They'll probably be more receptive to negotiating your involvement on the project than negotiating money. That's good for both - they don't have to pay you tons, and you get a great experience from it.

I'll try looking for the discussion.

Here ya go. It turned out not to be a very long discussion, though.

http://www.archinect.com/forum/threads.php?id=P16626_0_42_0_C

Thanks rationalist!

yeah, i agree with rationalist especially if the project is on a tight budget. if the project was going to bring tons of money, you would have a bit more leverage, but it sounds like the project might not be that profitable to start with. i'd definately say i wanted to be involved. depending on how well you know the client, you may be able to get them to request you involvement too. good luck

Some type of finder's fee / bonus might be basic stand-up guy operation. However, the road goes both ways: you'd expect to gain something beyond your normal pay scale, but are you willing to assume any financial responsibility or risk? Say the project loses money, or collapses on someone's prize Pomeranian... you seem quite ready to negotiate gains for yourself -- will you be as willing to share in the losses and damages?

Rim Joist - by being more involved on the project than usual, possibly being the primary designer or project architect, lush would inherently assume more responsibility. If the project tanked and the clients sued and it all went to hell, it'd be lush's job on the line.

Some sort of finder's fee/bonus is very typical for this sort of thing.

Thanks for the schooling, but in a negative scenario, Lush's entire job would not likely be financially equal to the liability issues he/she might cause. As I said, a bonus is just good business, but in your discussion of percentages and demands, I'm sensing that perhaps you don't believe that the road should run both ways equally.

I would think that this would be the trade:

lush would be bringing connections and networking, which I'm assumung were no part of the original job description, and thus the potential of a new client. In exchange, a bonus.

The principal(s) of the firm are licensed and would still hold liability for the project, but if the client turns out to be a jackass they are less likely to take lush's recommendations for clients in the future and may question whether they want lush on the team, depending on the severity of the situation. Conversely, if lush is not rewarded for bringing clients to the firm, it probably wont happen again.

Connecting with clients is a crucial part of the big picture, and as we often discuss nobody should work for free.

Okay just because Lush thinks they have a "good Job" in their mind it might be a stinker for the firm. What if its not to the boss's standards or builds on their reputation or just doesn't fit the office. I had a situation recently where a staff member hooked us up with a real project proposal for a townhouse site. The staff member thought the project was just down the road 30 min. from the office and was a townhouse project of some significance. So When I finally speak with the potentail client it 2 4plexes and a couple duplexes, that's an airplane ride and four hr drive away, and the client doesn't know shit about building developing in an area where project control / review would be totally sketchy and the client hasn't know handle on who might be available to build it.

So as much as I appreciate the building of our client base, this project had liability bells ringing all over the place. Thanks, but no thanks.

Regardless I did the same thing many years back with an old boss and thought I was doing the right thing. It still should be encouraged, just approach it in a responsible manner not with your hand out looking for kick backs.

This is still a hypothetical situation- I still have to talk to the client and see where he stands at this point. I understand your point Rim Joist, if I ask for a share of profits, I must be held liable for losses. My main aim here would be to get great experience, a chance to design and to see the whole process of a project- from conceptual design to the finishing touches, including client, consulatant meetings. If I get a healthy bonus out of bringing in a project, it would make me feel good about having taken the initiative and will drive me harder to look for other projects for the firm.

When it comes to the point of logistics, whistler, Im sure that my firm would consider the project from every aspect before it accepts it. As would the client- it has to work for both parties. It is a very interesting project in South East Asia, so the potential of gaining more projects as a result of this one would be very high.

ok, yeah, I guess what we've skipped here is the boss's evaluation of whether or not they want the project. I just took that as a given, sorry for any confusion. Yes, of course, first broach the subject with the hire-ups and see whether it's a project they even WANT before talking about things like compensation. Let it get to a point where all parties are fairly sure it's likely to be a go before talking about what's in it for you.

lush...how long you plan spending with this firm? If your in it for the long haul, bring in the job, do a good job, and one day they might make you an owner. If it is just a jumping stone, well then be a greedy bastard...put two hands out and hope they don't chop them off...cause it is hard to do architecture with no hands.

I'm also in a similiar position with two potential clients ...after approaching the partner that i work with closely I was told that it would be a longshot because we're busy at the moment and because they'd have to basically interview the client to see if it was a project that they wanted to undertake. It wasn't a small project and based on my experience at my previous firm they were easy to work with. i understood that we're busy right now and that they couldn't just take anything that walked into the door.

Forgot to mention that i'm not looking for any compensation and i'm usually the lead on design of my projects and i would expect the same role if only more involved in the proposal and subsequent contracts. My take is that if i was to be compensated that it will be reflected in my salary increases and quarterly bonuses. Also i'm looking to become an associate and this will help me along in that goal.

i advise taking the long view ... if you bring this project in and it is successful, that will be remembered and you'll probably be rewarded on the back end ... if you bring another one in later, that too will be noticed and rewarded ... by doing this sort of thing regularly, you are starting to build a professional reputation that goes beyond just doing architectural work ... you are becoming a "rain maker" and unless your firm is just stupid (and yes, i know such firms do exist) they are not going to ignore the value of your contribution ... proven "rain makers" become partners or "rain makers" leave

remember, we don't do "piece work" ... it's about building a career ... don't focus on individual transactions ... focus on demonstrating proficiency that contributes to the firm's success

is there really an institutional structure in most architecture firms that would compenate someone for bringing in a job, without asking for it?
i know it exists in other professional services (law and financial services come to mind readily) but am leery of an intern being treated with such respect in most cases.
i any event, i agree with snooker's reading.

if I would bring in work, I'd get something and i'm a wee intern. it's a shock to me though.