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God's will as urban planning?

Elimelech

If Domino's Pizza founder Thomas S. Monaghan has his way, a new town being built in Florida will be governed according to strict Roman Catholic principles, with no place to get an abortion, pornography or birth control.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/03/02/catholic.town.ap/index.html

Wow this country gets crazier by the day. Althoguh in all reality is it any different than that Mormon-themepark: Utah?

 
Mar 2, 06 6:26 pm
Elimelech
Mar 2, 06 6:28 pm  · 
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Elimelech
http://www.avemaria.com/

Mar 2, 06 6:30 pm  · 
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Elimelech

apparently god is partial to neo-colonial spanish buildings.

Mar 2, 06 6:36 pm  · 
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WonderK

oh my god i just read about this. perhaps they will have drive-thru molestation stations for the priests as well.

ouch that was harsh. seriously though, whenever nutcase religious right-winger men try to tell women what they can and can't do with their birth control pills, I get really, really upset.

Mar 2, 06 6:46 pm  · 
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-a place only rich people can afford to live stirred together with "christian principles" in a state with a bush as governor.

-a builder/developer (pulte homes) on board at the outset, shrouding the development of a new 'community' on greenfields and wetlands in forms developed by new urbanists to look like an idealized spanish township that never was - and claiming an environmental agenda.

-civil liberties taken away: no sex, drugs, rocknroll, or non-christians. (oops, they didn't say that last one? did they?)

what's not to like?

Mar 2, 06 6:49 pm  · 
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newstreamlinedmodel

better install lightening rods in case the big guy turns out to be a modernist after all.

Mar 2, 06 6:55 pm  · 
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upside

yeah, what happens if it gets hit by a hurricane? would it still be an act of god?

actualy, with the green roofs, it kinda reminded me of paintings of the forbidden city from the air.

Mar 2, 06 8:15 pm  · 
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strlt_typ

it just seems superficial...marketing religion, i'd be pissed if i was a roman catholic.
the developers have assigned irrelevant names for buildings like asissi, siena, firenze, etc...using the allure of historic italian imagery as a selling point...and that big ass scultputre of jesus nailed to a cross on the city center's plaza is just negative vibes for me...the creepy thing for me is imagining all the sex, drug-use, rock n' roll that's going to be happening "underground"...

Mar 2, 06 8:15 pm  · 
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sunburntkamel

so, uh....
how bout that NEVER EATING AT DOMINO'S AGAIN

Mar 2, 06 9:53 pm  · 
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Urbanist

Note the apparent diversity of the people featured in the images on their website. Not. :P Are Latino-American Catholics not welcome?

Mar 2, 06 10:04 pm  · 
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vado retro

you could always not live there.

Mar 2, 06 10:54 pm  · 
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newstreamlinedmodel

The more I think about it the more I like it. Especially the whole wop theme-park thing.

Will the town divide in to rival families who built towers and villas to display their wealth? Will there be star crossed lovers?

Will there be a generation of frustrated futurists to race around the streets in their hot-rods and write manifestos against suburban malaise?

Will a new fascist movement force feed castor oil to those who don’t mow their lawns often enough?

Will heroic partisans hide out in the green belt and mount a resistance? Perhaps history will become so compressed that this same pizza guy will end up hanging by his heels in the end after all.

The only way to know is to build it.

Mar 2, 06 11:22 pm  · 
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newstreamlinedmodel

The more I think about it the more I like it. Especially the whole wop theme-park thing.

Will the town divide in to rival families who built towers and villas to display their wealth? Will there be star crossed lovers?

Will there be a generation of frustrated futurists to race around the streets in their hot-rods and write manifestos against suburban malaise?

Will a new fascist movement force feed castor oil to those who don’t mow their lawns often enough?

Will heroic partisans hide out in the green belt and mount a resistance? Perhaps history will become so compressed that this same pizza guy will end up hanging by his heels in the end after all.

The only way to know is to build it.

Mar 2, 06 11:23 pm  · 
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snooker

These guys tried the same thing a few years ago, and now they no longer exist.

http://www.hancockshakervillage.org/

Mar 3, 06 8:29 am  · 
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Nevermore

this is a joke right ?


what's next ?..compulsory baptism for non-xtians before you order a domino's. ? ?

