What would y'all recommend for starting out studying for the exams? What study guides should I get? How should I space them out? Which one should I do first?
Thanks
Francis Ching ('Building Construction Illustrated' I think) has a lot of information in it, much of it relating very closely to the exams. Good Basic primer.
Christopher Alexander ('A Pattern Language') has lots of really practical, basic planning and design issues.
ARE Study guides are a help - Dorf, etc.
From there, start on the major titles in the reading lists on the ARE website
Order:
I'd suggest exams you're confident in for the first few, and don't leave the hardest one(s) until last. Schedule one every two months (slightly more time between for the harder, technical ones). I did Structures and lateral forces one day after another. Worked well, but required greater prep time.
read graphic standards from start to finish. just about everything in there is relevant. have a towel handy to bite on- its gonna be painful! good luck....
You don't need anything other than ALS, Ballasts (but watch for typos) and Prof. Dorf's Solutions.
Memorize as many questions from ALS and Ballasts as you can. Keep taking the study guide quizzes over and over until you have them down and you're scoring 100 from memory every time you go over them. The exam questions are nearly identical to what you find in the study guides. Reading any other material isn't going to hurt you but it's not the best use of your time. Some questions you could answer without studying at all, most questions you will recognize from the study guides and some questions you have no chance of getting right they're so obscure. You WILL pass! It's not that hard!
I started with some of the non graphic ones - I think Mech & Elec. and Materials and Methods. I'd been doing a lot of MPE coordination on a project at work and ALS made these seem pretty easy. Structures was the hardest because I have such a mental block with math. I studied for close to a year and it turned out to be much easier than I thought. There were many formulas given on the test that I thought I had to memorize, so I felt I had wasted a lot of study time. The first graphic exam I took was Site Design because it had the highest pass rate in my state. That boosted my confidence a little. Start with whatever you feel comfortable with. If you haven't had a lot of contract management experience, you might want to save the CD's exam for later, when you're more comfortable with the test taking process.
The first test is the hardest because it's so unfamiliar.After the first few exams, the test center employees know you and the test site seems like a second home.
Of course this was 6 years ago and I understand the content of the exams has changed a little. Get the guides on 4 or 5 of the exams think you'll be comfortable with (you're going to have to end up buying them anyway) and you'll have an idea from them of how much you already know, how much of this is review, and which ones will be the hardest.
On an interesting note, every exam I took had a question about the Pantheon on it. It seemed to be a theme at the time. It was very funny. I spent half of my exam time wondering when I would hit the "Pantheon Question".
I notice on the NCARB website they don't say what "passing" is. When I took it, they organized it so that you either took the short version or the long version. If you scored 75% or something on the first 60 questions or so, the test stopped and you passed. If you were borderline or failing, it fed you the rest of the questions.
If you call Professor Dorf to order the Solutions books, he can tell you how it works now. When I ordered Solutions he talked to me for about 20 minutes and told me all sorts of interesting things about the exams and why he created the Solutions books. He was a grader for a number of years and still has his "finger on the pulse" of NCARB. While we were talking, his dog apparently caught a squirrel. I could hear all this barking in the background and he was telling me about this as it was happening. It was very funny! He's a very nice person.
I didn't use flash cards so I can't say whether they were more helpful than Ballast. It seems a lot of people recommend them. The advice I got, which I thought was good, was to get access to as many practice questions as possible. Ballasts has almost as many as ALS. I only used Ballast to get extra questions and there were some topics Ballast covered that ALS didn't.
The flash cards are a great supplement to the ALS. A lot of info is in there that isnt in any of the books. I never used Ballast. I've passed 8 out of 9.
Check around your office or your other architect friends. See if anyone already has the flash cards and books. They're expensive for something you will only use (hopefully) once.
