This is a comment on a local blog from someone who is *apparently* a professor of economics. Its unintentional humor makes me giddy with disbelief; (sic) throughout:
There is a reason, Karen! The IndyGoToTheGulag crowd simply wants to enact their social engineering program on the last bastion of capitalism in our fair city…Meridian Kessler!!1! Keystone was scrapped because it didn’t fit their socialistical agenda! The buses are social welfare and we don’t need takers like THAT in MK……. Its time to take back this city and country from the commies that have kept people like me down!!!1!!
Us "commies" are apparently going in share-the-wealth guns blazing after this white male professional! Look out!!!
Yes, and apparently the Meridian-Kessler neighborhood (adjacent to my neighborhood and where my son goes to school and most of my friends live) is the ONLY truly capitalist neighborhood in our city. Granted it's full of wealthy people who would *never* do "socialistical" things like claim the mortgage interest deduction on their expensive homes or use their connections in the city to get additional speed limit signs and enforcement and get potholes fixed immediately or turn themselves into a historic district with all of the tax implications that come along with that! They're all proud, independent, self-made islands in that neighborhood!
I had a friend this weekend really rail on welfare saying everyone on it "games the system by having babies and never wants to get off it".
Boy did I get pissed. I grew up poor and on government assistance. My mom worked multiple jobs and ended up getting a college degree so that we could get off welfare. And there are a hell of a lot of us that fought through our upbringings to be where we are today - but apparently I'm the very rare exception, and everyone on welfare is scum.
She probably lost a friendship for that comment. Even after I told her this she stuck to what she said.
welfare is idiotic in that we only offer it to people who "need" it, should be available to everybody at the same amounts. Hard to argue that "the poor" are "stealing the rich's money" when everyone gets the same amount.
So kind of like the basic living wage that Sweden or Finland (I forget which one) offers everyone? I kind of like the idea.
My friend was also against universal healthcare and free education, and doesn't believe that by helping everyone up, it benefits everyone (not only that - in theory we can begin to get rid of Welfare, SNAP, etc... with the exception of them being a true emergency social net). Typical "I paid for my own education, why should I pay for anyone else's?" argument. Well, I'm paying for my own education, and am completely ok helping subsidize national free education.
I'm basically of the opinion that the rich already have more "welfare" options than the poor do ... they are just in the form of subsidies, tax breaks, write-offs, loopholes, access, etc. As for giving everyone the same amount ...
Addressing Josh's point, I've seen the people your 'friend' was talking about, and I've seen the people like your mother. Sadly, the people your friend addressed are the ones that stick in my brain. The people like your mother take the assistance, and work to make their lives better, while allowing the assistance to help out. I've seen those folks do well, and I've seen those folks scrape by. They're trying, and I love that they are, but they're not quite as memorable as the other group.
The representatives of the other group (or the one's I've encountered) have actually talked about how they're using the system. A neighbor gladly exclaimed that once she had her next baby, she wouldn't have to work anymore because she'd get more money. I've seen people who have their child fostered by grandparents. The grandparents are getting financial assistance. All the while, the parent is actually living in the home. So, there was never any separation from the parent. They're just getting money out of it. These people are memorable because they flat out boasted about how they were using the system.
I used to do a lot of public housing work. I've seen people capitalize on that system, and I've seen it totally abused. The issue is that there is no good way to screen that.
As with every controversial issue, there are bad apples that spoil the bunch. Look at gun owners. The vast majority have never done anything wrong. But, gun control arguments abound because society focuses on the people who did do something wrong.
^ couldn't the same argument be made regarding Trump and his taxes ... that he is using and capitalizing on that system ... something he claims makes him a smart businessman and better candidate for president?
Why are some of us quick to condemn one and not the other?
The idea that anyone "capitalizes" on public housing? Laughable. I know "capitalizes" means one thing, but the idea of capital, as something a person has in public housing. Cra.
We are not American, we are tribes of stupid, we believe in order for me to succeed, someone has to lose. It sucks.
