time to start planning your trip to louisville for the kentucky derby, everyone. even if you don't get into the race itself, you're bound to find a derby party.
for the two weeks before the day itself, louisville is a big party + [bourbon] balloon races + [bourbon] the biggest fireworks show in the world + [bourbon] a big parade. oh, and mint juleps.
also the best time of year for touring bands hitting town. this week kt tunstall, rhett miller. end of april, among other things: duncan sheik, martin sexton, and robinella for free on the waterfront on a wed night. more still to be announced. [immediately after derby comes the slow period for going out to shows in louisville.]
while your sittin back in your rose pink cadillac
makin bets on kentucky derby day
ill be in my basement room
with a needle and a sppon
and another girl will take my pain away
This seems like a good place to ask this question: since I'll be in Lexington, KY for three weeks this summer I feel I must begin researching which bourbon I will request in my Manhattans. Too damn embarassing to order one without naming a preferred liquor. So, my archinect imbibers, can anyone share which bourbon they prefer/suggest which one(s) I should try? I'm ready to begin heavy, heavy research.
The totally wonderful super-smart Steven Ward (and I) will be teaching at the Kentucky Governor's School for the Arts. It's a 3-week program for high school sophomores/juniors that have an interest in art, music, drama, etc. and Steven and I will be teaching the architecture component.
that sounds wonderful. i love doing work for the kids. i think your visit with mr. ward is certainly worthy of celebrating with mr. van winkle while telling jokes about mr. retro. :+)
But agreed, e, if it's really good bourbon I should try it straight. Just lately Manhattans have been a minor obsession. Thanks dml955i, I need to try Makers Mark first I think.
this has been popular around here lately. i'm partial to woodford reserve but that's because i don't know my bourbon and it's a safe (non-embarassing) default.
yes, oldfogey, spring meet is up and running at keeneland. keeneland and churchill downs have a completely different character - churchill downs is the rough and tumble urban track while keeneland is the grey stone green grass genteel place to sip your julep. both are fantastic.
liberty that restaurant i've been telling you about - proof - has their own version of a manhattan called a 'barn blind'. yummy.
A bump, in pursuit of more bourbon recommendations.
Basil Hayden's is what the kindly bartender at the Lexington Hyatt poured for me when I showed up at the bar with no form of payment. Kentuckians are so nice!
Growing up Derby Day was my favorite holliday, because it was the only day I was allowed to eat Derby Pie. put down half of one of those and you get the shakes. Find some. It's good.
I like Basil Hayden and Fighting Cock the best. Fighting Cock's taste reminds you that you're doing something unhealthy while you drink it. Also i would just as well drink Heaven Hill or Jim Beam as Maker's Mark. Not a big fan. I think Maker's Mark did a good job marketing. I think Beam's better bourbons like the peppery Basil Hayden and the round Knob Creek are much better.
My southern roommate is throwing a derby party. We already have our metal julep glasses and invitations! I can't wait. I guess I"ll ask for "Derby pie", whatever that is.
Bostonians are welcome to attend. Wish I could make it down to KY!
Derby Pie is chocolate pecan pie. I think the term "Derby Pie" is actually trademarked by a bakery in Louisville. I've only had my grandmother's. Seems like a hard thing to mess up though. It's, ummm, sweet.
kinch is right. supposedly it ain't the real derby pie if 'kern's korner' isn't imprinted into the dough on the rim of the crust. (i've had some pretty great 'fake' derby pie.)
and i just asked my local bourbon expert, my brother, about bourbon picks. (bourbon is pretty much his only drink these days. no beer or other mixed drinks. he'll have wine on occasion.) his response:
"Depends on taste. And $.
"I prefer Knob Creek vs. Maker’s/Woodford/Buffalo Trace for the same money, and I really like Pappy Van Winkle but it can be either hard to find or too expensive. The fancy bottle that I have is A.H. Hirsch, which you can’t improve on. C_ F_ [a friend of ours] keeps Old Forester, both real good and real cheap. It’s Brown-Forman, but cheaper and better than Maker’s. He also has Bulleit, but it’s too sweet/light for me. Same with Blanton’s, but they both have cool bottles.