Also be sure to get the NCARB books with practice questions - one for multiple choice and one for graphic. They have a limited number of practice questions but are identical to the type of questions you'll have on the tests, and slightly different formats than what they have in the als books. I used the als books (borrowed from a co-worker) and the ncarb books and passed them all the first time. I read each section of the als books and took the practice tests, paying special attention to the questions I missed. Then when I was done with each book I took the practice test in the ncarb book, and scored around 65-75%. That seemed to be enough to pass. For the graphic tests, I took them all within three weeks and practiced for a day or two before each one. I had been told you don't really need to study for those and I agree. It is important to practice with the software until you become comfortable, because it's a strange mix of a drafting and graphic program and not necessarilly intuitive. Make sure you follow the instructions, other than that it's common sense. I did have a lot of experience working on ADA upgrade projects, which probably helped in that I knew all the code requirements for door widths, stairways, turning radii etc. by heart, so if you don't have experience with that I would get the diagrams from the UBC and/or CALDAG books and practice layouts with them.
I think Building Construction Illustrated, along with Ching's Illustrated Dictionary of Architecture were excellent study guides. Actually I think that if one reads those 2 books cover to cover, reads and is familiar with the AIA contracts and the Architects Handbook of Professional Practice (student version is fine - but the 12th edition has all the contracts while the 13th edition doesn't) and uses the NCARB practice materials then you really could get away without using any of the ALS or Ballast stuff at all. The flashcards were fairly helpful to me. Also it is helpful to have a lot of experience with ADA planning and with general code isssues - though the "code" that's used on the ARE is not an exact dulplicate of any of the major codes used throughout the US.
Ormolu,
I have to disagree with you. I think what you're saying is certainly what NCARB would like for interns to have as background for taking the exam but in practice most interns are not nearly well trained enough in their jobs to take the test. Anyone who can pass the exams based on your advice is very fortunate and I don't doubt that you and some others have been able to do that. Most interns I see have never even seen a contract in use prior to the exam. You're right about the codes. It's probably very unhelpful to have actual experience with codes, but as I recall they give you the codes you need on the exam.
you could take the hardest ones first. If you fail, you can still take other ones. (you have to wait 6 months to retake an exam)
if you leave the hardest to last you may have to keep waiting six month intervals before being liscenced.
Mum: this is why I mentioned that it would be a good idea to read the contracts and the handbook of professional practice. Another thing that's helpful to read is one of those liability-for-dummies books that the large insurance companies hand out in most larger firms. The ALS book that deals with contracts has little in it that isn't in the handbook of professional practice.
I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with the ALS or Ballast books, but the thing is that all of those books are re-stating things that most interns already own in other books - i.e. if you have your structures and history books from school, and a few ching books, then you've already got 90% of the info from the exams. The total set of ALS books is, I think, in the $600 range, and the Ballast books are something like $80 each. I can't see spending nearly as much as the test on study materials.
I definately don't think it was "very unhelpful to have actual experience with codes." Even though the codes I was familiar with were not identical to the NCARB "code" it was very helpful to have solved lots of problems using the same principles (with slightly differnt numbers.) For instance: if you've figured out a few stairs in your life then you know everything you need for the stair vignette. The big differences between the NCARB code and BOCA or IBC, etc are mainly in exact numbers of inches - not overall concepts.
Ormolu, I understand what you're saying You save a lot of $ by using the resources you likely already possess. My on-the-job experience did not prepare me at all for the exam. I worked 6 years before started the exams, and I needed ALS to consolodate the information for me. I hope others have jobs that provide them with more training. Mine didn't. My own experience was that I needed ALS. It sounds like you were able to do it on a budget. That's great!
I found that reading the ALS book on construction documents and the AIA contracts was more than enough to pass the exam. I had no prior experience with contracts and thought it was one of the easier exams, just to let people know that you don't need to be intimidated just because you haven't dealt with it before. If you're in California, it's very useful information for the supplemental exam as well, and it's a good thing to understand what is covered in the contracts when dealing with clients even if you don't actually use the AIA contracts (which can be really long and involve too much detail for smaller projects). Something interesting to note that I have discovered now that we are doing design/build - the AIA design/build contract is MUCH shorter and easier to understand than the standard owner/architect contract. If you compare the two you can learn a lot about where the problems arise in the process between the owner,architect & contractor (by seeing what is left out in the design/build contract). Interestingly enough, we are also finding out that design/build general liability insurance is also MUCH more expensive than general liability insurance for construction alone. In addition to the general liability, which does not cover design errors & omissions, you also need professional liability insurance. Insurance companies do not like to cover contractors who have an architect on staff. And splitting up into two companies is a huge pain, and probably impossible in our case because we're married. Wish someone had told me that before I got my license. Anyway, I'm digressing, but it really is useful to understand why the contracts are set up the way they are and not just memorize them. Ask for advice from people with more experience, and you'll learn a lot.
