potential homebuyers as feaible.

*bump*

this was a good thread the first go round.

Any new thoughts on tactics to get clients go above and beyond the status quo?

check out gerding edlen at http://www.gerdingedlen.com/ they're developers that went green quite awhile ago and have been extremely successful

and gbd architects who are the designers for most of their work

doing green condo's and apartments in the PNW, selling/renting like crazy.

C-cool & thanks for the link! got anymore tidbits to share?