What's your location? How big is the firm?

location is Boston
Firm is 6, with 2 of us producing the vast majority of work. the other one of us is openly searching out new jobs.....
a high level job captain left and was not replaced 6 months ago, his work has been picked up by two of us, along with everything we were doing while the j.c. was around......

You may want to look at the salary poll

http://www.archinect.com/salary_questionnaire/index.php

My only comment is that EVERYONE thinks that. ..

they are "very dedicated & hard worker"

they are "proficient & very skilled in design & construction documentation: plans, elevations, sections, detailing & problem solving."

they "understand & learn at an extremely fast pace"

and that they are "a very important part of the company."

Not saying that you aren't the above, but you might want to at least be open to the fact that most people are not as good as they think they are. Everybody thinks that they are indespensible and that the firm will not know what to do without them. I know that I did. And when I left to start my own firm, my previous firm did just fine.

Good luck.

tyvek,
what i stated above comes directly from what i have been told by people in power above me, in the office. they were from a progress review that we had not too long ago. i'm getting ready for the review & raise now....i know that i'm not indespensible and i know there are a million other people around that could fill my shoes...i just think a lot of them get paid more.
the attempt here is to figure out what a good number to shoot for is.......its really that simple.....

architecturalchef,
I think you're getting abused, unless you have no BArch degree. I got paid way more than $30K with all the benefits 7 years ago in Pittsburgh. I strongly recommend you to look for a new job. My guess is that if you've been working at that firm like 2+ years, that mean the company offered you very little money; it was hell for me to get a job at that period of time. Market is so much better than two years ago. However, if you don't have BArch or MArch, then I guess that's pretty much what you can get.

Find out what they bill you out for. This should be public info. If you don't want to ask, you could probably find some document on your server that tells you. Divide that number by 2.5. That's how much they can afford to pay you. If they have very little overhead, that could push to as much as x/2. But, you may not be at the top of your pay level yet, so after that it's your call. Maybe x/3 and go from there.

well, looking at the type of projects you are working on, it might be safe to say that you are not working in a 'boutique' firm. That said (though i dont condone a boutique firm paying 30k to their employees), i think you are getting ripped off. 30k means you are working for 14$ per hour, which is way less in a city like boston. I think you should shoot for at least 20$ per hour. There are many firms that will pay that....

30K is a pathetic salary - That's less than what sales people in department stores make. You must be in your mid twenties...STOP wasting your YOUTH and your TIME slaving away in some backwater firm that won't be in existence in five years. DO NOT work for a large firm where you'll be washed away in the next recession.

The twenty-somethings you are meeting now and socializing with now are also a waste of your time. Wan, weak, ipod-listening wannabes with dreams of glory that will never be realized..Seminar sluts sipping bad wine and old cheese pontificating on architects three times their age, if they're not dead already.

Pick up the phone and start calling every brick, fixture, tile, and window distributor you can think of and get a real job where you can make some REAL money. Do that for ten years...THEN you'll have the time and money to play games, plus all the connections you'll need, plus an inside knowledge of construction.

Do you have a lot of wealthy relatives?
A trust fund?
A personality?
Membership in a private club?

If not all of the above, ferget-about-it, honey.

Wait! I should get a job with a materials distributor?

You should be looking for a NEW JOB. How the hell do you live on that salary in Boston?!?!?!?!!!!!! I got more than that there at my first, totatlly shitty job out of school, sheesh. I only stuck around for 3 months before finding a better one (for other reasons than money, although that was part of it).

Get thyself to DakotaCAD staffing and start temping, young man. In the meanwhile shape up that portfolio and head for better pastures.

Garpike,
How OLD are you? You don't have to settle into anything till you're in your early 30's..After that it looks wierd if you haven't found some career path. The thing that S*U*C*K*S about architecture is that just when you are breaking out, in your 20's you're stuck with these pathetically low salaries that do not allow you to travel and enjoy life when you are at your physical peak.

