its best to think of cad as a system - one you need to develop your own methods for moving between design, development and construction documentation. Contrary to popular myth, it may be more time intensive on the front end, but it's advantages become appearant as the project develops. Practice practice practice.
YES, I took construction document and AutoCad last quarter in school,but I was so worried about my grade that I didnt learn anything, they were going to fast and I didnt want to get behind.
But I was thinking to take it again at SMC, will come out cheaper and dont have to worry about my grade. I just have to learn it somehow
CAD is a necessary evil!!! It is best complimented by an iPod, access to the internet, coffee and a comfy chair. There is no way around it anymore. Become well versed in another program as well, so that you can atleast be known as the person in the office who can do that, so that you can have a change of interface every once in a while.
Sometimes I get lost when staring into the black abyss of an autoCAD background and I wonder.....is my soul in there anywhere? If it is, can I regen that bad boy?
i hear you!!!! I am fundamentally a smart person otherwise, but CAD absolutely baffles me.
It seems as though I turn into a bumbling idiot the moment I enter its dark abyss. I struggle all day everyday at the office. Can't believe I haven't yet been fired.
That's ridiculous, no one has to be chained to a crappy program.
I hate autoCad, it blows. There are much better programs out there. In fact, I have only worked at one firm where I was forced to use it, and after that, I have clearly and distinctly put on my resume that I will not use it, and I haven't had to since. It is 3 firms later and still happily AutoCad free!
It's pretty easy to avoid it in the working world if you care enough. For me it was totally counter-intuitive and it annoyed me that the thing was so poorly coded and so obviously set up essentially for engineers and not creative designers (go ahead, flame me). There are other programs that are very different from it that you can happily use as a tool. Don't stress if you don't remember it--better to forget the damn thing and hope the whole profession follows you.
: CAD is a fact of life in our world and I suggest you look for a way to become moderately proficient in its use ... there are many good training classes one can take ... do a google search to locate one in your community ... talk to some people locally who you trust to help you decide which class to take.
good luck ... you can do it if you put some effort into it.
no, im pretty sure you need chains, and blinders, possibly automated tasers for email breaks, and if you dont learn cad you probably will be unable to design, or live,
I dont know how much of a help this link is; I've been trying to self-teach myself. I don't know who far I can get with this tutor in order to be proficient.
I'm with myriam on this. I worked for a year in a practice who kept meaning to teach me autocad, but were always too busy somehow, not that I complained or pointed it out to them... instead I managed to spend most of my year out (UK work experience) making models and all the other things there are to architecture than doing cad work. Many other fully trained architects stared at me enviously for a year, perplexed, while they clicked their lives away into the abyss, he he he. Just ignore it, and don't apply for jobs that require it (they are out there) and you'll have a better life; leave the cad work to people who don't realise this.
I used Vectorworks for uni, its 1000x better for your soul.
I think its becoming clear that the next generation has to know and understand CAD of some type. As the previous generation gets older and moves on, the new firms will be dependant on it. Dont think of it as a burden but rather an amazing tool that can be your salvation, especially for young firms.
ACAD is not that bad regardless of what people say, each program has its own advantages.
Be patient.
I hated CAD when I first took a class on AutoCAD 2 (thats right - version 2). I dropped out of the class and decided to teach myself because the teacher was putting me to sleep.
I became a CAD Manager after only 4 months on my first job and was getting paid higher than most of the licensed architects in the firm I was working at.
I don't do much CAD (constuction documents) these days though - mostly CG work in my own company.
my ol boss don't know cad, and doesn't need it. but his job is to bring in work, not design (he does oversight, not design), and certainly not the cad work. he did do drafting when he was younger and knows as much as anyone about construction after 40 years in the business. Thing is I don' think you can get from here to there without learning CAD along the way.
i use autocad now, but have used vectorworks, powercadd, JW-Cad (japanese freeware), and Archicad in offices. also did a bit of the pencil and trace thang in the early days, before computers were common.
there are differences in how they all work, but the basics are pretty much the same, and i really gotta say that after moving a wall by hand 20 times with pencil and paper that the computer is a huge improvement. hang in there.