"I tend to like “hot†bourbons, like Bookers. And D_ [another friend, a liquor rep] has one, Noah’s Mill I think, that is pretty mean. They’re good because you can use ice and just hang on to them for a while, which is good because they cost too much. For the ones listed above, I don’t use much ice. “Nearly neat†gets the idea across to people.
e, I feel like I've had something called "Rip Van Winkle" whiskey, but I'm sure it had a Van Winkle at the end of it and I'm fairly certain it wasn't bourbon. Could there be multiple Van Winkle's out there?
My best friend in LA hung out with the guy who won last year's Derby (Mike Smith). If she had bet on him I think she would have won something like $12,000. Also, his best friend is a large black ex-football player named Brian Cox. Apparently they were a lot of fun....
I still can't believe Derby Day is a holiday in Louisville but we don't even get MLK Jr. Day off. Humph.
derby day is a saturday, so you're probably off. ;)
most louisville businesses give friday off - or make it an optional day to be made up later - primarily because they know they won't get any work out of anyone.
steven, i agree with your brother. knob creek is a staple in my liqour cabinet. i do have a pappy van winkle 15yr and bought the 20yr old for a friend's birthday. both pvw's are very good. the 15yr old is about half the price as the 20yr. then there is also the pvw 23yr. mmm. obviously, those are only pulled out for special occasions. you can only get the pvw's in one liquor store in seattle. i'm not a big fan of the basil hayden's though.
Wow, thanks guys for so much bourbon help! Turns out I've been making Manhattans with Woodford Reserve (my dad drinks Manhattans and when he came to visit he brought supplies then left them here for me - hence I started drinking Manhattans). But according to some above the Woodford is good enough to drink "nearly neat" so I think I'll try it that way tonight. And I may even run to the grocery store first and pick up the making of a derby pie!!! Cheers all!
warning! derby pie is very simply an instant sugar buzz > really more like an intravenous sugar injection. (there's really not much depth or subtlety to the flavor.)
not sure it's advisable to mix your derby pie and your bourbon, but i'm sure it's been done during this time of year.
No, god, no, Steven - mixing that much sugar with even a little bourbon for me would result in a repeat of my last weekend vomit-cleaning incident. Blech.
But I've coincidentally had a craving for pecan pie in the last weeks, so I think I'll throw in some chocolate for fun. And as a toast to Derby!
It's nice to know that so many archinecters are bourbon drinkers.
I've started a small and informal bourbon club in New York. It's really just putting a name to when my friends get together to try different bourbons. If any of you are in NYC and appreciate bourbon, please email me and I'd love to invite you to one of our "meetings."
At one recent "meeting" we decided the ABC's of a perfect vacation:
Architectural tourism
Bourbon
Chill-axin'
Bourbon has become a bit of an obcession of mine within the past few years. Because there are a limited number of bourbons produced, it seems rather feasible to try all of them. (not in one sitting, obviously.) The subtle distinctions between different bourbons in part of the fun.
As of recent, I've been particularly enjoying either end of the wheat-rye spectrum. A.H. Hirsh is a delicious rye, which I tried for the first time the other week. It's very pricey here in NYC... but worth trying. W.L. Weller Centenial is one of my favorite mid-priced, wheated bourbons. okay, now I'm just giving further proof that I'm a nerd...
KY is great because it really only excells at 6 things; Basketball(although not lately), Boxing(Ali), Bourbon, Bluegrass, Fried Chicken and Horses. but its the absolute best in the world at most of that list. Also the best part of Thunder is the aftermath, where half the city's population wanders from the waterfront to their cars through downtown, which is so blocked up from the hordes of people that the people who have allready made it to their cars can't go anywhere due to lack of road space. Its like a Kentucky style disaster movie evacuate the city sequence, Kentucky style meaning no one is in a hurry. My parents actually live in Prospect, I had no idea it spawned the Derby Pie... and speaking of Prospect's culinary contributions: for everyone in Lville, incase you don't know(because you should), The Chick Inn on River Road has the best fried chicken ever. it's insanely delicious.
sellegr- we're also really good at benedictine, tobacco, catholic picnic gambling, and (i've only heard) pot. pot is one of the unspoken economic drivers of the state.
local restaurant kaelin's is recognized as the birthplace of the cheeseburger.
oh yay! great thread and thanks for starting it, steven...
the nostalgia of thinking about kentucky in the spring! to anyone curious about kentucky culture, this is definitely the time of year to plan a visit. this thread is making me miss bourbon-sipping and two-dollar bets at keeneland on april fridays....and then dinner and drinks at ramseys that night.