Plus you're stuck having to deal with some of the most pointless jerks you will ever meet in your life. Getting into sales will give you the best experience for running your own office, and will make you some money.

Being a CAD monkey for 25 years will get you nowhere, unless you develop some business and social skill you won't be able to use in an architecture office or in academia.

I am 28.94 yers. Damn I am old.

poiuy - man, you've got lots of rage - lighten up a little, pal !

i was making $45K in tampa with 2.5 - 3 years of experience and an M.Arch...$30K in boston is absolute sh!t...even for an intern straight out of school with no experience...i made $28K straight out of undergrad with no experience in tampa...

Garpike,

Since you're giving your age out decimally, that's a good sign that you have been overly techologicized. Cut out the bicycle design, the hundreds of friends with zippy message board photos, and all other extraneous stimulae that is cluttering up your life and desensitizing you. Get a job selling just one small piece of this vast commercial gestalt we inhabit. Learn your object, and sell it well. Retire rich at 41, hook up with a much younger blonde babe, and set yourself up in Mexico. Only then will you be happy.

Sorry about Bailey, my cat died last year...takes a while to adjust. The next cat will be a great one, too..but somehow it's just never the same.

architecturalchef - while i'm not in the northeast, that's way low, especially if you're not receiving any benefits other than vacation - in our area (south) good solid B.Arch or M.Arch grads with similar experience would be receiving low-to-mid 40s + a full benefits package

$38,000-$40,000

You deserve the 40k, but the fact is that they might find it a bit difficult to give you a 33% raise, and the 40k mark is one of those mental boundaries, so you'll have a much better chance of getting the 38k.

I agree that poiuy has far too much anger, and he's definitely directing it at the wrong people here...

If you have to ask the question you know you aren't getting what you deserve. Plain and simple.

If you are only getting $30K + vacation, your cost to the employer is very little. Actually about $14.42/hr (incl. vacation). What costs employers a lot is the health insurance, life insurance, 401k, profit sharing, etc. Honestly, if you are getting none of those benefits you deserve much much more. Especially in a city like Boston.

Problem is you are asking a question you already know. And I'm sure you'll make the mistake of accepting less than you deserve because you like it there, or you don't want to work in a large firm, or someday I'll run this place. Excuses, excuses.

Archi-chef,

Hey, wait a minute..I didn't catch that..You have to pay for your OWN medical? That's $400+ a month! That means you're only making $25,000? That was my salary when I was your age 20 years ago!!!

pouiy, I like designing bikes. I like hobbies. Without them I am just a guy retiring at 41 with a blonde babe. Not happy, in my books. No offense. To each their own.

Thanks for the kind words about Bailey. No new cats for a while. Bailey was at my parents' house, although he was technically mine. My girlfriend (brunette, not blonde) has a great cat, which for now is enough for me

Now tell me how to rule the materials blue marble... er world!

Where the heck are you living in Bean Town...in a shipping container?

Fricking day labors are making more than you. If your working on medical buildings....You should be breathing FIRE!

Go looking for another job...nothing to loose.

yeah, you probably can't get enough of a raise at this place to make it a respectable salary. dood, i graduated back in 93. at my first job, i was making almost that much and had a helluva lot less responsibility.

I agree that the salary is very low for the region. I think you'd be best off looking for another job.

Where I do have to disagree though is with the assertion that a salary of 30k amounts to an expense to your employer of only $14. 42 per hour. An employee with no benefits still costs an employer approximately 125% of his base salary, just because of the employer's share of taxes, social security, medicaid, unemployment insurance, and workman's comp coverage.
In other words, your employer isn't really paying only your salary to keep you around. He's paying at least $18 per hour. Not that that's much.

Here is the
reality of things.

What does it say about our society that someone who is designing health care facilities is not getting health coverage!!??

