I'm not loving this new young men's fashion trend of wearing ties. they'll wear them with everything - business casual, jeans... We fought hard to NOT have to wear ties all the time - you're screwing it up!
My boss just gave me this cuisine tip: pop popcorn in bacon drippings.
OMG! That sounds amazing! I'm trying to trim down before the AIA Convention, why did he have to mention this delicious-sounding experiment today?!? Has anyone ever tried this?
An anonymous person gets offended by one of my "forum comments" and decides to have 'a' Ms. Thompson call my place of employment talking to the dean and the chairperson saying that I cyberbullied her. Still remaining anonymous. Plotting to hurt my livelihood and employment. The telephone number is registered to a "Well Shale" (only geological info comes up on google name search.) I call Ms. Thompson's (aka Well Shale,) an enthusiastic lady answers saying "good morning, pardon me, good afternoon," I introduce myself stating my name and calmly asking what this is about and she cuts the phone call, I call again and no answer. Then she calls the chairperson back and says I screamed at her... Later I found out, earlier she called Archinect and complained that I called her names in the forum. I get many hate e-mails because of my voice in Archinect, but this one tops it all.
This case is currently reported to campus police and we are waiting further moves from the "cyberbullied."
In the meantime, I continue to post with my real name and have nothing to hide from anyone.
Here is another piece of information about me, an old photo of my dad from 1950 before I was born. He was an ace pilot in TAF, one of the oldest air forces in the world.
Orhan, cool picture. My old man was a grunt in Korea but because of his education got transferred to an Air Force base in Japan to draw plans for landing strips. You could say architecture saved his ass.
(Note: this is in reference to my personal life, not to anyone here on Archinect. Someone I know just profoundly disappointed me and screwed up life for several people I care about. Jerk.)
Sounds like my day yesterday.....April 15 aka Tax Day and I had to go to the dentist just to find out I get to spend another $600.00....Hey but I'm still kicking!
Beaux Arts Ball, U of Arizona, 1987. The theme was Circus Maximus, we went as Pompeii survivors. The U Kentucky school does a really good one every year!
Miles and tintt, your comments on this thread are infuriating. They are not helpful, not generous, not delivered in the spirit of community that Archinect can offer when it's at its best.
Look, Miles, I totally agree (in spirit) with the ten-post minimum rule when it comes to bullshit like "Zaha sucks, agree or disagree?". But when someone says upfront that they are a first time poster and they are asking a straightforward question about education and practice, do not be a dick to them. I mean, what's the point in doing so? It just adds to the general tenor of crappy snark that rules the internet and that makes people afraid to seek actual advice from people who can help.
tintt, the way you used to report the travails around your architecture firm experience were super helpful and smartly-reported and sadly all-too common. That's why it was so valuable. But this dropping a load of horseshit about who actually designs a building on the head of a young person with little to no experience, and NO experience in the US, is useless and mean. Yes, you had a crappy enough experience in architecture to drive you out of the discipline. Most people here didn't or won't.
Please stop, both of you, and ALL OF US old timers here. Take out your frustration here on TC all you want, call me to the mat for snarking inappropriately too - I know I've done it. But when someone posts an earnest and harmless request for help, don't be a dick, Be a dick to me all you want, I can take it because this profession has given me a hard shell. But youngsters who haven't had our collective experience will get it soon enough, they don't need us all being assholes to them yet.
I had a call this morning from a client regarding someone plowing into the side of steel frame brick Veneer addition I did to their building just a little over a year ago. When I say plow....no brake marks...Just put the gas pedal to the floor and smashed it as hard as they could. It was an accident. I was really amazed at the amount of damage to the building. This on will be an interesting insurance claim.
"Go get some life experience before you blindly pick a career."
It's condescending, Miles. She's not blindly doing anything, she's asking for advice. It's like saying "You don't know already? Then why are you asking?" You have LOTS of relevant advice you could deliver to her, the question is will you take time to do it in a generous and helpful way or not? It's harder to be helpful, yes.
No margaritas last night, but I will have some bourbon tonight.
Miles, this forum has become a shrink office for entitled kids whining while playing videogames. if you see the latest posts all are about wat school, how to get famous and rich, but nothing about work. I'm with you on this. If you are so lazy not to talk with someone close to you, don't expect to get a profound answer from a bunch of strangers.
Work related... I'm just about to hit 6 whole months at this job, and still love it. We just issued CD's for the first project I worked on when I got here. In that time I've been involved in multiple CD campaigns, mind numbing work to be sure, but building a good foundation for later. Beats the hell out of working as a roughneck or mechanic...