So guys in Barcelona it takes an architecture student an average of 6 to 10* years to become an architect.
QUESTION:
Which is the time frame in the states if you already have your professional degree or masters?
*Note:
In Europe you don't have to take a test after you finished your degree. After completing the thesis presentation that’s it! Nevertheless, don't be fooled because it is really hard to be accepted into architecture school as well as been able to complete the degree.
It's usually a minimum of 3 years of "internship" and then the exam. In certain cases in certain states it can be slightly less (2 years in Florida with any M.Arch, for instance.) It takes the average intern more than 3 years though, by the time they get all the units and get the approval from NCARB to test. The test has 9 parts, and most people schedule them only one or two at a time - so the test itself can take anywhere from a minimum of several weeks to an average of several months to in some cases several years.
I would say, judging from my peers from SCI-Arc, it takes people on average 6-8 years to get their license after school. It can be done faster (just got mine 4 years after graduating), it just takes a lot of time which most people don't have. It also doesn't necessarilly make that much difference here, depending on what you're doing. I've recently found out, for example, that there are negatives to getting the license. We have a design/build firm, and because I'm licensed our general liability insurance is going to be 4 times more, whereas legally we could still do all the work we're doing (residential) without the license. ouch.
Ormolu, this is really awful but this is what I did. When I first started IDP, I got the packet, got all excited and started faithfully marking my units off. In 6 months I realized I wasn't getting very far. I called the IDP coordinator for my state and he told me to "be creative" with my units. Don't lie exactly, but if I spent 8 hours doing an ADA toilet, don't throw it all into CD's. Put time down for code research for looking up 18" clearance for the toilet, MEP for the fact that they were plumbing fixtures, etc. And he also said the best way to get all your units was to change jobs frequently. I had been at a job I was happy with for a year and I wasn't about to leave that job just so I could fulfill 7 more units of site planning. So I guess in the end I didn't technically fulfill all of my units, but my employers were very happy to sign off on anything to get me through IDP. I discussed this with several employers and their response was "hand me the form."
I used to get the NCARB newsletter and I wrote to them and asked how you could fulfill all your units if your firm couldn't provide them. They published the question and answer, which was . . .change jobs.
I absolutely agree that when you work on an "ADA toilet" that some of your time can go into other categories than just CDs. And when you're picking up redlines some of that may count as "document coordination", and some may really be "engineering systems coordination", etc. And I realize it's difficult to get all the units in some jobs and that switching jobs isn't always the best thing to do in every person's case. Something I don't think some employers realize though is that it's ok for the intern to just be involved with/observe tasks and phases - such as bidding/contracts - without necessarily letting an intern draw up a contract (which is something that, understandably, most employers will be reluctant to let you do.)
I think though that there's a difference between creatively allocating units to actually related areas vs. completely fabricating the total of your experience in certain required areas. For instance I think it is pretty difficult to find tasks that even "creatively" satisfy the bidding and contracts units that are not in fact related to being involved in or at least observing bidding and/or contracts. I'm aware that this fabrication happens quite frequently. But, especially if I were feeling at such a disadvantage regarding my preparedness for the tests, I'd ask my employer if I at least observe phases that I hadn't been involved in yet. Letting you tag along once in awhile or letting you "shadow" a project manager at least occasionally is not going to break the firm's budget for the year.
Some employers will let you do that and some won't. My current employers philosophy is that they don't pay interns to go out in the field. Their time is better spent doing cad. Gee . . . maybe that's why we have such a hard time keeping good interns. Hmmm.
CA - Worked for 3 years then started taking them, took me about a year... In CA, you can start taking the exams as soon as you have your professional degree (worth 5 yrs. "school")
Just took Pre-Design. Used the Balast guides, flash cards, and a bit of the ALS.