But, gun control arguments abound because society focuses on the people who did do something wrong
i would like to point at that under no scenario is obama literally going to open your front door, walk into your house, and take your guns away from you. this is not a part of any seriously proposed legislation.
point being, while i agree with what you're saying sen. blutarsky, the bad apples in your gun control analogy aren't just the people misusing firearms, but also those supporting gun rights but doing so through dishonest or manipulative means. if you oppose legislation that would prevent retailers from selling magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, then say so. don't say 'hillary will take your guns away.' that's a lie, and most of us should know that's obviously a lie.
perhaps, to keep things on topic, the comparison is that those opposed to social welfare or safety net programs are not honest with themselves or with others when discussing their opinion, so abuse gets far overstated. i've heard many stories of people using food stamps to buy steak and lobster dinners, but i really don't think that's common.
I know a tea publican who is in jail for not paying taxes for like 50 years. A nice old white guy. I know another proud anti-welfare nice old white guy who got caught stealing money from a family estate. It's smart if they can get away with it, illegal tho. And hard on the reputation. Enough with politics for a bit. I want to know who authorized NCARB's authority and how?
tintt, i believe your state legislatures voted to form your state licensing board (possibly an appointment by the governor; i don't know), and either the board or a vote from your state legislature voted to give ncarb their authority.
I mean, who are the people that write these tests? I'd like to be one of these people. The graphics tests in particular. Has anybody ever tried to turn in a hand drawn sketch instead of doing the software? I think i have a learning disability or something, I don't know.
Which is why complaints of NCARB being a "monopoly" are bullshit. NCARB has a monopoly over architectural registration the same way the FDA has a "monopoly" over regulating Percocet. And I much prefer the option of reciprocity via NCARB over a patchwork of conflicting state regulations.
I don't know who specifically writes the questions for the ARE. I did know a guy in college whose parents owned a test writing company or something along those lines for standardized tests. For extra money he would write math word problems for these tests.
Billy has one red ball, two yellow balls, and one green ball. Susan has one red ball and one yellow ball. How many red balls do Billy and Susan have together?
one ball
two balls
three balls
It seemed easy at first, but when he explained all that goes into it, there is a lot more than one might originally think. The questions had to undergo quite a bit of scrutiny before they could be accepted. It not only had to meet the right level of math testing (first grade, third grade, sixth grade, etc.), but it had to be relatively neutral to inherent bias or something like that for the question and the answers. For example, if Billy and Susan together had combinations of three balls of each color, then the question wouldn't really test the ability of the test taker to distinguish between the types of information in the question. So if both the red balls and yellow balls each added up to three for each color, then the tester could answer the question correctly even though they used the wrong information.
I want to say there was some level of thought put toward institutional bias as well. For example, why does Susan have fewer total balls than Billy? Is it right to have a question on a test that all first graders will take that reinforces gender bias? Billy and Susan could be very Caucasian names. Why isn't Billy named Pedro instead?
My husband is an educational psychologist who has a lot of experience with standardized tests. Thereisa right and wrong way to write them. And not all standardized tests are well done. Many are poorly done. Even the good ones are flawed. Always. That's what I'm saying. I know the ARE questions go through a procedure, but what procedure and is it a qualified procedure or is a bunch of architects with no such understanding of testing making up test questions for extra money?
I want to submit a sketch. Edit: I'll be ok. Just wanted to complain. Sorry. Argh. And I would like to be on this committee that writes the test. If anybody knows how to get on that committee, please dish.
The graphics vignette is really what I'm talking about -- it would pass no such scrutiny in regards to seeing if it tests what it claims to test. It tests your ability to learn their software. Which I finally did. After the 10th try. I give NCARB a fail. Does it take 10 times to learn the software? Maybe I'm being too hard on myself.
i'm pretty sure there are forum members here who have been involved as one of the practice test takers. maybe quizzical or someone like that.
the ncarb software handles institutional bias by being universally horrible. it's so bad, that someone with experience with autocad v. revit v. microstation etc. would not have an advantage. you'd have to be pretty screwed up to have any sort of 'intuition' geared towards their software, assuming it's the same as when i took it.
hand sketches wouldn't work because there is some sort of automated system for grading.
Now that I think about it, I briefly worked with a guy who wrote test questions...So if they don't want to give anyone an advantage why not make it pencil and paper? Oh right, to give NCARB the advantage (of not having to score them). Thanks, curt.
Your husband vs. a guy I knew who worked for his parents for extra cash in college ... you win. You probably know a lot more about it than I ever would.
