Easy there Olaf. We're just responding based on the info given. Anything outside of that is pure speculation. We're presented with a room with a grab bar, and a turning circle. Based on that, we're evaluating the layout as an accessible room.
Curt is correct, in that it may not be a required accessible room. Accessible features might be provided just as a convenience. But since we lack any other information, we have to evaluate what we're given. I wouldn't say they're drafter, design, or intern responses. I'd be happy if those type folks consistently came up with such responses. As it is, I encounter Architects who can't do such things.
And who plumbs a 2x4 stud wall. Make it a 2x6, for everyone's sake.
I love how vocal we all get when an ADA plan issue comes up. What a bunch of geeks we are: I love every one of you for that!
This is an existing condition and the building was built (gut renovation of historic building) in 1994. The sink/toilet/grab bar situation was legal then per 1991 ADA, but the door clearance was not.
This is the ONLY notionally compliant restroom in this building.
As was pointed out on FB, if the door has an automatic actuator it may be OK that it doesn't have clearance? Sine this is an existing condition and moving the AHU would be a huge cost I'm hoping we can just add an actuator. Not that they are cheap, of course.
tintt my first thought was to swing the door in but it intrudes on the turning circle clear floor space too much.
and that is why that should be an ARE drawing question... Donna if you ever get to submit, use that one...... tinnt I drink beer, coke, and red bull, none of yhat healthy crap ;l...sorry just left a job the GC has subsituted every god damn thing, everything is fucking wrong, everything is fucking late, and. not a damn thing i can do about because I said do not hire the guy who is half price of everyone else...but they did and I think he is indeed loosing money but has enough pride to finish (its free adverisement for he and I (although no amount of photoshop can fix this work))....loking forward to the punchlist.
Olaf, The new ARE could have a question where you would label dims on a drawing like that or maybe identify an area that is not correct with what they call hot-spot questions. Sorry to hear about the contractor games.
you can always use the "T" for manuervability which I have used to actually include the space in between the door frame (outswinging door) to make a tight space work.
I'd also hate to be the blind person reading the braille on the restroom sign that has to be located in the corridor in order for it to comply with ADA. I try the first door I come to and it is locked. Then I stand there outside the AHU room trying not to pee my pants thinking the restroom is occupied and that's why the door is locked. Meanwhile, the door to my left that I don't know is there is unlocked and the restroom is vacant.
Then, some kid runs by and pushes the actuator for the door operator and the restroom door hits me as it tries to open.
It would be even more awkward if the restroom were occupied, and the occupant forgot to lock the door. I'd still be blind, so I wouldn't see anything, but the occupant doesn't know that at first. They start yelling at me to close the door ... I'm still trying to figure out what hit me ... the kid took off down the stairs and is laughing the whole way.
all our accessible doors need to be 38" (965mm) wide now. boooooo
According to our intern, they are all 39-7/64" and set at 0.058°. If you use Revit, this should be built into the family and the door is a parallelogram.
Are the pointy ends of the parallelogram at least painted in a contrasting colour?
I'm off to a morning session with my association insurance provider. It's a sort of "let's see who got sued las year" recap. Fingers crossed they mention a certain community theatre in the USA north west.
The best my office can do is send out an office-wide email that mentions we won an award ... usually about a day after the entire office already knows about it from whatever news source the email links to. If you're part of the team that worked on the project you will probably get a lunch out of it as well.
I feel like there's a shift in size around 25 employees or so that these kinds of spur-of-the-moment non-billable events can happen. Bigger than that size the impromptu celebrations get relegated to just one department or team, and then they start to feel like forced camaraderie. Just my opinion.
Is this mic on? Having difficulties figuring out a storefront so I decided to saunter in to say hello to all that I know. Hope everyone's election day is going well. Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
This is an existing condition and the building was built (gut renovation of historic building) in 1994. The sink/toilet/grab bar situation was legal then per 1991 ADA, but the door clearance was not.
That explains it right there. ADA is a civil right (and building elements are a very tiny part of it) and NOT enforced by the building department. ANSI is... and wasn't up to date or remotely coordinated with the ADA like it is now. 1991 UBC most likely was used since there's usually a grace period as the new code is adopted; 1994 was the next issue. So the code didn't have much in there about accessibility.
Oh, and the conflicting door swings are fine. That closet looks like a non-occupied space. Not the best and shaky code wise, but done all the time. It's really a 2'-8" finished access panel.