Main Entry: 1les·son
Pronunciation: 'le-s&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French leçon, from Late Latin lection-, lectio, from Latin, act of reading, from legere to read -- more at LEGEND
1 : a passage from sacred writings read in a service of worship
2 a : a piece of instruction b : a reading or exercise to be studied by a pupil c : a division of a course of instruction
3 a : something learned by study or experience <his years of travel had taught him valuable lessons> b : an instructive example <the lessons of history> c : REPRIMAND
tomorrow, i will provide you step 2 in mastering AutoCAD.
Sheri - Just get a book like Inside AutoCAD. It's a big advantage if you had a computer with AutoCAD at home. I used to teach AutoCAD and would tell my students that I'd teach them 90% of the commands they needed to know in the fist day. Actually you can learn 90% of the commands you'll be using 90% of the time in about an hour.
Back then when I was working on my trusty IBM 286, I'd type the command "Regen" and would go out, buy myself some coffee and come back just in time for my drawing to regenerate. I guess I really didn't have any choice but to be patient.
Yes, atheneum, I am currently using Vectorworks. I enjoy it much more--I feel like it is not working *against* me all the time, but rather it is a tool I can use easily and that works well as one component of my overall process. I also have used and enjoyed MicroStation, and ArchiCad honestly looks to be the best but I haven't had a chance to use it in an office yet.
Cad of some kind is certainly helpful and a necessity for the future of architecture--and yes, each program does have advantages and disadvantages. I honestly feel, however, that AutoCad is a huge hinderance to the design process and creates more trouble than smooth workflow. It is far too clunky and redundant to be an efficient tool and ends up bending the designer to its will instead of the other way around. Hard to explain but I really feel it is simply a trap for the profession.
By "cad" I mean computer aided drafting; "cad" is not a program but a general term meant to signify many different programs of similar type.
"AutoCAD" is one of these programs. I hate AutoCAD.
"Vectorworks" is another, which I like. My first paragraph refers to VectorWorks and a few other programs I've used, the second deals with AutoCAD specifically. By "Cad of some kind" being helpful and a necessity I mean that using the computer to draft, using one program or another, is helpful and a necessity for the future.
Sheri: Choose a program and learn it. How do you choose? One way would be to look at the jobs section here or your local paper and see what programs they require. As a student, your best bet is to go with what most potential employers are using.
Or, choose a program that is intuitive to you, and that you can use effectively as a tool for you. As a student, finding your own best process to create is most important.
If you're having trouble learning one, try learning another.
Knowing CAD well can be an even better way to get a new job, advance (or get a raise) in an existing job, and let's face it, our generation is depended upon to know our stuff in this ever-changing environment, where new platforms come out annually, and companies usually update every 2-3 years. Architectural Desktop (or AutoCad)...I have no problems with either, used Microstation for a while and hated it. Anyway, you need a REAL 2 or 4-day course from a company like Avatech Solutions to really get up with the latest release, if that is what your company is using. Unfortunately (as with about 50% of firms) the office I'm at is using either the 2004 or 2006 version and will not likely migrate to the 2007 version until 2009 or later. Our projects run at least a year long just in CAD. A few years ago (another employer) our boss updated every year or two. He made sure we had those Avatech courses. They are expensive though, but I found them well worth it. I look around me and probably 50% of the people are self-taught, which half of the time means they are half-assed with knowledge, or know all about AutoCad but squat about ADT, which is much more complex. Of course you don't need to use all of the features unless your office requires it. Buck up and get some good books by Paul Aubin, H. Edward Goldberg or others. If you're really in bad shape, most good community colleges offer night classes.
"I hate CAD and I just dont get it, isnt there anything out there that is easier to work with?"
Sure --- for a decade varuius projects here in denmark have tried to outline rules and rutines for a digital building process, just recently the conclution have been that hardly any of the small firms can maneage the huge demands and precice documenting, in fact the conclution draw a very pesimistic picture, --- no one seem to be willing to cooperate ,buisness work perfect without a dictating forced use of difficult digital accounting, and most are unwilling to change the code systems they spended years to get to know.