..and speaking of louisville (prospect) trivia...did you know that just around the corner, the 'happy birthday' song was invented by a couple of clever ladies in anchorage? amaze your friends with *that*.
also..to lb.: how great you and stephen are teaching at the gsa! lexington is very quiet and peaceful in the summertime. a few recommendations/things i miss the most (i'm in boston)...or just things that are too close for you not to visit:
ashland, home of henry clay (take a blanket and a drawing book; gardens are super as well) - my favorite spot to sit by myself
gratz park
distilleries just steps outside of city (woodford reserve, buffalo trace, and many many more)
drive the paris pike and ky scenic by-way; lots of limestone fences!
saturday morning farmer's market on vine street (and the fiddler)
shakertown at pleasant hill
the kentucky theatre on main street for an independent film
and for food...
most favorite -- oasis mediterranean restaurant in chevy chase for the best chicken shwarma wrap
ramsey's has the best derby pie -- although they can't call it that (trademark reasons and whatnot) -- so it's 'may day' pie. they also have a great kentucky hot brown.
alfalfa's on main street for super local food...great menu changes depending on what is locally fresh and in season
rincon has best margaritas
rebecca-ruth candies (way out on versailles road, if you go on driving excursion...or even worth the trip just to go) has the best bourbon balls in the world.
graeter's for ice cream (although it's borrowed from cincinnati)
rincon has best margaritas
now, lb, don't get your hopes up seeing all the wonderful things ess has promised. my experience last year was that i saw the studio, the assembly hall, and my room - and not much of the last - over the three weeks. we'll try to do better, but....
yes to uk! this thread is making me pine for ky...
i second old fogey's push for high bridge. i remember the amazement i had when seeing it for the first time -- and that never seems to go away. the scale is colossal and the conflict of man-made object v. nature in full force. would be an incredible gsa field trip... (*hint hint*)
(..and lynagh's is okay....but i'm more of a mccarthy's girl, myself.)
another thing of interest in lexington (especially for your gsa kiddies)might be the tobacco warehouses around the area of angliana avenue. i cannot even begin to count how many have been demolished for some cheap and fast construction project -- but they are phenomenal spaces...acres of old wood floor below a rhythm of marching skylights and clad in an unsuspecting ad-hoc shell. and..i can't think of anything else in the world to compare to the smell of raw, old, and dried tabacco. it's in the pores of the building, even after all this time.
i know this is, in technical terms, a 'derby thread'...and i'm afraid that i might have been the hijacker turning it into a lexington thread. it's just that l.b. mentioned heading there this summer...a wave of nostalgia swept over...and -- no more excuses. it's back to a derby thread again.
you guys making me want to drink again. i am glad i got my pills...
this is a beautiful thread.
wow the birthplace of cheeseburger. i know the daughter of chilidog's inventor in los angeles.
ouch. the hailstone.
derby time
time to start planning your trip to louisville for the kentucky derby, everyone. even if you don't get into the race itself, you're bound to find a derby party.
for the two weeks before the day itself, louisville is a big party + [bourbon] balloon races + [bourbon] the biggest fireworks show in the world + [bourbon] a big parade. oh, and mint juleps.
also the best time of year for touring bands hitting town. this week kt tunstall, rhett miller. end of april, among other things: duncan sheik, martin sexton, and robinella for free on the waterfront on a wed night. more still to be announced. [immediately after derby comes the slow period for going out to shows in louisville.]
while your sittin back in your rose pink cadillac
makin bets on kentucky derby day
ill be in my basement room
with a needle and a sppon
and another girl will take my pain away
rhett is coming to indy next week
kt tunstall was here recently
she is quite a fox...
The Townes Van Zandt cover of Dead Flowers is one of my favorite. Mint juleps all around!
especially in bowling movies...
White Russians all around!
