gomout there and vist or call some graphic designfirms in your area, ask them what they charge-
tke into acount that work should be fun- and making money at it even bette!
if you have a regualr job in a designoffice and you are making x then charge a minimun of 3x-
We have agraphic designer that come into our studio and works on out stuff we pay her hourly for marketing and porfolio and to keepour web page fresh and current-

quixotica

for deisgn jobs like this, i bill on a per project basis and set limitation to scope. for instance, i might tell my client i will design X number of options [home page and one lower level page]. this client must pick on and provide feedback. i will then extend that language to all page types and provide X rounds of revisions prior to programming. for this i would charge X dollars.

i find this works well for both me and my clients. we both know what we are getting out of the deal in the beginning. if the scope is exceeded, i then talk to them about additional services.

Thanks guys, e, I like your way of doing it, it seems like it provides a better grasp on what is expected than a per hour basis would, but there are still so many variations. do you set up a sort of sliding scale depending on how flash heavy/ interactive the page is?

quixotica

for me, so many things factor into pricing a job beyond just the hours invested. who is this work for? for profit or not? do they stand to make a lot of money off of what i do for them? do i suspect they will be a difficult client to manage? you get the idea.

flash sites are more intensive. i am not a big fan of heavily intensive flash sites. i personally have a flash site, but it loads quick and you don't see the same silly transition over and over. be conscious of that. you will invest more time in perfecting those transitions from page to page though. in the past, my programmers bill about twice as much for flash as html. i've recently started farming that work out as i have too many clients to keep up with that and they do a much better job at it anyway.

try to break the job down into smaller tasks and then add up the time and add 20% on top of that. find an hourly rate to apply to that time to see if that number feels good to you. consider meeting time, project management, research, time to create initial concepts, revision time, image prep and color correcting, and then programming. this is just one way i look at a project. be sure to track your hours. this will serve you well when you have another similar job to do.

I send programming out too. It's all just gotten too complex to think I can do as good a job as someone that has been doing it for a long time. Plus, it ain't fun.

Personally, I love good Flash sites, but they are rare, and as e notes, TONS of time is spent on things like making buttons not reload the same thing once you've already clicked it (minor things in most cases, just a little pet peeve of mine).
I like some HTML sites, and for many things it's great, but rarely do I go 'wow', if ever. Of course, I go 'ugh' more than anything with bad flash sites.

much agreed trace. as always, it is the little things in life that make the difference.

This is all really helpful, sorry to keep asking questions but you guys seem to be a wealth of information. I definatly agree with you as far as bad or extranious flash sites are concerned and hours are definatly not the only thing that matters on a job. However (and I know a lot of this is based on your skils and abilities) but do you have any idea about how much a person just starting out could reasonably charge per hour? Since we dont do just web sites, but a lot of different graphic design work as well. I feel that i am fairly confident and skilled in these fields. but i just dont want to price something and have someone say "your kidding right?"

it really is tough to say and truly depends on a ton of factors. to give you a couple of examples. two jobs i just landed. one is for a non-profit creating documentary films on human rights struggles around the world. the first is on augusto pinochet, the former dictator of chile. i really wanted the job because of what they are doing and because my wife is from chile and her family had to leave the country because of pinochet. the client did not have much money but had some. for design and programming, i am charging them a bit less than 5k.

example two. a group of architects. medium sized office doing high end residential and commercial work. 15k for design and 1.5k for programming.

in both instances the programming is subbed out.

can you give a bit more info about the client? big? small? how big of site are doing for them? brochureware or information intensive?

is this your first site? you say you've done other graphic work. a lot or are you just getting your feet wet?

lastly, how bad do you want the job?

Thanks a lot e, that really helps. I was just asking in general really, but i do have a perspective client coming up. Its a laser cutting company located in canada. Small, but growing extremely quickly (more than doubled in size in the last 3 years). Based on what they've told me about what they want, what i feel capable of doing and the fact that they let slip that the other companies they were looking at are pricing around 15,000 and thats too much for them, i was thinking of coming to them with a ball park figure of around 8k-10k, In my head im kind of wondering if they think that will be too much (these dont seem like the people who really understand how valuable a good website is as they've relied on mostly other means of getting business) but at the same time i dont want to charge too little and hae them think we are just some kids (we are) doing this for fun (not entirely.) as of now I've completed three other sites that i can confidently point to and say - this is what we can do for you, which i have, and they seem very impressed, so I know they like what i do.

quixotica, i would go to them with the 10k figure. they said they couldn't afford 15k. they didn't say we can't afford 10k. remember everything in a contract is negotiable. whenever i send proposals out, i tell my potential clients that if they have any questions or concerns, do not hesitate to contact me. good luck.