Maybe passed. Found one of the pictures in the Graphic Standards today, and kicked myself for not using it as a study guide.
I found that they test is really hit or miss. I studied the info on site planning and development and got only one or two questions on that. I did not study contracts too much because Balast doesn't stress them for the PD section...I got my ass whipped as a result.
CT - Worked for about 4 years then began to take tests.
Took non-graphic exams once a week until complete. Did not study for the next exam except after taking the previous and passed them all the first time. I thought all except MEP were a cake walk and even then MEP was not that hard.
Unfortunately, it took about 9 months to pass the graphic exams. For some reason, I could not schedule the exam at the local testing site for several months and I did not think ahead (nor did I care) to just schedule all three graphic exams, so there was a bit of time between tests. Again, graphic tests were not that hard. The only thing that was difficult was using the clumsy drawing program that they had. The most basic commands that would take 2 seconds at the office would take a lot of time. It was like trying to manually draft with a charcoal briquette and a crooked stick.
My best advice for the graphic exams is to basically buy the study guides and memorize the example questions and passing answers. My design problems were almost exactly the same problem with the slightest variation.
Mum: the contracts and bidding sections of IDP do not necessarily require any going "out into the field." There are plenty of bidding/contract tasks that happen in the office. If your employer is not willing to let you spend 15 or 20 minutes every now and then to look things over or sit in on a conference call or whatever then it is beginning to sound like the advice you got to move on to another job might not have been so bad. But your comment about interns never being sent into the field seems to mean that you also had to fabricate the entire "field" part of the Construction Administration part of IDP. Are you planning to stay with this firm? If so, are they going to let you get broader experience after you're registered? What are the advantages of this job that make you resistant to moving on?
Ormolu, I did move on from a job like that 6 years ago. The firm I'm in now gave me more opportunities because I wasn't fresh out of school. Right now I'm a project manager, have everything I need to do my job in my office, work for really great people, run the network, purchase all the code books, have pretty good clients overall (some wackos, though) I'm working on becoming ICC certified and I'm very happy. I do feel for the interns we get because I try to push my firm to let them have more exposure, but it's their firm and they sign my paychecks. I'm in a great place though.
I started writing a long post but I don't think pertains to this discussion any longer. I'm creating a new post.
I suggest learning how to the answer the type of questions that will be on the multiple choice exams by doing as many practice questions as possible. Unfortunately, the exam does not test you on knowledge but rather on how well you can reason through the question. By practicing, you will be able to not read into the question and learn not to think outside the box.
ALS or Ballast will be sufficient.
ALS, Ballast, Flash cards, and a spouse to quiz you
[it works best if your spouse is taking it too!]
my test opinion (4 yrs ago):
the graphics sections were a joke: practice the examples two or three times, you will soon see the strategy
mat'ls & methods: pretty good one to start with. clear agenda of questions & easy to find answers (i.e. Ching mentioned above).
contract docs: easy but don't start with it. (contractor's always wrong. the owner pays for everything...unless you really screw up: then they take your house and kids)
predesign: sounds easy, but don't start with it. it covers almost everything included in the other tests too
structural: tough but doable
mep: brutal for me, but got through it
don't finish on a graphic section because they take longer to grade: more waiting and anxiety
oh also...
if you can afford it, pay for a few up front and space them out by at least three weeks. this will develop some inertia for you and get you in the mindset of finishing in a reasonable time pattern.
Jul 17, 04 10:44 pm ·
·
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.
Advice on licensing exams
What would y'all recommend for starting out studying for the exams? What study guides should I get? How should I space them out? Which one should I do first?
Thanks
Francis Ching ('Building Construction Illustrated' I think) has a lot of information in it, much of it relating very closely to the exams. Good Basic primer.
Christopher Alexander ('A Pattern Language') has lots of really practical, basic planning and design issues.
ARE Study guides are a help - Dorf, etc.
From there, start on the major titles in the reading lists on the ARE website
Order:
I'd suggest exams you're confident in for the first few, and don't leave the hardest one(s) until last. Schedule one every two months (slightly more time between for the harder, technical ones). I did Structures and lateral forces one day after another. Worked well, but required greater prep time.
Good Luck, glad I'm done.