JLC-1, springtime is when the school threads explode because everyone has their acceptance letters and is trying to make a decision. It's cyclical. No worries. Schumacher will post another FB rant soon then we'll have more architecture to talk about.
just got a thing out the door so i'm going to try to take a minute to respond to my previous noob comment as well as my impression of donna's anti-snark comment
people go into architecture with a false idea of what the profession is. if they get accepted into a university, they often spend the next few years of their lives getting an even more mistaken view of what architects do.
it is in the best interest of the person coming here to understand that the journey they are embarking on isn't really all that creative or artistic. granted there are occasions for creativity that add value to the process, but a significant amount of time is spent on other things. what you see in school is not what you will be doing for a living. you don't get to be rem's apprentice because your mom told you that you're special.
tintt's comment about the design coming from someone other than an architect doesn't seem all that bad to me. miles might be a bit misguided because at the age of 17 or so kids get out of high school and are expected to make a significant decision as to what direction the rest of their life is going to take. talking to a guidance counselor may help, but let's be honest, that could be a dead end. talking to local architects and especially job shadowing would be a great step, but may not always be accessible. a forum like this might be one of the better avenues for a kid to get whatever information they need to make the best choice they can.
having said that, i'll reiterate that i think it's in everyone's best interest to paint an accurate view of what architects do for a living, and that picture just isn't going to be a bunch of fancy watercolor renderings and skyscrapers. the brady bunch did not give an accurate representation of an architects life in the early 21st century. i think we should all be more positive and caring and compassionate and all that (i'd like to be more optimistic at times), but only to a point. telling a kid to follow their dream of being frank lloyd wright or whoever is probably not a nice thing to do.
My comment was not meant as snark but as helpful and from the heart. The OP is clearly in a quandry and struggling to make a decision for what seems to be the wrong reasons - like expectations, which are not a good reason to do anything. Thus getting some life experience - tasting different things - before throwing down on a long and expensive endeavor that you know nothing about.
Maybe I could have spelled it out a bit more but I have a tendency to be terse. Point taken.
miles - OP in that thread is at a community college - they very likely come from a not-so-well-off family - it's a lot harder to get the right kind of "life experience" when you have absolutely no context for what that might be - not all of us grew up in households with working professionals.
Ok, so I went and read the thread. Donna doesn't lay down the law too often. I didn't think Miles mean, but he didn't help, either.
Miles, all you needed to do was elaborate. Think of all those mid-crits where a you hang up your hopes and dreams you've been slaving over for weeks, and the critic just says "that's crap!" They don't say WHY it's crap. You don't know what's wrong, so you don't know how to fix it, and you end up giving up, and starting over.
And I TOTALLY get giving the OP a taste of realism in firm-life, but it should be done with kindness. I'm not saying coddle or lie, just without being flippant or cruel. Otherwise, you risk your words being ignored with a "that won't happen to me, that's just HIS experience."
I don't how some of you long-time members still exist on here. Been using various accounts for a few years now and the crappy questions only get worse each year. It's not that inexperienced or naive or ditsy people are asking for help and being told off--they want to be told they can make it and refuse to listen to anyone that presents a perfectly valid reality of failure and disappointment. The concept of working for something in mind seems to be as theoretical as the concept of money and debt on young person starting out on the wrong end. How do you introduce very basic life skills to a person who cannot grasp them in any capacity?
The internship thing has been dragged through hell and back and again each week, as if simple banter online would change business practices and moral shaming online would intimidate employers. The grad school stuff occupies like 50% of the forum from fall to spring and now with those irritating summer programs, it might as well be year round. The rest is between answer-seeking and ranting, a place not to be if you actually want to escape from reality.
What keeps you all from leaving? Curious question.
snook - it's stories like those that I always shake my head at... can't tell you the number of times a client has VEed bollards/curbs on site work despite being warned of the implications.
As to the "let's be real" thread: I agree with Miles, but feel Donna's concern. I think it's ok to ask the questions - I'm assuming these folks have some idea that the answers they're going to get are biased. You hope these kids are well adjusted and have the street smarts to know who to ask and when, but I can say that I didn't have anybody that I knew of that could tell me if engineering or architecture was the right path (spent close to six figures of tuition to figure it out). Either ignore it if it really bugs you, or point them in directions on how they might get better feedback. I hated my HS guidance counselor... she was clueless, but the poor woman had to advise 400 students so I guess it's more the district's fault.