All what happened by spending many millions and millions and millions on these state financed projects are, that code books been revised and changed into different systems on paper on paper and paper. The suggested file formats have been develobed to these new standards, standards that is in fact the same paper with a slightly different grouping , in fact all accounting become many times the trouble ----- And no gurantie that the whole thing is not dropped next year.
On this background it is easier to understand the cry for a new architecture, for real innovation and new way's to put things together. --- I started back late 80' with a complete different aproach, I wanted the new tools that I know the computer would mean it worked and underway I reaslise many new way's to build better and cheaper, but this is not the direction you see in today's architect applications.
Make some of the same claims as I do, then maby the computers are finaly allowed to make things easier instead as today, more difficult.
step 2: paper space, model space, viewports, xrefs and blocks. these are the most confounding terms in the AutoCAD lexicon.
paper space
One of two primary spaces in which objects reside. Paper space is used for creating a finished layout for printing or plotting, as opposed to doing drafting or design work. You design your paper space viewports using a layout tab. Model space is used for creating the drawing. You design your model using the Model tab. See also model space and viewpoint. (PSPACE)
model space
One of the two primary spaces in which objects reside. Typically, a geometric model is placed in a three-dimensional coordinate space called model space. A final layout of specific views and annotations of this model is placed in paper space. See also paper space. (MSPACE)
viewport
A bounded area that displays some portion of the model space of a drawing. The TILEMODE system variable determines the type of viewport created. 1. When TILEMODE is off (0), viewports are objects that can be moved and resized on a layout. (MVIEW) 2. When TILEMODE is on (1), the entire drawing area is divided into nonoverlapping model viewports. See also TILEMODE, view, and viewpoint. (VPORTS)
external reference (xref)
A drawing file referenced by another drawing. (XREF)
block
A generic term for one or more objects that are combined to create a single object. Commonly used for either block definition or block reference. See also block definition and block reference. (BLOCK)
all other commands as j has pointed out are really self explanatory.
the most important thing to know about AutoCAD is, that you need to apply some kind of layer standard PRIOR to getting into drawing whatever you are going to draw.
x-refs are great, they keep you from drawing the same floor plan in several different scales, in several different locations. which IMHO is a fucking coordination nightmare, if you do otherwise.
if you can get the software get 2007, for one they - Autodesk - have changed the file saving format see below -
As we expected, AutoCAD 2007 brings a change to the DWG file format, setting back DWG compatibles yet again. Fortunately Autodesk listened to the demands of users, and included adequate backwards compatibility. AutoCAD 2007 can save as 2004, 2000, and even R14 drawings as well as dxf. In the options dialog you can set the default save format to any of these as well.
that coupled with a 3dViz like 3d workspace and you might save a little cash on buying a 3d program, unless of course you need Rhino, Catia, or Alias like functionality.
make sure any laptop you buy has at least a 128mb card, but better off with 512mb with all the cool graphics you will now be able to do.
large hard drive, lots of memory, and an external drive for you large file storage - you will always have need for more storage...
HATE CAD
I hate CAD and I just dont get it, isnt there anything out there that is easier to work with?
pencil and pen?
i hate cad so much. Can we please start a petition to get rid of work planes? If not, I will jump in the invisible CAD motor once again.
its best to think of cad as a system - one you need to develop your own methods for moving between design, development and construction documentation. Contrary to popular myth, it may be more time intensive on the front end, but it's advantages become appearant as the project develops. Practice practice practice.
Nobody fucking loves you. take this personally. have a good day.
What program are you using? AutoCAD?
YES, I took construction document and AutoCad last quarter in school,but I was so worried about my grade that I didnt learn anything, they were going to fast and I didnt want to get behind.
But I was thinking to take it again at SMC, will come out cheaper and dont have to worry about my grade. I just have to learn it somehow
its like math if i dont practice everyday I forget, same thing with Cad.
I even got Cad for dummies, didnt work.
you should probably just spend the next three years of your life chained to a mouse and keyboard, memorizing commands. i mean, it's your fate
It's a means to an end. . .
CAD is a necessary evil!!! It is best complimented by an iPod, access to the internet, coffee and a comfy chair. There is no way around it anymore. Become well versed in another program as well, so that you can atleast be known as the person in the office who can do that, so that you can have a change of interface every once in a while.