Your complaints about the vignette are exactly why NCARB got rid of them in version 5.0.
EI, and I worked for my husband for 6 years. I think I should apply to help. Did NCARB really admit that the vignettes didn't really test anything?
I do prefer the 5.0 format. I'm doing the loophole so will do some of each. I've spent more time practicing the vignette than I have on the MC for this one...so frustrating.
If NCARB is going to have authority over a professional licensing exam, they should be a little more diligent with their testing. It is their MAIN job and if they aren't doing it, what are they doing? Shouldn't whoever authorizes them take away their authority? I think that is probably what people mean when they say it is a monopoly. Self appointed experts in testing.
NCARB, ARE, practically nothing to do with real life practice other than the "philosophy". the philosophy is "pretend you are a lawyer but you are not and pretend like you can never ASSume anything beyond the literal." tinnt if you take the test that way it will al make sense.
on the whole welfare thing - if you cannot take care of yourself find someone who can. if you cannot subsist on your own labor in an economy that provides opportunity find someone who can. but sure as hell do not ask a stranger to take a cut on their paycheck to support your ass. if the economy sucks, then those who could should finance the economy - read: spend money. if not, the class that will only work for subsistence may cut your head off like a King of France.
It's just the software that I struggle with. I know not to assume. The questions are tricky but I'm passing those parts ok. Everyone can wish me luck tomorrow, taking the 3rd test in a month in an attempt to blast thru it.
the software is really written the same way. like any rational CAD user would expect a command to do this and that, well the software does not. the solution on the vignette is the least clean solution. which portion?
olaf, the ARE, as you well know, needs to be broad in scope, or else we'd have something like the Bar; every state, with their own test. my state has only gotten around to 2012, with modifications for the state, but i suspect nj is on to 2015, with modifications.
NJ is indeed. They've really sped up their adoption process also. 2015 went into affect in march of 2016. It seemed like it was a 3 year lag in the past
"Did NCARB really admit that the vignettes didn't really test anything?"
Not really. You can't find anything out there that would state this, as it would be pretty stupid for NCARB to admit that a big portion of the ARE wasn't really testing anything. However, I have spoken with Jared Zurn, NCARB’s director of Examination, personally about the vignettes. Among other things, he said that part of the reason they were eliminating the vignettes is that they found that candidates were spending a lot of effort learning how to use the software. Your complaint about the vignettes testing a candidate's ability to learn the software is spot on.
No, I don't think it would be accurate to say that the vignettes didn't really test anything as I think they do, but sometimes that gets lost in the stress of figuring out the stupid software. Yes, I do believe that NCARB is acknowledging that the vignettes tested candidates on their ability to learn the software.
Just came across this project my alma mater did in partnership with the US forest Service, great to see some of the design-build action finally taking place there. Looks like they still won't let students design ANYTHING that would be built on campus. Cool project nonetheless.
^ Nice! Where is that located? I'd give my left nut to design some kind of pavilion or visitor center somewhere up in the mountains of the Pacific Northwest.
I highly recommend taking a trip out to eastern WA and N. Idaho just about any time of year. Of course in the winter you'll have to be prepared to take on some challenging conditions, but from May to October things are pretty mild. Sandpoint is also home to one of the deepest lakes in the US, and a pretty decent ski resort in the winter.
Cool... I drove through the Idaho panhandle and eastern Washington in a Penske rental truck on my way to Seattle six months ago, but I wasn't in a position to do any sightseeing. One of these days I'll get back out that way.
I overstudied... All is good. I went to schedule my next exam and there are only 2 open spots between two testing centers between now and Christmas. Dang!
Thread Central
Wasn't there a thread somewhere for cool architecture firm names? Here's one: Love Schack. And they actually have some decent-looking projects.
This is a comment on a local blog from someone who is *apparently* a professor of economics. Its unintentional humor makes me giddy with disbelief; (sic) throughout:
There is a reason, Karen! The IndyGoToTheGulag crowd simply wants to enact their social engineering program on the last bastion of capitalism in our fair city…Meridian Kessler!!1! Keystone was scrapped because it didn’t fit their socialistical agenda! The buses are social welfare and we don’t need takers like THAT in MK……. Its time to take back this city and country from the commies that have kept people like me down!!!1!!