Thanks!
Question: Are there sites with examples of questions (free)?
read graphic standards from start to finish. just about everything in there is relevant. have a towel handy to bite on- its gonna be painful! good luck....
http://are-solutions.com/
i'm entrusting these sites to help me through my darkest hour....and several bottles of pure irish whiskey
...another good site.
I just used the ALS books and the flashcards. I also went to the Dorf seminar, and the David Thaddeus structural seminar.
You don't need anything other than ALS, Ballasts (but watch for typos) and Prof. Dorf's Solutions.
Memorize as many questions from ALS and Ballasts as you can. Keep taking the study guide quizzes over and over until you have them down and you're scoring 100 from memory every time you go over them. The exam questions are nearly identical to what you find in the study guides. Reading any other material isn't going to hurt you but it's not the best use of your time. Some questions you could answer without studying at all, most questions you will recognize from the study guides and some questions you have no chance of getting right they're so obscure. You WILL pass! It's not that hard!
which exams do you recommend doing first (say the first two, to get me started?)
I started with some of the non graphic ones - I think Mech & Elec. and Materials and Methods. I'd been doing a lot of MPE coordination on a project at work and ALS made these seem pretty easy. Structures was the hardest because I have such a mental block with math. I studied for close to a year and it turned out to be much easier than I thought. There were many formulas given on the test that I thought I had to memorize, so I felt I had wasted a lot of study time. The first graphic exam I took was Site Design because it had the highest pass rate in my state. That boosted my confidence a little. Start with whatever you feel comfortable with. If you haven't had a lot of contract management experience, you might want to save the CD's exam for later, when you're more comfortable with the test taking process.
The first test is the hardest because it's so unfamiliar.After the first few exams, the test center employees know you and the test site seems like a second home.
Of course this was 6 years ago and I understand the content of the exams has changed a little. Get the guides on 4 or 5 of the exams think you'll be comfortable with (you're going to have to end up buying them anyway) and you'll have an idea from them of how much you already know, how much of this is review, and which ones will be the hardest.
On an interesting note, every exam I took had a question about the Pantheon on it. It seemed to be a theme at the time. It was very funny. I spent half of my exam time wondering when I would hit the "Pantheon Question".
Good luck!
One other question: What % is passing? 60%?
Thanks for all your help, this is a great thread
I notice on the NCARB website they don't say what "passing" is. When I took it, they organized it so that you either took the short version or the long version. If you scored 75% or something on the first 60 questions or so, the test stopped and you passed. If you were borderline or failing, it fed you the rest of the questions.
If you call Professor Dorf to order the Solutions books, he can tell you how it works now. When I ordered Solutions he talked to me for about 20 minutes and told me all sorts of interesting things about the exams and why he created the Solutions books. He was a grader for a number of years and still has his "finger on the pulse" of NCARB. While we were talking, his dog apparently caught a squirrel. I could hear all this barking in the background and he was telling me about this as it was happening. It was very funny! He's a very nice person.
do you think it's essential to pick up the Ballast books? or the flash cards? which do you recommend?
I didn't use flash cards so I can't say whether they were more helpful than Ballast. It seems a lot of people recommend them. The advice I got, which I thought was good, was to get access to as many practice questions as possible. Ballasts has almost as many as ALS. I only used Ballast to get extra questions and there were some topics Ballast covered that ALS didn't.
Maybe someone who used flash cards could respond.
where do I get ALS stuff? Amazon?
ALS can be purchased at:
http://www.dearborn.com/als/home.asp
The flash cards are a great supplement to the ALS. A lot of info is in there that isnt in any of the books. I never used Ballast. I've passed 8 out of 9.