This seems like a good place to ask this question: since I'll be in Lexington, KY for three weeks this summer I feel I must begin researching which bourbon I will request in my Manhattans. Too damn embarassing to order one without naming a preferred liquor. So, my archinect imbibers, can anyone share which bourbon they prefer/suggest which one(s) I should try? I'm ready to begin heavy, heavy research.
my favorite of late is the pappy van winkle 20yr. 15yr will do in a pinch. i would not put either of those in a mixed drink though.
can i score some of the same drugs the horsies are on???
lb, what will you be doing in kentucky?
getting lucky...:)
The totally wonderful super-smart Steven Ward (and I) will be teaching at the Kentucky Governor's School for the Arts. It's a 3-week program for high school sophomores/juniors that have an interest in art, music, drama, etc. and Steven and I will be teaching the architecture component.
I'm really, really excited about it.
that sounds wonderful. i love doing work for the kids. i think your visit with mr. ward is certainly worthy of celebrating with mr. van winkle while telling jokes about mr. retro. :+)
My regular bourbon of choice is Makers Mark, but for special occasions, I like Knob Creek or Woodford Reserve. Baker's is pretty good too...
hmmmm....bourbon. Think I'll go pour a tumbler-full now...
But agreed, e, if it's really good bourbon I should try it straight. Just lately Manhattans have been a minor obsession. Thanks dml955i, I need to try Makers Mark first I think.
yeah, for your manhattan either the makers or knob creek that dml recommends will do. i believe the pappy 20yr retails for $90/bottle.
this has been popular around here lately. i'm partial to woodford reserve but that's because i don't know my bourbon and it's a safe (non-embarassing) default.
yes, oldfogey, spring meet is up and running at keeneland. keeneland and churchill downs have a completely different character - churchill downs is the rough and tumble urban track while keeneland is the grey stone green grass genteel place to sip your julep. both are fantastic.
liberty that restaurant i've been telling you about - proof - has their own version of a manhattan called a 'barn blind'. yummy.
A bump, in pursuit of more bourbon recommendations.
Basil Hayden's is what the kindly bartender at the Lexington Hyatt poured for me when I showed up at the bar with no form of payment. Kentuckians are so nice!
in deming new mexico they have a duck race every year...
Growing up Derby Day was my favorite holliday, because it was the only day I was allowed to eat Derby Pie. put down half of one of those and you get the shakes. Find some. It's good.
I like Basil Hayden and Fighting Cock the best. Fighting Cock's taste reminds you that you're doing something unhealthy while you drink it. Also i would just as well drink Heaven Hill or Jim Beam as Maker's Mark. Not a big fan. I think Maker's Mark did a good job marketing. I think Beam's better bourbons like the peppery Basil Hayden and the round Knob Creek are much better.
i love bourbon.
My southern roommate is throwing a derby party. We already have our metal julep glasses and invitations! I can't wait. I guess I"ll ask for "Derby pie", whatever that is.
Bostonians are welcome to attend. Wish I could make it down to KY!
they're selling $1,000 mint juleps this year...
sign me up.
Derby Pie is chocolate pecan pie. I think the term "Derby Pie" is actually trademarked by a bakery in Louisville. I've only had my grandmother's. Seems like a hard thing to mess up though. It's, ummm, sweet.
Oh, she actually said she was going to make that. Score!
kinch is right. supposedly it ain't the real derby pie if 'kern's korner' isn't imprinted into the dough on the rim of the crust. (i've had some pretty great 'fake' derby pie.)
and i just asked my local bourbon expert, my brother, about bourbon picks. (bourbon is pretty much his only drink these days. no beer or other mixed drinks. he'll have wine on occasion.) his response:
"Depends on taste. And $.
"I prefer Knob Creek vs. Maker’s/Woodford/Buffalo Trace for the same money, and I really like Pappy Van Winkle but it can be either hard to find or too expensive. The fancy bottle that I have is A.H. Hirsch, which you can’t improve on. C_ F_ [a friend of ours] keeps Old Forester, both real good and real cheap. It’s Brown-Forman, but cheaper and better than Maker’s. He also has Bulleit, but it’s too sweet/light for me. Same with Blanton’s, but they both have cool bottles.