I like brevity for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the challenge it can present to others. If you don't understand, ask. Getting insulted when you don't understand something is not exactly a sign of intelligence.
Then there's the idea that you don't talk down to people. Spoon feeding is insulting at the very least. If I think that you need every minute detail explained to you essentially means that I think you are an idiot. So I'd rather be terse than verbose, and use that to find out where you are.
Some of the best advice I ever got was don't talk down to your kids, as they are likely far beyond where you think they are.
perhaps the lesson to learn is that we, the old people who don't leave, should do a better job of reading and trying to understand the post. i think donna is right that this person probably deserves a little sympathy. they weren't here for all the other years of saying the same stuff, so they don't have the background or history in that sense. they aren't saying they're better than anyone like some posts imply. it's probably from a good person who is just having trouble with a difficult decision, and it's best if we try to keep them a good person as long as we can.
the reason the same conversation keeps coming up is that a new crop of people have the same questions the people before had. those who say, 'i should be famous,' can get some snark imho. i would throw 'what computer should i get' and all apple fanboi posts in that group too, but i suppose i could see how some would disagree. for those that are sincere, we might as well try to help them. what form 'help' takes obviously varies widely.
who have your accounts been butdoesit? as for why i don't leave, i stay for the rants. every now and then miles gets a good one in. also, it's a community i share a similar background with in a lot of ways, and i think it helps me to learn about the wider world to hear how the rest of you are doing, and how you cope with some of the same situations i find myself in. some threads may even portend future situations i may be able to deal with better after considering things from the perspectives i read here. some of the best threads are the ones i don't post in, because i don't understand them and don't feel i have anything to contribute. sometimes that's what learning looks like.
At press time, Dad thought maybe they should all go out for some ice cream or something.
What did I say in that thread? That buildings are mostly designed by those who pay for them and use them? Did something change and 90% (or is it 95%) of buildings are not designed by architects isn't true anymore? Even the buildings that are designed by architects usually have a concept, an idea and look, to go by given by the client. But in school you spend a lof of time on designing concepts, something you might do in an ideal situation as an architect or if you were the client. Sometimes you even have to design based on a code that says "you shall have a window every 12 feet" or "use these exact light fixtures". Corporations design their own buildings, ever been in an Arby's or a Target? The architects' job is to carry out the designs, which is more construction and management than design. Kids don't know this stuff and school doesn't educate them on it. If I'm wrong, please set me straight. :) I am not interested in misleading or hurting young people any more than I think we should be sheltering them. In school, the professors will tell you that they don't teach to reality because reality shouldn't be that way and how else will we change it but by denying it? Meanwhile, the students suffer. I'm not into that, sorry.
If you want to design buildings, be an owner of a building. If you want to draw blueprints and coordinate building designs on paper, become an architect.
tintt, everything you just posted here is helpful. Those of us in TC don't need that explained; newcomers who are considering a career need that explained. They need detail and context. We can't mistakenly think our experienced shorthand is helpful or useful to people who haven't already been doing this for years.
I'm just seeking some kindness, you guys. Last night I very skeptically watched a movie I ended up loving: Journey to the West, a Steven Chow movie. It tells the story of a young Buddhist monk who tries to hunt and subdue demons with love, rather than with violence as do all the other demon hunters. It's *beautifully* filmed, and both goofy and very moving (both comedy and excellent martial arts). Just be kind. Do everything with love.
I must need my head examined - I would do it all over again - even if I'm not the best architect - nor have I been super well treated by the field. But I can't imagine what else I would do - at least things that would require a college degree. I'd build custom motorcycles in a heartbeat, but when I was searching for a lifeline in college architecture was there and it was the right choice.
I know I've told this story: When I was a freshman in architecture school (1986) I met an architect in Chicago and told him I was in arch school. He immediately asked, very sarcastically, "Why would you want to do that?!?!" and barraged me with stories about what an awful discipline it is.
So let's think, 1986 was almost thirty years ago. So three decades ago there were miserable, cynical architects telling youngsters to stay the hell out of this miserable, cynical field. Yet here I am, and many hundreds of others, still in the field and still loving it every day.
Is it possible that the more things change, the more they stay the same? That there will always be cynical loud complainers in EVERY field who will want to destroy that fresh-faced optimism about a life choice being made by someone younger? Maybe there are divorced people telling the recently engaged that marriage is the worst decision to make, despite the thousands of happy marriages out there too? Or people with rebellious teenagers telling newlyweds to never have children?