Check around your office or your other architect friends. See if anyone already has the flash cards and books. They're expensive for something you will only use (hopefully) once.
thanks y'all
Also be sure to get the NCARB books with practice questions - one for multiple choice and one for graphic. They have a limited number of practice questions but are identical to the type of questions you'll have on the tests, and slightly different formats than what they have in the als books. I used the als books (borrowed from a co-worker) and the ncarb books and passed them all the first time. I read each section of the als books and took the practice tests, paying special attention to the questions I missed. Then when I was done with each book I took the practice test in the ncarb book, and scored around 65-75%. That seemed to be enough to pass. For the graphic tests, I took them all within three weeks and practiced for a day or two before each one. I had been told you don't really need to study for those and I agree. It is important to practice with the software until you become comfortable, because it's a strange mix of a drafting and graphic program and not necessarilly intuitive. Make sure you follow the instructions, other than that it's common sense. I did have a lot of experience working on ADA upgrade projects, which probably helped in that I knew all the code requirements for door widths, stairways, turning radii etc. by heart, so if you don't have experience with that I would get the diagrams from the UBC and/or CALDAG books and practice layouts with them.
freq_arch - I'm curious as to why you think Building Construction Illustrated is a good study guide?
I think Building Construction Illustrated, along with Ching's Illustrated Dictionary of Architecture were excellent study guides. Actually I think that if one reads those 2 books cover to cover, reads and is familiar with the AIA contracts and the Architects Handbook of Professional Practice (student version is fine - but the 12th edition has all the contracts while the 13th edition doesn't) and uses the NCARB practice materials then you really could get away without using any of the ALS or Ballast stuff at all. The flashcards were fairly helpful to me. Also it is helpful to have a lot of experience with ADA planning and with general code isssues - though the "code" that's used on the ARE is not an exact dulplicate of any of the major codes used throughout the US.
Ormolu,
I have to disagree with you. I think what you're saying is certainly what NCARB would like for interns to have as background for taking the exam but in practice most interns are not nearly well trained enough in their jobs to take the test. Anyone who can pass the exams based on your advice is very fortunate and I don't doubt that you and some others have been able to do that. Most interns I see have never even seen a contract in use prior to the exam. You're right about the codes. It's probably very unhelpful to have actual experience with codes, but as I recall they give you the codes you need on the exam.
you could take the hardest ones first. If you fail, you can still take other ones. (you have to wait 6 months to retake an exam)
if you leave the hardest to last you may have to keep waiting six month intervals before being liscenced.
Mum: this is why I mentioned that it would be a good idea to read the contracts and the handbook of professional practice. Another thing that's helpful to read is one of those liability-for-dummies books that the large insurance companies hand out in most larger firms. The ALS book that deals with contracts has little in it that isn't in the handbook of professional practice.
I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with the ALS or Ballast books, but the thing is that all of those books are re-stating things that most interns already own in other books - i.e. if you have your structures and history books from school, and a few ching books, then you've already got 90% of the info from the exams. The total set of ALS books is, I think, in the $600 range, and the Ballast books are something like $80 each. I can't see spending nearly as much as the test on study materials.
I definately don't think it was "very unhelpful to have actual experience with codes." Even though the codes I was familiar with were not identical to the NCARB "code" it was very helpful to have solved lots of problems using the same principles (with slightly differnt numbers.) For instance: if you've figured out a few stairs in your life then you know everything you need for the stair vignette. The big differences between the NCARB code and BOCA or IBC, etc are mainly in exact numbers of inches - not overall concepts.
it would be great if there where pdf's of them online somewhere to print instead of spending hundreds on the als books!
they are also very difficult to copy because of how they are binded, and kinkos won't copy them for you.
Ormolu, I understand what you're saying You save a lot of $ by using the resources you likely already possess. My on-the-job experience did not prepare me at all for the exam. I worked 6 years before started the exams, and I needed ALS to consolodate the information for me. I hope others have jobs that provide them with more training. Mine didn't. My own experience was that I needed ALS. It sounds like you were able to do it on a budget. That's great!