Us "commies" are apparently going in share-the-wealth guns blazing after this white male professional! Look out!!!
Hahahahahaha. Jeez.
So public transportation is jack-full of evil commie cooties?
I'm just going to guess said person is well over 70 with a million dollar plus house, and loves the smell of their own farts.
Yes, and apparently the Meridian-Kessler neighborhood (adjacent to my neighborhood and where my son goes to school and most of my friends live) is the ONLY truly capitalist neighborhood in our city. Granted it's full of wealthy people who would *never* do "socialistical" things like claim the mortgage interest deduction on their expensive homes or use their connections in the city to get additional speed limit signs and enforcement and get potholes fixed immediately or turn themselves into a historic district with all of the tax implications that come along with that! They're all proud, independent, self-made islands in that neighborhood!
I had a friend this weekend really rail on welfare saying everyone on it "games the system by having babies and never wants to get off it".
Boy did I get pissed. I grew up poor and on government assistance. My mom worked multiple jobs and ended up getting a college degree so that we could get off welfare. And there are a hell of a lot of us that fought through our upbringings to be where we are today - but apparently I'm the very rare exception, and everyone on welfare is scum.
She probably lost a friendship for that comment. Even after I told her this she stuck to what she said.
welfare is idiotic in that we only offer it to people who "need" it, should be available to everybody at the same amounts. Hard to argue that "the poor" are "stealing the rich's money" when everyone gets the same amount.
So kind of like the basic living wage that Sweden or Finland (I forget which one) offers everyone? I kind of like the idea.
My friend was also against universal healthcare and free education, and doesn't believe that by helping everyone up, it benefits everyone (not only that - in theory we can begin to get rid of Welfare, SNAP, etc... with the exception of them being a true emergency social net). Typical "I paid for my own education, why should I pay for anyone else's?" argument. Well, I'm paying for my own education, and am completely ok helping subsidize national free education.
I'm basically of the opinion that the rich already have more "welfare" options than the poor do ... they are just in the form of subsidies, tax breaks, write-offs, loopholes, access, etc. As for giving everyone the same amount ...
There is also this one ...
Addressing Josh's point, I've seen the people your 'friend' was talking about, and I've seen the people like your mother. Sadly, the people your friend addressed are the ones that stick in my brain. The people like your mother take the assistance, and work to make their lives better, while allowing the assistance to help out. I've seen those folks do well, and I've seen those folks scrape by. They're trying, and I love that they are, but they're not quite as memorable as the other group.
The representatives of the other group (or the one's I've encountered) have actually talked about how they're using the system. A neighbor gladly exclaimed that once she had her next baby, she wouldn't have to work anymore because she'd get more money. I've seen people who have their child fostered by grandparents. The grandparents are getting financial assistance. All the while, the parent is actually living in the home. So, there was never any separation from the parent. They're just getting money out of it. These people are memorable because they flat out boasted about how they were using the system.
I used to do a lot of public housing work. I've seen people capitalize on that system, and I've seen it totally abused. The issue is that there is no good way to screen that.
As with every controversial issue, there are bad apples that spoil the bunch. Look at gun owners. The vast majority have never done anything wrong. But, gun control arguments abound because society focuses on the people who did do something wrong.
^ couldn't the same argument be made regarding Trump and his taxes ... that he is using and capitalizing on that system ... something he claims makes him a smart businessman and better candidate for president?
Why are some of us quick to condemn one and not the other?
We are not American, we are tribes of stupid, we believe in order for me to succeed, someone has to lose. It sucks.
But, gun control arguments abound because society focuses on the people who did do something wrong
i would like to point at that under no scenario is obama literally going to open your front door, walk into your house, and take your guns away from you. this is not a part of any seriously proposed legislation.
point being, while i agree with what you're saying sen. blutarsky, the bad apples in your gun control analogy aren't just the people misusing firearms, but also those supporting gun rights but doing so through dishonest or manipulative means. if you oppose legislation that would prevent retailers from selling magazines that hold more than 10 rounds, then say so. don't say 'hillary will take your guns away.' that's a lie, and most of us should know that's obviously a lie.
perhaps, to keep things on topic, the comparison is that those opposed to social welfare or safety net programs are not honest with themselves or with others when discussing their opinion, so abuse gets far overstated. i've heard many stories of people using food stamps to buy steak and lobster dinners, but i really don't think that's common.