Mar 3, 06 8:57 am  · 
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Living in Gin

In fairness to Domino's, Monaghan sold his stake in the company to fund this little endeavor, and (IIRC) Domino's no longer has any official ties to him.

Their pizza still sucks, though.

Mar 3, 06 9:02 am  · 
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el jeffe
Christian Exodus

moving into South Carloina.

Mar 3, 06 9:35 am  · 
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el jeffe

yikes, this book cover of theirs is really frightening...

Mar 3, 06 9:39 am  · 
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Guffman

So why Naples? Well, a few years back Monaghan sought to built the law school (Santa Maria) on his property in Ann Arbor. Part of the program included a 400? ft tall crucifix near the intersection of 2 major interstates. If you listen closely, you can still hear the residents of Ann Arbor's reaction when the proposal went public.

In all seriousness, regardless of how one might feel about the nature of his law school, there's a strong tradition of the Church as a developer for successful urbanism. Pienza, remains one of the best urban ensembles the West ever produced. Shame that Pulte's involved - but from what I understand the McMansion has become the 'Naples vernacular'.

Mar 3, 06 10:02 am  · 
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ichweiB

Yes, heaven forbid a place with "Christian Principles" like loving your neighbor as yourself or helping the poor and hungry.

Mar 3, 06 10:14 am  · 
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they will love their neighbors > they'll have so much in common. those poor and hungry won't be allowed in town (bad element/influence), so they won't bother anyone.

Mar 3, 06 10:24 am  · 
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"I'm now wondering if all the built environment of our planet is "progressing" towards becoming a global (virtual) theme park..."

Mar 3, 06 10:30 am  · 
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el jeffe

Stephen, Steven. Steven, Stephen.

Mar 3, 06 10:32 am  · 
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chupacabra

are you in prison if you made it yourself, for yourself, and the walls are transparent to you?

Huxley would have loved to see this.

Mar 3, 06 10:43 am  · 
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GtHtAu.

Disgustingly cynical. Assuming alot of us are/were architecture students:

We went through school being taught that graphic experiments, photoshop, diagrams of anything from farm animals to movie clips and various and sundry (often times) ridiculous approaches to design were someday going to produce Architecture that will solve the worlds problems. THIS is a leap of faith of the utmost degree.

Thinking that a community openly based on the tenants of christianity would be a good thing IS NOT. It is a good idea. If the man can afford it, and there is a market of people who want to live there then more power to him.

The molestation comment was callous and prejudiced.

WonderK, describe any or all of your affiliations and I will swamp you with hideous stereotypes that (according to your lack of logic) would describe you.

PS I'm not Catholic, so you don't get to rationalize your stupidity by writing me off as a zealot.

Mar 3, 06 11:05 am  · 
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tenets...though i like the use of 'tenants'. freudian?

the problem i see is that this is an extension of white flight. people taking themselves to an exclusive community (the walk) and claiming moral/ethical reasons (the talk). an extension of white flight, but with better marketing?

Mar 3, 06 11:20 am  · 
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Elimelech

What I find crazy is that "christians" forget about christ:

-What if Christ would have taken his followers and set up a village on a hill? He would not have given life to a sinner like Lazarus, he would not have stopped the stoning of the prostitute, and in general he would not have preached his message of love and compassion to the world.

Christians forget that jesus went to the places where he was needed. it is easy to live a "godly" life in a refuge, can you walk the talk in the french quarter? And Im talking about showing love and compassion for people that may need it, not protests and stupidity.

Today's christians are living in the pre-Christ world, full of laws and hate, not love and compassion.

It isn't a problem only of christianity, all religions have a hard time balancing accepting life with its imperfections and hating it.

Mar 3, 06 11:37 am  · 
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"God's Will as urban planning?" asked the Roman Senators when they heard of Constantine's intention to found Constantinople as Christian Capital of the Roman Empire.

At least Constantine already had good architectural talent in his blood. With a mother like Helena, and even a mother-in-law like Eutropia, he at least knew what he was doing.

Just for fun, look up the city of "Eutropia" in Calvino's Invisible Cities.

Mar 3, 06 12:05 pm  · 
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AP

word.