Sometimes I get lost when staring into the black abyss of an autoCAD background and I wonder.....is my soul in there anywhere? If it is, can I regen that bad boy?
i hear you!!!! I am fundamentally a smart person otherwise, but CAD absolutely baffles me.
It seems as though I turn into a bumbling idiot the moment I enter its dark abyss. I struggle all day everyday at the office. Can't believe I haven't yet been fired.
That's ridiculous, no one has to be chained to a crappy program.
I hate autoCad, it blows. There are much better programs out there. In fact, I have only worked at one firm where I was forced to use it, and after that, I have clearly and distinctly put on my resume that I will not use it, and I haven't had to since. It is 3 firms later and still happily AutoCad free!
It's pretty easy to avoid it in the working world if you care enough. For me it was totally counter-intuitive and it annoyed me that the thing was so poorly coded and so obviously set up essentially for engineers and not creative designers (go ahead, flame me). There are other programs that are very different from it that you can happily use as a tool. Don't stress if you don't remember it--better to forget the damn thing and hope the whole profession follows you.
beautifully put myriam.
do you use vectorworks?
: CAD is a fact of life in our world and I suggest you look for a way to become moderately proficient in its use ... there are many good training classes one can take ... do a google search to locate one in your community ... talk to some people locally who you trust to help you decide which class to take.
good luck ... you can do it if you put some effort into it.
no, im pretty sure you need chains, and blinders, possibly automated tasers for email breaks, and if you dont learn cad you probably will be unable to design, or live,
I dont know how much of a help this link is; I've been trying to self-teach myself. I don't know who far I can get with this tutor in order to be proficient.
?
I'm with myriam on this. I worked for a year in a practice who kept meaning to teach me autocad, but were always too busy somehow, not that I complained or pointed it out to them... instead I managed to spend most of my year out (UK work experience) making models and all the other things there are to architecture than doing cad work. Many other fully trained architects stared at me enviously for a year, perplexed, while they clicked their lives away into the abyss, he he he. Just ignore it, and don't apply for jobs that require it (they are out there) and you'll have a better life; leave the cad work to people who don't realise this.
I used Vectorworks for uni, its 1000x better for your soul.
quit yer bitchin and make sure you draw on the right layers, i don't want to fix any more of yer drawings.....
just kidding btw.
I think its becoming clear that the next generation has to know and understand CAD of some type. As the previous generation gets older and moves on, the new firms will be dependant on it. Dont think of it as a burden but rather an amazing tool that can be your salvation, especially for young firms.
ACAD is not that bad regardless of what people say, each program has its own advantages.
Be patient.
I hated CAD when I first took a class on AutoCAD 2 (thats right - version 2). I dropped out of the class and decided to teach myself because the teacher was putting me to sleep.
I became a CAD Manager after only 4 months on my first job and was getting paid higher than most of the licensed architects in the firm I was working at.
I don't do much CAD (constuction documents) these days though - mostly CG work in my own company.
my ol boss don't know cad, and doesn't need it. but his job is to bring in work, not design (he does oversight, not design), and certainly not the cad work. he did do drafting when he was younger and knows as much as anyone about construction after 40 years in the business. Thing is I don' think you can get from here to there without learning CAD along the way.
i use autocad now, but have used vectorworks, powercadd, JW-Cad (japanese freeware), and Archicad in offices. also did a bit of the pencil and trace thang in the early days, before computers were common.
there are differences in how they all work, but the basics are pretty much the same, and i really gotta say that after moving a wall by hand 20 times with pencil and paper that the computer is a huge improvement. hang in there.
How did you teach yourself?
i'll give you a step by step day by day lesson, if you like.
step 1: quit making autocad out as something more than it is. it is essentially drawing with a pen/pencil/crayon, but with the computer.
step 2 tomorrow. be sure to be on time as the lesson will begin promptly at 1:35 PM EDT - or is it EST??
I dont get it, lesson???
good, it's important to ask questions.