I know a tea publican who is in jail for not paying taxes for like 50 years. A nice old white guy. I know another proud anti-welfare nice old white guy who got caught stealing money from a family estate. It's smart if they can get away with it, illegal tho. And hard on the reputation. Enough with politics for a bit. I want to know who authorized NCARB's authority and how?
tintt, i believe your state legislatures voted to form your state licensing board (possibly an appointment by the governor; i don't know), and either the board or a vote from your state legislature voted to give ncarb their authority.
He who shall not be named could actually elaborate on how it was formed etc., but otherwise, I'm going along with what curtkram said.
Interestingly, the members of NCARB are the 54 registration boards and that's who NCARB represents.
I mean, who are the people that write these tests? I'd like to be one of these people. The graphics tests in particular. Has anybody ever tried to turn in a hand drawn sketch instead of doing the software? I think i have a learning disability or something, I don't know.
Which is why complaints of NCARB being a "monopoly" are bullshit. NCARB has a monopoly over architectural registration the same way the FDA has a "monopoly" over regulating Percocet. And I much prefer the option of reciprocity via NCARB over a patchwork of conflicting state regulations.
What if Balkins was secretly trolling us all and writes questions for the ARE? Given some of the inane questions I had....
What if Balkins is the reincarnation of FLW, sent here to troll us. Wright didn't have an Architecture degree either.
Coincidence? I think not.
I don't know who specifically writes the questions for the ARE. I did know a guy in college whose parents owned a test writing company or something along those lines for standardized tests. For extra money he would write math word problems for these tests.
Billy has one red ball, two yellow balls, and one green ball. Susan has one red ball and one yellow ball. How many red balls do Billy and Susan have together?
It seemed easy at first, but when he explained all that goes into it, there is a lot more than one might originally think. The questions had to undergo quite a bit of scrutiny before they could be accepted. It not only had to meet the right level of math testing (first grade, third grade, sixth grade, etc.), but it had to be relatively neutral to inherent bias or something like that for the question and the answers. For example, if Billy and Susan together had combinations of three balls of each color, then the question wouldn't really test the ability of the test taker to distinguish between the types of information in the question. So if both the red balls and yellow balls each added up to three for each color, then the tester could answer the question correctly even though they used the wrong information.
I want to say there was some level of thought put toward institutional bias as well. For example, why does Susan have fewer total balls than Billy? Is it right to have a question on a test that all first graders will take that reinforces gender bias? Billy and Susan could be very Caucasian names. Why isn't Billy named Pedro instead?
My husband is an educational psychologist who has a lot of experience with standardized tests. There is a right and wrong way to write them. And not all standardized tests are well done. Many are poorly done. Even the good ones are flawed. Always. That's what I'm saying. I know the ARE questions go through a procedure, but what procedure and is it a qualified procedure or is a bunch of architects with no such understanding of testing making up test questions for extra money?
I want to submit a sketch. Edit: I'll be ok. Just wanted to complain. Sorry. Argh. And I would like to be on this committee that writes the test. If anybody knows how to get on that committee, please dish.
The graphics vignette is really what I'm talking about -- it would pass no such scrutiny in regards to seeing if it tests what it claims to test. It tests your ability to learn their software. Which I finally did. After the 10th try. I give NCARB a fail. Does it take 10 times to learn the software? Maybe I'm being too hard on myself.
At least Billy didn't have blue balls.
I'll show myself out.
i'm pretty sure there are forum members here who have been involved as one of the practice test takers. maybe quizzical or someone like that.
the ncarb software handles institutional bias by being universally horrible. it's so bad, that someone with experience with autocad v. revit v. microstation etc. would not have an advantage. you'd have to be pretty screwed up to have any sort of 'intuition' geared towards their software, assuming it's the same as when i took it.
hand sketches wouldn't work because there is some sort of automated system for grading.
Now that I think about it, I briefly worked with a guy who wrote test questions...So if they don't want to give anyone an advantage why not make it pencil and paper? Oh right, to give NCARB the advantage (of not having to score them). Thanks, curt.
