Where to start?

By quoting my former Assistant Dean Lois Clark [KU]:

You don't owe those people anything.

On the other hand, the money factor in your decision is confusing. How about we assume the offers are equal?

You say the late to the table firm was your first choice. Why wouldn't you go there? A sense of commitment to a firm where you shook some guy's hand? Call him, apologize, and move on to your original first choice.

I'm 42. I've been a party to this over and over. A firm I was with 8 years ago recruited a talented guy, our partners all celebrated and he never showed up. [He did call to say why he reconsidered.] We lived.

When I moved to Seattle, I had a hard choice between two HUGE firms with national reputations. One was late to the table AND 15% low. I went to the early offer with the money. I worked there 12 days. Then I QUIT and went to the late, low offer. It took me 2-1/2 years just to work up to the salary I left. I'm still there and I love it.

I interviewed at least 2 dozen people last year. If someone accepts a job and THEN wants to renegotiate, frankly, you're getting the salary we shook on. [A crappy way to do business however.] Show up for what we agreed on or plow another field. But: if someone comes in after accepting an offer and says their first choice finally came through, I don't want them in my firm bas a miserable hostage to an unrealized dream. See ya. No hard feelings.

Finally: Firm time is glacial [meaning things take TIME] compared to "I need a job" time where you're head will explode because they didn't get back to you in a week. If you don't graduate until May, why were you shaking hands and accepting offers already? That's your sole screw up screw up in this scenario.

You thought the prom would start and you wouldn't have a date. So go apologize to the girl you AREN'T taking to the dance and get on with your life based on doing what you want.

If the firm you cut and run on doesn't like you as a result, you likely won't be dancing with them anyway. If you're enough of a diplomat to get them to understand your dilemma as you turn them down, you never know, you may someday end up working there if you don't burn a bridge. Oh, and there's another $5,000. I really hope that isn't your decision maker, because it really never should be about the money.

Call me in 20 years and let me know then how you think it played out.

You don't owe them anything. And you're allowed to screw up.

And don't listen to Old Fogey. That's 90 days that is a waste of time for EVERYONE.

***UPDATE***

So, the principal finally called me back. I told him my situation.

His response

"I appreciate your honestly. May I ask the name of the firm who made you that offer?. Well, this has taken me a bit off guard, but I understand your situation. I knew from our interview that you were a sincere, honest guy. Let me do this. Give me a day, and I'll crunch through the numbers. As a corporate firm, we have ranges of salaries, but let me go through that again. I dont know if I can't meet their offer, but I can see if I can sweeten the pot for you. I know you will end up here, and be very happy. Focus on your school work, and don't worry about this situation. We'll make it happen, and you'll end up here and be happy. I'll call you tomorrow."

That has sure taken off the relief. I re-assured him over and over that this was an unsolicited offer from a firm in which I had previously interviewed, and it was way above my range that I had expected. However, I was very happy with my choice, and I do want to honor my commitment. I did tell him the name of the firm, and he knew who it was. My guess? He'll meet me halfway in between. I will be very very happy with that. In the end, its about where I see myself in 2 or 5 or even 10 years. I feel as though I can grow with this firm, and that was my gut instinct. I will end up taking less money, but I know I will have made the right decision both with my acceptance and with this phone call. I'll fill you all in as to the conversation tomorrow.

Thanks again.

all sounds good dmc.

good (wo)man

someone above gave advice about "comparing apples to apples" ... which mostly addresssed benefits. you also need to be very careful about whether you receive paid overtime or not ... if the "high" firm is offering a salary and the "low" firm is offering paid overtime, $5,000 is practically no difference at all.

get both offers in writing, compare the full benefits package for each, find out how much overtime is normal or expected at each firm, calculate what the overtime differential would be, ... that analysis will give you your answer regarding which is the better economic offer.

however, i think it important to reflect on what it means to be a "professional" ... somewhere in that idea there is an element that relates to standing behind what you say ... credibility is something that comes from doing the right thing, even when it costs you money.

don't forget that when you accepted the first offer, the "low" firm probably stopped recruiting or turned away other candidates who they were also considering for this job. don't think for a moment that your about face won't cause them difficulty or inconvenience ... it probably will be a major pain for them and it is likely to make them very angry ... this is not something they will easily forget ... this has happened to me 3-4 times in the last 8-9 years ... i still get steamed when i bump into these people around town ... i would never consider bringing any of them to our firm

the world of design professionals is very, very small ... over the course of a 30-40 year career, you will be absolutely amazed how often you come across people you first met during the first 1-2 years of your post-graduation career

all i can say is good for you dmc. and if a firm/recruiter is petty enough to begrudge you your own choices, you'll still live. i can't believe people would really be steamed 10 years after an entry-level person had the chance to get ahead a little and made apologies. there are so many new wannabee architects out there, that if the firm doesn't have a pretty good pool to draw on and can replace you easily, maybe that says something too i dunno? anyway, you want to work where people have good attitudes and respect your right to live your own life and make your own choices without laying a guilt trip on and being vindictive. if they have a nasty attitude about this, i would be glad i didn't end up there. it sounds like this employer is great so good luck.