I'm ALL FOR telling students NOT to go deeply into debt, and NOT to work for free out of some mistaken belief that that's just the way the profession works. But I won't intentionally kill someone's dreams just because my life isn't exactly as I might have one day imagined it. It might work out ok for them, it might not, but I'm not going to tell anyone to not even TRY.
I dunno, guys... I make decent money (enough to own a house in a relatively expensive part of the country), I get to design things sometimes, I work with awesome people, and I get to ride my bike to work... I don't really need much more than that.
sure - the work can be hard and frustrating at times, but that doesn't mean we need to be shitty to each other while we're doing it. That's the thing that really gets me - just how awful some of the people are in this field - that's really the only reason I'd discourage people from going into the field - there are some real pieces of work in this profession.
I think careers are the same as your personal life and one can feel miserable at both….I was despite my success at both. Think being helpful is a hallmark of my life….my greatest anger in my life has been that nobody told me “how”. The idea in this country that everyone is on their own to figure things out by themselves is senseless…..people seem to want to keep the secrets of their success a secret; nobody really wants anybody else to succeed….you would think that a person with 40+ years of experience would be sought out for their knowledge with endless questions about “how”, but are not….maybe the reason is that when a young person does ask they are often rebuffed.
Dream killing, Donna, really? Don't you think that's a bit hyperbolic?
Anonymous internet advice kept me from being an architect <sob>.
You want advice? Contact me personally and arrange an interview. I will freely give you the highs and lows of my experienceand and vigorously question your motivation and commitment.
There's waaaaay too much hand holding going on. Maybe one of the requirements for posting here should be potty training. A couple of stickies might help.
...feel miserable at both….I was despite my success at both.
if you were feeling miserable, does it really count as a success?
this is why i'm cynical. it's the expectation of what success should be. based on previous posts, carrera is not someone just out of high school trying to figure where they might be able to fit into the world. there's no point explaining what the difference is between his expectation of the profession and what he will really face, but i think we could ask, why would you call it a success if you were miserable?
if you had to do it over again, what would you tell yourself? keep clawing to get more money? would you tell yourself you get more prestige or self-assurance by working until 8 every night? was it worth it if you can feel miserable at both; would you say the highs were worth putting up with the lows?
just to throw in my opinion, i think you should get a fly rod and catch a trout on a dry fly you tied yourself. that's a success that actually feels like success.
Actually speaking of people contacting you personally to arrange an interview, someone reached out to me on LinkedIn asking for this and I'm not sure what to say. To be totally frank, I don't want to accept but feel like I should. I feel like it's what good people do. He wants to talk about moving into graphic design for "the architectural sector" but after seeing his online portfolio, he's just not giving me anything of either substance or style to work with. Am I an asshole if I don't accept this? Do you guys get requests like this, and if so do you let your impression of the questioner's skills affect whether or not you spend time with them?
I should also mention that this is completely out of the blue—we have no friends in common, we are not alumni of the same program, anything like that. This dude has no claim on my attention or time whatsoever, so I suppose I'm also a little taken aback at the entitlement there.
oh also I should mention that Donna, you made me go check out that thread, and unfortunately I cannot recommend architecture for the person who started it. I tried to be kind in explaining why, but I guess I essentially believe that with the state of the profession as it is, you have to really really love it for it to feel worthwhile, and if she's waffling like that now she'll probably not find it a positive experience.
sounds like a sales cold call. i would treat it the same as someone calling about your long distance carrier, or dodge report asking about who won the latest bid.
i'm curious now about mile's request to contact him personally. where do you draw the line between someone deserving asking for help and unwanted solicitation?
Whatever happened to realism? Or, dare I say... rationalism? I'd hope more of us can take each moment as it comes, and not let either persistent cynicism or optimism run our lives.
Thread Central
Think of the lawyer as an economic assassin.
Jaffe's First Law: If you need a lawyer, it's already too late.
Sorry, my mistake. That's Jaffe's Second Law.
was "Thompson" the designer of a project posted here a few months ago by Client? I remember a lot of snarky comments but not the designers name
Love this guy....
Confidence isn't everything but it damn sure is the better part of it.
I'm not loving this new young men's fashion trend of wearing ties. they'll wear them with everything - business casual, jeans... We fought hard to NOT have to wear ties all the time - you're screwing it up!
toast, ties look great! And they can be loose.