Oh... in addition.... The '94 was a remodel, so existing conditions would have been grandfathered too and as long as you made a half-arsed attempt to bring it current, it'd fly through the plan review. They were much more 'intent of the code' back then....
I cried harder tonight than I have cried since my dog Chica, my constant companion for five years, died unexpectedly. It's over. The US is over. All of the best parts of us have been overtaken by racism, fear, sexism, and science denial in the service of power.
How do I tell my kid tomorrow morning that it's going to be a president who hates us?
I remember when Reagan was elected... I was just a kid... my dad, a die hard democrat, scared the shit out of me saying we were going to have Nuclear War. I think it's important for parents to protect their children and help them understand that everything is going to be ok... cause if it's not... we're all fucked!
They said Reagan would thrust the country into nuclear war; they say the greek bailout would cause another depression; they said the UK would be in shambles when voting for Brexit; they say Duterte would ruin the Philippines if he came to power...
Clearly they said alot of things.
You know the candidate is a joke when even hollywood enters the fray, as if that made any difference.
I didn't vote for Donald but maybe he can do some good. I'm excited for the future. And I don't think we should tell our kids anything, they have a right to observe things themselves. Interesting how the same people voted for legalized marijuana or medical in a few states.
Thread Central
Then just swing the door in.
Easy there Olaf. We're just responding based on the info given. Anything outside of that is pure speculation. We're presented with a room with a grab bar, and a turning circle. Based on that, we're evaluating the layout as an accessible room.
Curt is correct, in that it may not be a required accessible room. Accessible features might be provided just as a convenience. But since we lack any other information, we have to evaluate what we're given. I wouldn't say they're drafter, design, or intern responses. I'd be happy if those type folks consistently came up with such responses. As it is, I encounter Architects who can't do such things.
And who plumbs a 2x4 stud wall. Make it a 2x6, for everyone's sake.
I love how vocal we all get when an ADA plan issue comes up. What a bunch of geeks we are: I love every one of you for that!
This is an existing condition and the building was built (gut renovation of historic building) in 1994. The sink/toilet/grab bar situation was legal then per 1991 ADA, but the door clearance was not.
This is the ONLY notionally compliant restroom in this building.
As was pointed out on FB, if the door has an automatic actuator it may be OK that it doesn't have clearance? Sine this is an existing condition and moving the AHU would be a huge cost I'm hoping we can just add an actuator. Not that they are cheap, of course.
tintt my first thought was to swing the door in but it intrudes on the turning circle clear floor space too much.
Hugs!
Olaf, go drink your V8 this morning.
Donna, that comment was for Olaf. If it is not required to be ADA as per his assumption, the door could swing in.
I felt compelled to go find an old V8 commercial. Makes me laugh. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yMLBLYKjfxA
all our accessible doors need to be 38" (965mm) wide now. boooooo
NS, That's pretty much all doors, right?
I'd hate to be the person who forgets to lock the door when some kid runs by and pushes the actuator button.
and that is why that should be an ARE drawing question... Donna if you ever get to submit, use that one...... tinnt I drink beer, coke, and red bull, none of yhat healthy crap ;l...sorry just left a job the GC has subsituted every god damn thing, everything is fucking wrong, everything is fucking late, and. not a damn thing i can do about because I said do not hire the guy who is half price of everyone else...but they did and I think he is indeed loosing money but has enough pride to finish (its free adverisement for he and I (although no amount of photoshop can fix this work))....loking forward to the punchlist.
Olaf, The new ARE could have a question where you would label dims on a drawing like that or maybe identify an area that is not correct with what they call hot-spot questions. Sorry to hear about the contractor games.
can't you get around the circle now if you can put the 30"x48" box in there somewhere?
603.2.3 exception 2
you can always use the "T" for manuervability which I have used to actually include the space in between the door frame (outswinging door) to make a tight space work.
Swing it in
Remove closer (if applicable)
Rely on exception 603.2.3
I'd also hate to be the blind person reading the braille on the restroom sign that has to be located in the corridor in order for it to comply with ADA. I try the first door I come to and it is locked. Then I stand there outside the AHU room trying not to pee my pants thinking the restroom is occupied and that's why the door is locked. Meanwhile, the door to my left that I don't know is there is unlocked and the restroom is vacant.