I found that reading the ALS book on construction documents and the AIA contracts was more than enough to pass the exam. I had no prior experience with contracts and thought it was one of the easier exams, just to let people know that you don't need to be intimidated just because you haven't dealt with it before. If you're in California, it's very useful information for the supplemental exam as well, and it's a good thing to understand what is covered in the contracts when dealing with clients even if you don't actually use the AIA contracts (which can be really long and involve too much detail for smaller projects). Something interesting to note that I have discovered now that we are doing design/build - the AIA design/build contract is MUCH shorter and easier to understand than the standard owner/architect contract. If you compare the two you can learn a lot about where the problems arise in the process between the owner,architect & contractor (by seeing what is left out in the design/build contract). Interestingly enough, we are also finding out that design/build general liability insurance is also MUCH more expensive than general liability insurance for construction alone. In addition to the general liability, which does not cover design errors & omissions, you also need professional liability insurance. Insurance companies do not like to cover contractors who have an architect on staff. And splitting up into two companies is a huge pain, and probably impossible in our case because we're married. Wish someone had told me that before I got my license. Anyway, I'm digressing, but it really is useful to understand why the contracts are set up the way they are and not just memorize them. Ask for advice from people with more experience, and you'll learn a lot.
Mum, out of curiosity: how could you finish IDP without ever seeing a contract? How did you get the "bidding and contracts" units?
So guys in Barcelona it takes an architecture student an average of 6 to 10* years to become an architect.
QUESTION:
Which is the time frame in the states if you already have your professional degree or masters?
*Note:
In Europe you don't have to take a test after you finished your degree. After completing the thesis presentation that’s it! Nevertheless, don't be fooled because it is really hard to be accepted into architecture school as well as been able to complete the degree.
It's usually a minimum of 3 years of "internship" and then the exam. In certain cases in certain states it can be slightly less (2 years in Florida with any M.Arch, for instance.) It takes the average intern more than 3 years though, by the time they get all the units and get the approval from NCARB to test. The test has 9 parts, and most people schedule them only one or two at a time - so the test itself can take anywhere from a minimum of several weeks to an average of several months to in some cases several years.
Thank you Ormolu.
I would say, judging from my peers from SCI-Arc, it takes people on average 6-8 years to get their license after school. It can be done faster (just got mine 4 years after graduating), it just takes a lot of time which most people don't have. It also doesn't necessarilly make that much difference here, depending on what you're doing. I've recently found out, for example, that there are negatives to getting the license. We have a design/build firm, and because I'm licensed our general liability insurance is going to be 4 times more, whereas legally we could still do all the work we're doing (residential) without the license. ouch.
Ormolu, this is really awful but this is what I did. When I first started IDP, I got the packet, got all excited and started faithfully marking my units off. In 6 months I realized I wasn't getting very far. I called the IDP coordinator for my state and he told me to "be creative" with my units. Don't lie exactly, but if I spent 8 hours doing an ADA toilet, don't throw it all into CD's. Put time down for code research for looking up 18" clearance for the toilet, MEP for the fact that they were plumbing fixtures, etc. And he also said the best way to get all your units was to change jobs frequently. I had been at a job I was happy with for a year and I wasn't about to leave that job just so I could fulfill 7 more units of site planning. So I guess in the end I didn't technically fulfill all of my units, but my employers were very happy to sign off on anything to get me through IDP. I discussed this with several employers and their response was "hand me the form."
I used to get the NCARB newsletter and I wrote to them and asked how you could fulfill all your units if your firm couldn't provide them. They published the question and answer, which was . . .change jobs.
I absolutely agree that when you work on an "ADA toilet" that some of your time can go into other categories than just CDs. And when you're picking up redlines some of that may count as "document coordination", and some may really be "engineering systems coordination", etc. And I realize it's difficult to get all the units in some jobs and that switching jobs isn't always the best thing to do in every person's case. Something I don't think some employers realize though is that it's ok for the intern to just be involved with/observe tasks and phases - such as bidding/contracts - without necessarily letting an intern draw up a contract (which is something that, understandably, most employers will be reluctant to let you do.)
I think though that there's a difference between creatively allocating units to actually related areas vs. completely fabricating the total of your experience in certain required areas. For instance I think it is pretty difficult to find tasks that even "creatively" satisfy the bidding and contracts units that are not in fact related to being involved in or at least observing bidding and/or contracts. I'm aware that this fabrication happens quite frequently. But, especially if I were feeling at such a disadvantage regarding my preparedness for the tests, I'd ask my employer if I at least observe phases that I hadn't been involved in yet. Letting you tag along once in awhile or letting you "shadow" a project manager at least occasionally is not going to break the firm's budget for the year.