Your husband vs. a guy I knew who worked for his parents for extra cash in college ... you win. You probably know a lot more about it than I ever would.
Your complaints about the vignette are exactly why NCARB got rid of them in version 5.0.
*it was a drinking night...*
EI, and I worked for my husband for 6 years. I think I should apply to help. Did NCARB really admit that the vignettes didn't really test anything?
I do prefer the 5.0 format. I'm doing the loophole so will do some of each. I've spent more time practicing the vignette than I have on the MC for this one...so frustrating.
If NCARB is going to have authority over a professional licensing exam, they should be a little more diligent with their testing. It is their MAIN job and if they aren't doing it, what are they doing? Shouldn't whoever authorizes them take away their authority? I think that is probably what people mean when they say it is a monopoly. Self appointed experts in testing.
NCARB, ARE, practically nothing to do with real life practice other than the "philosophy". the philosophy is "pretend you are a lawyer but you are not and pretend like you can never ASSume anything beyond the literal." tinnt if you take the test that way it will al make sense.
on the whole welfare thing - if you cannot take care of yourself find someone who can. if you cannot subsist on your own labor in an economy that provides opportunity find someone who can. but sure as hell do not ask a stranger to take a cut on their paycheck to support your ass. if the economy sucks, then those who could should finance the economy - read: spend money. if not, the class that will only work for subsistence may cut your head off like a King of France.
It's just the software that I struggle with. I know not to assume. The questions are tricky but I'm passing those parts ok. Everyone can wish me luck tomorrow, taking the 3rd test in a month in an attempt to blast thru it.
the software is really written the same way. like any rational CAD user would expect a command to do this and that, well the software does not. the solution on the vignette is the least clean solution. which portion?
do not ask a stranger to take a cut on their paycheck
I said something similar some months ago and some jackwagon pitched a fit.
jackwagon and donuts to dollars.
i'm on a roll....
olaf, the ARE, as you well know, needs to be broad in scope, or else we'd have something like the Bar; every state, with their own test. my state has only gotten around to 2012, with modifications for the state, but i suspect nj is on to 2015, with modifications.
NJ is indeed. They've really sped up their adoption process also. 2015 went into affect in march of 2016. It seemed like it was a 3 year lag in the past
"Did NCARB really admit that the vignettes didn't really test anything?"
Not really. You can't find anything out there that would state this, as it would be pretty stupid for NCARB to admit that a big portion of the ARE wasn't really testing anything. However, I have spoken with Jared Zurn, NCARB’s director of Examination, personally about the vignettes. Among other things, he said that part of the reason they were eliminating the vignettes is that they found that candidates were spending a lot of effort learning how to use the software. Your complaint about the vignettes testing a candidate's ability to learn the software is spot on.
No, I don't think it would be accurate to say that the vignettes didn't really test anything as I think they do, but sometimes that gets lost in the stress of figuring out the stupid software. Yes, I do believe that NCARB is acknowledging that the vignettes tested candidates on their ability to learn the software.
So, I haven't looked at it because I passed the ARE but, are you telling me there are NO vignettes on 5.0?
No vignettes in 5.0 but the questions have more graphics in them, like drag and drop in parts of a wall section type Q's.
Just came across this project my alma mater did in partnership with the US forest Service, great to see some of the design-build action finally taking place there. Looks like they still won't let students design ANYTHING that would be built on campus. Cool project nonetheless
.
^ Nice! Where is that located? I'd give my left nut to design some kind of pavilion or visitor center somewhere up in the mountains of the Pacific Northwest.
It's near Sandpoint, ID.
Here's the USFS press release with directions if you're so inclined...
Moose Creek Warming Hut Dedication Ceremony
I highly recommend taking a trip out to eastern WA and N. Idaho just about any time of year. Of course in the winter you'll have to be prepared to take on some challenging conditions, but from May to October things are pretty mild. Sandpoint is also home to one of the deepest lakes in the US, and a pretty decent ski resort in the winter.
Cool... I drove through the Idaho panhandle and eastern Washington in a Penske rental truck on my way to Seattle six months ago, but I wasn't in a position to do any sightseeing. One of these days I'll get back out that way.
I overstudied... All is good. I went to schedule my next exam and there are only 2 open spots between two testing centers between now and Christmas. Dang!
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