Then, some kid runs by and pushes the actuator for the door operator and the restroom door hits me as it tries to open.
haha EI. love it
It would be even more awkward if the restroom were occupied, and the occupant forgot to lock the door. I'd still be blind, so I wouldn't see anything, but the occupant doesn't know that at first. They start yelling at me to close the door ... I'm still trying to figure out what hit me ... the kid took off down the stairs and is laughing the whole way.
all our accessible doors need to be 38" (965mm) wide now. boooooo
According to our intern, they are all 39-7/64" and set at 0.058°. If you use Revit, this should be built into the family and the door is a parallelogram.
I'm off to a morning session with my association insurance provider. It's a sort of "let's see who got sued las year" recap. Fingers crossed they mention a certain community theatre in the USA north west.
LOL Non Seq at that theater reference!
Champagne celebration in the office the morning after the local AIA awards ceremony. I could get used to this.
You get champagne. I get a tutorial on billing software.
Not quite fair.
Not too shabby, David.
The best my office can do is send out an office-wide email that mentions we won an award ... usually about a day after the entire office already knows about it from whatever news source the email links to. If you're part of the team that worked on the project you will probably get a lunch out of it as well.
How big is your office, David?
I feel like there's a shift in size around 25 employees or so that these kinds of spur-of-the-moment non-billable events can happen. Bigger than that size the impromptu celebrations get relegated to just one department or team, and then they start to feel like forced camaraderie. Just my opinion.
We're about 80 people total, split roughly evenly between Seattle and Portland.
Is this mic on? Having difficulties figuring out a storefront so I decided to saunter in to say hello to all that I know. Hope everyone's election day is going well. Now back to your regularly scheduled program.
But David, FRCH is DESIGN WORLDWIDE! Kind of like Prestige Worldwide, but without the boats n hoes.
This is an existing condition and the building was built (gut renovation of historic building) in 1994. The sink/toilet/grab bar situation was legal then per 1991 ADA, but the door clearance was not.
That explains it right there. ADA is a civil right (and building elements are a very tiny part of it) and NOT enforced by the building department. ANSI is... and wasn't up to date or remotely coordinated with the ADA like it is now. 1991 UBC most likely was used since there's usually a grace period as the new code is adopted; 1994 was the next issue. So the code didn't have much in there about accessibility.
Oh, and the conflicting door swings are fine. That closet looks like a non-occupied space. Not the best and shaky code wise, but done all the time. It's really a 2'-8" finished access panel.
Oh... in addition.... The '94 was a remodel, so existing conditions would have been grandfathered too and as long as you made a half-arsed attempt to bring it current, it'd fly through the plan review. They were much more 'intent of the code' back then....
I'm impressed it was done in cad.
Geeking out enough?
I'm losing it. I'm going to want to hurl myself out a window tomorrow morning. Thankfully I have a kid to keep me hanging in there.
Don't forget to set your calendars back tonight.
so NS, 6 pack and a cigar for the spare room?
WTF is going on...?
^^You are partly responsible if you voted 3rd party.
I cried harder tonight than I have cried since my dog Chica, my constant companion for five years, died unexpectedly. It's over. The US is over. All of the best parts of us have been overtaken by racism, fear, sexism, and science denial in the service of power.
How do I tell my kid tomorrow morning that it's going to be a president who hates us?
No shit... anyone who voted 3rd party might as well not have voted at all... I held my nose and voted for one of these pukes.
^ No it's not. And we don't need any more scare-mongering.
Clearly the people wants change.
I remember when Reagan was elected... I was just a kid... my dad, a die hard democrat, scared the shit out of me saying we were going to have Nuclear War. I think it's important for parents to protect their children and help them understand that everything is going to be ok... cause if it's not... we're all fucked!
Unfortunately, that is wishful thinking, if you think otherwise you are in denial of reality.
They said Reagan would thrust the country into nuclear war; they say the greek bailout would cause another depression; they said the UK would be in shambles when voting for Brexit; they say Duterte would ruin the Philippines if he came to power...
Clearly they said alot of things.
You know the candidate is a joke when even hollywood enters the fray, as if that made any difference.
Bullshit.
I didn't vote for Donald but maybe he can do some good. I'm excited for the future. And I don't think we should tell our kids anything, they have a right to observe things themselves. Interesting how the same people voted for legalized marijuana or medical in a few states.
(puts on teacher hat) Don't give your kids your thoughts, give them your ability to think.
^ ^ Aws shit this day just keeps getting worse and worse!
#Kanye2020
Perfect
Laughter is better.
Now start working on those wall details for the upcoming RFP.
no.
since the Simpson's predicted this, who gets to be Lisa and who gets to be Bart Simpson?
Thehell?
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.