My boss just gave me this cuisine tip: pop popcorn in bacon drippings.
OMG! That sounds amazing! I'm trying to trim down before the AIA Convention, why did he have to mention this delicious-sounding experiment today?!? Has anyone ever tried this?
oh no what happened to orhan?
An anonymous person gets offended by one of my "forum comments" and decides to have 'a' Ms. Thompson call my place of employment talking to the dean and the chairperson saying that I cyberbullied her. Still remaining anonymous. Plotting to hurt my livelihood and employment. The telephone number is registered to a "Well Shale" (only geological info comes up on google name search.) I call Ms. Thompson's (aka Well Shale,) an enthusiastic lady answers saying "good morning, pardon me, good afternoon," I introduce myself stating my name and calmly asking what this is about and she cuts the phone call, I call again and no answer. Then she calls the chairperson back and says I screamed at her... Later I found out, earlier she called Archinect and complained that I called her names in the forum. I get many hate e-mails because of my voice in Archinect, but this one tops it all.
This case is currently reported to campus police and we are waiting further moves from the "cyberbullied."
In the meantime, I continue to post with my real name and have nothing to hide from anyone.
Here is another piece of information about me, an old photo of my dad from 1950 before I was born. He was an ace pilot in TAF, one of the oldest air forces in the world.
Btw, that's a P-47D Thunderbolt.
Orhan, cool picture. My old man was a grunt in Korea but because of his education got transferred to an Air Force base in Japan to draw plans for landing strips. You could say architecture saved his ass.
OMG why are some people so awful?!?!
(Note: this is in reference to my personal life, not to anyone here on Archinect. Someone I know just profoundly disappointed me and screwed up life for several people I care about. Jerk.)
i wrestle with that question frequently donna. let us know if you gain any insight.
wtf is wrong with some people - hard to imagine an obvious benefit to anyone for this
Sounds like my day yesterday.....April 15 aka Tax Day and I had to go to the dentist just to find out I get to spend another $600.00....Hey but I'm still kicking!
Beaux Arts Ball, U of Arizona, 1987. The theme was Circus Maximus, we went as Pompeii survivors. The U Kentucky school does a really good one every year!
OK, TC, time for a family meeting:
Miles and tintt, your comments on this thread are infuriating. They are not helpful, not generous, not delivered in the spirit of community that Archinect can offer when it's at its best.
Look, Miles, I totally agree (in spirit) with the ten-post minimum rule when it comes to bullshit like "Zaha sucks, agree or disagree?". But when someone says upfront that they are a first time poster and they are asking a straightforward question about education and practice, do not be a dick to them. I mean, what's the point in doing so? It just adds to the general tenor of crappy snark that rules the internet and that makes people afraid to seek actual advice from people who can help.
tintt, the way you used to report the travails around your architecture firm experience were super helpful and smartly-reported and sadly all-too common. That's why it was so valuable. But this dropping a load of horseshit about who actually designs a building on the head of a young person with little to no experience, and NO experience in the US, is useless and mean. Yes, you had a crappy enough experience in architecture to drive you out of the discipline. Most people here didn't or won't.
Please stop, both of you, and ALL OF US old timers here. Take out your frustration here on TC all you want, call me to the mat for snarking inappropriately too - I know I've done it. But when someone posts an earnest and harmless request for help, don't be a dick, Be a dick to me all you want, I can take it because this profession has given me a hard shell. But youngsters who haven't had our collective experience will get it soon enough, they don't need us all being assholes to them yet.
Donna, suggesting more life experience instead of more schooling to someone clearly at sea with career choices is snarky? Really?
Methinks somebody had too many margaritas last night.
I had a call this morning from a client regarding someone plowing into the side of steel frame brick Veneer addition I did to their building just a little over a year ago. When I say plow....no brake marks...Just put the gas pedal to the floor and smashed it as hard as they could. It was an accident. I was really amazed at the amount of damage to the building. This on will be an interesting insurance claim.
"Go get some life experience before you blindly pick a career."
It's condescending, Miles. She's not blindly doing anything, she's asking for advice. It's like saying "You don't know already? Then why are you asking?" You have LOTS of relevant advice you could deliver to her, the question is will you take time to do it in a generous and helpful way or not? It's harder to be helpful, yes.
No margaritas last night, but I will have some bourbon tonight.
Miles, this forum has become a shrink office for entitled kids whining while playing videogames. if you see the latest posts all are about wat school, how to get famous and rich, but nothing about work. I'm with you on this. If you are so lazy not to talk with someone close to you, don't expect to get a profound answer from a bunch of strangers.