Mar 3, 06 12:09 pm  · 
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AP

("word" intended for melquiades)

Mar 3, 06 12:10 pm  · 
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i like the comparison with constantinople - and the contrast.

constantinople: preexisting/real urbanism/inclusive/socioeconomically and culturally varied

ave maria: new constr on wetlands/new urbanism/exclusive/socioeconomically and culturally homogeneous

constantinople: christian by decree of emperor

ave maria: pseudo-christian in a democratic country which supposedly honors freedom of religion

Mar 3, 06 12:25 pm  · 
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Careful on the pre-existing part. Constantine's Constantinople was very much a newly constructed city, founded 324 and dedicated 330. Yes there was Byzantium there first (which it would be interesting to know the history and urban fabric of), but Constantine did build a whole new city over (or beside?) Byzantium.

I'd also do a lot more research before making claims about Constantine's Constantinople being "inclusive/socioeconomically and culturally varied." My own curiousity asks just how much Latin was excluded in the new Greek capital.

Mar 3, 06 1:05 pm  · 
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I'd guess it's fairly certain that any and all paganism was excluded from Constantine's Constantinople.

It's on record that, coinciding with the time Constantinople was being built, Constantine began outlawing certain pagan sects/cults, especially those where the priesthoods engaged in homosexual practices. (--one of my favorite present Roman Catholic, if not also Greek Catholic, ironies.)

Mar 3, 06 2:31 pm  · 
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WonderK

galford, what's with the hateful response? I said myself I was being harsh. By your post count I can see that you have no idea who I am and as such, that type of response is completely uncalled for.

For the record, and not that it's any of your business anyway, I am a (recovering) Catholic and one of the reasons I can't bring myself to church anymore is because of its treatment of the molestation cases that actually did occur in this country. Priests that were accused of these things ran churches that I visited. This is not a stereotype. It's called REALITY. I cannot, in good faith, support a church that would allow that to happen to their children. Not to mention the continuing discrimination they have against women.

Furthermore, I submit that what is missing in this so-called community is any kind of grasp on the law of the land. The guy can build whatever he wants, or doesn't want, but if he thinks he can run the goverment according to a religion, or prevent people of other faiths from moving in, then obviously he is wasting his money.

Mar 3, 06 3:45 pm  · 
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liberty bell

Well-stated melquiades.

Mar 3, 06 4:26 pm  · 
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WonderK, regarding "the continuing discrimination they have against women," you might be interested in Church Fathers, Independent Virgins by Joyce E. Salisbury, which shows how and when a lot of the discrimination started. Ironically, in its early centuries, Christianity very much empowered women; it may well have been one of the first human "institutions" where women had a chance to make a choice about their lives. Granted, their choice was to remain virgins, as opposed to being told who they had to marry, but a choice women never even had before, nonetheless. Plus, as usual I suppose, the more wealth a Christian woman had, the more choices she could make for herself. This female freedom even got the pagan Roman's upset, and thus even fueled the Great Persecution of the early 4th century.

In Church Fathers, Independent Virgins we see the lives and choices of some notable Christian women, and we see how some notable Church fathers, in their sermons, letters and writings, very much did not like the independence of these women, and thus laid out a whole new restrictive life for Christian woman.

Personally, I see the women as having made the far better choices. Melania the Younger and her grandmother Melania the Older are two of my favorites, besides Helena and Eutropia, of course. [I even wonder whether Helena and Eutropia were much more than very good friends.]

Mar 3, 06 4:29 pm  · 
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snooker

Isn't this the same guy who bought everything Wright a few years ago?

Mar 3, 06 4:59 pm  · 
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Urbanist

More images of this masterpiece of design:

http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2006/03/02/mn_catholic_town_flnap105.jpg

Mar 3, 06 7:06 pm  · 
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timpdx

What is it with Florida attracting all of this modern-day utopian thinking? Disney's Celebration, Seaside, all-gay retirement communities, and so on?

Mar 3, 06 7:24 pm  · 
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WonderK

timpdx, I think because it's warm and people want to go there. I guess they forget about that 6 month long hurricane season....

Mar 3, 06 11:17 pm  · 
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trace™

and the humidity


they have some absurd number like 1000 people a day moving to Fl. It's changing, though, with the higher prices of good real estate and people (I am guessing) realizing that you have to live in doors with AC.

NU and others are taking advantage of all the older folks - mostly conservative, probably an easy sell to say 'here's somewhere with values like the old days'. Just a guess.
That, and they are the only ones stepping up to the plate.