Some employers will let you do that and some won't. My current employers philosophy is that they don't pay interns to go out in the field. Their time is better spent doing cad. Gee . . . maybe that's why we have such a hard time keeping good interns. Hmmm.
For those of you who are licenced, for how many years and in which state did you work after graduate school before taking the exams?
CA - Worked for 3 years then started taking them, took me about a year... In CA, you can start taking the exams as soon as you have your professional degree (worth 5 yrs. "school")
VA - 3 years to finish MARCH - Worked for 5 years. Exam took 2 years. Single parent.
Just took Pre-Design. Used the Balast guides, flash cards, and a bit of the ALS.
Maybe passed. Found one of the pictures in the Graphic Standards today, and kicked myself for not using it as a study guide.
I found that they test is really hit or miss. I studied the info on site planning and development and got only one or two questions on that. I did not study contracts too much because Balast doesn't stress them for the PD section...I got my ass whipped as a result.
Get as many guides and sources as you can.
CT - Worked for about 4 years then began to take tests.
Took non-graphic exams once a week until complete. Did not study for the next exam except after taking the previous and passed them all the first time. I thought all except MEP were a cake walk and even then MEP was not that hard.
Unfortunately, it took about 9 months to pass the graphic exams. For some reason, I could not schedule the exam at the local testing site for several months and I did not think ahead (nor did I care) to just schedule all three graphic exams, so there was a bit of time between tests. Again, graphic tests were not that hard. The only thing that was difficult was using the clumsy drawing program that they had. The most basic commands that would take 2 seconds at the office would take a lot of time. It was like trying to manually draft with a charcoal briquette and a crooked stick.
My best advice for the graphic exams is to basically buy the study guides and memorize the example questions and passing answers. My design problems were almost exactly the same problem with the slightest variation.
Good luck.
Mum: the contracts and bidding sections of IDP do not necessarily require any going "out into the field." There are plenty of bidding/contract tasks that happen in the office. If your employer is not willing to let you spend 15 or 20 minutes every now and then to look things over or sit in on a conference call or whatever then it is beginning to sound like the advice you got to move on to another job might not have been so bad. But your comment about interns never being sent into the field seems to mean that you also had to fabricate the entire "field" part of the Construction Administration part of IDP. Are you planning to stay with this firm? If so, are they going to let you get broader experience after you're registered? What are the advantages of this job that make you resistant to moving on?
Ormolu, I did move on from a job like that 6 years ago. The firm I'm in now gave me more opportunities because I wasn't fresh out of school. Right now I'm a project manager, have everything I need to do my job in my office, work for really great people, run the network, purchase all the code books, have pretty good clients overall (some wackos, though) I'm working on becoming ICC certified and I'm very happy. I do feel for the interns we get because I try to push my firm to let them have more exposure, but it's their firm and they sign my paychecks. I'm in a great place though.
I started writing a long post but I don't think pertains to this discussion any longer. I'm creating a new post.
the best advice i ever got was to just start taking the tests.
so now that i have 3 behind me, i'm glad i'm still not thinking about when i'll be ready to take them.
I suggest learning how to the answer the type of questions that will be on the multiple choice exams by doing as many practice questions as possible. Unfortunately, the exam does not test you on knowledge but rather on how well you can reason through the question. By practicing, you will be able to not read into the question and learn not to think outside the box.
ALS or Ballast will be sufficient.
ALS, Ballast, Flash cards, and a spouse to quiz you
[it works best if your spouse is taking it too!]
my test opinion (4 yrs ago):
the graphics sections were a joke: practice the examples two or three times, you will soon see the strategy
mat'ls & methods: pretty good one to start with. clear agenda of questions & easy to find answers (i.e. Ching mentioned above).
contract docs: easy but don't start with it. (contractor's always wrong. the owner pays for everything...unless you really screw up: then they take your house and kids)
predesign: sounds easy, but don't start with it. it covers almost everything included in the other tests too
structural: tough but doable
mep: brutal for me, but got through it
don't finish on a graphic section because they take longer to grade: more waiting and anxiety
oh also...
if you can afford it, pay for a few up front and space them out by at least three weeks. this will develop some inertia for you and get you in the mindset of finishing in a reasonable time pattern.
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.