^ Don't forget blossoming sociopaths...
Work related... I'm just about to hit 6 whole months at this job, and still love it. We just issued CD's for the first project I worked on when I got here. In that time I've been involved in multiple CD campaigns, mind numbing work to be sure, but building a good foundation for later. Beats the hell out of working as a roughneck or mechanic...
koz, you kind of sound like a noob
JLC-1, springtime is when the school threads explode because everyone has their acceptance letters and is trying to make a decision. It's cyclical. No worries. Schumacher will post another FB rant soon then we'll have more architecture to talk about.
just got a thing out the door so i'm going to try to take a minute to respond to my previous noob comment as well as my impression of donna's anti-snark comment
people go into architecture with a false idea of what the profession is. if they get accepted into a university, they often spend the next few years of their lives getting an even more mistaken view of what architects do.
it is in the best interest of the person coming here to understand that the journey they are embarking on isn't really all that creative or artistic. granted there are occasions for creativity that add value to the process, but a significant amount of time is spent on other things. what you see in school is not what you will be doing for a living. you don't get to be rem's apprentice because your mom told you that you're special.
tintt's comment about the design coming from someone other than an architect doesn't seem all that bad to me. miles might be a bit misguided because at the age of 17 or so kids get out of high school and are expected to make a significant decision as to what direction the rest of their life is going to take. talking to a guidance counselor may help, but let's be honest, that could be a dead end. talking to local architects and especially job shadowing would be a great step, but may not always be accessible. a forum like this might be one of the better avenues for a kid to get whatever information they need to make the best choice they can.
having said that, i'll reiterate that i think it's in everyone's best interest to paint an accurate view of what architects do for a living, and that picture just isn't going to be a bunch of fancy watercolor renderings and skyscrapers. the brady bunch did not give an accurate representation of an architects life in the early 21st century. i think we should all be more positive and caring and compassionate and all that (i'd like to be more optimistic at times), but only to a point. telling a kid to follow their dream of being frank lloyd wright or whoever is probably not a nice thing to do.
just another $0.02 to add to the pile.
My comment was not meant as snark but as helpful and from the heart. The OP is clearly in a quandry and struggling to make a decision for what seems to be the wrong reasons - like expectations, which are not a good reason to do anything. Thus getting some life experience - tasting different things - before throwing down on a long and expensive endeavor that you know nothing about.
Maybe I could have spelled it out a bit more but I have a tendency to be terse. Point taken.
miles - OP in that thread is at a community college - they very likely come from a not-so-well-off family - it's a lot harder to get the right kind of "life experience" when you have absolutely no context for what that might be - not all of us grew up in households with working professionals.
Miles, all you needed to do was elaborate. Think of all those mid-crits where a you hang up your hopes and dreams you've been slaving over for weeks, and the critic just says "that's crap!" They don't say WHY it's crap. You don't know what's wrong, so you don't know how to fix it, and you end up giving up, and starting over.
And I TOTALLY get giving the OP a taste of realism in firm-life, but it should be done with kindness. I'm not saying coddle or lie, just without being flippant or cruel. Otherwise, you risk your words being ignored with a "that won't happen to me, that's just HIS experience."
I don't how some of you long-time members still exist on here. Been using various accounts for a few years now and the crappy questions only get worse each year. It's not that inexperienced or naive or ditsy people are asking for help and being told off--they want to be told they can make it and refuse to listen to anyone that presents a perfectly valid reality of failure and disappointment. The concept of working for something in mind seems to be as theoretical as the concept of money and debt on young person starting out on the wrong end. How do you introduce very basic life skills to a person who cannot grasp them in any capacity?
The internship thing has been dragged through hell and back and again each week, as if simple banter online would change business practices and moral shaming online would intimidate employers. The grad school stuff occupies like 50% of the forum from fall to spring and now with those irritating summer programs, it might as well be year round. The rest is between answer-seeking and ranting, a place not to be if you actually want to escape from reality.
What keeps you all from leaving? Curious question.
Seriously, Vonnegut says we should just be kind. That's what I want.
snook - it's stories like those that I always shake my head at... can't tell you the number of times a client has VEed bollards/curbs on site work despite being warned of the implications.