thanks hyperbolical. my gut instinct knew that guy was a class act. he's one of the head principles of over 200 people throughout the country. you don't get into that position unless you know how to deal with people, and know how to recognize integrity. i'm pretty good at judging the character of an individual, and the realistic parameters they set forth. he understood my situation, and knows my potential, thats for sure. i'm very happy about this. it was definetly a good lesson.

there. told you so.

whoa ... hyperbolical paraboloid ... lighten up, dude ... you're assuming facts that aren't in evidence

my comments were NOT about begrudging somebody their own choices ... i never want somebody here who wants to be somewhere else ... you miss my point altogether.

at our firm, we invest huge amounts of time locating candidates, reviewing their credentials, scheduling interviews and spending time getting to know the people we like ... we provide a huge amount of information about our firm and our processes and our culture ... we take the hiring process very seriously and we don't issue offers until we believe there is a good mutual fit.

my complaint is with candidates who, after going through all of that, receive a comprehensive written offer from us and formally accept the offer --- and then bail out a week or so later 'cause a friend introduced them to another firm and they got an offer there for a paltry few additional dollars ... since we were depending on their arrival on a certain date, their behavior was very disruptive to our ability to serve our clients and it placed a great burden on our other employees ... we scrambled to find a replacement, which was not hard, but it always takes time ... usually 3-4 weeks at a minimum, longer if you're really picky.

with one exception, there never was an apology offered and there was no effort on the candidates' part to say -- as did dmc8150 -- "hey look, this has come up and I was wondering if we could talk about it a little" ... if that had happened, I would have responded as did dmc8150's prospective employer.

hiring is a give-and-take process; i'm accustomed to that. i'm not accustomed to unrestrained self-centeredness and i'm not accustomed to people who do not keep their word. this is a relationship business and integrity and credibility are, or should be, the foundation of all good realtionships.

i don't apologize for still being steamed years later ... i've watched the careers of these people develop and they still display the same lack of integrity today they displayed back then. my mistake was ever thinking they were a good fit at our firm in the first place.

the hiring process is an imperfect process and "character" is not always something people wear on the outside ... it's not something one easily identifies, even during 2-3 interviews ... it is something that one discovers through behavior over time. in retrospect, these people probably did me a favor, but it still pissed me off.

dmc8150 acted with integrity ... i congratulate him on the way he handled this situation

i second that, i have learned some lessons from this myself, that is true, and it's got me to see the employer's side of hiring/firing/quitting for the first time

Whelp, he did what I thought...

He came up 2k.

He said he's happy to have me onboard, and the PM's are already chompin at the bit to get at me.

I accepted, I'm excited, and I'm good to go.

The main reason that I accepted a position 3k less is that I feel like I have more of an opportunity to advance with this firm than the higher offer from the other firm. I also honored my word, and that, to both him and I, is very meaningful in establishing a relationship. Hopefully down the line when (or if) I'm in a position to be promoted, he will take this into consideration.

Moral of the story:
Patience on accepting an offer.
When in doubt, always be sincere, and honest, as that will get you far in life.

Thank you all for your advice.

glad it worked out for you...the other lesson to take from this story is that life is negotiable...pretty much all the time if you are willing to speak up and work with people.

dmc8150 -- you handled this well.

Congratulations, and keep on learning.

congrats dmc. best of luck.

great dmc, exactly what I thought would happen.

comb i did not direct my comments at you personally--but basically all you described in your post was the normal interviewing and hiring process, which would have occurred anyway whether or not the candidate accepted the offer and whether or not you offered them a job. the only difference was that there was a week or so where you 'thought' they were going to work for you and you thought you had your lineup settled. That is all. the investment in time etc would have been the same had they turned you down at the time of your offer. I stand by my comments that a change of heart within a timeframe of a week or two is par for the course in the business world. sure it leads to some temporary disappointment and a 'slight' inconvenience but that is basically it. I think it overdramatizes the amount of work you put in and smears the integrity of the individual to make this out to be anything more than a blip on the screen.