Main Entry: 1les·son
Pronunciation: 'le-s&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French leçon, from Late Latin lection-, lectio, from Latin, act of reading, from legere to read -- more at LEGEND
1 : a passage from sacred writings read in a service of worship
2 a : a piece of instruction b : a reading or exercise to be studied by a pupil c : a division of a course of instruction
3 a : something learned by study or experience <his years of travel had taught him valuable lessons> b : an instructive example <the lessons of history> c : REPRIMAND
tomorrow, i will provide you step 2 in mastering AutoCAD.
beta - I'd charge if I were you.
diabase
Don’t hate, appreciate :P
I dont think beta is being serious
Sheri - post more pictures of yourself, please!!
Hey, I'm not hating.
Judging from your previous posts, re: the hotel etc, you have got a lot of work to do... I have been in a very similar position to you - I know...
Sheri - Just get a book like Inside AutoCAD. It's a big advantage if you had a computer with AutoCAD at home. I used to teach AutoCAD and would tell my students that I'd teach them 90% of the commands they needed to know in the fist day. Actually you can learn 90% of the commands you'll be using 90% of the time in about an hour.
Back then when I was working on my trusty IBM 286, I'd type the command "Regen" and would go out, buy myself some coffee and come back just in time for my drawing to regenerate. I guess I really didn't have any choice but to be patient.
where do I get AutoCad from? and does it matter if it's 2002 or 06
Yes, atheneum, I am currently using Vectorworks. I enjoy it much more--I feel like it is not working *against* me all the time, but rather it is a tool I can use easily and that works well as one component of my overall process. I also have used and enjoyed MicroStation, and ArchiCad honestly looks to be the best but I haven't had a chance to use it in an office yet.
Cad of some kind is certainly helpful and a necessity for the future of architecture--and yes, each program does have advantages and disadvantages. I honestly feel, however, that AutoCad is a huge hinderance to the design process and creates more trouble than smooth workflow. It is far too clunky and redundant to be an efficient tool and ends up bending the designer to its will instead of the other way around. Hard to explain but I really feel it is simply a trap for the profession.
I'm getting confuse, Cad or vector?
By "cad" I mean computer aided drafting; "cad" is not a program but a general term meant to signify many different programs of similar type.
"AutoCAD" is one of these programs. I hate AutoCAD.
"Vectorworks" is another, which I like. My first paragraph refers to VectorWorks and a few other programs I've used, the second deals with AutoCAD specifically. By "Cad of some kind" being helpful and a necessity I mean that using the computer to draft, using one program or another, is helpful and a necessity for the future.
Sheri: Choose a program and learn it. How do you choose? One way would be to look at the jobs section here or your local paper and see what programs they require. As a student, your best bet is to go with what most potential employers are using.
Or, choose a program that is intuitive to you, and that you can use effectively as a tool for you. As a student, finding your own best process to create is most important.
If you're having trouble learning one, try learning another.
Architectural Desktop is supposedly more user-friendlier than AutoCAD
its is ... but i find it very childish ..
maybe it's just me ..
besides ... ADT is usefull just for 3D .. and maybe schedules ..
else its the same as Autocad
don't forget step 2 at 1:30 PM EDT today...
i'd charge, but hey i like helping those that are need...
Welcome to Hell ,darling
This is just the beginning....After AUTOCAD 666 ,There's also Adobe photoshop,Coreldraw,3DMaxx,Catia
Sketch-Up,Rhino etc etc etc .
Just wait till they get their paws on ye !
hey i just reached 500 + posts ! ! ! ! ! !
Thank you..Thank You ThankYou..I love you all ..thank you..!
Knowing CAD well can be an even better way to get a new job, advance (or get a raise) in an existing job, and let's face it, our generation is depended upon to know our stuff in this ever-changing environment, where new platforms come out annually, and companies usually update every 2-3 years. Architectural Desktop (or AutoCad)...I have no problems with either, used Microstation for a while and hated it. Anyway, you need a REAL 2 or 4-day course from a company like Avatech Solutions to really get up with the latest release, if that is what your company is using. Unfortunately (as with about 50% of firms) the office I'm at is using either the 2004 or 2006 version and will not likely migrate to the 2007 version until 2009 or later. Our projects run at least a year long just in CAD. A few years ago (another employer) our boss updated every year or two. He made sure we had those Avatech courses. They are expensive though, but I found them well worth it. I look around me and probably 50% of the people are self-taught, which half of the time means they are half-assed with knowledge, or know all about AutoCad but squat about ADT, which is much more complex. Of course you don't need to use all of the features unless your office requires it. Buck up and get some good books by Paul Aubin, H. Edward Goldberg or others. If you're really in bad shape, most good community colleges offer night classes.