As to the "let's be real" thread: I agree with Miles, but feel Donna's concern. I think it's ok to ask the questions - I'm assuming these folks have some idea that the answers they're going to get are biased. You hope these kids are well adjusted and have the street smarts to know who to ask and when, but I can say that I didn't have anybody that I knew of that could tell me if engineering or architecture was the right path (spent close to six figures of tuition to figure it out). Either ignore it if it really bugs you, or point them in directions on how they might get better feedback. I hated my HS guidance counselor... she was clueless, but the poor woman had to advise 400 students so I guess it's more the district's fault.
I like brevity for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the challenge it can present to others. If you don't understand, ask. Getting insulted when you don't understand something is not exactly a sign of intelligence.
Then there's the idea that you don't talk down to people. Spoon feeding is insulting at the very least. If I think that you need every minute detail explained to you essentially means that I think you are an idiot. So I'd rather be terse than verbose, and use that to find out where you are.
Some of the best advice I ever got was don't talk down to your kids, as they are likely far beyond where you think they are.
perhaps the lesson to learn is that we, the old people who don't leave, should do a better job of reading and trying to understand the post. i think donna is right that this person probably deserves a little sympathy. they weren't here for all the other years of saying the same stuff, so they don't have the background or history in that sense. they aren't saying they're better than anyone like some posts imply. it's probably from a good person who is just having trouble with a difficult decision, and it's best if we try to keep them a good person as long as we can.
the reason the same conversation keeps coming up is that a new crop of people have the same questions the people before had. those who say, 'i should be famous,' can get some snark imho. i would throw 'what computer should i get' and all apple fanboi posts in that group too, but i suppose i could see how some would disagree. for those that are sincere, we might as well try to help them. what form 'help' takes obviously varies widely.
who have your accounts been butdoesit? as for why i don't leave, i stay for the rants. every now and then miles gets a good one in. also, it's a community i share a similar background with in a lot of ways, and i think it helps me to learn about the wider world to hear how the rest of you are doing, and how you cope with some of the same situations i find myself in. some threads may even portend future situations i may be able to deal with better after considering things from the perspectives i read here. some of the best threads are the ones i don't post in, because i don't understand them and don't feel i have anything to contribute. sometimes that's what learning looks like.
At press time, Dad thought maybe they should all go out for some ice cream or something.
What did I say in that thread? That buildings are mostly designed by those who pay for them and use them? Did something change and 90% (or is it 95%) of buildings are not designed by architects isn't true anymore? Even the buildings that are designed by architects usually have a concept, an idea and look, to go by given by the client. But in school you spend a lof of time on designing concepts, something you might do in an ideal situation as an architect or if you were the client. Sometimes you even have to design based on a code that says "you shall have a window every 12 feet" or "use these exact light fixtures". Corporations design their own buildings, ever been in an Arby's or a Target? The architects' job is to carry out the designs, which is more construction and management than design. Kids don't know this stuff and school doesn't educate them on it. If I'm wrong, please set me straight. :) I am not interested in misleading or hurting young people any more than I think we should be sheltering them. In school, the professors will tell you that they don't teach to reality because reality shouldn't be that way and how else will we change it but by denying it? Meanwhile, the students suffer. I'm not into that, sorry.
If you want to design buildings, be an owner of a building. If you want to draw blueprints and coordinate building designs on paper, become an architect.
tintt, everything you just posted here is helpful. Those of us in TC don't need that explained; newcomers who are considering a career need that explained. They need detail and context. We can't mistakenly think our experienced shorthand is helpful or useful to people who haven't already been doing this for years.
I'm just seeking some kindness, you guys. Last night I very skeptically watched a movie I ended up loving: Journey to the West, a Steven Chow movie. It tells the story of a young Buddhist monk who tries to hunt and subdue demons with love, rather than with violence as do all the other demon hunters. It's *beautifully* filmed, and both goofy and very moving (both comedy and excellent martial arts). Just be kind. Do everything with love.
Anyone considering a career in architecture should have their head examined.
Which is in a way sometimes what happens when they post here.
I must need my head examined - I would do it all over again - even if I'm not the best architect - nor have I been super well treated by the field. But I can't imagine what else I would do - at least things that would require a college degree. I'd build custom motorcycles in a heartbeat, but when I was searching for a lifeline in college architecture was there and it was the right choice.
I know I've told this story: When I was a freshman in architecture school (1986) I met an architect in Chicago and told him I was in arch school. He immediately asked, very sarcastically, "Why would you want to do that?!?!" and barraged me with stories about what an awful discipline it is.