"I tend to like “hot†bourbons, like Bookers. And D_ [another friend, a liquor rep] has one, Noah’s Mill I think, that is pretty mean. They’re good because you can use ice and just hang on to them for a while, which is good because they cost too much. For the ones listed above, I don’t use much ice. “Nearly neat†gets the idea across to people.
"Always a fun topic. I’m thirsty."
e, I feel like I've had something called "Rip Van Winkle" whiskey, but I'm sure it had a Van Winkle at the end of it and I'm fairly certain it wasn't bourbon. Could there be multiple Van Winkle's out there?
My best friend in LA hung out with the guy who won last year's Derby (Mike Smith). If she had bet on him I think she would have won something like $12,000. Also, his best friend is a large black ex-football player named Brian Cox. Apparently they were a lot of fun....
I still can't believe Derby Day is a holiday in Louisville but we don't even get MLK Jr. Day off. Humph.
derby day is a saturday, so you're probably off. ;)
most louisville businesses give friday off - or make it an optional day to be made up later - primarily because they know they won't get any work out of anyone.
steven, i agree with your brother. knob creek is a staple in my liqour cabinet. i do have a pappy van winkle 15yr and bought the 20yr old for a friend's birthday. both pvw's are very good. the 15yr old is about half the price as the 20yr. then there is also the pvw 23yr. mmm. obviously, those are only pulled out for special occasions. you can only get the pvw's in one liquor store in seattle. i'm not a big fan of the basil hayden's though.
wonderK, the van winkles do have a couple of rips in the family.
http://www.oldripvanwinkle.com/newbs/vw/website3.nsf/wProducts?readForm&t=Products
indeed.
Wow, thanks guys for so much bourbon help! Turns out I've been making Manhattans with Woodford Reserve (my dad drinks Manhattans and when he came to visit he brought supplies then left them here for me - hence I started drinking Manhattans). But according to some above the Woodford is good enough to drink "nearly neat" so I think I'll try it that way tonight. And I may even run to the grocery store first and pick up the making of a derby pie!!! Cheers all!
warning! derby pie is very simply an instant sugar buzz > really more like an intravenous sugar injection. (there's really not much depth or subtlety to the flavor.)
not sure it's advisable to mix your derby pie and your bourbon, but i'm sure it's been done during this time of year.
No, god, no, Steven - mixing that much sugar with even a little bourbon for me would result in a repeat of my last weekend vomit-cleaning incident. Blech.
But I've coincidentally had a craving for pecan pie in the last weeks, so I think I'll throw in some chocolate for fun. And as a toast to Derby!
It's nice to know that so many archinecters are bourbon drinkers.
I've started a small and informal bourbon club in New York. It's really just putting a name to when my friends get together to try different bourbons. If any of you are in NYC and appreciate bourbon, please email me and I'd love to invite you to one of our "meetings."
At one recent "meeting" we decided the ABC's of a perfect vacation:
Architectural tourism
Bourbon
Chill-axin'
Bourbon has become a bit of an obcession of mine within the past few years. Because there are a limited number of bourbons produced, it seems rather feasible to try all of them. (not in one sitting, obviously.) The subtle distinctions between different bourbons in part of the fun.
As of recent, I've been particularly enjoying either end of the wheat-rye spectrum. A.H. Hirsh is a delicious rye, which I tried for the first time the other week. It's very pricey here in NYC... but worth trying. W.L. Weller Centenial is one of my favorite mid-priced, wheated bourbons. okay, now I'm just giving further proof that I'm a nerd...
mm, we love nerds. especially when it comes to our drink.
KY is great because it really only excells at 6 things; Basketball(although not lately), Boxing(Ali), Bourbon, Bluegrass, Fried Chicken and Horses. but its the absolute best in the world at most of that list. Also the best part of Thunder is the aftermath, where half the city's population wanders from the waterfront to their cars through downtown, which is so blocked up from the hordes of people that the people who have allready made it to their cars can't go anywhere due to lack of road space. Its like a Kentucky style disaster movie evacuate the city sequence, Kentucky style meaning no one is in a hurry. My parents actually live in Prospect, I had no idea it spawned the Derby Pie... and speaking of Prospect's culinary contributions: for everyone in Lville, incase you don't know(because you should), The Chick Inn on River Road has the best fried chicken ever. it's insanely delicious.
sellegr- we're also really good at benedictine, tobacco, catholic picnic gambling, and (i've only heard) pot. pot is one of the unspoken economic drivers of the state.
local restaurant kaelin's is recognized as the birthplace of the cheeseburger.