"I hate CAD and I just dont get it, isnt there anything out there that is easier to work with?"
Sure --- for a decade varuius projects here in denmark have tried to outline rules and rutines for a digital building process, just recently the conclution have been that hardly any of the small firms can maneage the huge demands and precice documenting, in fact the conclution draw a very pesimistic picture, --- no one seem to be willing to cooperate ,buisness work perfect without a dictating forced use of difficult digital accounting, and most are unwilling to change the code systems they spended years to get to know.
All what happened by spending many millions and millions and millions on these state financed projects are, that code books been revised and changed into different systems on paper on paper and paper. The suggested file formats have been develobed to these new standards, standards that is in fact the same paper with a slightly different grouping , in fact all accounting become many times the trouble ----- And no gurantie that the whole thing is not dropped next year.
On this background it is easier to understand the cry for a new architecture, for real innovation and new way's to put things together. --- I started back late 80' with a complete different aproach, I wanted the new tools that I know the computer would mean it worked and underway I reaslise many new way's to build better and cheaper, but this is not the direction you see in today's architect applications.
Make some of the same claims as I do, then maby the computers are finaly allowed to make things easier instead as today, more difficult.
Wow - Thanks Sheri...that one should be filed in the SEXY GRAPHICS thread!
i am late sorry, instructors perogative.
step 2: paper space, model space, viewports, xrefs and blocks. these are the most confounding terms in the AutoCAD lexicon.
paper space
One of two primary spaces in which objects reside. Paper space is used for creating a finished layout for printing or plotting, as opposed to doing drafting or design work. You design your paper space viewports using a layout tab. Model space is used for creating the drawing. You design your model using the Model tab. See also model space and viewpoint. (PSPACE)
model space
One of the two primary spaces in which objects reside. Typically, a geometric model is placed in a three-dimensional coordinate space called model space. A final layout of specific views and annotations of this model is placed in paper space. See also paper space. (MSPACE)
viewport
A bounded area that displays some portion of the model space of a drawing. The TILEMODE system variable determines the type of viewport created. 1. When TILEMODE is off (0), viewports are objects that can be moved and resized on a layout. (MVIEW) 2. When TILEMODE is on (1), the entire drawing area is divided into nonoverlapping model viewports. See also TILEMODE, view, and viewpoint. (VPORTS)
external reference (xref)
A drawing file referenced by another drawing. (XREF)
block
A generic term for one or more objects that are combined to create a single object. Commonly used for either block definition or block reference. See also block definition and block reference. (BLOCK)
all other commands as j has pointed out are really self explanatory.
the most important thing to know about AutoCAD is, that you need to apply some kind of layer standard PRIOR to getting into drawing whatever you are going to draw.
x-refs are great, they keep you from drawing the same floor plan in several different scales, in several different locations. which IMHO is a fucking coordination nightmare, if you do otherwise.
oh, and before i forget, step 3 starts promptly at 1:30 PM tomorrow, don't be late or if you will be late, bring me an apple...
Beta- You were being serious :), so where and which acad should I get? I want to get a laptop as well, any suggestions?
if you can get the software get 2007, for one they - Autodesk - have changed the file saving format see below -
As we expected, AutoCAD 2007 brings a change to the DWG file format, setting back DWG compatibles yet again. Fortunately Autodesk listened to the demands of users, and included adequate backwards compatibility. AutoCAD 2007 can save as 2004, 2000, and even R14 drawings as well as dxf. In the options dialog you can set the default save format to any of these as well.
that coupled with a 3dViz like 3d workspace and you might save a little cash on buying a 3d program, unless of course you need Rhino, Catia, or Alias like functionality.
make sure any laptop you buy has at least a 128mb card, but better off with 512mb with all the cool graphics you will now be able to do.
large hard drive, lots of memory, and an external drive for you large file storage - you will always have need for more storage...
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