So let's think, 1986 was almost thirty years ago. So three decades ago there were miserable, cynical architects telling youngsters to stay the hell out of this miserable, cynical field. Yet here I am, and many hundreds of others, still in the field and still loving it every day.
Is it possible that the more things change, the more they stay the same? That there will always be cynical loud complainers in EVERY field who will want to destroy that fresh-faced optimism about a life choice being made by someone younger? Maybe there are divorced people telling the recently engaged that marriage is the worst decision to make, despite the thousands of happy marriages out there too? Or people with rebellious teenagers telling newlyweds to never have children?
I'm ALL FOR telling students NOT to go deeply into debt, and NOT to work for free out of some mistaken belief that that's just the way the profession works. But I won't intentionally kill someone's dreams just because my life isn't exactly as I might have one day imagined it. It might work out ok for them, it might not, but I'm not going to tell anyone to not even TRY.
I dunno, guys... I make decent money (enough to own a house in a relatively expensive part of the country), I get to design things sometimes, I work with awesome people, and I get to ride my bike to work... I don't really need much more than that.
sure - the work can be hard and frustrating at times, but that doesn't mean we need to be shitty to each other while we're doing it. That's the thing that really gets me - just how awful some of the people are in this field - that's really the only reason I'd discourage people from going into the field - there are some real pieces of work in this profession.
I think careers are the same as your personal life and one can feel miserable at both….I was despite my success at both. Think being helpful is a hallmark of my life….my greatest anger in my life has been that nobody told me “how”. The idea in this country that everyone is on their own to figure things out by themselves is senseless…..people seem to want to keep the secrets of their success a secret; nobody really wants anybody else to succeed….you would think that a person with 40+ years of experience would be sought out for their knowledge with endless questions about “how”, but are not….maybe the reason is that when a young person does ask they are often rebuffed.
Dream killing, Donna, really? Don't you think that's a bit hyperbolic?
Anonymous internet advice kept me from being an architect <sob>.
You want advice? Contact me personally and arrange an interview. I will freely give you the highs and lows of my experienceand and vigorously question your motivation and commitment.
There's waaaaay too much hand holding going on. Maybe one of the requirements for posting here should be potty training. A couple of stickies might help.
So you want to be an architect ...
...feel miserable at both….I was despite my success at both.
if you were feeling miserable, does it really count as a success?
this is why i'm cynical. it's the expectation of what success should be. based on previous posts, carrera is not someone just out of high school trying to figure where they might be able to fit into the world. there's no point explaining what the difference is between his expectation of the profession and what he will really face, but i think we could ask, why would you call it a success if you were miserable?
if you had to do it over again, what would you tell yourself? keep clawing to get more money? would you tell yourself you get more prestige or self-assurance by working until 8 every night? was it worth it if you can feel miserable at both; would you say the highs were worth putting up with the lows?
just to throw in my opinion, i think you should get a fly rod and catch a trout on a dry fly you tied yourself. that's a success that actually feels like success.
The power of accurate observation is called cynicism by those who don't have it.
Actually speaking of people contacting you personally to arrange an interview, someone reached out to me on LinkedIn asking for this and I'm not sure what to say. To be totally frank, I don't want to accept but feel like I should. I feel like it's what good people do. He wants to talk about moving into graphic design for "the architectural sector" but after seeing his online portfolio, he's just not giving me anything of either substance or style to work with. Am I an asshole if I don't accept this? Do you guys get requests like this, and if so do you let your impression of the questioner's skills affect whether or not you spend time with them?
I should also mention that this is completely out of the blue—we have no friends in common, we are not alumni of the same program, anything like that. This dude has no claim on my attention or time whatsoever, so I suppose I'm also a little taken aback at the entitlement there.
oh also I should mention that Donna, you made me go check out that thread, and unfortunately I cannot recommend architecture for the person who started it. I tried to be kind in explaining why, but I guess I essentially believe that with the state of the profession as it is, you have to really really love it for it to feel worthwhile, and if she's waffling like that now she'll probably not find it a positive experience.
sounds like a sales cold call. i would treat it the same as someone calling about your long distance carrier, or dodge report asking about who won the latest bid.
i'm curious now about mile's request to contact him personally. where do you draw the line between someone deserving asking for help and unwanted solicitation?
Cynicism is one possible choice among many, Miles, just like optimism is.
Whatever happened to realism? Or, dare I say... rationalism? I'd hope more of us can take each moment as it comes, and not let either persistent cynicism or optimism run our lives.
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.