Perhaps I'll have to make a special trip to Seattle sometime soon...
For NYC residents, or those just visiting, may I suggest:
http://lenells.com/features/features_bourbon.php
(LeNell's claims to sell every bourbon legally for-sale in the State of New York.)
http://brandylibrary.com/sections/menus/whiskeys.htm
(scroll down for the bourbon list.)
oh yay! great thread and thanks for starting it, steven...
the nostalgia of thinking about kentucky in the spring! to anyone curious about kentucky culture, this is definitely the time of year to plan a visit. this thread is making me miss bourbon-sipping and two-dollar bets at keeneland on april fridays....and then dinner and drinks at ramseys that night.
..and speaking of louisville (prospect) trivia...did you know that just around the corner, the 'happy birthday' song was invented by a couple of clever ladies in anchorage? amaze your friends with *that*.
also..to lb.: how great you and stephen are teaching at the gsa! lexington is very quiet and peaceful in the summertime. a few recommendations/things i miss the most (i'm in boston)...or just things that are too close for you not to visit:
ashland, home of henry clay (take a blanket and a drawing book; gardens are super as well) - my favorite spot to sit by myself
gratz park
distilleries just steps outside of city (woodford reserve, buffalo trace, and many many more)
drive the paris pike and ky scenic by-way; lots of limestone fences!
saturday morning farmer's market on vine street (and the fiddler)
shakertown at pleasant hill
the kentucky theatre on main street for an independent film
and for food...
most favorite -- oasis mediterranean restaurant in chevy chase for the best chicken shwarma wrap
ramsey's has the best derby pie -- although they can't call it that (trademark reasons and whatnot) -- so it's 'may day' pie. they also have a great kentucky hot brown.
alfalfa's on main street for super local food...great menu changes depending on what is locally fresh and in season
rincon has best margaritas
rebecca-ruth candies (way out on versailles road, if you go on driving excursion...or even worth the trip just to go) has the best bourbon balls in the world.
graeter's for ice cream (although it's borrowed from cincinnati)
rincon has best margaritas
...in fact, those margaritas are so good that i included them twice...
uk, ess?
now, lb, don't get your hopes up seeing all the wonderful things ess has promised. my experience last year was that i saw the studio, the assembly hall, and my room - and not much of the last - over the three weeks. we'll try to do better, but....
yes to uk! this thread is making me pine for ky...
i second old fogey's push for high bridge. i remember the amazement i had when seeing it for the first time -- and that never seems to go away. the scale is colossal and the conflict of man-made object v. nature in full force. would be an incredible gsa field trip... (*hint hint*)
(..and lynagh's is okay....but i'm more of a mccarthy's girl, myself.)
another thing of interest in lexington (especially for your gsa kiddies)might be the tobacco warehouses around the area of angliana avenue. i cannot even begin to count how many have been demolished for some cheap and fast construction project -- but they are phenomenal spaces...acres of old wood floor below a rhythm of marching skylights and clad in an unsuspecting ad-hoc shell. and..i can't think of anything else in the world to compare to the smell of raw, old, and dried tabacco. it's in the pores of the building, even after all this time.
i know this is, in technical terms, a 'derby thread'...and i'm afraid that i might have been the hijacker turning it into a lexington thread. it's just that l.b. mentioned heading there this summer...a wave of nostalgia swept over...and -- no more excuses. it's back to a derby thread again.
derby derby derby !
you guys are invited in the summer. not just ess and oldfogey, but the rest of you people, too. we'll put out an all-call closer to time.
but, yes, back to the business of derby.
Would a hailstone make a good ice cube for some nearly neat Kentucky bourbon?!?
those mothers dented my car. am a very unhappy vado...
you guys making me want to drink again. i am glad i got my pills...
this is a beautiful thread.
wow the birthplace of cheeseburger. i know the daughter of chilidog's inventor in los angeles.
ouch. the hailstone.
happy oaks day everyone!
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