Mar 4, 06 9:48 am  · 
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vado retro

actually i remember posting a similar idea on a long forgotten thread. i proposed that dnc pay voting democrats a years salary( a small salary) to move to one of those reddish/blue states, get registered and vote to swing a red state to a blue state. they don't push the envelope though do they lb???

Mar 4, 06 1:00 pm  · 
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i started to like utopias again. lets see them all.
thinking this whole thing is one big utopia anyway.

to quondam;
interesting..made me think of the third version, istanbul. 'won' in 1453 by turks, 40 years later columbus reached america. eventually, the opulance and decedance were back during the 'tulip period' of ottomans. very interesting period when the whole city probably partied for years spending the taxes from new territories and writing poetry on empire grants..
rome to me is always orange, istanbul is more like olive green, i think byzantium was white and small and constatinople was black and gold.

i looked for a place in this picture melquiades posted. that place is shits. i couldn't see any spot where i would want to work and live. everything look so final and it smelled like a trap.


i am just fuckn' talking about this and that loosely connected. i feel like i am in a party.

Mar 4, 06 6:44 pm  · 
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e909

communes, utopias
http://www.google.com/search?q=~communes+%7C+~utopias+~history

Mar 5, 06 6:02 am  · 
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Orhan, you might be interested in:
www.museumpeace.com/11/1098.htm
www.museumpeace.com/11/1099.htm

Mar 5, 06 12:03 pm  · 
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snooker

Thoughts on this as urban planning...NOT MY FRIEND... A DEVELOPER WITH A VISION....YES! IT IS CALLED MONEY IN THE BANK!

Mar 5, 06 4:09 pm  · 
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quondam, nice angle to look at turks, from the sea. which makes things further fascinating.
turks, riding horses and making yurts in central asia, moved westward, accept a judaic religion, capture constantinople, build on to what was there on equally masterful way, become urban, land farming, sea battling empire in relatively short ten centuries between 7th and 17th.
i think this show is about that.

thanks for the well done and streamlined portuguese-ottoman parallel and chronology.

actually i enjoyed reading lord kinross' the ottoman centuries a while back.
again loosely related to this thread.

Mar 5, 06 4:38 pm  · 
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Urbanist

I wanted to clarify what I said earlier about tolerance and communities such as this. My issues with this project are as follows:--

1. the church provides an outlet for reflection:-- it's called a vocation. If it's monastic reflection they want, they should join up. Lay orders do not withdraw from the earthly world, and neither should individual parisioners. They live with the world and all of its ills, and, if they're religious, do good works to make it a better place. Withdrawing into a community of likeminded people who just happen to (according to their advertising imagery) all look alike, from similarly socioeconomically and ethnically privileged backgrounds, is fundamentally anti-church.

2. Since when is cheap simulacra neo-traditionalism and neo-classicism equated with a Christian community? Christians have built beautiful things through the ages, and there are also plenty of examples of decent modernist architecture, from the LA cathedral to Pepperdine's campus. Indulging in campy simulacra does no favors to their church or their marketability.

Both of these considerations make me believe that this community has nothing to do with faith or the church. It's about the same social and cultural issues that are rending American society apart at the seams, along class, racial and geographic lines. As somebody said about.. white flight, the drop-out nimbyistic phenomena of gated communities, and so forth. Nothing religious or values-based here. In fact, St Augustine would probably have termed this town heretical.

Mar 5, 06 5:04 pm  · 
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I agree:
YES! IT IS CALLED MONEY IN THE BANK!

The selling of indulgences to help build the new Vatican Basilica of St. Peter.
Martin Luther protested; read his 95 theses.

YES! IT IS TIME FOR A NEW PROTEST!

Mar 5, 06 5:30 pm  · 
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vado retro

Welcome To VadoLand everybody...

Development Convenants Include:
-Residents must have at least one vehicle up on block at all times...
-Canned beer only...
-Cookers must stay at least twenty feet from Broken Bottle Park
-All dogs must be at least fifty percent Chow breed...
-Cars that go Woooo are not allowed...
-Only flower print sheets are allowed as window treatments...

http://fcit.usf.edu/florida/photos/pics_16/1658.jpg width=418>

Mar 5, 06 6:21 pm  · 
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