... it says NOTHING about our society ... it says a lot about his current employer ... architecturalchef ... move on, man

im totally agreeing with everyone here, architecturalchef seems to be getting BIG TIME SCREWED... i live in chicago, im guessing boston might have a higher cost of living being its east coast, but even so, i have a little over 1 year of experiecne and will be graduating in may... my friends who are in similar situations are getting 36-40k to start. we have barchs but still. if its cheaper to live in chicago, and 36k is still not that great, you need to seriously consider getting a new job, or going back to school to increase your standing. best of luck!

as if you haven't already read this...

get out now!

i am in boston and have the same 2+ years experience as you. you are being (highly) taken advantage of. with that experience, you should be seeking a position of +/- $20./hr - and in a firm that either pays straight hourly wages (in other words, if you work 50 hours a week, you get paid for it), or even better -- overtime.

get on the bsa website (www.architects.org) and head over to the classifieds section. submit some resumes, give your notice, and get the heck out of dodge.

Babs, oh...I didn't mean it that way..I guess I shouldn't have used society in general as an example...Instead...what does is say about archichef's employer...Putting someone in that position designing healthcare, but not having any..Sort of like designing a bakery while you're on a diet!!

Maybe archichef should stay and write a behind-the-scenes article about strange practices in architectural offices..This is so common, so many horror stories.

During the last recession, a friend's wife was working for a firm that, rather than selective layoffs - wanted to lay everyone off, then have them come back and pay them the difference between their old salaries and their unemployment.

Recognizing the fact that this was totally illegal, she wisely chose to FLEE ASAP before the wheels started turning on that plan!

wow, poiuy. crazy story. if you ignore the fact that their scheme was wrong on so many levels, you have to give them credit for creativity.

i'm sure it actually seemed brilliant for a few seconds. hard to believe they told anyone about it, though. a cautionary tale: always think twice before acting on one of your eureka-moments.

architecturalchef - a thought - if you decide you want to work it out where you are, you might want to bring some amo with you to the review interview - print the research provided above by "and/or" - drop by the local AIA office and ask to see the latest salary and benefits survey for Boston - copy that if you can - it may be that your firm is just clueless about what the prevailing wages are in your area - giving them the benefit of the doubt and FACTUAL information may cause them to bring you, and your collegues there in the firm, into line with reality

stranger things have happened

the latest AIA salary survey (2005) provides the following information for 3rd year interns in the Boston metro area:

Mean: $ 44,700
Median: $ 45,600
Range - lower quartile to upper quartile: $ 44,700 to $50,000

Numbers are slightly different in the City of Boston:

Mean: $42,400
Median: 45,600
Range - lower quartile to upper quartile: $ 40,800 to $45,800

don't take my word for it ... follow Ringo's suggestion and see if the BSA can provide you with a copy of the pages for the Boston area.

by the way, for the purposes of this survey, a 3rd year intern is described as follows: Third-year intern: Unlicensed architecture school graduate in third year of internship; develops design or technical solutions under supervision of an architect.

In my experience of three different-sized firms in the last 3 years in Boston, and from what I know of my friends here, that spread is dead on.

Ringo,

I don't think the firm is clueless about what the salaries are..They are just preying on clueless people. This site is just such a great thing in that regard..

One of the saddest things about this field is the rampant employee abuse and underpayment...it's really just a form of hazing. Wish I had a place like this to vent when I was starting out.

Well, what goes around comes around...I see the trouble firms have finding qualified senior people..It's like "Silent Spring" by Rachel Carson...All the big birdies have been killed off by toxic chemicals...

"poiuy" ... man, you just don't know how clueless some design firm ownners can be about practice management matters ... they start out as young architectural graduates, they focus all of their time and effort on becoming licensed architects ... they eventually have their own firms and have no idea whatsoever about what it takes to run a firm in a professional manner ... moreover, they often don't really care to learn, until there's some operational crisis, like all of their employee leaving because they're grossly underpaid

i'm with Ringo ... i'm thinking there's a fair chance they just don't know the compensation scale in their area and they just offer what they think might be fair ... if the candidate accepts, they figure that's what other firms are paying and what the job's worth

lack of information does not necessarily equal intentional abuse ...